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  • What I’ve Seen with Windows Update, So Far

    Posted on jayinalaska Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 10 Windows 10 version 1903 – May 2019 Update What I’ve Seen with Windows Update, So Far

    Topic Resolution: Not a Question

    This topic contains 7 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by

     Alex5723 2 days, 4 hours ago.

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    • #1837610 Reply

      jayinalaska
      AskWoody Plus

      I did a clean install of 1903 over the weekend. I use Win 10 Pro. Because I don’t like to get drivers from Windows Update, I did the install disconnected from the internet. Before reconnecting, I use the Group Policy editor to disable driver updates via Windows Update.

      The first thing I noticed when I opened Windows Update was a wall of red text about missing needed updates, but also being told the Windows had checked for updates. I wasn’t sure if Windows Update was broken or not, so I went ahead and ran its troubleshooter. That found and fix a problem (sorry, I didn’t do a screenshot and I don’t remember what it said it fixed).

      When I popped back into Windows Update, it was working on three updates: KB4495620, KB4497332, and KB4497936. These were the 2019-05 cumulative update for .NET 4.8, the 2019-05 security update for Flash, and a 2019-95 cumulative update for 1903, respectively. While those were processing, I popped into the “Advanced options”. I had both the “Defer” settings, the “Pause” setting (via selecting a date), but no ability to choose a release track. I turned on the “Receive updates for other Microsoft products…” at this time. A question I have here is why were these auto-installing? I didn’t have any option to delay these. Is that an artifact of running the troubleshooter?

      When the three updates were done, I manually restarted my PC to apply them.

      I don’t remember how much time elapsed before I popped back into Windows Update again. It might have been right after the reboot. It was certainly on the same day. When I did, I noticed I was being offered KB4497935, another 2019-05 cumulative update for 1903. But, this update was in a section labeled, “Additional updates available” and there was a “Download and install” link at the bottom of the section. Windows Update said I was “up to date”. I clicked the link and, after the update was installed, I rebooted the PC again.

      When the machine came back this time, I know I popped back into Windows Update immediately. The KB4497935 update was still being offered. I looked in the installation history and it said KB4497935 was installed. I did not click the link again.

      That was all on Sunday. On Monday, after I got home, I went into Windows Update to set the Quality update deferral option to 15 days, since I had forgotten to do that on Sunday. To my surprise, when I got into the Advanced options section, there was no longer any option to defer either Quality or Feature updates. See the “No defer or feature option” image. I’m certain both those options were still there Sunday after I finished all of the updates. Also, to my surprise, but more pleasantly, I was no longer being offered the KB4497935 update and my history said it was still installed.

      I opened up the Group Policy editor and found that settings still exist there to set deferral options for both Quality and Feature updates. As far as I can tell, the defer Quality update options here are unchanged from 1809. See the “Group policy defer quality updates” image. The defer Feature update settings are different and there’s a fairly clear explanation of how things changed from 1809 to 1903. See the “Group policy defer feature updates” image.

      Because I wanted to see if I would get an “Additional updates available” section with “Download and install” link(s) for the 2019-06 cumulative updates, I did not configure the Quality update deferral options in the Group Policy editor. I haven’t changed the Feature update settings there either, yet.

      Today, once I got home from work and logged in, I monitored Windows Update. I initially had nothing new to see, but eventually, I saw what you can see in the “2019-06 cumulative update” image.

      I’ve had a little strange behavior (the first three updates auto-installing and the defer options disappearing from the “Advanced options”. Otherwise, while it’s only one month and I’m only one user, it looks like Microsoft is keeping their promise to give us more control over the Windows Update experience. Or, at least for Pro users. (I don’t have any PCs running the Home edition.) I have not clicked the “Download and install” link. I’m not sure how long I’ll last before I do click it. I will try to wait until Woody gives us the all-clear for June. I will report back here on which happens first: I click the link or Windows installs the software for me.

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      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1838627 Reply

      jayinalaska
      AskWoody Plus

      I made a number of mistakes in my original post, for which I apologize. I’m not a note taker, this is all from memory, and I was doing other things while both checking on Windows Update and writing the post. I offer that as an explanation, not an excuse.  Here’s is a quick start on some corrections:

      • Before the deferral options disappeared, I did actually change them in Windows Update. I know this because I looked in the registry at Computer\HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UpdatePolicy\PolicyState and I see that Quality and Feature update deferrals are active with Quality set to 15 days and Feature set to 90 days. These options no longer appear in Advanced options, so I can’t undo them at the moment without editing the registry or using the Group Policy editor. I should probably report this as a bug. I unfortunately don’t know how quickly the deferral options disappeared after I set them on Sunday. I don’t think I checked Windows Update again until Monday and they were gone then.
      • The update I’m being shown currently is not the 2019-06 cumulative update. It’s still the KB4497935 update from May, that I already installed and Windows Update says I installed. I don’t know how I managed to misread that every time I looked at it on Tuesday, both on my screen and on the screen capture I took of it.
      • My conclusion paragraph is not valid anymore.

      What I think I know now:

      • The 1903 Windows Update interface is buggy.
      • I can’t say with any certainty that I have more control over updates in 1903. The “Download and install” link on the one that I’m still being offered is encouraging.
      • The only good part I see is my deferral options are being honored at the moment. I’m not being offered any June updates, which is as it should be since I’ve set the deferral to 15 days.

      Again, my apologies for the mistakes.

      • #1838650 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        The disappearance of the deferral settings for Feature and Quality Updates in the GUI is discussed in this thread (and elsewhere, both on this site and others). You are, by far, not the only one experiencing it. We have found that it occurs if you set a deferral value, and the value you set doesn’t matter, only that you set it.

        Some people are seeing the “download and install” section, some are not.

        We are basically waiting to see if Microsoft recognizes the change, and whether it was intentional on their part or not. If it is intentional, and the only way to change the settings is through the Registry, then they have moved the choices out of many common user’s reach and basically given them less control over updates rather than more.

    • #1839542 Reply

      Smithdoor
      AskWoody Lounger

      I install Windows 10 v1903 on June 2 2019

      No errors just ran great

      I also install Autocad 2000LT works great

      I did change the window color using Regedit

      Dave

       

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    • #1841652 Reply

      jayinalaska
      AskWoody Plus

      6/13/2019 Update

      Summary

      • Setting either deferral option to a non zero value will make that option disappear from the Advanced Options screen.
      • I was offered several C++ Redistributable updates. They did not auto install. They all installed after I clicked a “Download” button.
      • I’m still being offered KB4497935 in a section with a “Download and install now” link.
      • I have Quality Update deferral set to 15 days and I have not yet been offered any June updates.

      Discussion

      This will deal with the disappearing deferral options and what I think I’ve learned. I spent most of yesterday evening trying various things to see if I could get the deferral options to reappear.

      I first started out by using the Local Group Policy Editor and used that to set both deferral values back to 0. After a reboot, both the options were visible again, but of course both were grayed out because of the group policy. I then went back into the Group Policy Editor and changed the settings back to “Not Configured.” Unfortunately, after another reboot, the options were still grayed out and the corresponding group policy settings were still being shown as active from the “View configured update policies” link. (I think this is a “feature” of group policy.) And, the values were now what I had set them to originally: 15 and 90 days.

      At this point, I decided a little registry editing might be needed. In some on line research I had done, I discovered that there are actually two registry keys were Windows Update policies get written. The first is the one I mentioned up-thread (HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UpdatePolicy\PolicyState). The other is HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\WindowsUpdate\UX\Settings.

      The “PolicyState” key has two “Defer” properties (one for Quality updates, the other for Feature updates) that are set to 0 if not deferring or 1 to defer. If either property is set to 1 then an additional property for the deferral type appears which sets the number of days. There is also a property “IsDeferralsActive” which gets set to 1 if either deferral option is active and is 0 otherwise.

      The “UX\Settings” key has two “Defer” properties which are the number of days for each deferral type. I went through and set all the deferral properties to 0. I then rebooted.

      When I got back into the Advanced Options page, the settings were still visible, they were now set to 0, and Windows Update still thought they were configured by group policy. I did some more on line research and came across a page at The Windows Club website for how to totally reset the group policy registry. I used the commands under option 3 and rebooted.

      And, there was still no change. Then, I realized I didn’t actually run the gpupdate /force command and, from experience at work, I’ve learned that it sometimes takes two or three reboots to force group policy changes to take effect, I rebooted again. This time, success, both deferral options were visible, both were set to 0, Windows Update had no “View configured update policies” link, and I could change either setting.

      I rebooted again to see if anything would change. Nothing did. I set the Quality Update deferral value back to 15 and left the Feature Update deferral value at 0. My hypothesis was this would keep both options visible because everything I had read (here and elsewhere on line) suggested it was changing the Feature Update value to non zero that makes them both disappear.

      I rebooted the machine two more times. After each reboot, both options were still visible and both had the values I had last left them with: 15 and 0. I was feeling pretty good and actually thought I had come up with a decent work-around while hoping Microsoft would fix this behavior before the fall Feature Update became available.

      I should have known better. When I logged on this evening and went into Advanced Options, the Quality Update deferral option was missing. The set-to-0 Feature Update deferral option was still visible.

      This is the basis for my conclusion that setting either option to 0 will make that option disappear from the Advanced Options page. But, it puzzled me that the Quality Update deferral option didn’t disappear yesterday when I changed it to 15 days again. Also, I’m pretty sure that the options didn’t immediately disappear when I initially changed them several days ago.

      My hypothesis is the disappearing act is triggered by Windows Update actually checking for updates. There’s a scheduled task that runs Windows Update roughly every 24 hours. My update time has been just after 6:00 PM all week. I don’t leave the computer on when I’m not using it. I put it into sleep mode. Yesterday, my computer had done its daily check before I started all of my experimenting. Today, I was a little later at work than normal and I didn’t get on my computer until a little after 7:00 PM. I didn’t immediately check Windows Update, but it wasn’t more than 10 minutes after I logged on before I did. By that time, today’s update check had happened and finished and the Quality Update setting was missing.

      If the June updates don’t look like they’re causing any major problems, then sometime next week I’ll go back into the registry and set all the deferral options back to 0 again. If my hypothesis is correct, the next time Windows Update runs after that, I should see the Quality Update deferral option back again. It will also be interesting to see if the June updates auto-install or if they’ll be presented in the section with the “Download and install now” link.

      Of course, all of this is just an academic exercise. No one should have to edit the registry to adjust any important options like these. I hope Microsoft gets over their schizophrenia about where they’re going with Windows Update sooner rather than later and decide how much control they’re going to condescend to give us all.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #1841742 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      disappearing deferral

      I got the same disappearing deferral act with Windows 10 1809 Pro (#1761010) after installing some May 2019 updates. Somehow, after fiddling with GPEdit I got them miraculously back

      • #1841757 Reply

        Paul T
        AskWoody MVP

        Alex, we need to know what you did to get them back.

        cheers, Paul

    • #1842047 Reply

      Alex5723
      AskWoody Plus

      Alex, we need to know what you did to get them back.

      cheers, Paul

      Sorry, don’t remember exactly. Wish I could.

      I remember setting days deferrals in GPEdit in Windows Update for Business which didn’t help.
      Removed the settings and than re-enabled option 2 in Windows Update – Configure Automatic Updates .
      After that my deferral re-appeared.
      That was for 1809. I seems 1903 is another game.

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