• What’s an SAC-T? What’s going to happen to the old SBB? And why should you care?

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    Microsoft’s terminology for Windows 10 releases is so infernally screwed up it’s hard to imagine the official terms could get any worse. Don’t hold yo
    [See the full post at: What’s an SAC-T? What’s going to happen to the old SBB? And why should you care?]

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    • #196010

      I just saw this which references this.

      There is work underway to evolve the Windows Update for Business model, and have deferrals based on just one offset date. Once that happens, the SAC-T entry on the release information page will go away and you will just see two entries per year. This change will be communicated well in advance.

      I see that Susan commented for clarification on Friday (which has not yet been provided) on the 2nd link (the MS one), but I did not see an existing topic covering this already here at AskWoody so I definitely wanted to bring this up. This is huge, and quite disappointing news.

      “I am altering the deal. Pray I don’t alter it any further.” How many times has the deal been altered at this point? I’ve lost count. This is no bueno. I foresee a whole lot more “accidental” upgrades in the future for everyone.

      On a humorous note: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_xMRiCLE

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      • #196062

        From what I understand, Microsoft realized they made a mistake using the targeted terminology, which was to fix a mistake they thought they made using the CBB terminology, which had the unfortunate effect (for them) that businesses would wait until a release is deemed ready for business (duh) before starting to test it. Using the same bad name (Semi-Annual Channel) and only adding a targeted word after was meant to indicate you should start testing with the poor targets in your organization that are a subset of the rest of the guinea pigs for what has become Windows 10 perpetual lower quality OS than what we were used to with SP1 version of the Vista and later era.

        I think maybe they just mean to drop the idea of a deferral based on this designation that they already ignored sometimes indirectly by naming a version not targeted or CBB in the past faster than maybe is reasonable just to start pushing it faster to those who would have preferred to wait. I think they want to just honor a deferral set of days and stop giving names, maybe by just having the group policy setting for days of deferral that is already there. This is not bad if it is just that, as maybe you should only use this setting anyway since the criteria to name a version CBB or not targeted is very arbitrary and you might not agree with when Microsoft thinks it is ready for large scale deployment in your business.By now, you should know that it is better to test with only a subset of your organization when a new version of Windows is released, no need to be told it is not ready for large scale deployment, so the designation is pretty much useless anyway, especially if you think Woody’s job at reporting issues has any validity and you remember that some versions got designated CBB or ready for business or not targeted while still suffering from many issues. The question of knowing if this is too anecdotal evidence or not can be debated, but you get the idea.

        The only thing that worries me a little is it looks like it was implied in the article that you could receive no update at all including security patches if you were on deferral, which doesn’t seem to make sense as then you would render the older versions of Windows unsupported except the latest. I don’t think that could be the case.

        So, conclusion, I don’t worry, but they better respect the deferral settings in days in the GP and not remove it from the Pro version.


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        • #196218

          but they better respect the deferral settings in days in the GP and not remove it from the Pro version.

          The pessimist in me is thinking that they might just do that alas and I am currently tinkering around with Win10 Home 1709 in a VHDX to that end should that dark day ever arrive. Loved Win Pro Versions ever since Win2k, Vista excepted and what I have seen not missed, but the extra for specifying WinX Pro is looking less alluring as time goes by.

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    • #196211

      More Obviscation by Terminology, priceless and, no doubt, to go with it more “Tinkering under the Hood” to make new versions and updates “irresistable.”

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    • #196230

      I have already at least once mixed up “Semi-Annual Channel, Targeted” and “Semi-Annual Channel” – which at face value have NO meaning whatsoever.

      I finally worked out a way to remember which is which: “Targeted” is something I generally don’t want to be.

      At least I think I got that right.

      No doubt Microsoft’s Marketing folks are trying to obfuscate the issue of our controlling updates until it frustrates people so much that they just give up.

      Unfortunately for Microsoft, it’s a bit like trying to convince people they don’t need to breathe. Control of one’s computer systems is pretty critical for business – even small business. They need to find some way out of this “treat small business like just another social media user” dilemma. It’s either Pro or it isn’t.


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    • #196237

      M$ recommended 10% of Win 10 Ent devices(= mostly high-end devices) to be targeted for validation/testing by the IT Admins before broad deployment(= SAC). But in practice, likely only 0.1% or a few Win 10 Ent devices are being targeted by the IT Admins = M$ does not have enough Beta-testers among the enterprises. Hence, the need for M$ to change terminology and deferral rules.

    • #196270

      If you followed the enterprise market especially for virtualisation products for a while, you would find that Microsoft are amateurs when it comes to changing marketing terms and renaming products or sub-products.
      Citrix used to change major product names almost monthly few years ago when rebranding as “Xen” most of their flagship products. Does anyone remember Citrix Presentation Server, first XenApp standalone and now a subset of the XenDesktop suite? Or the ICA protocol now under a wider concept of Citrix HDX? Or the ICA client now under the umbrella term Citrix Receiver?
      A large number of well known enterprise products were recently acquired by Ivanti and Susan should be familiar with this because they acquired Shavlik as well. Shavlik is hosting patchmanagement.org . There is lot of rebranding happening right now for products like AppSense, Lumension etc., all under the Ivanti brand.
      Norskale a well known name in the Citrix world has virtually disappeared over night and their product is now named Citrix Workspace Environment Manager, which is merging right now with another product formerly from Sepago, now under Citrix.
      Need more confusion? 🙂

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    • #196281

      Suckerd,  Smuckerd,  Smacked,  and now  Sacked  SAC-T,  Microsoft owns us. And they have “always” honored the deferral settings in the past, right! (sarcasm) why should they change.

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    • #196294

      I thought SAC meant Strategic Air Command. Wrong century.

      Carpe Diem {with backup and coffee}
      offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
      offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
      online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1413 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox112.0b3 MicrosoftDefender
    • #196297

      why should I care?

      I don’t, beyond me why anyone actually entertains embracing malware to fix it. Windows was never broken but, msft sure have fixed it for their revenues at a long term cost in all IT aspects of business. Honey trapped!

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    • #196328

      I was thinking maybe upgrading my PC’s to Pro from Home to be able to defer updates for at least some time while all the bugs are exorcised. Its now looking more like Pro will not be a whole lot better then Home in this regard anymore. Microsoft is slowly twisting the screws on forcing everyone into a more frequent upgrade cycle. The only option will be some form of hack to try and stop them.

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    • #196342

      Windows was never broken but, msft sure have fixed it for their revenues at a long term cost in all IT aspects of business. Honey trapped!

      If I wasn’t so sure they’ll sc**w it up, I’d buy stock.

      It seems the only reliable way to defer or prevent updates is to set up a domain (short of staying off the internet). Therefore, I am also sure they are working on a way around this as well.

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    • #196348

      Late last week, we got word that “Semi-Annual Channel (SAC) – Targeted” gobbledygook is going away – to be replaced by what, we don’t know. There’s been so much turmoil in the terminology that you might (rightfully) assume that the people in charge don’t have a clue what they’re doing. And, in my humble opinion, you’d be right.

      Like Noel said, perhaps Microsoft is purposely making things difficult to understand, so that they can more easily move everyone to the SaaS and WaaS models.

      All I want is a simple “Off” switch – let me decide when you can apply updates. That’s what we had in Win7 and 8.1. That’s what we need right now.

      Microsoft is slowly twisting the screws on forcing everyone into a more frequent upgrade cycle. The only option will be some form of hack to try and stop them.

      You’ve got one – it’s called Linux.

      Group "L" (Linux Mint)
      with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
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    • #196357

      Microsoft’s terminology for Windows 10 releases is so infernally screwed up it’s hard to imagine the official terms could get any worse.

      Do not underestimate the Masters!

      Look, folks. All I want is a simple “Off” switch – let me decide when you can apply updates. That’s what we had in Win7 and 8.1. That’s what we need right now.

      Based on what we’ve seen experienced up until now, that’s never gonna happen.

      Lean back and enjoy the wonderful world of WaaS – or go find an alternative…

      As I see it… if you’re doing anything but playing games on your pc, WaaS is probably part fun with a possibly part slightly annoyance bits.
      But if you have *work* to do (as in having critical deadlines, important data, clients’ trust etc.) on your pc and you’re alone, you’re required to have two pc’s running.
      A working station with last stable and trusted configuration locked down and then a testing station for running latest patches/updates… once stable and trusted, transfer to working station.

      Of course Microsoft ruins that “safe” setup idea, if they should choose to ignore deferred updates on the working station… and as they already have shown to do exactly that, they for sure have eliminated this poor user from joining the party.

      I do not have time to play with my OS.
      Or patience…

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      • #196360

        One thing you can do is keep your data on a separate drive external to your Windows computer, so that if you have to do a clean install of Windows to fix the damage caused by a Windows update, you won’t have to wipe the drive that contains your data. This is something that anyone can do, and it will greatly lessen the pain resulting from having to totally rebuild your machine.

        Keeping your data on a separate drive will also make backups a lot easier – to back up your data, you back up the data drive; and to back up Windows, you back up your Windows drive.

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
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        • #196536

          Agree. Always had system on it’s own disc.

          But I do not ever again want to not being able to work because of an update glitch… when I power up, I have things to do *now* and really have no time, patience or mood for nursing the OS.

          So since Microsoft may choose to ignore my settings and force feed me, Win10 is simply ruled out.

          Windows 7 lets me work as I see fit, only getting updates when I choose them.

          If they want me off Windows 7, they just need to change the old meaning of my “Check for updates” button to what they did on Win 10 1709…

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    • #196394

      There is an easy button to stop updates.  Put this into a .bat file:

      sc config "wuauserv" start= disabled
      sc stop "wuauserv"

      Make sure that the .bat runs with admin rights.  If you want to re-enable updates, make a second .bat with:

      sc config "wuauserv" start= auto
      sc start "wuauserv"

      Granted it’s not the Microsoft way of doing things, but Microsoft’s way doesn’t exist anymore.

      Edit: Noel Carboni 6/12 – fixed the formatting

      • #196411

        Each “sc” command is meant to be on its own line.  Just a head’s up if you try this yourself.

      • #196554

        I haven’t tried the command line, but doing this from Services doesn’t work: the service magically gets re-enabled and restarted before long.


        • #196560

          I run Win10 Home at home, I’ve shut off and disabled the service for the last month while they were diddling around.  It’s lasted reboots as well.  Might be your anti-virus software that’s re-enabling it.  McAfee and Norton both have done this in the past.

          • #197836

            I take it back, I just noticed that wuauserv is sometimes re-enabled after reboots now.  Not sure what changed, I haven’t allowed updates over the last month.  Last night I double-checked because I didn’t get the nag message and it was STILL disabled, even though the last 3 reboots it re-enabled.

            You can still set up a scheduled task to run on login, but that’s getting past the “easy button” solution.

    • #196404

      So the thousand dollar question:  Why doesn’t Microsoft use already accepted terminology?

      1803 is Latest, 1709 is Stable, and anything else supported is LTS (Long-Term Support) or deprecated.  Anything older is simply “not supported” or SOL.

      • #196423

        Because jargon is like a speakeasy password. It allows people who are equals in fact feel privileged by arcane knowledge of meaningless gibberish. If you have to ask you are not worthwhile. Many people outgrow this when their treehouse starts to feel to small for their secret club meetings.

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      • #197846

        I think they have changed the terminology in order to make it more difficult to understand — not impossible, but more difficult. The geeks can figure it out if they will take the time to do so, but most people will give up trying to figure it all out, and will simply assume that Microsoft must know what it is doing. This gives them cover for all of the non-user friendly changes they are making in Windows — “Microsoft must know what it is doing.”

        Group "L" (Linux Mint)
        with Windows 8.1 running in a VM
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    • #196429


      Warning: long post ahead…

      Decided to post a ‘story from the field’, in which I explain why I decided to switch to a Mac as a main production computer. And in the end ditch Windows – hopefully this year – completely.  My wife and I both run our own businesses. Before Windows 10 we both used Windows 7. That was quite ok. Not perfect, but workable. For a brief time we used also Windows 8. After using a tool to get rid of those silly tiles that was also usable for for business on a daily basis. Then came Windows 10. Summer of 2015, installing was a disaster. Yes, afterwards I realize I should have never done that. Big problems with drivers, many bsods etc. Wife stayed on 7, I started an adventure that I thought would be over after some weeks. Boy was I wrong. It took months before all hardware started working relatively stable after many driver updates. Network drivers on an expensive ultrabook never became stable though. So a new laptop came, business has to go on otherwise no income. Network problems there also after every pushed update from MS. Stopped automatic driver updates and used the one specific vendor driver that is stable. And then there were those shutdown-adventures. Once I took an overheated laptop out of my bag, 100% sure I switched it off. Had to do with some stupid Intel Management System driver in combination with Fast Start. Switching off both helped. Don’t want to even imagine what would have happened if this bag would have caught fire in a plane, discovered it just in time. It was and is a reoccuring problem, after every upgrade Fast Start is switched on by default. Which means that some laptops here won’t switch off.

      In the mean time there were those monthly updates. Often they brought more harm then they repaired. But ok: new OS, let’s stay positive. Those child diseases will be gone after a while, won’t they? Then came the first upgrade. High hopes. Ended in desillusion with many bsod’s and a total reinstall. In the middle of a very busy week at work, some nights without sleep. Only installed the bare minimum of software. Removed all those pesky apps that could be uninstalled. Switched to the business branch of upgrading. Started to make weekly images of the system. Those turned out to be life savers when an update went awry, which happened regular. Then Windows became more and more pushy. Ignored our privacy- and other settings. More and more updates appeared. It led to many lost hours of work midweek. The ‘highlight’ of the disrespect of Microsoft to its  users came somewhere near the end of last year. Despite on being at the business branch, Microsoft pushed the latest upGRade, without asking. It just did. In the middle of a very busy period. The upgrade didn’t work, system didnt boot anymore.  An image brought relief. Yanked out the network cable and managed to extend the deferral period wth 180 days before the upgrade started again. Lost a working day, was an expensive joke. It was that moment I decided that enough is enough.

      My wife did so silently a long time before. She doesn’t need MS Office urgently and discovered the iPad. She can work in the cloud, saas etc. For her, the iPad gave her rest; she could concentrate on her work and stop stressimg about being some kind of system manager to keep her computer under her control. I wasn’t so lucky, still have to use MS Office because most companies I work for/with use it and demand my work delivered in docx with templates etc. After talking to collegues in the same boat, I discovered that more and more were switching. MacOS was the way to go. I was hesitant because we invested recently in new Windows computers. But this pushed upgrade from last year cost me around the price of an iMac. So the decision was made. Now I work since about half a year with macOS. A relief. No nasty unexpected updates, stable as a rock and a very professional helpdesk that actually helps. Only that allone is worth the price to pay for a Mac if you are self employed or run a small company, in my opinion. I still use a Windows laptop for underway. I am not a multinational and can’t replace all systems at once here. But this Macbook will be bought for sure this year. It’s sad to see invested money in Windows systems be vaporized. But peace of mind and being able not to worry if Windows would start normally the next day or that an update or something else would cause trouble is just fantastic. I plan to install Ubuntu on the ‘left over’ laptops. Just for browsing and such things. MAYBE I will install a virtual Windows. Just in case. But to be honest, I think I don’t need it.

      What I see happen now is that Microsoft pushes people stronger and stronger. I am (was, Mac came to the rescue) not in control anymore of my own computers, my own business. Since May this year I never got pushed so many useless updates as before. At the same time, somehow it became totally unclear which updates are pushed to business users (or whatever they are called nowadays) and which ones not. Security updates I got, others partly not. They probably will be pushed unexpectedly on a very inconvenient moment. 1803 hides deferral settings deep inside the system I understood. Why? Why can’t I as an end user decide easily when I want to upgrade? Is that too much to ask?

      Soon it will be not my business anymore. I also realize that the time of top heavy, old fashioned desktop OS’es is nearing its end. What you can do now with a ‘simple’ iPad is what most people need for their daily computer needs. Add a keyboard, and some serious work is possible. Very often I take only an iPad, a Bluetooth keyboard of good quality and a smartphone with me. Sometimes it’s a bit improvising still. But all is better then this nagging feeling of pressure Windows gives me. I think that Microsoft completely lost its ‘feeling’ for their customers. Home users are leaving the platform anyay. Tablets, smart tv and game consoles are all they need to do their thing. It’s enterprises that Microsoft seems to focus on, rather desperately. By doing so, they lost also contact with small businesses and self employed people. Some of those will become the enterprises of the future. And guess what: I don’t think they will choose Windows as their main operating system. Young people were lost years ago already, besides some gamers. They grew up with non-Windows smartphones, tablets and – as I see around me – Macbook Airs.

      I don’t write this way too long (sorry) saga to bash Microsoft. It’s just that I worked with Windows for more then 20 years. It never evolved really, there is too much luggage from the past in it. And now, Microsoft tries to force its remaining users to completely assimilate into their schedule of updates and upgrades. To adapt to their way of working. Unfortunately, I function different. It made me decide to choose another way, to leave the Windows-system were one Great Leader decides for all. So long Windows, I wish you all the best in your new incartnations. It will be without me though. :-/ Keep my fingers crossed not too many disasters will strike the remaining laptops for the next couple of months.

      (hope I put this in the right place, if not admins can move it!)

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      • #196447

        How’s MSOffice for Mac?  I was of the understanding that at least some of it was not cross-compatible with the Windows version.  Have you tried LibreOffice?  Can it not do the required templates?  I’m considering moving a virtual desktop infrastructure over to Linux (200-ish clients).  Mac won’t be possible, but Linux might.

        The whole “desktop is dead” thing I don’t buy into.  If you need to do serious work, you need a desktop, if only to enable multi-tasking on bigger monitors to better see what’s going on.  Of course I’m IT, so my definition of “serious” might be different.  And I know some of my users can do work on an iPad, I just don’t understand how.  I’ve tried going full mobile since the iPhone 3GS and the incompatibilities, lack of ports, lack of multi-tasking, etc is just way too limiting.

        For the home user, if you plan on doing anything serious (art, sound, home business, gaming, streaming) you need a real computer of some kind.  For the casual user I agree that they can get away with just a tablet or phone.

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        • #196470


          Office for Mac works flawless, only (I think, not sure) ths VBA-part is missing. But that is being fased out anyway. In case of being a programmer for example, you indeed will need some kind of real pc. The same goes for other more productive/office-related stuff. But in my opinion Windows isn’t the most efficient choice for that anymore. MacOS is a very practical alternative because all the big names in software are available for it. With Ubuntu (more or less the easiest to implement desktop version of Linux) you can do most things also, if you don’t need MS Office or one of the Adobe programs. Libre Office is great, but unfortunately not 100% compatible with MS Offce. Still glitches with more complex documents. Much worse is that most templates don’t work, that’s a no go :-/ If you don’t use those and you can afford to use odf: go for it.

          For the rest don’t underestimate the iPad (Pro). Especially if you use a second one together with it. Ok, that’s a bit cheating, but still carrying both iPad’s with you s less weight than an avarage laptop. 😉 For writing text documents, it’s perfect for example. The other iPad you can use to look up things online etc. Great battery life, no spinning fans or harddisks. Multitasking  on the Pro’s works fine nowdays. Still – as I said – it’s a bit pioneering. Maybe one day there will be iPads that can switch to some kind of laptop-mode when you connect a keyboard and mouse.

          For the rest: most home users don’t do that much with a computer (anymore) is my experience. More and more software will run in the cloud. Maybe for you and me not ideal (yet?) but for many others more then enough. The ideal scenario would be a smart tv with a good browser and fast enough cpu. Just log in at the site of your cloud based software and off you go. We’re not there yet, but it will be the future.

          For now – in my opinion – an operating system for whatever type of computer should be a service. A service to the user and a service to the software it runs. It shouldn’t be like Windows where users are pushed to conform to the ‘vision’ of its creators. Where more and more bloatware is added. Windows as a service in Microsofts vision for sure isn’t a service to its users, but a pain in the you-know-what.

          Ideally, an OS should be modular and the user should be able to decide which extra’s will be installed and which ones not. No need for apps? Don’t install the stupid Windows Store and obliged other apps a user doesn’t need. I lost counting how often apps like photos, Edge, Maps etc. crashed and caused problems. Without ever using them even. That shouldn’t be the case. Why do I get long lists of updates pushed for Internet Explorer? Why is it even there still and not uninstallable? The last time I started IE is I think more then five years ago. The last time I actively used it more then ten years ago for sure. Being able to uninstall it would save me hundreds of MB’s worth of updates. Just an example.

          MacOS gets close to this kind of appraoach. Probably because under the hood it’s Unix, which is pretty modular to start with. Bloatware isn’t there. And the software that IS pre-installed is ewsy to uninstall,if you wish. That’s how it should be. I see the same approach in the latest v18 of Ubuntu. And no: I am not a Linux and/or Apple fanboy. I only want a stable, working computer that doesn’t install unwanted updates. And doesn’t phone home with long telemetry-sessions every day. And respect privacy and update-settings of users. Very basic stuff that got missing in Windows. For me Windows feels aggressive, can’t describe it otherwise.

          And now I will stop writing such long posts. Sorry btw if I made some mistakes in writing here or there, English isn’t my native language.

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          • #196532

            Interesting real world experience and vision of where things are going or not and should/shouldn’t go for users like you. You should register as an askwoody user. You can do it using a disposable email address.

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          • #196567

            Same anon that responded to you about Mac MSOffice.  Thanks, yeah the loss of VBA is a problem as we still use it quite a bit.  I’d be looking at translating it to Python if I do go with Libre.  Thanks for the response!

            As to the rest:  I’ve been using a Macbook Pro as my for about 6 months.  I connect into Win7 desktops for my actual work, but I do some things on it.  It’s… different.  I love the trackpad and have stopped using an external mouse/keyboard because I enjoy the gestures on OSX.

            What I hate about OSX:  its seems to over-rely on the mouse over keyboard commands.  So many things can be done fast in Windows with well-placed hotkeys, although maybe OSX is just as good and I don’t know the hotkeys yet.  I also hate its desktop windowing system.  It’s both good and bad; for gestures it’s nice to quickly flick through fullscreen apps, but it makes it hard to do multi-tasking compared to Linux or Windows.  Windows’ anchor points (try clicking a window, and then press winkey+Right-Arrow for what I mean) works wonders and can allow me to set up and tear down multiple windows of information (or applications) within a couple seconds.

            For Mac, I have to manually resize windows and guess at which one I want to open from the dock if I have more than one or two windows of an application open.  This is made worse with no preview.  I also can’t overlay a smaller window over a fullsized window, forcing me to use gestures to switch between windows if I want to do anything.  This is less of an issue with dual screens, but when you’re mobile you don’t always have that luxury.  These problems are the same ones I have with mobile devices, really.  But at least Macbooks have power, access to the shell, and better screen resolution.

            I’m not discounting mobile devices.  I’ve rebuilt servers over an Android Phone, so I know they can be lifesavers.  The problem is that everything that you can do on them has to be run by a different system.  There’s exceptions but it’s the general rule.  Need to use a printer? connect to a service.  Need to update a document? connect to a service (generally).  Need to review information?  Maybe you can maintain documents on the phone but generally you connect to a service.  Need to go into an area without Wi-fi?  Buy a laptop.  Need to do any type of diagnostics work or physically hook into another system? Buy a laptop or, if you’re lucky, remote desktop into another connected system.

            Mobile devices are great as a second, more passive screen.  I use mine like a book, where it holds information I can easily reference or mark up while working with my desktop.  For basic writing it’s good too.  Eg, send a quick email without pulling out my laptop or writing up basic notes in a notepad while on-the-go.  If a desktop PC replaced the office worker’s desk, mobile devices are akin to replacing a paper book.  It can replace a magazine, a novel, a notepad, or a small school binder.  Anything more than that and it starts to fall apart.

            Services are useful, some are very useful, although security is a problem.  For some, they have no problem having a third-party with 2 years of operation manage their tax information.  I’m not one of them.  I also find that many of the services I’ve committed to using are starting to go bad.  Microsoft itself is a good example as they slowly try and turn your desktop into paid advertising.  Another example is Evernote which has stated they’ll allow their employees to read the information you store with them.  I can’t allow that as a business decision, as a personal one I’m more willing to be lazy.  In the end, I’m looking to reduce the services I use and find alternatives that I can self-host.  I want more control over my information, not less.  Cloud-based services are not the way to go if you want that control.

            As for OS-as-a-Service, I somewhat disagree.  I agree that it should be a service provided by IT in companies, but when it comes to my own systems I see what MS is doing with Win10 as basically this.  They want to restrict what I do down to services that they think they can provide and maintain.  It’s basically handicapping their own OS to work within parameters they set rather than the worker’s desk which can be used to build new things.  Much like how I think Mac’s UI is too tablet-like sometimes, MS seems to want to do the same with Window’s capability.

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            • #197928

              @Alex Yes, I tried a couple of times to register, but never got this needed activation mail. I used several mail adresses, but nothing. Not in spam either. I am mostly a reader anyway, not a very active participant. Now even less, since I am not so dependant on Windows anymore…

            • #197958

              Hello Anonymous at Post #197928! Usually Woody suggests that if there is a problem registering, that you e-mail him directly- woody@askwoody.com.

              As people are facing end of life for Windows 7, and frustrated with constant updating and problems with W10, I’m sure more people will be looking at alternatives… whether OSX or a Linux distros. Your reply, with its perspectives of both a Windows and Mac user, has points useful to those of us who will be making a decision as to what kind of move to make… and it would be nice to be able to give you credit for sharing your experiences with us. Whatever you decide in regard to registering, thank you for the clarity and detail you’ve shared in your responses.

              Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter

              2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #196500

        @ anonymous #196429

        If I were you, I would have reverted back to Win 8.1, which is supported for 5 more years until 2023, before moving to MacOS or another OS.

        Who knows, by 2023 there may be a new and better OS that will displace both Win 10 and MacOS.

        “Patience is a virtue”. The opposite is some trendy computer users who like to stay on the bleeding-edge and be the first to adopt the newest technologies.

        • #196530

          Win 8 started pushing to upgrade to 10 stronger and stronger. Under the line the situation is simple: there is more than Windows. I do not need this specific OS for my needs anymore. So why should I hang on to it longer? Yes, patience is a virtue. But in case of Windows I had to be VERY patient. I really thought the situation would improve over time, but it just got worse. Also I am worried about how Microsoft threats and uses my data. All in all, lots of smaller things and some big issues pushed me over the edge. And life at the other side is quite ok, to be honest. Maybe one day, in a far future… But deep in my heart I know I will never make myself dependant of Windows again. Too risky and too cumbersome. If it works for you or anyone else: of course be happy with that! Maybe I am just weird.

          • #196534

            Plus, when Windows 8.1 will be at like 1-2% market and Windows 7 is EOL, I wouldn’t bet Microsoft will not do everything it can to have you switched to something else. Or some other software companies like Adobe with Vista before Microsoft in the past will drop support because there is less than 5% market share.

        • #197024

          MacOS also has a lot of those key-combinations. Many are even similar to Windows, just replace Control for Command. Like command-c for copy. For the rest it’s just getting used. We are all ‘poisoned’ by how Windows works, but in other OS’es things work different. It takes time to get used to. Although I must say that when I switched to macOS, afer a week already I didn’t want tomgo back. But this is probably als dependant on what you do with a computer. As far as VBA goes, I seem to have been wrong. It IS available in the mac version of Office 2016. But don’t ask me where and how it works, never used it. Also in Windows it’s more or less obsolete nowadays…

          • #197247

            I’m the anon the complained about lack of key combinations in OSX.  I’m aware of the standard keyboard commands for things like locking screen, screencapping, copy/paste and Spotlight.

            What I’m missing are things like windowskey+x (Win 8+ power user menu), winkey+r (run), winkey+arrowkeys (window manipulation), winkey+tab (alt+tab but with ghost windows), ctrl+shift+esc for task manager, winkey+D for desktop.  As for non-keyboard shortcuts: dragging windows to the corners for them to “snap”, double-clicking the top frame of a window in order for it to snap full-size vertically without altering horizontally.  Also no breadcrumbs in Finder just annoys me to no end.  Makes connecting to fileservers more painful as well.  And the transfer between multi-monitors is a bit weird and not as smooth as with Windows.  I get that this is because it uses virtual “desktops” but I seem to remember Linux handling this better.

            There’s probably others I’m not thinking of right now, but these are ones that make using OSX as my primary work system painful.  Much of the power user functionality doesn’t seem to be there.  I know some of this is down to my being a primary Windows user, but some of the features just don’t seem to exist.

            With VBA, at least where I work it’s still in use.  JScript is brand new to Office and will be too insecure for a while; Powershell and other scripting languages don’t offer the same kind of direct access that VBA does.  For most things, yes, wsh (Windows Script Host) integration with Office is great, but there’s certain things like Outlook toolbar items and cell manipulation in Excel that are still better done by VBA.  Not sure what the other options are;  Excel has general formulas but for other functionality, C#?

            • #197327

              I always HATED those gazillions of key combi’s in Windows… ? Never used many of them, so don’t miss then either. And I can’t tell you alternatives for macOS.

              What I do know is that you can define your own key combo’s, as far as I remember… I agree that if you need VBA it would be a loss if not implemented. But from what I understood, it’s just available.

            • #197446

              Once you learn the key combinations they become incredibly useful.  If you ever want hotkey overload, try eMacs or VIM 🙂

              The VBA comment was mostly to say that VBA isn’t dead, and I don’t think it will be for a while.  If we do move to LibreOffice we’ll rebuild functionality in Python.

            • #197929

              Python sounds better, also much more universal.

    • #196544

      Semi Annual Channel = Targeted,   Micro$oft continues marching (trampling?) forward with more  Insider Previews  for  Business,   and the next version 1809 is on the way.




      • #197656

        …and the next version 1809 is on the way.

        Absolutely true, and once again it underscores that the current policy is transmitting new builds an utterly ridiculous pace.

        3 years. Not 6 months, not 1 year.

        I *might* be willing to consider installing a whole new OS every 2 years, but only if Microsoft absolutely would go out of business using 3 year OS release intervals.


        1 user thanked author for this post.
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