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  • What do you know/think about KB 2952664?

    Home Forums AskWoody blog What do you know/think about KB 2952664?

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    This topic contains 75 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by  James Bond 007 3 months, 3 weeks ago.

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    • #31805 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      We know KB 2952664 snoops – and we’ve known that for more than a year. Microsoft re-released it as a standalone patch today – Optional, Recommended. D
      [See the full post at: What do you know/think about KB 2952664?]

    • #31806 Reply

      James Bond 007
      AskWoody Lounger

      I have no evidence either way. I believe we have good reason to be suspicious of it.

      If the “new” KB2952664 is nothing like the old one and is actually beneficial, it will be a welcome surprise.

      I certainly don’t believe Microsoft will do anything like that, though. I will continue to avoid it whenever possible.

      Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

    • #31807 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      “This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program. The diagnostics evaluate compatibility on the Windows ecosystem and help Microsoft to ensure application and device compatibility for all updates to Windows.”

      It says “for those who participate” in CEIP.
      I know that during the GWX campaign KB2952664 altered tasks in the TaskScheduler under Application Experience” and I think also under “Customer Experience Improvement Program” in spite of the fact that all the computers were opted-out of CEIP.

      So the description is not valid.

    • #31808 Reply

      Brian

      @ Woody It is still MS’s snooper patch. Beware!!! II hid it twice this month and three or four times this summer.

    • #31809 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Yep. But is that, in and of itself, good reason to avoid the patch?

      Hint: I think so. But I’d sure like to get some firepower on my side.

    • #31810 Reply

      Jay

      From what they say it’s no longer GWX connected. But it seems to be a purely CEIP related update. If we have opted out of CEIP feedback, we surely still won’t need it?

    • #31811 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      It seems to bypass the CEIP setting, even though the KB article pays CEIP some lipservice.

    • #31812 Reply

      Vols and Jezuz

      By firepower, do you mean things that bypassing the CEIP opt-out could affect or break, other than your privacy?

      If so, then I’ve never heard of Telemetry itself causing any widespread problems with other programs or code, though it very well may.

      Performance wise, there is a definite but small impact from Telemetry routines, like the logging from the Task Scheduler tasks. The only way I’ve found to quantify this myself is with graphs of my mouse’s polling interval @ 1000Hz polling rate. With Telemetry and associated tasks/logs running, there is a definite increase in the noise in general, in addition to larger spikes at regular intervals. We’re still talking about differences of <100us in general here, but it can potentially affect how your aim 'feels' in a game where super precise and accurate aim is require (like Counter-Strike). USB polling is the only way I've been able to quantify Telemetry's impact because it is so small that any differences in things like frames per second in a game wouldn't be statistically significant, while USB polling's microsecond sensitivity shows it clearly.

      Or maybe by firepower you just meant you wanted some good logic and arguments to help make the case that the CEIP override is a valid enough reason to issue a general avoid recommendation for 2952664…?

    • #31813 Reply

      zero2dash
      AskWoody Lounger

      IMHO anything related to trusting MS in the post-GWX world is not worth risking. I don’t participate in CEIP but I’m not installing 2952664, ever.

    • #31814 Reply

      samak

      1. We opt out of CEIP and the update still gets offered.
      2. It seems to bypass the CEIP setting.

      After the GWX debacle. does anyone seriously think this behavior is benign?

    • #31815 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      abbodi86 did some research and pointed that KB2952664 is the only update which does not comply with the CEIP settings. The other indication that it may not quite be a regular patch is that it is not offered to Windows 2008 R2 Server like most similar patches. It is offered to Windows 7 Enterprise as Recommended and checked on Windows Update and it is offered in WSUS, unlike the Windows 10 specific patch KB3035583, which was never in WSUS and never offered to the Enteprise version, as this version cannot be upgraded in place according to the licensing terms, at least not from Windows Update.
      Another one in the same league and not offered to Windows 2008 R2 is KB3021917. This one seems to be offered as unchecked to Windows 7 Enterprise in WU, like KB971033.
      Nothing is new, we discussed it few times before, but it is good to have it as reference.
      Most of the information above is covered here too http://www.infoworld.com/article/3128983/microsoft-windows/how-to-prepare-for-the-windows-781-patchocalypse.html
      The fact is that those patches seem to do nothing useful at least for most end-users. How much they contribute to the amount of telemetry is relatively difficult to confirm.
      Probably that traffic can be blocked with firewalls and Noel did a lot of good research about this issue and presented the results a while ago, or by disabling the scheduled tasks mentioned many times here by @pkcano who did valuable research in that area.

    • #31816 Reply

      Thérèse

      hihi, I installed KB2952664 3 days ago, and surprise, it’s in optional update again. What the heck is going on MS???

    • #31817 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      KB2952664 is also closely related to https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/upgrade-analytics
      which essentially means that the same data which is normally collected by Microsoft can be collected in the enterprise for the purpose of assessing the suitability to upgrade the enterprise systems to Windows 10.

    • #31818 Reply

      Iggy

      Ten plus year appreciative reader, first time commenter. Wondering what you folks think of this development per Krebs: “Starting this month, home and business Windows users will no longer be able to pick and choose which updates to install and which to leave for another time. For example, I’ve often advised home users to hold off on installing ….” krebsonsecurity dot com 11oct16

      I have Win7 and have always waited to install patches for at least 30 days, longer or not at all when advised; Fire/Waterfox.

      Need a new desktop to cable shave but new machines loaded with Win7 are becoming harder to find. Hope to hear Woody’s opinion on this new wrinkle. Thanks y’all.

    • #31819 Reply

      poohsticks

      If the contents of this current patch are so different from the prior incarnation of 2952664, why release this now under the same number as that notorious, sometimes-destructive patch which so many customers learned to view with suspicion and to avoid at all costs (even downloading third party programs to help them do so)?

      As a non-techie, I wonder —
      They control the kb numbers, they can repackage something so easily – so why not introduce whatever different, ‘benign’ stuff that this current patch does as a new thing, as a new kb number altogether?

      It seems sensible to be suspicious of it, a patch with the same number, with incomplete descriptions.

      Given their past record, it also seems sensible to be cautious about accepting any of their claims of innocence and non-harm at face value until they undergo the test of time.

      My response to MS, due to their own wilful behavior in the last 2 years, has gone from
      “generally trust from the start” to
      “trust, but verify” to
      “verify, then trust” to
      “verify and verify again, then only do things that can be undone unless you are absolutely sure it’s okay”.

    • #31820 Reply

      lizzytish
      AskWoody Lounger

      Well if that is the case and it bypasses the CEIP settings…… it’s enough for me to not want to install it. Although on face value……. what MS have stated that this particular patch is not related to any GWX ‘moves’ shows at least a bit more transparency to things…… although not complete or absolute perhaps……. but a start.. maybe!!!!
      A big ‘MAYBE’….. Would be nice tho’ if we didn’t have to bother ourselves with all the ms/speak! LT

    • #31821 Reply

      fp
      AskWoody Lounger

      Good enuf reason to avoid it.

    • #31822 Reply

      Bill C.
      AskWoody Lounger

      I found it slowed down my i7 machine with lots of disk assesses. It would bring a game down below 30 FPS.

      I was NOT in CEIP, but when I checked it in tasks, I saw it was sending reports. I disabled that task and uninstalled the patch after I learned about GWX, and since, no reports have been sent or slowdowns.

    • #31823 Reply

      mer

      No info either way, but it’s almost looking like:
      Take a snapshot of the system prior to installing
      Install update
      Take snapshot of the system after installing.
      Diff the 2 snapshots and try to figure out what the changes are.

      Basically try to reverse engineer it because there’s little to no chance anyone will get a truthful answer from MS.

    • #31824 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      I think they update KB2952664 in a similar fashion with the definition updates for antivirus products or for MSRT.
      In the case of KB2952664 which checks for application compatibility and sends data back to Microsoft, when new compatibility data is available, Microsoft updates the patch.
      I don’t have any information or documentation supporting my assumption, but this is the closest which I can get to explain why this patch was re-released so many times.

    • #31825 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      The point is, what MS “says” is just side-stepping the truth. We have found, from the GWX campaign, that MS can put whatever they like on User’s machines (home OR business not on Enterprise) without permission and is not beyond subterfuge and trickery to achieve their goals.

      In many cases, MS tries to pull the wool over the public eye with some fancy corporate-speak side-stepping, or just omits information entirely. Here we have to filter what is presented.

      But in a case where MS overtly says “it snoops” in the same mouthful as the obviously untruth “for CEIP opt-ins,” it’s time to avoid the patch.

    • #31826 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      +1

    • #31827 Reply

      SamH

      From my own testing, I learned that KB2952664 is responsible for a service named CompatTelRunner.exe that runs during machine startup, which can be frequent for laptop users. There are pleny of webpages discussing CompatTelRunner, but what I noticed was that it was a real drain on the system while it ran, and it ran for an annoyingly long time. It is interesting that KB2952664 is separate from the quality rollups; is CompatTelRunner disabled as long as I don’t install KB2952664, or would it run anyway due to something else in the rollup?

    • #31828 Reply

      dc

      Running W7 Home. KB2952664 comes bundled with EnableTask.exe. A search for that program resulted in
      https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/all/kb2952664-25kb-installs-but-still-asks-to-install/17cd1a68-479a-4016-8b77-e5bfceea91f9 which is from July 2015 but very interesting. It documents that a registry key is checked ans a task is started. Unfortunately it does not indicate what happens when/if CEIP tasks are disabled.

      Bottom line – don’t trust them.

    • #31829 Reply

      Xircal

      It’s big brother KB2976798 appeared as an Optional update in my 8.1 WU list today which I promptly hid.

      But I thought we were past that crap when the W10 offer expired.

      The security only patches at http://catalog.update.microsoft.com/v7/site/Rss.aspx?q=KB3192392 ran smoothly though I’m pleased to say and downloading it took less than a second even though it’s a 76MB file.

      The others I installed were the security update for NET 3.5 and the usual Flash and MSRT updates.

      No problems with any of them so far.

    • #31830 Reply

      answerwoody

      Dear woody and others.
      The KB2952664 include functions which may result in communication other than the ones defined by the Customer Experience Improvement Program.

      To disable this communication, run gpedit.msc then navigate to
      “Computer ConfigurationAdministrative templatesInternet Communication ManagementInternet Communication settings”.
      Here you should enable these settings:
      – Turn off Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program
      – Turn off Help and support center “Did you know?” content
      – Turn off Windows Error Reporting

    • #31831 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Thanks!

    • #31832 Reply

      Jim

      Here are several brand new Dell Inspirons with Windows 7 Professional:

      http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-desktops?~ck=bt&c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd#!facets=80770~0~16063830&p=1

      Be aware that they all have Skylake CPUs (except for maybe the first one – I’m not sure what it has), which *might* mean that Microsoft will soon quit issuing security patches for it.

    • #31833 Reply

      Jim

      …and here are a few brand new HP desktop computers with Windows 7:

      http://store.hp.com/us/en/mdp/desktops/hp-280-microtower-244029–1#!&Tab=vao

    • #31834 Reply

      pmcjr6142
      AskWoody Lounger

      I don’t know what the Customer Experience Improvement Program is and don’t care. If MS really wanted to improve the customer experience, start by building trust in their Windows updates and quit slipping unwanted and unneeded stuff in these updates, eg, GWX. Right now, I don’t know if we can really trust the Security updates. Do we really need them in the first place? I just want to use my Win 7 computer as a machine to do certain tasks I have learned to do and benefit from without having to become a MS expert or constantly worry about what additional tricks are up their sleeves.
      Just your average senior citizen home computer user.

    • #31835 Reply

      Chris

      To go all ‘Waterboy’ on this one … Momma says that a leopard never changes its spots (it just moves ’em around a little so you think that it’s changed).

      If “trustworthy” (*cough*cough*) ole Microsoft was wanting to release a new version of an existing patch that did things in a markedly different way than said previous version did … then why not just release it as a NEW patch? Y’know – like how they do with every other patch that ISN’T a thinly-veiled attempt at ‘snooping for dollars’?

      Recent history seems to lean towards a ‘re-released’ patch just being a leopard with the same ole pots – just moved around a little … no matter how much MS claims to the contrary.

    • #31836 Reply

      NcO

      Hello Woody,

      I selected my KB numbers from the site technet.microsoft.com/library/security/ms16-oct and within from the table Affected Software.
      With my parameters Win7, X64, Office 2007, no flash, .. I select within that table the KB-numbers which i should apply.
      I am in doubt, because i do not know if my selection is complete. Do you know a way to remove my doubt?
      I will download my KB’s from the Microsoft Update Catalog.
      How can i download and apply the Malicious Software Removal update?
      I hope you will find a spare moment to answer my reply, thanks for your efforts.

    • #31837 Reply

      Ed

      @answerwoody… you left out “system” between Administrative templates and Internet Communication Management.

    • #31838 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Stop. Wait.

      There’s no immediate need to install any patches. As long as you aren’t using Internet Explorer, there’s only one 0day, and it isn’t widespread.

      Wait for the MS-DEFCON level to hit 3.

    • #31839 Reply

      Iggy

      Gracias Jim, will do a looksee.

      I guess the All or Nothing MS Update thing is just news to me. It’s not a happy development so far as I can see for us livestoc– er, customers.

    • #31840 Reply

      Anonymous

      I do not believe that this patch was re-released just to assist Enterprise users to migrate from W7 to W10. Any IT Pro worth their salt is not going to rely on this inadequate tool for that purpose. The compatibility scans have proven woefully inaccurate.

      The purpose of KB2952664 is to interrogate your group policy settings for CEIP. The current release may be just phoning back results to the mothership. I would expect they just want to know how many systems have opted out of data snooping. We do not know how they are going to react to the results, but it is a fair bet that the next release of the patch will execute a system change. My money is on them removing the opt-out option in CEIP and resetting it to the default setting. Probably permanently.

      If I am right, a blog is in the making. Some marketing executive will re-emphasize the need for system data to improve the delivery of Windows products and services.

    • #31841 Reply

      Jim

      ” If MS really wanted to improve the customer experience, start by building trust in their Windows updates and quit slipping unwanted and unneeded stuff in these updates, eg, GWX.”

      +1!

      That’s a really funny name: “Customer Experience Improvement Program”! MS is doing everything they can to IGNORE the customer’s needs and wants.

    • #31842 Reply

      abbodi86

      Skylake CPUs will be supported unril the end of Windows7/8.1 lifecycle
      https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/11675/windows-7-windows-8-1-skylake-systems-supported

    • #31843 Reply

      abbodi86
    • #31844 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      The Error Reporting setting mentioned is strictly speaking legacy from Windows XP, but it will configure the current setting at the same time.
      The correct one for Windows Vista and later is under Computer ConfigurationAdministrative TemplatesWindows ComponentsWindows Error ReportingDisable Windows Reporting

      The CEIP Group Policy setting has the same effect with the GUI setting. There is doubt that KB2952664 is compliant with that setting though. All other telemetry patches except for KB2952664 should be compliant and there are good indications that this is the case.

      They are both very good settings which can also be configured in GUI, not only in Group Policy.

      I haven’t looked into the Help and Support Center setting recently, but this may be actually a very valuable one. Thanks for posting about it. 🙂

    • #31845 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      CEIP is not a Windows Update related setting.
      If you don’t care about fine tuning, just use Windows or any other operating system with out of the box settings and update as the manufacturer intended and you will be OK.

    • #31846 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      I think if this proves to be correct, this is one of the most useful posts which I have read here in replies. Where is this file? Is it installed/uninstalled by KB2952664?

    • #31847 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      The two are not related.
      Opting out of CEIP only configures a setting but does not affect installed components.

    • #31848 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      Checking a task which is running does not mean that it transmits data over the internet. It can as well write data locally. You would have to use a network monitoring tool like Wireshark or firewalls with real-time logging and reporting built-in.

    • #31849 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      CEIP was started long ago, when Microsoft was much more discrete in what they tried to harvest.

    • #31850 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Likely. Scary.

    • #31851 Reply

      ax kramer
      AskWoody Lounger

      Some time ago Skybot was recommended as a means of undoing some of this MS data collection (spying). Is this still a valid option, and if so, how effective?

    • #31852 Reply

      Olaf

      Just to cause extra confusion, the patch names are mis-labelled.

      The .NET team labelled the updates rationally:
      1. Security Only Update for .NET
      2. Security and Quality Rollup for .NET
      Note however the disparity between “Rollup” and “Update”

      The Windows team went wild:
      1. Security Only Quality Update
      2. Security Monthly Quality Rollup
      Note that both updates have the words Security and Quality in them.
      I needed to re-read this several times to make sense of it.
      Windows team please ask .NET team on how to label patches!

      Don’t get me started on the fact that WSUS lets both versions through! So that means the security part of the patches will be installed twice, or something will fail horribly as usual.

    • #31853 Reply

      abbodi86

      CompatTelRunner is not a service, it’s the launcher that triggers the compatibility appraiser operation
      it’s ran by the known schedule tasks
      Microsoft Compatibility Appraiser
      ProgramDataUpdater

    • #31854 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      Thanks

    • #31855 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      Olaf, I notriced the same thing with WSUS.
      I am wondering if the word “quality” has exactly this meaning, to have both applied.
      But not both are available on windows Update.
      Totally confusing! :-S

    • #31856 Reply

      jelson
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m wondering if MS brought a copywriter or two into their Update Dept?

      Any end-user who’s WU isn’t set to Automatic now see only a few updates now… and they’ll be reassuringly told that update goofs are a thing of the past… they’re “Quality” now. 😉

    • #31857 Reply

      poohsticks

      @ch100,

      a. I think that Microsoft’s intended meaning for the word “quality” in this case
      is to indicate that these patches introduce to the operating system
      more orderliness, usefulness, error-correction, etc.,
      (and therefore, they introduce some additional “quality” to the working of the system).


      b. It seems to me that someone at MS got the idea to start using the word “quality” in describing their new updating system for 3 reasons:

      b1. It is difficult for anyone to argue with or to find a negative meaning for the word “quality” — quality is nearly always a positive thing.

      b2. They think that if they repeat something often enough, that folks will start to believe it. And to an extent, that is the way humans work. So if they keep calling the new update/rollup a “quality” thing, then people might associate installing the update package with bringing extra “quality” to their computing experience.
      However, it is likely with this kind of random, blanket use of a generic word that it will devalue the meaning of the word “quality” in the minds of the customers and they will ignore it, or find it annoying.

      b3. Putting in a new term (that does not have any special technical meanings) is an easy way to immediately set apart the old patching system and the new patching system. The patching system is not simple to describe – it uses the same words as part of the titles of different things, and it takes a lot of words to be fully clear to the reader what is being talked about – and the people dealing with these concepts have to be holding in their minds the correct conceptions of the different rollups and so forth in order to keep them separate in their thinking and to use them in the appropriate way on their computers.

      Therefore, tossing in the word “quality” might be an efficient way “to kill several birds with one stone”


      c. I expect that one of two things happened to cause the naming inconsistency between .Net and the normal Rollup — either

      c1. the .Net team simply left out the word “quality” in the name of one of the update packages by mistake, as a “typo”, or

      c2. the .Net team and the normal Rollup team came away with two different assumptions about how they are supposed to use the word “quality” in the new patching system.

      c2a. If that is the case, the .Net team probably thinks that they should use the word “quality” to denote only the NON-security patches, the ones that are “nice to have” in order to maintain a well-running system, but which are not “required” for the system’s security.
      So they only put the word “quality” in the name of the rollup that is the cumulative security plus non-security update package . They did not put the word “quality” in the non-cumulative security-only update package.

      c2b. And the normal Rollup team probably thinks that they should throw the word “quality” into the names of both patches, the non-cumulative security-only update package AND the cumulative security plus non-security update package.

      While it’s a small thing, the omission of the word “quality” in one of the .net update packages has led to a confusing and unnecessary inconsistency in their .Net update package’s and their normal Rollup update package’s naming conventions, which they should fix and make consistent.


      d. I expect that the person who thought this up (who spent all of 3 minutes on the issue, perhaps) intended to use the words “rollup” and “update” to distinguish between
      the cumulative security plus non-security update package (which they call “rollup”)
      and
      the non-cumulative security-only update package (which they call “update”),
      and did not mean that the word “quality” should be used as a proxy for that distinction
      (if that was indeed the misunderstanding on the part of the .Net team that led to the naming inconsistency).

      Therefore, if they decide to make the naming conventions consistent, I expect that the .Net team will start using the word “quality” in both names.


      🙂 Um… do I have too much time on my hands?
      Not really, but I am up in the middle of the night with a migraine and I can’t sleep but I can’t concentrate on doing much.

    • #31858 Reply

      poohsticks

      “it is a fair bet that the next release of the patch will execute a system change. My money is on them removing the opt-out option in CEIP and resetting it to the default setting. Probably permanently.”

      Wow, that would be bold of them, especially since they made sure to communicate with Woody last week regarding his InfoWorld article on this patch to assure him that the 2952664 patch is now just a benign, non-snooping patch filled with “sugar and spice and everything nice”.

    • #31859 Reply

      poohsticks

      @abbodi86,

      Thank you for sharing that link.

      I’m glad to be assured that any new Win 7 machine will be supported by MS until the end of the Win 7 lifecycle.

      In the last couple of weeks, I’ve seen a a couple of warning comments on askwoody.com telling folks to be careful not to buy a new Win 7 machine with a skylake cpu because it won’t be suppported, which originally IS what Microsoft said they were going to do, but I thought that I had read something 2 months ago saying that they changed their mind about not supporting those, because of the angry pushback from their customers (maybe large-organization customers).

    • #31860 Reply

      poohsticks

      @Iggy,

      The thing is, if a person buys a new Win 7 machine now, after the new patching system has begun,
      it might be the case that the computer owner is locked into going with Woody’s Group A updating process on that computer,
      meaning that the person is going to have to do “all or nothing” for patching,
      and can’t go with the Group B “security only” patching.

      I asked Woody this question a few days ago on a different discussion thread, and he said that the answer is still unknown — people will have to figure out their way around the new patching system and see what it allows and does not allow.

      I am hoping that the answer to this question is known soon, because the end of October (this month) is Microsoft’s firm deadline for manufacturers to stop making new Windows 7 machines.

    • #31861 Reply

      poohsticks

      @answerwoody,

      Thank you for this information!

      I had not known about the Help and Support Center.

      When I looked for it on my computer, it was branded as “Lenovo” with the Lenovo help area mentioned first, but I could see that it was also a windows thing featuring Microsoft content too.

      When I went to the upper righthand corner settings drop down box, it had 2 boxes pre-checked:

      the first one was something like “update the help and support center continuously with predictive stuff based on what you are doing on your computer” — anyway, it was SOMEthing like that

      the second one was “yes, i want to be in your help and support center customer improvement program and allow microsoft to receive reports about what i am typing, etc.” — or SOMEthing like that

      No, no, Microsoft – I do not want to send you reports about my computer activity!

      So I unticked those 2 boxes and shut the window down.

    • #31862 Reply

      Vols and Jezuz

      Monthly Quality Security Cumulative Rollup Update Package of Quality and Security

      I think they are hoping that people lose the will to live and just check mark it for updating before they can finish parsing the labels.

    • #31863 Reply

      AJ North

      Wasn’t it Benjamin Franklin who said, “Those who would give up essential Safety, to purchase a little temporary Quality, deserve neither Safety nor Quality”?

      Or was it, “One if by land, two if by sea and with six you get egg roll”?

    • #31864 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      You should be safe buying a Win7 computer, applying the 200+ patches to it, then reverting to Group B.

      As noted in another answer here, Microsoft is supporting Skylake processors – their original threat was just that. The big question is whether all the parts of your computer have Win7 drivers and, by definition, if you buy it with Win7 installed, they do.

    • #31865 Reply

      Rob

      Once bitten, twice shy..Trust Lost with MS!

    • #31866 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      That sounds like an early Cortana 🙂

    • #31867 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      At least Ballmer was a hoot to watch.
      This just makes me want to cry!

    • #31868 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody Lounger

      I’m hiding & ignoring the KB2952664 and KB2976978 updates again from WU. There’s no real benefit in installing any of those updates.

    • #31869 Reply

      Iggy

      @poohsticks, good points. I think I’m going to go with a refurb off of Fry’s. No Win10 with downgrade option which I prefer, just Win7.

      Every time someone says “Microsoft will no longer support X by Z date” I always mutter to myself “which would be different than now in what way?”

      It only hurts when I laugh.

    • #31870 Reply

      Iggy

      @woody, good to know. I’ll figure out how to be in Group B when/if necessary. Thanks.

    • #31871 Reply

      poohsticks

      Thanks, folks, for making me chuckle this evening!

    • #31872 Reply

      poohsticks

      the new guy’s Twitter description reads:

      name:
      Z.Z. Snazz

      works at:
      Microsoft

      job title(s):
      Panjandrum of Quality, Rollup Rustler, Update Umpire, Security Sovereign, Ridiculously-overpaid 27-year-old Wiseacre

    • #31873 Reply

      poohsticks

      @woody,

      When you say “apply the 200+ patches to it”, are you saying that if we buy a new Windows 7 computer now, and we connect it to Windows Update for the first time, Windows Update will search for what the computer is missing, and will show us all the old patches in a big long list, as individual patches (just like it always has before)?

      And the new October update/rollup package patches will appear on that list as options that we can freely check or uncheck, and we can ignore them if we want to?

      At the present time, the new patching system’s “cumulative security and non-security rollup” for October is not actually cumulative, in terms of including ALL the Windows 7 patches they’ve ever had — is that right?

      But one day in the future (maybe next year), it will be?

    • #31874 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      All of that is correct.

      One of these days I should put together a post on how to install Win7 from the ground up. It’s really not all that difficult. You need to install the two speedup patches manually – KB 3020369 and KB 3172605, and install them with the internet unplugged. Then you can pick the patches you want.

    • #31875 Reply

      Leo

      KB3150513 was updated October 10, 2016 for W10. It references Appraiser telemetry (to help Enterprise systems migrate to W10).

      The latest release of KB2052664 is a prerequisite for KB3150513.

      If KB2952664 is just to help Enterprises use telemetry from CEIP and associated services to MIGRATE to W10, why do these two KBs also apply to W7/8 Home and Pro systems?

      Why does the documentation reference UPGRADES TO A NEWER OS offered through Windows Update?

      1. Enterprise systems do not get W10 as an UPGRADE via Windows Update.
      2. W10 is no longer offered as an UPGRADE to W7/8 Home and Pro users via Windows Update.

    • #31876 Reply

      Bill C.
      AskWoody Lounger

      One of my favorite quotes for this age, now applied to the MS update mess! Bravo.

      Unfortunately, I suspect the majority of folks will never notice what they lost until their machine breaks, just like when you awake to the reality that you privacy is gone or their freedoms are gone.

    • #31877 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      Maybe you should update the advice about KB3020369 and replace with KB3177467 🙂

    • #31878 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody MVP

      It is all correct.
      If I understand correctly what the latest Technet article about this subject says, it will not be until around February/March 2017 when Microsoft is expecting to have all rolled up in only few patches and even then not almost mandatory like it is in Windows 10.

    • #31879 Reply

      silvergreylion

      @poohsticks Migraine and sleep disorder could be due to magnesium deficiency, you should try taking some. Most people have some degree of it.

    • #31880 Reply

      MrBrian

      More information:

      “Manage Windows upgrades with Upgrade Analytics” – https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/deploy/manage-windows-upgrades-with-upgrade-analytics

      “An Introduction to Windows Upgrade Analytics Service” (video) – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7mCoTQK1aw

      From “Get started with Upgrade Analytics” (https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/deploy/upgrade-analytics-get-started), we learn that the main Windows update needed for Upgrade Analytics is KB2952664 (Windows 7) or KB2976978 (Windows 8.1).

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

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