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  • What does Microsoft expect to get from GitHub?

    Home Forums AskWoody blog What does Microsoft expect to get from GitHub?

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    This topic contains 52 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  OscarCP 1 year, 6 months ago.

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    • #195921 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Simple answer: developers. I think they’re going to be disappointed by the reaction. What do you think?
      [See the full post at: What does Microsoft expect to get from GitHub?]

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #195923 Reply

      Microfix
      Da Boss

      An exodus to GitLab as per here:

      https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/technology/gitlab-sees-huge-traffic-spike-after-news-of-microsoft-buying-github/

      ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

      5 users thanked author for this post.
      • #195929 Reply

        zero2dash
        AskWoody Lounger

        Just came to post this.
        Plenty of people on /r saying they would move from GitHub to GitLab, and they expected others to do the same.

        https://www.theverge.com/2018/6/4/17422788/microsoft-github-acquisition-official-deal
        “When it comes to our commitment to open source, judge us by the actions we have taken in the recent past, our actions today, and in the future,” says Nadella, in an attempt to ease concerns around Microsoft’s acquisition.

        The issue isn’t your commitment to anything; the issue is trust, and frankly, you have none in the eyes of any Windows environment user worth their salt especially over the last few years. If this had happened 5-10 years ago, there wouldn’t be so much trepidation. Nowadays though, people will absolutely distance themselves from this. The phrase “a broken clock is right 2 times a day” comes to mind. Just because you’ve opened up PowerShell and created VS Code does not excuse all the other practices you’ve been blatantly guilty of lately in the Windows environment. Privacy issues, botched updates, forced updates, forced upgrades, and countless other related issues. That’s not just going to be swept under the rug and forgotten. You need an olive tree, not just a couple of branches.

        Total of 23 users thanked author for this post. Here are last 20 listed.
        • #195931 Reply

          Microfix
          Da Boss

          Are MS are going to introduce Home/ Pro/ Enterprise access editions to GitHub..as per the W10 framework?

          Neutered access with paid subscriptions..I hear the MS cash registers pinging..

          ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

          3 users thanked author for this post.
        • #196004 Reply

          Jan K.
          AskWoody Lounger

          “When it comes to our commitment to open source, judge us by the actions we have taken in the recent past, our actions today, and in the future,” says Nadella

          Don’t worry, buddy. We do….

          And when this user shifts full time to open source, you won’t find any Ms code in it…

          5 users thanked author for this post.
        • #196003 Reply

          anonymous

          There has always been a distrust of Microsoft, longer than 5-10 years ago. People that have open source projects on GitHub might have reacted the same way they have done now. Do you remember trying browse sites that blocked access from people who were using Internet Explorer approximately a little more than one decade ago? (If they had told people about why they did block IE and pointed out an alternative browser such action could have help their projects.)

          • #196034 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            Do you remember trying browse sites that blocked access from people who were using Internet Explorer approximately a little more than one decade ago?

            No.  That happened?

            I never used IE, even during the height of its dominance, except for performing Windows Updates in Windows XP, so I had not heard of this.  I went from Netscape Navigator during the Windows 3.1 days to Netscape Communicator 3.0 and 4.x, and from there to Mozilla 1.0 (now called Seamonkey), and from there to Firefox (once they settled on a name), which I used until FF Quantum, at which time I moved to Waterfox.  Always Netscape or a derivative, never IE.

            I did run a website at the time that displayed a “Please don’t use IE” page and an essay about why I thought they shouldn’t be using it (written by yours truly, so it was probably a lot longer than it had to be), but I never went so far as to deny access to IE users.  That would have been antithetical to the original vision of the web, which was all about the viewer of the content having all of the choices.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.17.4).

            1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #196043 Reply

              zero2dash
              AskWoody Lounger

              Same here. I went from Netscape Navigator to Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox (and then back to NN) during the height of the MS antitrust suits. In all my computing years’, I don’t remember having any issues with sites refusing to load in browsers other than IE. (Other than recently with SharePoint, which is obviously built for IE, but thank goodness for the IETab addon.)

              1 user thanked author for this post.
            • #196082 Reply

              anonymous

              Yeah it was a thing. You are right that most sites would be polite, but some obscure die hard site owners would block access based on Internet Explorer’s agent string. I do wish that the screen captures had not been lost so I could provide proof.

        • #196107 Reply

          anonymous

          You need an olive tree, not just a couple of branches.

          More like an olive grove/orchard.

          -lehnerus2000

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #195930 Reply

      bobcat5536
      AskWoody Plus

      Why would Microsoft take on more responsibility, when it can’t even handle the current load. All this does is make the malware-virus we all know as Microsoft stronger. Bet they pull more people off of Windows and move them to Github. That’s going to make patching a whole lot better. Right ?

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #195922 Reply

      anonymous

      The reaction is already pretty negative. Alternatives to Github are already commenting on the spike in traffic they’re getting, and the spike in repository imports.

      My reaction to this is that I’m waiting for them to ruin Github (An amazing feat given how bad Github already is) like the did Skype. I rather they work on fixing the things they own know than buying up other assets and ruining those.

      • #196035 Reply

        anonymous

        like the did Skype

        Turning Skype into the terrible incarnation it now exists in took some doing considering they had two excellent products (MSN Messenger and pre-MS skype) to work with.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
        • #196352 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          Skype for Business is a good product. We use that at my job.

          I’ve never used any other version of Skype.

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          • #196367 Reply

            DAVe3283
            AskWoody Plus

            What? When they moved us from Lync (re-skinned MSN Messenger as far as I could tell) to Skype for Business everything just fell apart. Messages don’t send but say they did, history re-writes itself in the chat window, it randomly changes fonts for outgoing messages, I can send but not receive files, and it now puts a photo of my face over the top of desktop sharing. I know what I look like, I want to see the presentation!

            I would call it a lot of things, but a “good product” is not one of them. Though maybe that is only by comparison to Lync, which was pretty decent.

            • #196520 Reply

              MrJimPhelps
              AskWoody_MVP

              Skype for Business works flawlessly for us. We are spread out over a multi-state area, with some international offices. I do some user support via Skype for Business, mainly remote control of a user’s desktop. I have used various products for remote control, but nothing has been as easy and as bug-free for this purpose as Skype for Business, except for the previous program we used, Communicator (another Microsoft program).

              Group "L" (Linux Mint)
              with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
    • #195934 Reply

      bknight721
      AskWoody Lounger

      They will probably pick off at least a few developers, but they will pay dearly for them….7.5 Billion dearly. It would be interesting to see how their estimated mass exodus numbers compare to the real mass exodus numbers in the end.

      Group "L": Linux Mint dual-booting Windows 10 Pro.

    • #195938 Reply

      anonymous

      Microsoft will want a return on the investment. Monetize, monetize, monetize. The $7.5 billion has to create new business/revenue. They will go through their new toy chest with a machete. They will move the ‘service’ to Azure and start charging their standard cloud subscription fees. They will kill off all existing contracts and replace them with their own standard developer contracts, which most developers have always loathed.

      The other contributing companies: Apple, Google, IBM, Red Hat and others – their projects will be moved unless Microsoft seizes them. I do not know if they can legally do that considering they are open source, but then again MS now owns Github so I assume they also now own the code. This stuff has to have an enormous value. I can not see them letting it go.

      All MS acquisitions end up being poorly mismanaged. Even if they publicly say they are committed to open source and its purpose, I think they will have a different view of it behind the curtain. Trust is not something we associated with this company.

      10 users thanked author for this post.
      • #195951 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Could they sell it for parts?

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W + Mac&Lx

      • #196070 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        By copyright law, MS does not own any third party code on GitHub. However, the lack of trust developers have for MS does not bode well for GitHub. Projects need to be accessible but it does not matter where the repository is sitting as long as one can find the URL. So there is no real reason for them to stay on GitHub as long as they can update the links to the new site and the new site offers the services they require. Plus, developers have the skills to do a migration, so that does not scare them.

         

    • #195945 Reply

      MrJimPhelps
      AskWoody_MVP

      I am reminded of something that happened in an earlier time — Borland bought Ashton-Tate in order to get the dBase user base — they literally bet the farm to do so — only to see virtually all of those users abandon dBase for FoxBase, a program Microsoft bought and recristened as FoxPro. Borland came very close to going out of business because of this decision, while Microsoft took over that market.

      It is therefore interesting to see Microsoft spend billions to buy GitHub, only to see huge numbers of users abandon GitHub.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #196039 Reply

        anonymous

        Maybe this is an opportunity for Borland to buy GitLab and return the favor!

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #195956 Reply

      Microfix
      Da Boss

      [conspiracy theory]

      MS have power and with power clever lawyers. Maybe, just maybe this aquisition was done a while ago and only made public today.  The element of surprise works in mysterious ways and in this instance, to the advantage of MS. So, my question is, could MS have bought Github with a legally binding clause NOT to disclose the purchase to the public until a certain date?

      If so, perhaps MS have had github data for weeks/ months.

      [end conspiracy theory] Ouch! that hurt..

      ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #195958 Reply

      anonymous

      I think with the going rate for a tech forum pegged at 7 billion, Woody is having a little lie down somewhere quiet.
      UKBrianC

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #195985 Reply

      anonymous

      Just one question: How can MSFT be so stupid for so long and still making tons of money?
      Answer: …. (open source, fill in the blank) ….

    • #195995 Reply

      anonymous

      The post created sometime ago about noticing a Microsoft developer’s account on Github seems to have been no real sign of change you and some of us thought it could be. I do not know the long term future as much the next person, but this may be like their old embrace, extend, extinguish routine.

      Github’s possible future?…

      When Sourceforge was acquired and nearly ruined by DICE Holdings, Inc (now DHI) very quick corrupt monetizing of open source software project installers, until Slashdot Media (now owned by BIZX) bought it back stopped the practice. Of course you could likely find developers of certain projects still have a distrust of Sourceforge because of that now tainted history. Even if Github survives and ever gets bought again user trust is so very difficult to rebuild.

      4 users thanked author for this post.
    • #195999 Reply

      anonymous

      What does Microsoft expect to get from GitHub?

      More than likely, to sneakily steal code from open-source developers, eg …
      https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1002696910266773505.html (Thread by @jamiebuilds: “I think it’s time I publicly shared about how Microsoft stole my code and then spit on it. I’d been waiting for them to do something about i […]” 3 days ago)

      • #196006 Reply

        Microfix
        Da Boss

        [sarcasm on] microsoft codescrapers, so that’s where the QA dept went, Github trolling [sarcasm off]

        ********** Win7 x64/x86 | Win8.1 x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

        2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #196009 Reply

      anonymous

      Please excuse my ignorance, but what is GitHub.

    • #196036 Reply

      anonymous

      I can not imagine Microsoft agreeing to keep all the GitHub standing agreements as part of the acquisition. GitHub offers a specific service for developers which is based on sharing. The companies involved with GitHub own the resulting software applications.

      Microsoft wants to leverage their cloud services by offering some of these applications to their massive customer base – a possibly huge business opportunity for MS as well as the application owner. However, when the product becomes a service it is no longer a product. MS will be controlling the service as well as the product’s destiny. The owner may end up contractually bound to MS. I’d assume it would be costly to try to withdraw the product (for whatever reason) from the platform once it gets incorporated into MS customer services.

    • #196044 Reply

      anonymous

      Well, just another technology Microsoft is going to [ruin].

      Microsoft can’t even fix Windows Update after years of trying this and that back and forth.. Even if Windows 1803 is already installed for a month by now, Windows Update won’t stop bothering to install ‘Feature update to Windows 10, version 1803’. It’s just ridiculous and even apes can do better.

    • #196045 Reply

      anonymous
    • #196052 Reply

      GCG1000
      AskWoody Plus

      Short Expectation: $$$.  Long term: $$$.  I hope their business model is geared for the long haul, because the Short Expectation won’t happen overnight!  Many developers will probably sit back and see what happens, or MS  may end up with a bunch of schlock developers looking for a quick buck.  Good luck MS!

    • #196066 Reply

      anonymous

      So this is why Codeplex was left to die?  Makes sense.  I guess if they can’t maintain something themselves they’ll just buy another one.

      Microsoft’s own Open Source commitment has been spotty at its very best.  They’ve only started to play ball because their own proprietary systems have started to collapse.  If I was on github I’d be leaving too, and it’s not due to privacy and datamining concerns (although there’s plenty of that).  It’s due to developer support which will rot away while they try to twist everyone into their direction before eventually dropping it in 10 years.

      Think TechNet, Codeplex, Windows RT, Windows Phone, FoxBase, Nokia, Microsoft Games Division, Microsoft Live Marketplace, etc.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #196521 Reply

        MrJimPhelps
        AskWoody_MVP

        What was the problem with FoxBase? Microsoft polished it up and renamed it FoxPro, and almost overnight acquired the entire dBase userbase. The acquisition of FoxBase was a brilliant and very successful move on Microsoft’s part.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
        • #196522 Reply

          anonymous

          At a Linux forum, on 05 June 2018, mediclaser wrote …

          Back in the 90’s, MS bought FoxPro…one of the best XBASE programming tools. MS improved a lot on it, and it became known as Visual FoxPro (VFP). It was the number one RAD tool for any size business. If you are a small to medium size business, it’s all you need for developing your apps. You don’t need to purchase a database server. And if you decide to migrate your data to a more powerful database like their own MS SQL, you could do it with very little code modification. Also, you don’t need to pay runtime license (or royalty) when you deploy or sell your apps.

          But when M$ realized VFP was making it hard for them to sell their other products to smaller businesses, they killed it just like that…even though it was the number 1 product in that category.

          What made it painful for me personally was VFP made me a “super” developer because of its very useful features. I could create a solution in a matter of minutes, which other developers using other tools would take weeks (if not months) to develop.

          Also, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_FoxPro

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #196069 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody_MVP

      Perhaps Microsoft is trying to change their image.

      And they could be hoping with this move to assert more control over software development in general, then find indirect ways to profit from that control. Indirect profit seems to be the way of the future, though I still don’t believe in it… There’s nothing wrong with good ol’ “pay for something that has value without hidden strings attached“.

      I’m imagining at least some exodus of open source developers who don’t want their software hosted in Microsoft’s domain. Microsoft may want to change their image but they’re still disliked for many of the things they’ve actually done and are still doing.

      Maybe all this will breathe new life into Subversion, which has been my preference over Git all along.

      -Noel

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #196072 Reply

        lurks about
        AskWoody Lounger

        Noel, GitHub is not the only game in town and as you point out there are other version control systems besides git. Git is popular. But what most developers want is solid system whether it is Git, Subversion, Mercurial, or something else. For an open source project, they want an online version control system but who the host is and what the system is relatively unimportant; pick one and move forward. For those using GitHub there are several alternatives that use Git so migrating will be fairly easy.

        This may turn out to be Nadella’s answer to Nokia; a head scratcher of a purchase that will be written down to nothing in a few years. Also, 7.5 billion seems like a massive overvaluation of GitHub.

      • #196112 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody_MVP

        Perhaps Microsoft is trying to change their image.

        Their image is based on their behavior.

        If they want to change their image, the means to that end should be self-evident.  It’s going to take more than a few “we love Linux” statements and other empty gestures here and there to make people forget what they’ve done– and are still doing.  At the very least, stop the abuse of your own customers before trying to persuade people that you’ve changed and that you are no longer abusive! People may have short memories, but they tend to remember things that happened… uh, right now.

        If that’s what they’re up to, it’s reaching a “Baghdad Bob” level of farcicality.

         

        Group "L" (KDE Neon User Edition 5.17.4).

        6 users thanked author for this post.
        • #196361 Reply

          MrJimPhelps
          AskWoody_MVP

          "we love Linux"

          Quite frankly, this scares me a bit. I don’t like the idea of Microsoft putting their hands into the Linux pot. How much will they try to control via copyright and high-powered lawyers?

          Group "L" (Linux Mint)
          with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
          3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #196077 Reply

      mindwarp
      AskWoody Lounger

      I have to admit, my first reaction was a very naughty word, followed by immediately seeing if the main two viewer/helper apps for my favorite game had fled GitHub yet, because I know that’s what I personally would do if I was a dev with a repo there (although in these particular devs’ case, they may be too busy playing our current in-game event ;-D ). That said, considering how many major OSS projects use GitHub at least in some capacity, including Microsoft competitors like Mozilla, and considering Microsoft bad reputation in that sector, this honestly shows how insulated and isolated the decision makers at Microsoft truly are. Otherwise, the backlash as word got out about the sale and the dev exodus would have shown all parties involved that the sale is a bad idea.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #196105 Reply

      Mele20
      AskWoody Lounger

      Yeah it was a thing. You are right that most sites would be polite, but some obscure die hard site owners would block access based on Internet Explorer’s agent string. I do wish that the screen captures had not been lost so I could provide proof.

      I remember that happening. I too went from Netscape to Mozilla Suite and then also Phoenix, Firebird, Firefox. I had problems with many sites especially banking.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #196125 Reply

      geekdom
      AskWoody Plus

      Market share.

      Group G{ot backup} TestBeta On hiatus.
      Win7Pro · x64 · SP1 · i3-3220 · RAM 8GB · Firefox: uBlock Origin - NoScript · HDD · Canon Printer · Microsoft Security Essentials · Windows: Backup - System Image - Rescue Disk - Firewall
    • #196119 Reply

      anonymous

      There has been some ink in the last few hours about this being the best solution for GitHub because any other buyer would have been a lot worse. It has to be understood that there was no competing offers for GitHub. Microsoft was the only company that made an offer to buy GitHub.

      Those considered as possible buyers never showed any interest in buying GitHub.

      The so-called contenders: the garlic garlands came out for Oracle and Disney (trust issues), Google is closed and suffers from acute kleptomania, Apple and IBM, though big in R+D (too inwardly focused) and Red Hat having the DNA but not likely to come up with $7.5 billion. Intel’s management style too toxic. Of course Microsoft have many of the same ‘qualities’ that all of these companies were disqualified for, but Microsoft turned out to be the best fit.

      It really comes down to a desire to want to host this site, deep pockets and a business plan.

      • #196293 Reply

        anonymous

        Google already has code.google.com so probably would have been interested. Maybe MS wants to compete with Google in this area?

        • #196303 Reply

          anonymous

          I am surprised that Amazon did not show more interest in GitHub. I read that Google did show some interest not too long ago but the management at GitHub preferred Microsoft.

    • #196136 Reply

      radosuaf
      AskWoody Lounger

      There is a PWA concept floating in the Web. Apps basically working on each platform. Google already transferring their services to PWA. And then there’s MS Windows 10 Mobile that is lacking apps. And Edge that is supporting PWAs in the newest version. You’d think that with very little effort you could port EdgeHTML 17 to Windows 10 Mobile and give users and developers an opportunity to use and create apps for the platform and show that you care at least a bit about your loyal customers.

      I asked Brandon LeBlanc on Twitter about this specifically. His answer: “Unfortunately there are no plans for this. Sorry.”

      That’s MS approach towards developers in a nutshell.

      MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Aorus Radeon RX 570 4GB * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1909 64-bit
      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #196138 Reply

      gkarasik
      AskWoody Plus

      Since its acquisition of 86-DOS. which it rebranded and resold to IBM, Microsoft has been a marketing–or more accurately a re-marketing–company, not the technology company it likes to portray itself as. Marketing is it’s DNA, a destiny Microsoft has tried mightily to escape. As a marketing company, it has historically purchased the innovations of others and, after tweaking them to make them worse, resold them. In its latest reinvention of itself as a cloud-based-services company Microsoft wants to demonstrate–for marketing/branding purposes–that it has an application ecosystem like Apple’s. Thus GitHub with its built-in developer community that Microsoft wants to leverage. As developers have in Microsoft’s past reinventions and as they will in its future reinventions, some will fervently cleave unto the new Microsoft, some will jump aboard for the ride, and some will turn their backs. And like previous Microsoft reinventions, this one will coast along for a while on its own momentum, gradually lose steam (and revenue), and give way to a new reinvention.

      Move along. Nothing to see here folks. At least nothing new.

      GaryK

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #196909 Reply

      Kirsty
      Da Boss

      Microsoft Buys GitHub: The Linux Foundation’s Reaction
      By Jim Zemlin | June 7, 2018

       
      This week Microsoft announced that it is purchasing GitHub for $7.5 billion in stock. I waited for a few days to write up my thoughts because this is something that deserves some thoughtful reflection. The bottom line: This is pretty good news for the world of Open Source and we should celebrate Microsoft’s smart move. But before we get to that, it’s worth noting that I have been working in this dynamic space for many years and the differing reactions to the announcement reminded me of a few things:

       
      Read the full article here

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #196935 Reply

        anonymous
      • #196940 Reply

        Elly
        AskWoody MVP

        From the article, “Their (Microsoft’s) commitment to open source has been active for years.”

        Does that mean they will open source Windows XP and Windows 7, so that the open source community can maintain these ‘old’ operating systems that Microsoft has or will soon abandon? I would be thrilled! At the same time, I’m not holding my breath…

        Win 7 Home, 64 bit, Group B

      • #196944 Reply

        OscarCP
        AskWoody Plus

        Jim Zemlin: “Open source developers changed our world. Microsoft gets that, which is why they purchased GitHub. I for one am excited to see the improvements they’ll make and will be shocked if Nat were to screw it up (no pressure Nat!).

        Satya Nadella: “No one can possibly pressure me, nor can I possible screw up anything, Jim:   I am MS!”

         

        Windows 7 Professional, SP1, x64 Group B & macOS + Linux (Mint) => Win7 Group W + Mac&Lx

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