What we know about KB 3150513

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On March 15, the Thursday after Patch Tuesday, Microsoft re-re-released KB 3150513. It’s innocuously titled “Latest compatibility definition update fo
[See the full post at: What we know about KB 3150513]

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JDeC, Elly, abbodi86, lizzytish, Noel Carboni, Pepsiboy

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This utter arrogance and lack of respect, is what drives people to not update at all. Most people I talk to have not allowed Windows to update in a very long time. Welcome to club B or C.

People are being driven to understand that Windows Update is a bad thing, a risky thing. Most conclude without a great deal of consideration that they’d rather just not risk Microsoft’s malware. The conclusion (albeit without a lot of thought) is that the risk of Microsoft Malware is much greater than the risk of not installing security patches.

CT

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Steve, PKCano, JDeC, Elly, walker, Bill C., JohnW, woody, David F, PhotM

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Just some data points:

1. On my Windows 7 systems I have never allowed the installation of KB2952664, going all the way back. I have never been offered KB3150513 on those systems.

2. On my main Windows 8.1 workstation I have never allowed the installation of KB2976978 (KB2952664’s brother). I have never been offered KB3150513 on that system.

3. On my Windows 8.1 test VM I allowed the installation of KB2976978 back in April 2016 to see what it would do. Then in May 2016 I was offered and installed KB3150513. I have not accepted a later KB2976978 since then, and I have not been offered KB3150513 again.

Canadian Tech wrote:

People are being driven to understand that Windows Update is a bad thing, a risky thing.

Thing is, it has always been a risky thing to install updates. A perfectly reliable system could be destabilized, and occasionally it actually happened. But it was a manageable risk since we got some indication of what was in the updates, and could decide for ourselves whether specific updates were worth the risk.

People who care about risk need control over when and how updates happen, and they need to know what’s in the updates they’re making decisions about.

Why? Because Microsoft isn’t perfect, and can never be perfect.

Most folks know Windows Updates often patch faults people haven’t experienced yet, and close off security holes, so they offer the promise of future stability. Many of us have kept up with updates for that reason.

It’s when Microsoft chose to start using the Windows Update system to do other things – specifically to further their business goals – without direct benefit to the user that the whole thing starts to go wrong, because let’s be frank – it smells of malware.

I have personally kept up with updates (though on a bit of delay) rigorously through my entire career, across many machines. Yet in mid 2016 – for the first time ever – I chose to STOP updating one of my Windows 7 systems, (which serves a particular, stable purpose as a file server and isn’t interactively used). Why? Because it was stable, and in light of GWX and the fact that Microsoft no longer tests or documents things as well as they once did I could simply no longer adequately manage the risk. It was not that the risk was unacceptably large, it was that I couldn’t even characterize it!

I’m still (reluctantly, and only after careful vetting) updating my main Windows 8.1 workstation, but I have hidden some updates that I obviously don’t want and plan to continue to do so should more Microsoft malware be detected in them.

And they’re not going to work around this for me by not documenting their update contents! Not saying what’s in there is tantamount to saying there’s something bad in there we don’t want you to know about. Um, no thanks.

This recent “cumulative” update BS is leading me to feel that the risk is becoming unmanageable for my workstation too. I’ve not updated this month and I’m not at all sure whether I’ll ever allow the March updates into my critical Windows 8.1 system even after the dust settles on currently known problems.

It’s been an egregiously bad move by Microsoft to corrupt the integrity of their Windows Update ecosystem by hiding what they’re doing and repurposing it to benefit themselves!

Let’s never forget why there’s a Windows Update process in the first place: They have never delivered software that’s “good enough” out of the box, but with the promise that they’ll fix it later we’ve been willing to buy it.

That doesn’t really fit with it being forced on people, now does it?

-Noel

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Steve, JDeC, zero2dash, walker, Bill C., JohnW, samak, LH, dononline, GoneToPlaid, lizzytish, Elly, David F, ryegrass, Canadian Tech, SueW, PhotM

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One additional though, Noel, Windows 7 has had NINE years of fixing the flaws. I suspect that this is a law of diminishing returns situation. By now, they surely must have fixed the vast majority of the issues that were flaws in the original OS. (surely this applies to XP as well) That is what leads to your conclusion and mine that Win7 is now a stable, predictable, reliable OS. I add further that because so much has already been done, the risk of destabilizing is greater than the risk of not applying further updates.

I should tell you that very few of my 150 client Win7 systems have seen an updated since September. The result has been a dramatic reduction of demand for my help. Note well, no updates has resulted in greater stability.

I am very appreciative of Pkcano’s process for applying Security-only updates. It is vastly too complex for me to ask my clients to perform. However, I have now taken on the task of performing that process on client PCs each time I have an opportunity to remotely access them. I am doing the updates for them. I am not sure this is something that can go on for long, but I am taking the opportunity to do it.

CT

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JDeC, walker, Noel Carboni, Elly

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Canadian Tech wrote:

… years of fixing the flaws.

Yes indeed. And coming up on 4 years for Windows 8.1. I recently had to shut down a 2 month uptime streak because of a power failure that exceeded my UPS capacity. I’m just not having any OS problems that need fixing. This is that magical time when the OS is stable and we get to concentrate on our work.

Trouble is, Windows 10 seems destined not to be allowed to get to this level of stability, and that’s one of several reasons why I didn’t upgrade my workstation.

My deepest worry is that if the OS isn’t stable – i.e., is always changing – then people will just not develop big, serious applications for it. This OS needs to be stable for years so that applications can be developed then have some time for profitable sales.

-Noel

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Noel Carboni wrote:

My deepest worry is that if the OS isn’t stable – i.e., is always changing – then people will just not develop big, serious applications for it.

Ah, it’s not about serious applications anymore, it’s all about UWP. 2.99 USD apps that will add funny effects to your Instagram photos or so.

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Noel Carboni

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Hello Noel,

Your rant absolutely hits the nail on the head. I both thanked you and voted you up for your post since your remarks match both what I have observed and how I feel about Microsoft’s behavior over the past two to three years.

My observations are that Windows Update rapidly started going downhill after Windows 8 was released. Sinofsky got the boot less than two weeks after Windows 8 was released, and now we have Nadella who thinks that Microsoft not only physically owns every computer which runs Windows, but also thinks that they can do whatever they want on those computers which they in fact do not own — including disabling computer hardware.

Eh…I could rant some more, yet doing so likely would trigger a firestorm of other rants.

Thank you again for your really good post.

Best regards,

–GoneToPlaid

 

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Steve, walker, Elly, Noel Carboni, PhotM

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Though I am not sad to see Sinofsky go, he was a sacrificial lamb to deflect the attention off of the VP’s truly responsible above him. MS structure was quite different back then and I don’t remember the order now.

Terry Myerson (I know spelling) is the VP that is your enemy now, even more than Nadella, about thinking he owns all PC’s.

However, Nadella is the top of the heap, of plaussible deniability?????…… O.o 😥

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johnf, Noel Carboni

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Years from now, when Harvard is constructing and selecting new business cases, the Microsoft story will be studied as yet another case of a very large success story that had that success go to its head and then led itself to self-destruction.

If you study the stories of so many failures like this, you can see the patterns. Microsoft management is following that process as if it was a management handbook.

One of the most obvious is the loss of focus on customers. To say the least, Microsoft has yet to meet a customer that it could not ignore completely.

CT

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SueW, JohnW, samak, PhotM

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Canadian Tech wrote:

Years from now, when Harvard is constructing and selecting new business cases, the Microsoft story will be studied as yet another case of a very large success story that had that success go to its head and then led itself to self-destruction.

CT, doesn’t something smell fishy about that?  MS has certainly had moments of arrogance in the past, but it has never been as blithely stupid as it appears to be right now.  Even though MS has had a monopoly on the desktop OS for a long time, they’ve never been this hostile or aggressive toward their own customers before.  Their competitors, surely, but not their customers.

Now we have the “new Microsoft,” which is being hailed by many in the tech press as a kindler, gentler MS, even as it boxes the ears of its own customers on nearly a daily basis.  Do the customers that have helped build MS into the success it is today mean less than the competitors who have tried to take Microsoft’s success for themselves?  You’d have to conclude that they are if you’re watching all of this, and it brings up a question that begs for an answer: Why?

The only conclusion I’ve been able to reach is that in the “mobile first, cloud first” world, Windows users (especially the non-enterprise ones) are no longer seen as Microsoft’s customers.  Not the ones that matter, anyway. The ones that matter are the customers of Microsoft’s cloud services, and they are not necessarily running Windows anymore.

Back when MS was mainly a software company, MS wanted everyone possible to be on the Windows platform.  A lot of their non-Windows software and services were aimed more toward promoting the Windows brand and platform than in making piles of money in and of themselves.  The Windows horse was pulling the services cart, so to speak, and the cart’s purpose was always to serve the horse.

Now we observe something else.  Microsoft is embracing platforms it once shunned; it will no longer be necessary to run Windows to get the Microsoft services.  Why is MS being so nice to its competitors when it’s always been a complete j*** to them before?

What if it’s not?

What if the “competitors” it is supposedly being nice to are the customers now?  Then it all makes sense again.  MS never stopped being nice to its customers… they just changed which set of people it considers its customers. 

Being nice to their former competitors is only half of the change, though.  Why have they suddenly started being so hostile to their long-standing customers?  They cannot possibly be as tone-deaf as it would require to do what they are doing and think they will keep their Windows customer base long term.  In the short term, people will certainly keep using the consumer-hostile Windows 10.  They will grumble and complain, but they will keep using it… but in the backs of their minds, they will always be keeping a tally of the times Microsoft has willfully and intentionally acted to harm them, and that tally will build quickly as MS ratchets up the abuse.

MS knows that Google is breathing hard upon their necks, and that’s setting up a perfect storm for a mass migration away from Windows if all of the planets line up just right.  Why would they risk this just for some short-term cash from all the new and creative ways they are “monetizing” Windows?

The only thing I can think of is that MS wants to alienate its Windows customers.  Reportedly, they only get ~10% of their revenue from Windows, and that’s undoubtedly forecast to fall still more. Microsoft is about the cloud now, and the legacy customers are more or less dead weight. Maintaining Windows requires a massive amount of money, and if it is only marginally profitable, it would be easy to conclude that MS would think it could make more from those employees if they were working on more lucrative projects.

MS could be rid of its Windows burden cleanly if it took a page from the book of one of their victims– Netscape.  They could release the Windows source into the open-source community and wash their hands of the whole thing.  This is Microsoft we’re talking about, though, and they’re not going to just give it away… not when they have a monopoly that they’ve never fully cashed out on yet.  They can use that monopoly to milk their formerly valued customers for all they are worth, right up until the point that the customers get fed up and leave despite the barriers.  That will be the point when the value of the monopoly and the residual value of Windows will have been fully liquidated, and all that will be left over is a deflated husk.

The really neat thing about this strategy is that the loss of the Windows platform and the omnipresence of MS cloud service frontends built into Windows will undoubtedly result in many of those customers moving into the MS cloud to keep doing (more or less) what they used to do with regular Windows.  Abuse your customers, take them for every dime they have, and the result is that they sign on to your new services so they can keep paying you money, this time so that you can hold all of their programs and data ransom!

If this is what MS is doing, those of us that are trying to get Microsoft’s attention with our refusal to upgrade to 10 and our highlighting of what we think MS needs to fix in Windows (and we know they’re watching; this much is given) will inevitably fail, since that strategy hinges upon the idea that MS actually wants us as OS customers in a general sense, not just that they are trying to push us into 10 so that they can concentrate their alternate milking sessions and savage beatings more efficiently before we jump ship.

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Steve, walker, Noel Carboni, hansR, fp

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Couldn’t have said better myself.

But this must be put in context: America has unleasehed corporations with uncontrolled power and they are now destroying society. They are now in both economic and political control with a acquiescing public that they are making sure is uneducated and uninformed. You ain’t seen nothing yet.

What MS is doing with Windows to its users the oligarchy is doing with everything else to the public. I’m pretty sure this is being dismissed as exaggeration, but only the oblivious is blind to reality.

 

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ryegrass

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I certainly sense some reality in what you have described, Ascaris.

-Noel

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Ascaris, you are being far too generous to think Microsoft has actually thought about its Windows customers. Windows is assumed to be a closed product that the public will use forever. Microsoft just considers Windows to be in the bank, literally.

I think the real problem is time scale. I very much doubt anything much beyond a year or two is thought of as on the horizon. This is the common problem in most all corporations today. Focus is on the stock price this quarter or maybe even as far out as the end of the year.

Microsoft is mistaken to consider Windows unimportant. It is the basis of the Microsoft business. Take away that stubbornly faithful customer base, and Microsoft would be a mere memory. I agree with you that they consider Windows to be an unprofitable business. But, they are making a serious mistake, long term. Which of course is not in their horizon.

Sit back and think about businesses (in any field) which you consider successful. Ones that you would do business with. I am pretty sure the ones in your list would be the ones that have a complete focus on customers. Some examples: Costco, Apple, Nordstrom.

Although I loathe the controls and limitations that come with Apple devices, I know that if I buy their product, they will service it very well. Stories abound about people who took their Apple device to an Apple store and came away with a feeling they had been helped.

Microsoft is seeking to gain that same control and ability to limit its customers, but has no idea how to even spell c u s t o m e r. That is probably why my next computer or smart phone will likely be an Apple.

CT

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Noel Carboni

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I could not agree more with your thought process regarding the WU ecosystem. I also run W8.1 Enterprise on my critical production system and the system is dedicated to sensitive financial trading and consulting activities that demand security, stability and privacy  as core system attributes. Unfortunately MS is eroding my ability to preserve and monitor the system’s ongoing ability to adequately meet those critical mission attributes. I cannot reasonably consider a migration to W10 because it is fundamentally unpredictable with new builds in constant release. MS has become a less reliable partner in my computing requirements and we can only hope that this situation will improve going forward. However, we should all understand that “hope is not a strategy” and be prepared to act accordingly. Near term, that to me implies being extremely defensive regarding updating currently stable and productive systems. Thank you for your well-reasoned comments on how you are dealing with the current environment.

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Noel Carboni

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From another Canadian, I could not agree more!!!

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1. Tower Totals: 2xSSD ~512GB, 2xHHD 20 TB, Memory 32GB

SSDs: 6xOS Partitions, 2xW8.1 Main & Test, 2x10.0 Test, Pro, x64

CPU i7 2600 K, SandyBridge/CougarPoint, 4 cores, 8 Threads, 3.4 GHz
Graphics Radeon RX 580, RX 580 ONLY Over Clocked
More perishable

2xMonitors Asus DVI, Sony 55" UHD TV HDMI

1. NUC 5i7 2cores, 4 Thread, Memory 8GB, 3.1 GHz, M2SSD 140GB
1xOS W8.1 Pro, NAS Dependent, Same Sony above.

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Nice summary 🙂

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woody

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Woody,
It just sounds to me like MS is trying harder to FORCE their telemetry trash down our throats again.
My check for updates this morning shows KB3150513 is available with a size of 1.4mb. Time to avoid, for now, and possibly forever. My 2 cents.

Dave

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On Windows 7 systems, KB3150513 only shows up in Windows Update if you have the infamous KB2952664 installed.

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GoneToPlaid wrote:

On Windows 7 systems, KB3150513 only shows up in Windows Update if you have the infamous KB2952664 installed.

Well, on mine KB2952664 is NOT installed (and will not be) and this morning KB3150513 showed up.

Dave

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Check your history again. It was in the March updates AGAIN

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walker

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If you’re ever unsure of what updates you have installed, or when they were installed, the following command (executed in an elevated CMD window) will give you a nice summary in the form of a textual report:

WMIC qfe list

You can, of course, redirect the output to a file that you can then open in NotePad et. al. For example:

WMIC qfe list >UpdateReport.txt

-Noel

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dpwoodpecker, Steve, Canadian Tech, SueW, MikeFromMarkham

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Newer versions of the 3 files in KB3150513 are included in KB2952664 (Win 7 SP1) and KB2976978 (Win 8 and 8.1). That’s why KB3150513 hasn’t been updated recently for Win 7, 8, or 8.1. For Windows 7, these files help specify what telemetry is collected by the task that is created by the installation of KB2952664. Much more info for Windows 7 is at https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/care-to-join-a-win7-snooping-test/.

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Should we all buy Ryzens and Kaby Lakes now? 🙂

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Thanks for reminding me why I still keep GWX Control Panel running!

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The tool has no effect or handle KB2952664/KB3150513

GWX is dead for good, so should its prevention tools 🙂

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PKCano, ch100, woody

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Except that I am still getting Wn10 file alerts from GWXCP and nobody has been able to figure out why. And the author does not respond.

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It’s easier to remove it than waiting for uncertain answer

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walker, PKCano

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I am not clear why I should uninstall when it issues alerts. You are assuming that the alerts are flukes and they may well be, but what if they are not? As long as there is no explanation for it, better safe than sorry.

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My concern isn’t so much about the recent update policy from Microsoft (since I’m in group B with automatic updates turned off and have older security updates archived), but rather that the next logical step is to prevent Windows 7 from activating at all on systems with newer hardware such as Ryzen.

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I don’t understand why this is important. New systems cannot be bought with anything other than Win10. 6th gen processors run Win7 just fine. It is the new OEM systems that are/will be coming with those 7th and 8th gen processors.

CT

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ch100

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It’s important, at least to me, because I would like to upgrade my aging 2600K system (not everyone buys a new system).  I have a fairly large investment in Windows software which would involve its replacement, or a fair amount of time getting it to work on a Linux system with Wine or CrossOver.  I won’t be using Windows 10 primarily due to its forced updates. as any fixes, customizations, or changes made by me can be fully reversed by Microsoft  at any time.

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johnf

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Canadian Tech wrote:

I don’t understand why this is important. New systems cannot be bought with anything other than Win10.

I would kindly like to note that there are people that are building their own computers (just like me) – and they do it for freedom of choice. IBM PC platform was built around freedom of choice – IBM published their concept freely to everybody so that anyone could design and sell compatible hardware. Then there was Windows 95 that combined it with software compatibility. This is something Commodore (C64 or Amiga) and Apple never had – and the basis of PC success.

I bought mainboard, memory and CPU for my computer to replace the old ones this week. Since I want to run my system on 8.1, I was forced to pick Skylake.

And, for that matter, you can have a brand new Lenovo Kaby Lake laptop shipped with Windows 7 Pro out of the box (P51, P51s, P71).

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May I suggest the i5-6600 as a really good fast processor?

CT

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ch100

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Canadian Tech wrote:

May I suggest the i5-6600 as a really good fast processor?

It is – still, I wouldn’t like Microsoft to decide which CPU should I buy. i5-6600 is a good one, but a bit too expensive. I settled for i5-6402p :).

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abbodi86 wrote:

The tool has no effect or handle KB2952664/KB3150513 GWX is dead for good, so should its prevention tools

I’m not suggesting that GWX Control Panel does anything for those updates, rather that those updates remind us that Microsoft are still up to their tricks and therefore keeping that tool still running with no effect on performance or other ill-effect is doing no harm whatsoever and just may one day do some good. I have yet to see a good reason not to keep it.

Sure we can claim that Microsoft wouldn’t go down the same GWX route the next time, but it’s been a long time since they last did anything remotely logical or gave any hint of a suggestion that they had learnt any lessons from the recent past. All the evidence is that they haven’t changed at all. Indeed, the whole basis of this article is that they’re still re-re-releasing the same old c***!

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lizzytish, samak

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If this update is about validating what updates you have in order to update the device to the Creator build or something else. Why is it that Windows Update can’t do this already? I sometimes get the feeling Microsoft makes up stuff in these update release to explain away what they are really meant to do. It doesn’t help Microsoft trust worthiness with users to offer vague and disconnected answers to updates and issues regarding them . The worse Microsoft gets the more people question their motives. I really don’t see how this helps get users to adopt Windows 10? When you lose people’s trust in what you are doing they will question everything.

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Noel Carboni, woody, lizzytish

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You’re absolutely right on all counts.

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I installed KB2952664 on my Win7 computer and would like to know if I should uninstall it?

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Without a doubt, YES

CT

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walker

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UPDATE: More info in this InfoWorld Woody on Windows.

Woody, the link is to KB3035583 GWX from April 6th 2015? !

Link should be to:

http://www.infoworld.com/article/3182744/microsoft-windows/mystery-update-kb-3150513-makes-yet-another-reappearance.html

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Cesar, woody

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Yep, started reading it and muttered “Oh for the love of God! Not again…” and the blood pressure and heart rate soared. 🙂

Don’t scare us like that, Woody! 🙂

 

Hanlon's Razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.

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Microfix

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LOL I was the same until I seen the date published <phew!> 🙂

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Thanks!

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I’m guessing this KB3150513 will be a “hide” in the wushowhide tool come MS-DEFCON  3 or higher?

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Is this the first time that it will be pushed to 1607 users? I checked the list of installed updates on my 1607 machine, and I don’t see KB3150513. Does this mean that it’s not installed on the machine?

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11th November 2018 on Win 7 Pro x64

I just got offered this KB3150513 as an update (not optional).

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/3150513/latest-compatibility-definition-update-for-windows

Only supposed to be offered if you already have KB2952664 installed. I haven’t, every time that one comes up again and again I hide it. Crafty beggars trying to sneak this one in tsss…

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Beginning with the 2018-09 Preview Rollup and continuing with the 2018-10 Quality Security Monthly Rollup, KB2952664 (or its functionality) has been baked into the cumulative Rollups. It is no longer a separate patch and it cannot be uninstalled separately.

So, if you have installed the October 2018 Rollup, you have installed KB2952664 (or its functionality). That is why you are being offered KB3150513. There are multiple discussions about this in the October/November 2018 topics on the main blog.

Feel free to hide KB3150513!

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Are you sure this is the case?
I am being offered KB2952664 separately – no version installed on this machine – but not KB3150513.
I remember reading somewhere a post from @abbodi86 saying that KB2952664 (or its functionality) will be included in the October 2018 CU, but as far as I can tell, the ‘original’ (latest version) KB2952664 is still being offered separately.

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@abbodi86 reported about a month ago that the KB2952664 functionality had been added to the 2018-09 Preview Rollup and all that followed it.

None of my Win7/8.1 machines have EVER had KB2952664/KB2976978 installed, from back in the days when we first started seeing MS’s attempt at telemetry (GWX days). There is no evidence of the individual patches in the installed updates on any of the machines. The last individual releases of the two patches remain in the “hidden updates,” so it would appear they have not been superceded.

Yet, after installing the Oct Rollups, I am being offered KB3150513 on all of the machines. That alone would be evidence to the presence of the two patches (or their functionality). But other evidence is in the activation of the associated  Scheduled Tasks, which have been disabled forever on my machines.

I am using @abbodi86 ‘s script to neutralize the effects now of that which I had manually neutralized before.

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ch100, Elly, geekdom

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In that case I am wondering if the difference in behaviour is made by hiding/unhiding the still offered KB2952664.
Nevertheless, it is mostly of academic interest for me for various reasons.
Moving forward, if KB2952664 is such a big concern, I think @abbodi86 ‘s method to work around it is the way to go and not avoiding it or its equivalent implementation in the CU, because this becomes next to impossible. The other way to do it is to follow the security implementation presented here many times by @noel-carboni , which is difficult or too time consuming for most users, including those who would be able to technically do it.
Those with a bigger perspective about the current state of the industry would know that every manufacturer is currently taking steps in the direction of implementing telemetry, so there is likely “no way to hide”, other than being completely disconnected.

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In my tests:

You will get Windows8.1 KB2976978-v24 even with latest rollup (security or preview)

You will get Windows7 KB2952664-v25 if latest installed rolup is preview

You will get KB3150513 in all cases with latest rollup

3 users thanked author for this post.

ch100, geekdom, PKCano

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PKCano wrote:

…Yet, after installing the Oct Rollups, I am being offered KB3150513 on all of the machines. That alone would be evidence to the presence of the two patches (or their functionality). But other evidence is in the activation of the associated Scheduled Tasks, which have been disabled forever on my machines. I am using @abbodi86 ‘s script to neutralize the effects now of that which I had manually neutralized before.

I had been in Group B, gave up, and installed the September Rollup. After the October Rollup, I saw that diagtrack.dll was now present. Just for grins, I tried uninstalling the Rollup, which FAILED to uninstall. After restoring from backup image, I am back to Group B, and I use abbodi86’s script as well.

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? says:

alrighty then, does the KB2952664/KB3150513 “other shoe,” drop in the “B” style November Security Only patch? i’ve been poking around and found nothing on it. my guess is that “they” will stuff it in there, soon…

waiting for 11/13 to download the SO patch and look inside. if it is there then maybe patching win7 is over (for me) or hex edit (strip) it out? only 43 more shopping days until Christmas!

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@abbodi86 syas the telemetry in not in the Security-only patches.

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? says:

thank you favorite blue mushrooms! “not in there ,” yet…

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@PKCano , you were the published author and there were other researchers and contributing voices included in the local article AKB2952664. Excellent work at the time.

Could it be edited, or even rewritten, to reflect the new conditions since abbodi86’s work in late September, 2018?

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