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  • What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?

    Home Forums AskWoody blog What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?

    This topic contains 42 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  cyberSAR 2 weeks, 4 days ago.

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    • #1987803 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I say, hoooray! Good for you. Keep doing what you’re doing. But at the same time, have a little compassion for the folks who aren’t having such a happ
      [See the full post at: What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?]

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1987821 Reply

      anonymous

      I don’t say much of anything but I usually assume they are either fibbing or or on a lucky roll.

    • #1987824 Reply

      anonymous

      I’m the guy from a week ago who had the problems with KB4512578 while running 1809.

      A few days after that fiasco, my machine tried to install a definition update for Windows Defender.  It failed to install several times even after multiple reboots.  I figured the only way around this mess was a bare metal install of 1903.  I downloaded the the Media Creation Tool directly from Microsoft. When I tried to run it to create a bootable thumb drive, Windows Defender blocked it due to unknown source!!!  I manually overrode the block and Windows gave an error when trying to run the Media Creation Tool!!!  It was near the end of the day so I shutdown the computer and wondered what amazing things were in store for me at boot up the next morning.

      The  next morning everything went sideways AGAIN.  Basic Windows functions wouldn’t work.  I ended up using Macrium Reflect for the fourth time to roll back to an image from before the computer tried to install the Windows Defender update.

      Like millions of others, I have had very few problems with Windows 10 over the years, however, this is getting very old, very quick.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1987832 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      As the article goes on to explain, nobody seems to know quite what went on. Was it a botched Win7-to-Win10 upgrade? A server problem?

      The article clearly explains that it was a server issue:

      Later in the day, Moster said it was a “server update” rather than the Windows upgrade.

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1987856 Reply

        anonymous

        I was going to say that it couldn’t be a Windows update issue, my bet was on networking.  Payment processing is normally fully separated from desktop systems for regulatory and security reasons.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        b
    • #1987858 Reply

      OscarCP
      AskWoody Plus

      It depends on what one uses  a computer for, which application software (“apps”) one has installed on it, which OS version (there are several “Windows 10” out there by now. Is it possible for developers, even with a fully staffed QC department keeping track of unfortunate events and keeping the Devs. informed, so they can look for and find out bugs that might only crawl out from below their rocks under circumstances no one foresaw?  Well: No. There will always be bugs (and glitchy code) left in the system even after the more fastidious checks and reviews. This is true of any complex piece of software, and operating systems are very much in this class.

      So the question is not if using a particular OS will be always trouble-free for every user, particularly when there are hundreds of thousands of them and many of them do not do exactly the same things with their machines. The question is how often this will happen with one particular OS compared to others. Does anyone know of such comparisons? I would be interested to see them and imagine others here might.

      Now, so this does not  get taken as a defense of Windows 10, I must add that I would not be terribly surprised if it rated worse than other OS, because of its (for such an important and widely used OS) breakneck pace of major system upgrade releases. New releases always have problems: bugs to be fixed, wrinkles to be ironed out, scripts and applications that no longer run or run badly. It takes time to fix those things, and time for “power” users, in particular, to work the inevitable runarounds and customize the system to work the way they need it.

      For my part, I have used all Windows from 95 through 7 and have had many problems with them, but nary a problem with patches. But that I attribute not to a particular virtue of MS, but to being careful of what I install and when. Never without first checking on the patches by visiting sites like this, even before there was a Woody’s, and by talking with IT people that might know about it (one of the advantages of working with a large organization, university, or the government for years and becoming friendly with such people).

      Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W(?) + Mac&Lx

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1987875 Reply

      Zaphyrus
      AskWoody Lounger

      I would like to say to them that they should be careful of what they install. updates aren’t as reliable as they were in W7.

      So always have backups ready.

      Just someone who don't want Windows to mess with its computer.
    • #1987877 Reply

      Mr. Natural
      AskWoody Plus

      Happy with Windows 10 is an oxymoron isn’t it?  🙂

      Regardless if it’s an isolated incident or a widespread outage it’s important to know either way. I thank Askwoody and everyone involved (for many, many years) for making my job easier by being well informed and educated.

      Support Askwoody!

       

      (how did I do? is my check in the mail?)  🙂

       

      Red Ruffnsore reporting from the front lines.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1987911 Reply

        woody
        Da Boss

        Absolutely… we’ll double your pay, effective immediately!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1987913 Reply

      Chris B
      AskWoody Plus

      For me, the patching process is all about risk management. I have been a homeowner for 45 years. I’ve never had a house fire and I have no expectation of having one, but I have  carried insurance throughout and have tried to avoid anything that might cause a fire.

      Same with patching – the fact that loads of people patch immediately, or never patch at all, and have never had a problem is irrelevant to me. My strategy is to minimise the risk of  problems hitting.

      Chris
      Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1987922 Reply

      Francois3000
      AskWoody Lounger

      I work in IT Support(own business). I find that a lot of users are lazy or plead ” I don’t know how”, to maintain their machines in terms of MS updates, software updates, driver updates, cleaning temp files, checking Restore point, backing up data etc etc. My own machines (6) are regularly updated and maintained. I cannot remember a time when I had issues (maybe 1 in past 3 years) I have a weekly tip service(free) going out via email to remind/teach users in using/maintaining their machines and the software on it. These tips make them more productive, and daring to make better use of this wonderful tool. Backups are set up on all user machines, and I get the log file which reflects successes and failures. This I review from time to time and advise users in remediation when required. Needless to say, most of my consulting time is spent in installing new machines(my way), and not so much troubleshooting(maybe I should allow more errors so I can make more money? – but then I get enough referrals by providing an efficient service). I will rather assist users in becoming more productive than sitting fixing basic errors. I agree MS doesn’t always get it right, but users just want to get onto their PCs, drive it away, and never bother in any maintenance. But hey! Let’s blame Microsoft for everything.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
    • #1987944 Reply

      Ascaris
      AskWoody_MVP

      When someone tells me that, I just say that I am glad they have a setup that works for them.  I don’t like Windows 10, but not everyone is me.  The vast majority of people, in fact, are not me.  I don’t doubt that a lot of people have never had any Windows 10 update issues or other things.  I haven’t used 10 very much, but in the time I have, I have not had any issues with any “real,” bare-metal installations.

      Windows 10 in a VM on my old (2008) laptop was a different story.  It would not update from RTM (1507) to whatever was current at that time, and nothing I did made it work.  It would tell me there was an update, attempt to perform it, which naturally took a long time, then it would give me a “something went wrong” message, and after another lengthy time reverting, it was back to the start (at least it still worked!)

      I know I could have downloaded an .iso of an intermediate build, then tried to update to that, then to a newer one, but I wanted to see the official Microsoft choices, like a non-techie user would face.  Windows Update made no effort to try the stepping-stone approach… it insisted on trying to install the same one-step, up to date patch over and over, failing over and over.  It was not pretty!

      That was a VM, though, so I kinda let it off the hook for that one.  I can’t possibly know that it was the fault of Windows and not the VM software itself.  I’m suspicious, and the idea of trying the same thing over and over doesn’t thrill me, but I still don’t know for sure.

       

      Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.17.3).

      • #1987974 Reply

        Mr. Natural
        AskWoody Plus

        When I started with Windows 10 1511 in the office, windows update was broken badly and didn’t play nice with WSUS at all. My routine back then to get broken windows update working again on workstations was to reset the update catalog on the pc by turning off BITS, Crytographic services and Windows Update service, then delete the windows\software distribution folder and restart those 3 services.

        That is my first recommendation to anyone that repeatedly receive an error and are unable to install an update.

        This situation improved over time with the release of “service stacks” but I did have to do that with 2 systems yesterday which were failing to install 1903. Once I reset the catalog on those systems they were able to install 1903.

        Red Ruffnsore reporting from the front lines.

    • #1988019 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      From the full post, “My Windows 10 All-In-One For Dummies books, at almost 1,000 pages each, are now in their third edition. So, yeah, I know Win10 pretty well.”

      I could probably write a book, “A Thousand Ways To Break Windows And Figure Out How To Put It Back Together Again.”  I started gathering material for such a tome in the late ’90’s with my first DIY build.  Drive imaging was paramount to my success, hence the first line in my signature.

      I automated my drive imaging using Task Scheduler a few years ago, so my oldest drive image is one week or less.  I use lots of separate drives and lots of partitions (logical drives) in my dual-boot daily driver desktop.  Currently I have two SSHD’s and four SSD’s (in various configurations), and 21 logical drives.  Three of these logical drives (OS, Programs, Users) are imaged weekly.  They are each sized at 100GB.

      I still tinker quite a lot, so consequently I pooch Windows quite a lot.  But I can reboot to the B side of my dual-boot, restore my A side OS drive image, reboot to the A side and be signed in and running, all in less than 6 minutes.  I know my drive images are solid because I use them quite a lot.

      If a Windows update or upgrade should pooch my installation (which has yet to happen) I can get rid of it and be whole again in under 6 minutes.  As a direct result of my continual tinkering, I am fearless when it comes to Windows updates/upgrades.

      In the past I’ve had my third-party start menu, StartIsBack++ kicked out by an upgrade, and all it took was a reinstall to get it back and working just as before.  1903 didn’t even kick it out.  My Windows 10 Pro 1903 looks, feels and acts like a super-stable Windows 7 Ultimate.

      My desktop and my NAS are both built on 2013 motherboard and CPU.  I’m a Seeker (cannon fodder) and I’m clicking Check for updates almost daily.  If I hit a bump, y’all will be the first to know.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes (Windows updates are system changes), in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Dew

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1988069 Reply

      rexr
      AskWoody Plus

      I’ve only been on Win10 since v1511, now on v1903H1. It has not caused problems on either my old MSI laptop or new Asus-mobo desktop (knock-knock). Personal use only, not business. But I’ve gotta say after reading the horror stories of MS-botched updates and patches to the patches, I dread updating this OS. I wait a couple of months after updates are released to install them, and it takes me several hours of preparation, backups, and steeling the nerves.

      I rely on this forum and newsletters to tell me when it’s safe to take the flak-jacket off of the C:drive and let updates in. Thanks!

      Win10H v1909 18363.476
      2 parrots and a cat
      • This reply was modified 4 weeks ago by  rexr.
    • #1988117 Reply

      cmptrgy
      AskWoody Plus

      I don’t say much of anything but I usually assume they are either fibbing or or on a lucky roll.

      I’m one of those who isn’t fibbing or on a lucky roll.

      My HP laptop was originally Windows 7 Pro which I purchased refurbished and when it was time upgraded it to Windows 10 Pro w/o any issues.
      — Since then in the course of learning how Windows 10 is supposed to run, it went very well with minimum effort.

      I also have a Dell desktop that was originally Windows 7 Home and when it was time upgraded it to Windows 10 Home w/o any issues.
      — I use this as my test computer.

      I had a Windows 10 Pro desktop with the same “upbringing” as those 2 PC’s. I donated it earlier this year to a family in need where I volunteer. I just called them for verification and they say it still runs excellently.

      That doesn’t mean everything was always perfect but as a simple computer user I pay attention to how to ensure the PC is supposed to run as I’ve done since 1985.
      — I’m so use to changes I adjust to whatever a new OS needs to run correctly.

      Maybe that means I’ve been super lucky but I treat my PC’s like my car and my home & lawn maintenance.

      HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1988134 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?

      If someone asks my opinion, I will look at the computer they have:
      * If their computer isn’t that old, I will likely tell them “Good for you!”
      * If their computer is old, I will likely tell them that at some point Windows 10 will no longer work with their computer, and so when that happens they may want to buy another computer or switch to Linux.

      If they haven’t asked my opinion, I will likely tell them “Good for you!” I’m learning that most people don’t want to hear what you have to say, unless it is something positive. If their computer isn’t that old, they probably won’t have any problems with Windows 10 anyway. However, if their computer is old and they have upgraded to W10, I will say a prayer for them under my breath and hope that all goes well for them.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      • #1988614 Reply

        warrenrumak
        AskWoody Plus

        This isn’t anything new though.

        Windows NT 3.51 ran on 386, 486 and early Pentium processors.
        Windows NT 4 bumped up the minimum requirement to a 486/25.
        Windows 2000 required a Pentium 133 processor, leaving behind a lot of 486’s that could run NT 4.
        Windows XP left behind Pentiums less than 233mhz and was basically unusable on anything less than 300mhz.
        Windows Vista required 800mhz and a much more powerful video card than many people had at the time.
        Windows 7 bumped that minimum to 1,000mhz.

        Windows 8 and 10, on the other hand, have not significantly bumped the system requirements in the last 10 years.  More memory and an SSD can prop up old machines for years.  Heck, people have even gotten current versions of Windows 10 running on Pentium 4 systems from the mid-00’s!

        So, sure…. some future version of Windows 10 will leave behind some older pieces of hardware.  It’ll happen.  It’s always happened.

        But it doesn’t happen anywhere as rapidly as it used to.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        b
    • #1988133 Reply

      anonymous

      I’m a little more blunt. Which borders on offensive and so does not always pass moderation. But since you ask

      What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?

      (First I have to wait for them to finish describing there system and career qualifications. Then when they take a breath, I take my turn.)

      “Yes that is a shiny and luxurious coat you have. But your posing and preening does not answer my question, respond to my point, or assist with a repair. Thank you.” Then wait for another voice that may prove more helpful.

      It is my own fault that this is the mental image that occurs in my own head. It is my problem that I project this image onto the rightfully proud person that wants to take a few minutes to brag. What I find so refreshing in Woody’s writing style, here and his published books, is a very different image.

      It comes across as an experienced hand. A hale and hearty fellow, who on hearing of your troubles says, “Wow. I haven’t heard that one before.” (starts rolling up sleeves) “Not sure how that could happen. Let’s jump in with a few proven methods, and see what we can figure out.”

      Following this method, it may still turn out that the problem arose betwixt the keyboard and chair. But the help has been given and received. And that is a win. Whereas the posturing method is another facet of the phenomenon now called “othering”, an effort to put the other person firmly outside the group considered worthy of help.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1988158 Reply

        jabeattyauditor
        AskWoody Lounger

        It is possible to not have problems with an operating system and still assist others.

        Really. It is.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1988289 Reply

      anonymous

      I wouldn’t call any Windows 10 version stable unless it can go through its initial and 3 consecutive monthly security update cycles without encountering serious failures of core OS functionality — OS boot/operation, peripheral I/O, app execution, video, network, print, etc.  Based on that criterion, how many Win 10 versions pass?  1803 seems to.   1809 didn’t.  Doesn’t look like the 1903/1909 combo does, after half a year.   System admins are facing a dismal situation for Win 10 version selection and management in the next 6 months.

    • #1988400 Reply

      MWmC
      AskWoody Plus

      I am CTO for a startup and, while I will continue to have a Windows 10 machine for my own use, I have decided that the company will use iMacs as our desktop platform. Microsoft Windows 10 is simply not fit for purpose.

      • #1989579 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody_MVP

        Obviously you didn’t go with Linux. But did you consider it? If so, what did you think about it?

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        • #1990380 Reply

          MWmC
          AskWoody Plus

          Good morning! I’m sorry for the delay in replying; I gave myself some downtime yesterday.

          Linux wasn’t my choice for our non-tech-team staff because so many of our (especially younger) hires have experience with OS X and required no familiarization with it and were also able to adopt the Microsoft Office tools that we will use alongside other applications on the iMacs.

          But Linux is definitely the tool of choice for my tech team; we use it as our platform for development. I don’t force a particular distribution on my developers, because some have favorites, and I like the extra productivity that comes from letting people have their choice.

          Me? It’s been Ubuntu for me since it hit the scene, and I continue to like its security. A number of the team like Mint. The youngest seem to go for Debian, because that’s what they had in school. I have separate machines for OS X and Linux [rank hath its privileges]; everyone else is dual boot Mac and their favorite Linux.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1988429 Reply

      anonymous

      Depends whether family, acquaintance or stranger.

      Family don’t have time and get it done for them. Sometimes that means a long time between updates so I only set their devices to metered connection to minimise the damage.

      Acquaintances. Tell ’em. Tell ’em again. Tell ’em “don’t come to me saying nobody warned me”.

      Online or other strange. Give a link that explains the problem and what to do about it. If they can’t do what they need they can ask another question or risk it. Their problem, not mine.

      Argumentative acquaintance or stranger. It takes two to argue.

       

    • #1988464 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      As for the question in the OP, “What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?”

      I say, “Yeah, me too.”

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes (Windows updates are system changes), in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Dew

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1988509 Reply

      cyberSAR
      AskWoody Plus

      What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10

      Keep my number and your credit card handy 🙂

    • #1988898 Reply

      mn–
      AskWoody Lounger

      It is possible to not have problems with an operating system and still assist others.

      Indeed it is. Done plenty of that myself. Also that generalizes quite a bit further than just “an operating system” …

      So the question is not if using a particular OS will be always trouble-free for every user, particularly when there are hundreds of thousands of them and many of them do not do exactly the same things with their machines. The question is how often this will happen with one particular OS compared to others. Does anyone know of such comparisons?

      Even better question, does anyone know of credible and impartial comparisons? With adjustment for problem severity…

      I mean, some of the help requests we get are just because the user interface changes. Like the fairly recent MS Office (Click-to-Run) changes, yes, got a couple of calls about that too. “It looks different today…! Where do I click now?” (Of course it doesn’t help those users at all that Windows 10 feature updates include user interface changes. Then again also got these from folks on Windows 7 when Firefox and Acrobat Reader had use interface changes…)

    • #1989818 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Please keep posting here to tell us when things go right!

      The first three cumulative updates for version 1909 have presented me with zero issues.

      Knuckle dragger Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Crazy/Ignorant Toxic drinker Blockhead Unwashed mass Seeker/Sucker "Ancient/Obsolete" (Group ASAP) Win10 v.1909

    • #1992138 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      oh woody.

      maybe you can point those people who say they’re “happy with Win10” to read this recent ZDNet article called “Why is Windows 10 a mess?” 😀

      https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-is-windows-10-a-mess-ex-microsoft-engineer-blames-the-culture-of-made-men/

    • #1992249 Reply

      cmptrgy
      AskWoody Plus

      oh woody.

      maybe you can point those people who say they’re “happy with Win10” to read this recent ZDNet article called “Why is Windows 10 a mess?” 😀

      https://www.zdnet.com/article/why-is-windows-10-a-mess-ex-microsoft-engineer-blames-the-culture-of-made-men/

      Please, why don’t you believe that some of us are happy with Windows 10?

      I don’t know what the percentage is but some of us are fine with Windows 10.

      HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
      • #1992256 Reply

        anonymous

        I don’t know what the percentage is

        It is a very large percentage. Accurate numbers are hard to come by, but I’m willing to spitball a range of 67-75 percent are truly happy, with an additional twenty-plus percent satisfied or indifferent. We are only ever discussing outliers. Those past the 98th percentile or even fewer. But that is still a very large population by headcount.

        I do not have an issue with those “of us are happy with Windows 10”, I’m one who has not had any issue that stems from the OS. I respect the advice I read here, and act accordingly.

        What does disrupt my day are those “who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems.” Also those who want to sideline a discussion of real issues with multiple incidences extant, by saying ‘but my system works just fine.”

        Please, why don’t you believe that some of us are happy with Windows 10?

        Are you willing to accede that there are an extremely small minority of users experiencing real issues? Even on hardware built specifically to Microsoft standards, and branded with the Microsoft name?

        • #1992325 Reply

          cmptrgy
          AskWoody Plus

          “Are you willing to accede that there are an extremely small minority of users experiencing real issues?”
          — I would accede but I already believe what you mentioned as well as the rest of your post.
          — On ‘but my system works just fine.”, I know what you mean. I hear that all the time where I volunteer.
          I’m not an expert by any means but I hope we are friends here.

          HP EliteBook 8540w laptop Windows 10 Pro (x64)

          • #1992885 Reply

            anonymous

            We can consider each other as friends and continue to treat others in a friendly manner.

            — Each side can believe the there are real people on both sides with a full range of contentment.
            — Every individual can voice an opinion of support or criticism of how Microsoft comports itself. Whether that is on internal matters, customer interaction over the product, or some far reaching goal of advancing the species development.
            — Exchanging viewpoints is a good way to understand others.
            — Sometimes it can even change minds. Yours, theirs, or both. It is kind of hard to predict.
            — Most of the larger discussions do not assist repairs, or give answers to reader’s questions.

            Expertise is not claimed, and should always be in doubt of an anonymous voice.

    • #1992331 Reply

      Carl D
      AskWoody Lounger

      I also seem to be one of the “lucky ones” who never seems to have any problems with Windows 10 (64bit Professional – 1903).

      Mind you, I always install W10 with the Internet disconnected to avoid most of the junk like Candy Crush and it’s ilk. I also install all of my drivers (from the manufacturers’ websites) and adjust all of my privacy settings, etc. before connecting to the Internet.

      One new thing I noticed was when I clean installed 1903 with an updated ISO recently – when I eventually connected to the Internet after doing all of the above a new message popped up which said something like “Now that you’re connected, we can finish setting things up for you”. I thought “uh-oh, don’t tell me it is now going to download all the rubbish like Candy Crush, etc.”. But, luckily, it didn’t after I closed the message box. Thank goodness for that.

      I then remove the rest of the ‘apps’ that I don’t want with the Tools option of CCleaner (which actually only ‘hides’ them) so I follow up with O&O’s AppBuster. I also use their ShutUp10 to adjust my privacy, etc. options beyond what W10’s own settings allow.

      And, I use StopUpdates10 to keep updates turned off until I’m ready to install them, not when MS wants to (I don’t trust W10’s own deferral settings). At the moment I have updates turned off and paused until 11/11/2099 – lol – I’ll be 142 years old when that comes around.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #1992342 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        Never knew about Appbuster.  I booted Windows 10 just to have the fun of doing this.  Alas, it won’t kill Cortana, MS Store, or Edge, the ones I was the most looking forward to removing.  I could use install_wim_tweak again, assuming it still works, but since I don’t actually use 10, not really worth the effort.  I was just hoping for a quick bit of entertainment!

        Still, thanks for mentioning it.  It’s better than it was.

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.17.3).

        1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #1992343 Reply

        DrBonzo
        AskWoody Plus

        …and you only need four third-party programs to get W10 to behave the way you want it to behave. That is just so cool.

        @CarlD – that sarcasm is not directed at you. I’m glad you’re having a good experience with W10. It’s directed at MS who lost me for good when I walked in on a win 7 computer as it was actively downloading and installing W10 without my permission.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1992567 Reply

      Chris B
      AskWoody Plus

      Can I put my comments on specific issues in perspective. I recently replaced two old Win 7 machines with new Win 10 PCs. My overall impressions of Win 10 are that, as an overall OS, it is considerably better than Win  7. That surprised me – I expected a smaller improvement. So overall I am in the “happy with Windows 10” camp.

      My only complaint is that the patching process is opaque (in terms of the control I have over it) and there are too many bugs out there for me to leave it to do its thing on its own. I would hope to have to spend less time on caution and watching for problems than I do.

      Chris
      Win 10 Pro x64 Group A

    • #1992971 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody MVP

      Shortly after Windows 7 was released I bought Ultimate and did a clean install, since there was no upgrade path from XP and I had skipped Vista outright. The only clean install I have done since was Windows 10 Pro on a purpose-built DIY NAS bare metal box with RAID 10 (or 1 + 0) utilizing an mSATA SSD for the OS and four 3TB HDD’s for the array.

      I have been dual-booting for about two decades (same OS on both sides) and using multiple HDD”s with multiple partitions (recognized by the OS as logical drives). I developed procedures outlined on my web site for reasons which are also outlined on my web site to separate the main Windows System Folders onto different partitions on different HDD”s. Lots of registry editing is involved, but lots of testing for stability, performance, efficiency, drive imaging and recovery have convinced me that it’s the best way to go, for me.

      My daily-driver desktop is a dual-boot of Windows 10 Pro, on 2013 MB and CPU but newer drives. The A side is Windows 7 Home Premium upgraded to Pro upgraded to Windows 8 upgraded to Windows 8.1 upgraded to Windows-Insider-released Windows 10. I exited the Insider program at version 1607, and have since upgraded through every RTM version to 1903 (OS Build 18362.449).

      The B side was once my A side while I tinkered with Windows beyond Windows 7 Ultimate on the other side. It was my daily-driver OS.  When I realized that I was spending much more of my time using Windows 10 than Windows 7 Ultimate simply because it was noticably more responsive than my enhanced Windows 7 Ultimate, I stopped using Windows 7 Ultimate, and upgraded that side directly to Windows 10, version 1709 as I recall, and it became the B side of my dual-boot. I still tinker enthusiastically with Windows, but I do it on the B side for the most part.

      I’ve always ignored the advice of ‘experts’, preferring to learn rather than listen. With judicious and prodigious use of drive imaging/restoration, I’ve piddled my way along to the extent that I’ve probably broken Windows in more ways than most anyone I know, and as a direct consequence learned a great deal about how Windows functions along the way.

      Dual-booting provides the opportunity to make direct comparisons between different OS’s using not identical, but exactly the same hardware for both installations. That is how I’ve made my comparisons between Windows 7 and Windows 10, with Windows 10 winning hands down.

      I have never deferred updates/upgrades in any OS, knowing that I have drive images at the ready for any unforeseen inelligent consequences, so the ability to defer has never been a point of referrence for me.

      So I say that I’m happy with Windows 10 and it never causes problems because that’s the way it is. I’m happy with it because it has proven to be faster, more stable and more efficient than Windows 7. I have not had issues with updates/upgrades. That being said, I’ve broken Windows 10 in enough different ways that I’m able to offer help and advice in many different areas of concerns/problems.

      The part of my signature that is in bold red is the most important advice I can offer. Updates/upgrades make system changes. Have recent backups on hand in case something goes awry, and all you have to do is restore your image. It’s rather simplistic, but it certainly works, and takes away the pain.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes (Windows updates are system changes), in case you need to start over!
      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns
      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Dew

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #1996409 Reply

      Average-Jane
      AskWoody Plus

      I bought a Windows 10 laptop in 2017, and a supplementary one for travel in May this year.  Both on Windows 10 Home and no tweaks done to either system. Neither of them have had issues caused by updates, but that doesn’t stop me from keeping an AskWoody tab open at all times to keep an eye on the DEFCON system and follow your advice.  The possibility of an update issue is a constant source of stress.  I wish Microsoft would back off of this ridiculous feature update cadence.  And have a dedicated QA department.  But, as they say, wish in one hand and s*** in the other and see which hand fills up first.

    • #1996591 Reply

      ScotchJohn
      AskWoody Plus

      Keep my number and your credit card handy

      Don’t you think that MS would have anti-trust problems if they, suddenly and unilaterally, started to charge for the use of the operating system?  Certainly, I could see the EU going after that one, even if the US were passive.

      Dell E5570 Latitude, Intel Core i5 6440@2.60 GHz, 8.00 GB - Win 10 Pro

      • #1996603 Reply

        jabeattyauditor
        AskWoody Lounger

        Keep my number and your credit card handy

        Don’t you think that MS would have anti-trust problems if they, suddenly and unilaterally, started to charge for the use of the operating system?  Certainly, I could see the EU going after that one, even if the US were passive.

        Not sure what you mean – Microsoft has always charged for the use of their operating systems.

        • #1996695 Reply

          cyberSAR
          AskWoody Plus

          I do computer repair. I meant get ready to pay me for my service when it does break 🙂

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    Reply To: What do you tell folks who say they’re happy with Win10 – and it never causes problems?

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