What’s wrong with Windows 11?

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I’m not a Windows user anymore. I used to be, from 1990 until I saw what Microsoft’s vision for Windows 10 was. Starting in 2015, I began migrating to Linux, which I completed in 2016. Now, all these years later, the things I loathed so much about Windows 10 that I would leave Windows behind are still present, but somehow Windows 10 has been “rehabilitated” in people’s minds and is now “good,” whereas Windows 11 is “bad” to many people.

I don’t understand the transformation of Win 10 to “good” when it still is full of ads/monetization, telemetry, and updates you can’t fully control. Those were the main reasons it was “bad” back in the day, and it’s still like that.

Until recently, I had never actually tried Windows 11, but that changed. I bought a replacement for that Xenia 14 laptop I sent back in January… this one is an Acer Swift Go 14. Like everything, it has its issues, but I like it. It is now running Linux, but it came with Windows 11, and for the first few days I had it, I ran it with 11 to see what it was like. I did not move my “stuff” over to it, so I did not truly try it out head to head against my preferred Linux, but I did some browsing and customized the OS to my liking, and what surprised me is how much I didn’t hate it. Of course, I went into it knowing that the things that make Windows 10 problematic for me were also present here, so I am not thinking about those bits just for the moment.

I did customize Windows 11 to sand off some of its rough edges, but I have done that with every Windows since I first used Windows. Even back when I used Windows 3.0, I used something called Pubtech File Organizer to replace the default shell on Windows. It made it much more like the upcoming Windows 95 would be… and it was a huge departure from progman and fileman (the Program Manager and File Manager shells for Windows).

With Windows 10, I had always used Old New Explorer, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, and Classic Shell (now Open Shell). I used those with 8.x as well, and most of them with 7 too (Old New Explorer being the exception). With 11, I used Explorer Patcher, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, and Open Shell.

The main difference is that Old New Explorer brought back the File, Edit, View… menubar, while none of the things I used for 11 did that. The ribbon (optional on 10 and 8.x) is gone, which I don’t mind at all, as I consider it one of the bigger UI abominations in history. The default view in “This PC” on 11  looked very much like I wanted right after installing these things, which was a welcome change.

I selected the dark theme, as I overcame my resistance to it and came to like it some time ag0 (it also gets rid of the issue with the light fringing around the screen on the XPS), and while some UI bits chose to ignore the dark mode, it was mostly decent.

Of course, the Windows 11 context menu (with More Options…) had to go, and I put the start button back where it belongs in the lower left corner (Fitts’ law once again being satisfied). Explorer Patcher excised the icons only taskbar and brought back the classic style one from 10 on down, which is compatible with 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, which I used to disable the obnoxious mouseover thumbnails.

Now that all that is done, and after all of the debloating and removal of all ad and promotional content, what is left is an OS that seems more coherent in terms of UI than Windows 10 had been. The “Settings” seem more integrated, and it doesn’t feel like as much of a cobbled together mess as Windows 10.

On the bad side,the scrolling with the “precision” touchpad is just horrible. The disease known as “natural” scrolling has made the rounds here, and like on most UIs, the default setting is to have it backwards, so scrolling down makes it actually scroll up. Because that’s how phones do it, and phones are cool. Never mind that phones actually have you put your finger on the content, so it feels like you’re actually grabbing the thing displayed and moving it… not so on a touchpad, where scrolling backwards is just un”Natural” and weird. I don’t use a phone enough to have “muscle memory” for scrolling in reverse (though when I do use a phone, I do not habitually scroll the wrong way at first either, so at least one brain is capable of keeping the two separate).

It’s easy enough to reverse the scrolling direction by changing the setting, but the scroll speed is still pretty well locked to the amount the stuff on screen moves. The amount of motion to make it scroll is excessive, and there’s no option to change it. Changing the “friction” value in the registry didn’t help much, and it’s all the way down to 0.

I think Win 1o is the same way, though. It was last I tried it, but I never looked to see if there was a setting to fix it.

This is one problem with Windows Precision touchpads. They’re meant to work with Windows without a vendor-provided driver… so all of those neat customizations people used to have with Synaptics are not there anymore. The scrolling speed might well be one of those things!

So, anyway, that’s my first impression of 11. Not great out of the box, but then no Windows since 2000 has really been mostly ready to go at first boot. They’ve all required modifications, with each newer version taking more than the one prior. Once modified, it’s not the horror I thought, though the scroll issue would still make it a no-go for me even if I did not object to the updates, monetization, and telemetry.

So, those of you who find 10 acceptable but not 11, what is it about 11 that galls you the most? I don’t mean the bit about needing a TPM and a CPU of a recent enough generation. Those are annoying, and so is the push to require a MS account (which I sidestepped by using the ol’ bad password trick), but those are outside the gates, preventing people from entering Windows 11. That does not seem to be what people are talking about when they say Windows 11 is unacceptable. What is it that is so much worse than 10?

 

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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AlexEiffel, Sueska, BobbyB, TechTango, Kirsty, Cybertooth

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Nothing is wrong with Windows 11.  It works just fine on all three of the PCs in our household.  I’m glad you like Linux but for those of us who use Adobe photo editing software, that is not an alternative.

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I don’t like the increased difficulty of having a local account, as I fear in a future update a Microsoft account may be required.  Windows 10, or I should say Edge, is putting up more and more reminders to use Edge or Bing (putting the search bar on the desktop repeatedly), and I have heard that Windows 11 has reminders to use a Microsoft Account.  I assume that Windows 11 in the future will more aggressively suggest opening documents with Office 365 and increasingly promote Edge, Bing and a Microsoft account.

For now most of these reminders can be turned off, so the Windows 11 right click menu may be my main complaint (except for my postscript at the end).  I don’t like using third party shells, explorers, etc., or antivirus as I find that things tend to break when updated if you have anything non-Microsoft standard.

P.S. My biggest complaint is that I like my current (incompatible) hardware.  When Windows 10 end of support comes, if I try an unsupported Windows 11 install I am afraid that it it works at all it may fail with any upcoming update.

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Ascaris, Kirsty

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Energy Saver wrote:

I don’t like the increased difficulty of having a local account, as I fear in a future update a Microsoft account may be required.

That would be a deal-breaker for me.

Historically, my biggest three issues with Windows after 7 have been the flat user interface and (starting with 10) the required telemetry and forced updates.  Thus far, I’ve managed to tame Windows 8, 10, and 11 to (barely) the point of tolerability.

If and when it becomes impossible to tweak the OS to control these factors, though, or if it becomes impossible to avoid having a Microsoft account, then Kubuntu Linux will be for choice here. The Windows compatibility layer known as WINE has improved to the point where it might just make Windows programs in Linux reliable enough to use for work purposes where there is no suitable Linux substitute.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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BobbyB, Kirsty

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Like the author of this thread, I don’t see Windows 11 as being as “bad” as Windows 10; I very much dislike Windows 10, always have and still do. My newer laptop has Windows 10, but lacks one generation CPU wise of being upgradeable to Windows 11. My new desktop PC has Windows 11 22H2, but the Intel based systems in it (communications, display, etc.) seem to still have some compatability issues with this OS. There are still ongoing local security issues with Windows 11 still, after seven months, that result in dozens of warnings and some errors in the event viewer, though not interfering with my use of the computer, and some services still occasionally will crash randomly if not disabled. The OS just doesn’t feel like it’s ready for prime time (i.e.–not finished). My main complaint about both Windows 10 and 11 is that they are not Windows 7 x64 SP1, which I still have running two 4th generation Intel destop pc’s, and which run near perfect in my estimation. I judge an operating system by how it works for me without “modifications” to make it look and feel like Windows 7, which shouldn’t be necessary. Each Windows operating system since Windows 7 in my opinion has gotten further and further away from what I like and feel comfortable with; and each has come with its own array of new and unnecessary problems.

 

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wavy, Cybertooth

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Douglas wrote:

I judge an operating system by how it works for me without “modifications” to make it look and feel like Windows 7, which shouldn’t be necessary. Each Windows operating system since Windows 7 in my opinion has gotten further and further away from what I like and feel comfortable with; and each has come with its own array of new and unnecessary problems.

I do something similar, except for me it is Windows 2000 that is the standard. You could take the above quote and replace each instance of “7” with “2000” and it could be a quote from me. Even Windows 7 needed several aftermarket programs to make it work for me.

I remember 10 being so despised by so many of my fellow techie types back in the day. It kind of caught me off guard when these same people started saying 10 was “good.” Without MS ever fixing any of the bad stuff, Windows 10 is good now to a lot of people, and now Windows 11 is bad. It just didn’t seem so for the couple of days that I used it… I liked it better than 10, which is not saying a lot.

Windows 11 still has all of the really bad stuff from 10 in it, so while I did say I was surprised at how much I don’t hate it, I am still a long, long way from migrating back to Windows. I just expected it to be as much worse than 10 than 10 was from 8.1, and it’s not, at least in my limited first impression. It may well make its badness known if I used it for a daily-driver OS, which was why I asked the question why people dislike it so much. It has some very big negatives, but these are the very same ones in Windows 10, so clearly those are not the things the Win 11 detractors refer to.

Meanwhile, when I migrated my new Swift Go to Linux, I just cloned the SSD from the Dell XPS to a new one installed into my Thunderbolt NVMe external enclosure (with dd if=/dev/nvme0n1 of=/dev/nvme1n1 bs=1M status=progress) and popped that copy into the new Acer, then began using it. No muss, no fuss, no activation or licensing worries. Doesn’t even matter that the new laptop can’t have Intel RST turned off and the old one is set up using AHCI (which would make Windows bluescreen endlessly) It just works. Things could be so simple if MS was interested in them being that way.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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Douglas wrote:

I judge an operating system by how it works for me without “modifications” to make it look and feel like Windows 7, which shouldn’t be necessary.

In that case, Windows 7 is your operating system, is it not?  In my experience I found a number of changes to make in Windows 7 in order for it to look and feel like an operating system that suits my purposes.  I did the same with XP.  I also found that necessary with Windows 3.11, 95 and 98SE.

No OOBE is going to everyone’s cup of tea.  I have no qualms about using third party software to get the look, feel, performance and stability of an OS.  I’ve sliced and diced and reshaped every iteration of Windows to turn it into a platform for the software that I use without getting in my way.  In my experience, each new version of Windows has had improvements in the guts of the OS.  I can make the UI look the way I want with my Start Menu of choice.

My Windows 11 Pro looks, feels and performs like my Windows 7 Ultimate, only faster.  Windows 7 introduced Special Folders which I promptly ripped out, as I have continued to do with each new iteration.  I don’t work Windows’ way, Windows works my way.  Microsoft creates software for millions upon millions of people with myriad combinations of hardware and software.  I have never expected any version of Windows to not need modifications in order to fit my way of doing things.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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I think it is wonderful that you have the knowledge, experience, expertise and confidence to substantially modify every version of the Windows operating system user interface to suit your needs and desires all through the years. However, I doubt more than one percent of Windows home users fall into your category of expertise. I certainly would never attempt any of that. But Microsoft could have made millions of their users happy by simply including an option near the bottom of some settings page or possibly on the themes page that allowed the user to “make my DUI look like Windows 7.” They did not because they were determined to kill Windows 7 and force people to move away from it for their marketing and advertising reasons. You’re correct that Windows 7 is the operating system for me; but without your knowledge, expertise, experience and confidence modifying operating systems that means I have to either settle for an OS that is no longer secure nor receives security updates or else settle for the newest ones I very much dislike. Obviously I’m stuck with the latter if I want to be secure while connected to the internet. Having read all of your comments in this thread, I’m convinced I should remain merely a guest on this site and probably comment a lot less.

 

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Cybertooth

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All are welcome.

There are lots of tools to make 11 look and act like 7.  They wanted to have something to show that it was different than 7.  It’s like the car companies.  They can’t just keep making what works, they have to change them out.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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The longest journey starts with a single step. No one expects you to be a Windows expert on the day you join. Or ever, if that is not your goal. If you choose to pursue it, the site is full of people who know things you might like to know, and they will be willing to help. But if you do not have that as a goal, and you just want to occasionally know whether something is possible, and if so how to do it, well, asking questions like that that is why the site exists. It is not and has never been meant for experts only.

The very name of the site is “AskWoody,” and that was meant literally back when Woody was the head honcho here. Unfortunately for us all, he had some health issues and had to retire from the site, but the site and its mission live on.

Now, about the topic at hand.

You are right, of course, that MS could have made people happy by keeping the UI the same, or by providing a simple, obvious button to accomplish that. If they were driven strictly by the desire to make people’s PCs usable, they may have done that. But MS also has a marketing department, and marketing people don’t like to sell the old reliable thing that is the same as the one you bought ten years ago, but newer. They want New! Improved! Better! Shiny!

So we get the equivalent of model year changes in UIs… which are supposed to be  a tool to help you use your computer as efficiently as possible. A lot of these changes are not meant to help the user get the most out of his or her hardware. They’re meant to benefit Microsoft, not you. That is a problem a lot of us have with Win 10/11 era Windows, and is at the center of why I am a former Windows user.

That does not mean you’re doomed to accept whatever nonsense MS has dished out each time a change happens. When you look at the list of modifications that bbearren cited, I can see where it would look intimidating, but you don’t have to do the whole thing at once. You can make smaller changes that will smooth out your experience one step at a time. Once you see that it is possible, and not as hard as you thought it would be, and you see a clear change that makes things better, you can try the next one.

The confidence that some of us have comes from a long series of mistakes made and mistakes learned from. Mistakes teach you more than things that work easily the first time. The biggest part of it is one of the most vital and often overlooked or neglected bits of computing… making backups. It’s your “undo” button, and when you know that no matter how bad you break something, you can get back to a time (like yesterday, or the week before, however often you want to do them!) when the PC was working well, it’s not so terrifying anymore. It’s just a machine. If it breaks, hit the undo button, then try again. Or don’t… your choice.

If you can go through the process of selecting a backup program, obtaining an external hard drive if you don’t have one already, and making the backup to that drive, you will be way ahead of where you were before. Then you can try things with relative impunity… and it not only can be useful in making Windows work the way you want, but a lot of fun as well. Before you know it, you’re not a beginner anymore, and you might be the one passing on what you learned to someone who is.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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Try asking this question:
What’s right with Windows 11?

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

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Cybertooth

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geekdom wrote:

What’s right with Windows 11?

It’s easier to modify than Windows 10, which was easier to modify than Windows 8.1, which was easier to modify than Windows 8, which was easier to modify than Windows 7.

There are multiple distros of Linux, and there are good reasons for that.  I have my own personalized distro of Windows 11 Pro.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Andy M

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What is wrong: What feels like arbitrary hardware restrictions. For some of us that won’t buy a Windows Enterprise sku/won’t get M365 E5, and won’t do Azure AD (you know who you are) it feels like the mandate to buy new hardware to get benefits that we won’t have access to is what is wrong. We are going to have a lot of e waste to deal with.

I have a Intel Core i7 desktop that is not Windows 11 worthy.

What is annoying: Right mouse click. I know that cut and paste is up there in the top row but given that I work with both 10 and 11, it takes the brain an extra “oh yeah” to remember that 11 is more about icons than words.

What is right: For those that can afford the Enterprise and E5 the additional hooks into hardening credentials is a very good thing.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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fk5353, dancinfridge, oldfry, Cybertooth

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Susan Bradley wrote:

What is wrong: What feels like arbitrary hardware restrictions. For some of us that won’t buy a Windows Enterprise sku/won’t get M365 E5, and won’t do Azure AD (you know who you are) it feels like the mandate to buy new hardware to get benefits that we won’t have access to is what is wrong.

Certainly agreed there. But that’s not what people are talking about when they say, “I hope that by the time Windows 10 support ends, Windows 11 has improved, because it’s not acceptable now, and I would continue to use 10 past its EOL date if it was still just as bad.”

Susan Bradley wrote:

What is annoying: Right mouse click. I know that cut and paste is up there in the top row but given that I work with both 10 and 11, it takes the brain an extra “oh yeah” to remember that 11 is more about icons than words.

A quick registry edit and the old context menu returns. It’s annoying, but easily undone.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
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Ascaris wrote:

A quick registry edit and the old context menu returns. It’s annoying, but easily undone.

That’s my main sticking point with the majority of Windows 11 complaints that I see posted here on AskWoody.  Microsoft has yet to produce a Windows version that suited me out of the box.  Just as I have always done my own maintenance and upgrades on my vehicles, I do my own maintenance and upgrades on Windows.

Don’t like the UI?  Change it.  Don’t like the right-click menu?  Change it.  I have been using a handful of the same tools for manipulating Windows for over twenty years, and I have yet to meet a version of Windows that I can’t bend to my will.  I am unable to understand why some complain so vehemently about Microsoft not crafting their UI to suit them exactly, and seem to consider it to be caving in to Microsoft or beneath their level of dignity to spend $4 or $5 to download and install a UI that mimics Windows XP/7 right down to fly-out menus.  There are free alternatives to Windows 11 UI.

“Microsoft should do it instead.”  Well, Microsoft didn’t do it, but there are alternatives that did.  I’m quite partial to StartIsBack ($3 then) for Windows 8, StartIsBack+ for Windows 8.1 (it was a free upgrade), StartIsBack++ for Windows 10 (free upgrade), and StartAllBack ($4) for Windows 11.  I just upgraded my NAS from Windows 10 Pro to Windows 11 Pro, and after the reboots and “Hi.” routines, I got a pop-up from StartIsBack++ that it wasn’t compatible with Windows 11, and contained a link to click to make it right.  I clicked the link and StartIsBack++ upgraded itself to StartAllBack v3.6.5 in a blink, without charge, activated my license and retained my settings from StartIsBack++.  I was pleasantly surprised and pleased with the simplicity and efficiency of the upgrade in UI.

I just counted 246 distros of Linux on Wikipedia, not including the more than a dozen distros for Android mobile.  Don’t like Windows 11?  Don’t want to stoop to using “third party” to do “what Microsoft should have done for me”?  Sort through those Linux distros until you find one that suits you, if one that suits you exists.  Don’t want to learn a new OS?  Then tweak the Windows with which you are more familiar and make it more to your liking.

It ain’t all that hard, folks.  StartAllBack will handle taskbar, File Explorer, Control Panel, context menus, and start menu from its Properties screen.

Or just keep complaining about Microsoft.  I’m no fan bouy of Microsoft; their cash cow is a combination of Office and Azure cloud services, Windows OS not so much.  They are tailoring Windows to better suit Office and Azure, not necessarily consumer end users.  They’re going where the money goes, and will continue to do so.  That’s their business model.  I’ll keep using a handful of third party tools to make Windows suit me.  See the green in my signature line.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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Andy M

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Open Shell also works on Windows 11 quite well, despite their documentation mentioning only Windows 10 (and older). It’s free, and is pretty much the same product it was when I used it as Classic Shell on Windows 7 and 8.1. I liked it so much back then that I made a donation to its original author, before he bowed out and open-sourced his code.

The one thing I can say for Windows 10 is that having MS throw it on the back burner and forget it exists other than security updates seems like a good deal to me. Having more features added just to have something to put in the press release just adds instability to the code for no good reason. If you want one of the new features, that’s different, but most of what MS churned out through the 10 life cycle has been questionable. Windows 11 is the new baby, and it will receive all the attention, which is not necessarily a good thing.

Otherwise, there’s not that much light between Windows 10 and 11, particularly after I run the Explorer patcher to fix the bad things MS has done with the taskbar. I would not have to do that with Windows 10, so there’s that, but no version of Windows since Vista has been acceptable to me without aftermarket addons anyway, even the vaunted Windows 7, so why quibble about one more?

 

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)

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oldfry

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Totally.

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Susan Bradley wrote:

What is wrong: What feels like arbitrary hardware restrictions. For some of us that won’t buy a Windows Enterprise sku/won’t get M365 E5, and won’t do Azure AD (you know who you are) it feels like the mandate to buy new hardware to get benefits that we won’t have access to is what is wrong. We are going to have a lot of e waste to deal with.

I have a Intel Core i7 desktop that is not Windows 11 worthy.

What is annoying: Right mouse click. I know that cut and paste is up there in the top row but given that I work with both 10 and 11, it takes the brain an extra “oh yeah” to remember that 11 is more about icons than words.

What is right: For those that can afford the Enterprise and E5 the additional hooks into hardening credentials is a very good thing.

I can’t read a single ‘right’ in your post for ‘Joe Public’… and absolutely no recommendation whatsoever.

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Even Joe Public needs to be on supported operating systems.  That’s my recommendation for moving to 11 right now.  It’s a lifecycle decision.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Andy M

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Susan Bradley wrote:

Even Joe Public needs to be on supported operating systems. That’s my recommendation for moving to 11 right now. It’s a lifecycle decision.

I disagree that still-evolving Windows 11 is the way to go, especially when so many of Joe Public’s hardware doesn’t meet Microsoft’s diktats.

What is going on with you?

You may be happy to put all your eggs into a totally unproven basket but I’m not.

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Alex5723

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I’m fine.

I am not a fan of chromebooks – too restrictive and the Apple ecosystem is too expensive. (Virtual headset for $3,500, come on Tim that’s way too expensive).  Even at home Windows – and even with Windows 11 – is still more comfortable to use.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Andy M, oldfry, Cybertooth

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Way to go or not, everybody who buys a PC or laptop these days will end up with Windows 11. Might as well accept it and just change whatever you don’t like with third party programs. It’s easy and often free.

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Ascaris wrote:

A quick registry edit and the old context menu returns. It’s annoying, but easily undone.

The problem is that the user would need to know that it’s even possible to fix the messed-up UI, let alone the method for doing it. Most “normies” I’ve talked to about this, don’t know any better and simply grouse about the unwanted changes, limping along the channel that Microsoft has steered them into.

This did not use to be the case: we could live happily in the Vista/7 UI as the pinnacle of interface beauty and functionality, with little or no reason to change things. Lest anybody try to dismiss my viewpoint as just “hating change”, bug off: my Windows career started with 3.1, which had no Start menu and no taskbar. Now, THAT interface, the first Windows interface I used, I did hate–I never knew what programs were open or how many. The introduction of the Start menu and the taskbar represented a quantum leap in usability and, for me, in satisfaction with the product. So I actually welcome change–that is, when it represents an improvement.

The UI in subsequent versions of Windows generally built on this rock-solid foundation. The height of esthetic appeal was achieved in Vista, with its Aero Glass translucence. The height of usability was reached in 7, which added jump lists of frequent/recent files and websites to taskbar items.

The downhill slide started with Windows 8, which eliminated both Aero Glass and the Start menu, replacing it with a hideous full-screen Start Page blanketed with blocky tiles. The Windows desktop, where I had lived for the previous 15 years, became just one more such tile. New touch-oriented “apps” with limited functionality were not only introduced but were made the default for opening videos, pictures, and the like. Heaven help you if you landed in one of these “apps” and wanted to close it.

Windows 10 retreated from the Start Page concept but brought in a grotesquely redesigned Start menu, with its own tiles, that stretched halfway across the screen, obscuring the instructions you might be trying to follow when directed to click on Start. Instead of a compact, easy-to-scan list, the items in All Programs were spread out vertically, requiring additional scrolling and time to locate the needed item.

Despite the clamor and pleading of Windows fans on UserVoice and in the Feedback Hub, the flat, opaque, Aero-less interface remained, to be addressed by little-known third-party solutions that in some cases (e.g., AeroGlass by Big Muscle) required an intimate familiarity with the inner working of Windows.

On top of that, Windows 10 insisted on gathering telemetry from customers, requiring not only further research into controlling it, but also the awareness that it was possible to do so.

Then in Windows 11, the taskbar items including the Start menu button have been moved to unstable locations in the center, shifting with every new item that’s opened. The taskbar and the icons on it are needlessly huge and unresizable. The taskbar and window borders remain flat and opaque. And now, users must jump through increasingly arcane and obscure hoops if they prefer not to set up a Microsoft Account.

All of this is so, unless the user (1) knows that it’s possible to change them, usually with third-party tools; (2) has the knowledge to implement such changes; and (3) has the time to invest in researching and then making the changes. None of this was an issue prior to Windows 8; there was little reason to put time and effort into improving  Windows usability.

Everything above only scratches the surface. I feel for regular Windows users who put up with these annoyances: they did not use to have to, and they should not need to become power users in order to deal with them. I feel for users and offer my sympathy, providing information and advice whenever I get the chance.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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AlexEiffel, Ascaris, Deo, Charlie, oldfry, Mothy, DrBonzo

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Cybertooth wrote:

The problem is that the user would need to know that it’s even possible to fix the messed-up UI, let alone the method for doing it. Most “normies” I’ve talked to about this, don’t know any better and simply grouse about the unwanted changes, limping along the channel that Microsoft has steered them into.

That’s always been the case with any given software that has any degree of configurability. Some will try to muddle along within the lines they have been given, even if they are not a good fit, while others will see the lines as inherently movable and will seek immediately to find out how to do it. If the means to change what is wrong are available, that is really all anyone can expect. Default options are the best guess of some software developers who are decidedly not beginners… they often do the best they can, but they often miss the mark wildly.

I did not like the Windows 7 UI out of the box. It took a great deal of work to get it “decent,” including learning how to create custom themes using a very buggy piece of paid software that was the only game in town, best I could figure.

Windows XP was the last Windows that I could fix without using aftermarket programs, but it did require quite a few changes using the registry editor and other not beginner friendly bits of the OS. I did not find it all that great right out of the box either.

Cybertooth wrote:

Then in Windows 11, the taskbar items including the Start menu button have been moved to unstable locations in the center, shifting with every new item that’s opened.

A bad choice, as it ignores the benefit of Fitts’ Law (a UI element placed in a corner is effectively of infinite size and can be hit easily and rapidly, which expands to “put commonly used UI elements in the corners”). There’s a setting to turn that off, though; no need to edit the registry at all.

The taskbar and the icons on it are needlessly huge and unresizable.

Yes, that was an issue for me too when I first tried it, and the option to return to the small icons on the taskbar was gone. I went to the site of my go-to taskbar fixer, 7+ Taskbar Tweaker, and it said that it did not and probably would not ever work with the Win 11 taskbar… but that the Win 10 one can be brought back with Explorer Patcher. So I grabbed that, and now it works as it should again.

I certainly will agree that MS should have left in the option for small taskbar icons rather than making the huge one mandatory, and that MS should not have made the 11 start button float around (violating not just one but two important UI rules… the one mentioned above, and also that UI elements should not move around and make you hunt for them) by default. The old taskbar could do everything the new one can, plus a lot more… so that was not a positive change.

That said, though, I have noticed a lot of more tech savvy people saying 11 is no good, and they are the kind of people who do realize that things can be changed, and even if they do not immediately know exactly how to do it (as I did not when I discovered that the huge taskbar could not be switched back), they know where to begin to look for the answers.

 

The taskbar and window borders remain flat and opaque.

I did see some transparency effect listed somewhere, but that’s an aesthetic thing, and certainly it was the same in Windows 10, the OS that the people in question insist they will remain with if Windows 11 does not improve.

And now, users must jump through increasingly arcane and obscure hoops if they prefer not to set up a Microsoft Account.

Yes, agreed there too, but it has been written about how to do that on this site more than once, but still there are people here who shun 11 and like 10.

 

 

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Cybertooth

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“What’s wrong with Windows 11?”
/proxy rant
WaaS is what is wrong for homeusers since windows 10, it may be suitable for business but a lot of homeusers (whether home or pro editions) dislike the framework, changing things behind your back etc. Yes, it may be in the interest of security for the OS (whatever MSFT deems as security one week, may change the next and be reflected in the rent-an-OS on next patchday)/proxy rant
Note: I’m speaking for my ‘old guard’ clients/family/ friends as the younger ones accept it, as they know no different.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Cybertooth, DrBonzo, Mothy

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Oh, I agree completely. I’m not a Windows user and I am not returning to Windows, despite not hating Windows 11 as I thought I would. My point of view is that I do not see Windows 11 as being substantially different enough from Windows 10 to warrant the “Windows 10 good, Windows 11 bad” statements that I see from users of this site and other places where more technically oriented people congregate.

My relatively positive impression of 11 is only in comparison to Windows 10. Comparing either of them to, say, Linux, well… you know what choice I made personally (it’s at the bottom of this post!), and that is as unchanging as Microsoft’s commitment to controlling other people’s hardware.

I know what full control over updates looks like, and it is not setting deferrals and active hours and metered connections. The same kind of thing can be said for monetizing a full price paid product with ads and unwanted “app” downloads, and for putting in telemetry for which there is no master “off” switch (without malicious compliance). An OS exists to enable the hardware to serve the self-defined interests of its owner. There’s no room at all for also serving the interests of Microsoft or one of its partners, even if MS tries to reframe that as also being in the interest of the hardware owner. Not one cycle of my CPU time should ever be used serving the interests of someone other than myself. If an OS cannot live up to that, I find it to be unfit for purpose.

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Please excuse me if this annoys anyone but I personally think it would be much easier to ask what is right with Win 11, and Win 10.  Then figure the average user is likely to have a problem with pretty much everything else.  MS has shot themselves in the foot so many times they now have no feet!

Being 20 something in the 70's was much more fun than being 70 something in the 20's.

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Cybertooth

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Charlie wrote:

what is right with Win 11

It is more efficient than Windows 10, which is more efficient than Windows 8.1, which is more efficient than Windows 8, etc. Although I did not retain my comparison data (I was collecting the date for my own purposes), these differences were confirmed through dual booting, comparing one OS to another doing the same things on the same hardware. Boot times are the easiest to compare. Program launch and load times are also fairly easy to time; how long is the splash screen displayed before the program is ready for input?

I’ve read a number of complaints about ads and popups and intrusive hints for signing in with a Microsoft account, but I have yet to see an ad, or any such popup. The only place I’ve seen the hint for using a Microsoft account is in Settings > System > Accounts. Needless to say, I don’t go there often, so it’s not all that intrusive.

O&O ShutUp 10 (now at ShutUp 10++) is very useful portable software for managing telemetry and other such intrusions with a single interface, as well as suggestions for the available control settings. It’s freeware, no charge for use but accepting contributions if one is pleased with the performance and usefulness. It also tracks changes made by Windows updates, and has a single button to Revert Changes. Using O&O ShutUp 10++ eliminates one of the common complaints about Windows 10/11, spying/telemetry. There are also changes in Services, Group Policy changes and changes in the registry that can be made, but O&O ShutUp 10++ is sufficient in my experience.

As for the Start Menu, there are some free alternatives mentioned here on AskWoody, as well as some inexpensive products that can eliminate the Start Menu as a concern; it can return to the Windows 7 style with XP style flyouts, if you like. As far as one having personal objections to using third party software to enhance one’s experience with Windows 11 as a matter of principle (because Microsoft didn’t), I would offer that Microsoft is not necessarily to blame for your distaste of Windows 11, it’s your principles that are holding you back from a more pleasant, familiar experience with Windows.

As far controlling the timing of updates, my experience is to maintain up to date drive images and install every update that is offered, when it is offered. Having a current drive image to restore eliminates any problems an update might cause. My Windows 11 is fully updated with everything Microsoft has to offer, and I have yet to have any issues with updates. I know that goes against the grain here at AskWoody, but I would much rather see if my hardware/software combination has a problem than to wait to see who has problems with what combination of hardware/software. I get immediate feedback, and so far it has all been positive.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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LPKing, Charlie

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What is right with Windows in general (10 or 11)?

Well… (that’s a deep subject)

They come preinstalled on a broad variety of hardware. That’s pretty big, as most people will not change the OS on their computer. I know I am not the norm here, but I have not used a laptop with the preinstalled OS since about 2006… and I have bought a lot of them. All my desktops were purchased as components and assembled by me, so there was never a preinstalled OS to keep or not keep for those.

Windows has broad compatibility with a lot of software. That’s the thing that keeps so many people in its orbit even when they don’t like a lot of other stuff about Windows. You’re also likely to find a driver for any given piece of hardware within a PC that works for Windows (though not necessarily the version of Windows you want to use).

The Acer Swift Go 14 I am using now to write this (in Linux) has a fingerprint reader that I can’t use in Linux, because its maker never made a Linux driver, and the community hasn’t stepped up and done it themselves yet. In Windows, the driver came preinstalled and presumably it works fine (never tried it).

Now, if you ask what is right about 11 compared to 10, I’d say that it looks and feels more like a coherent whole than Windows 10. Not by much; the differences are pretty minor, but the various bits of the Win 10 UI, like the “app” selector for a new file type, the Settings app itself, and other bits like that have always felt like they don’t belong, like they were tacked on rather than baked in. Maybe I am all wet here, but 11 to me actually has more of a baked-in feel, though of course the Control Panel is still there, a shadow of its former glory.

The big thing about 11 that is positive for consumers is that it has a lot of life left on the clock, whereas 10 is running out of time. They cost pretty much the same, but one will get you a lot farther down the road. If you are talking about buying a new PC, the hardware requirements of 11 will already be part of the deal.

 

 

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I’m likely in the minority, but I actually like Windows 11 slightly more than Windows 10. The OS seems to run smoother and I have less problems locating the settings that I need. Perhaps the OS running smoother is partly due to this being a new PC with higher hardware specs. Perhaps it also runs smoother since this was a new Windows 11 install instead of Windows 10 with multiple version upgrades.
What I found annoying: The start button being in the center of the screen instead of the far left. Yes, I was able to change it fairly easily, but why the change? Is Microsoft trying to look like a Mac? They say that imitation is the highest form of flattery. A friend who recently went to Windows 11 told me it took her over a half hour just to shut her PC down due to the new positioning of the start button. The revamped right context menu with icons was also annoying. I decided to not to modify it for now and see if I can learn to adjust to it.
My opinion may change when I upgrade to Windows 11 22H2 and experience the “pleasure” of “moments”.

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When my new Windows 11 PC arrived, one of the first objectives was to find out how close I could get it to “look and work like Windows 7”, as it reads in my signature line. Or, preferably, like Vista. In the process of Vistafying the UI, some combinations of customization tools didn’t work for me while others worked together well, or at least acceptably.

In case anybody else might get some benefit from the information, here are the notes I took during the process. As they say, YMMV (your mileage may vary):

First try: WindowBlinds 11 + RetroBar + OpenShell + ExplorerPatcher
Result: Start menu too dark; no jump lists in Taskbar

Second try: WindowBlinds 11 + Start11 + Explorer Patcher
Result: Start11 enables Taskbar labels while keeping jump lists, but now ExplorerPatcher made the Taskbar extremely thin and it did not enable combining StickyNotes, plus the text in Taskbar icons was black (on a black Taskbar).

Therefore, third try: WindowBlinds 11 + Start11
This works.

***IMPORTANT*** Set Settings –> Personalization –> Colors to Custom mode with a Dark default Windows mode and a Light default app mode.

WindowBlinds will enable a Vista/7 look, and RetroBar will enable Taskbar labels (rather than icons).
–> SADLY, NO JUMP LISTS w/RetroBar. Start11 does also enable Taskbar labels.

(StartIsBack is not compatible with WB.)

For classic Windows Explorer:
https://www.askvg.com/tip-enable-full-classic-file-explorer-in-windows-11/
**This tweak doesn’t seem to make any difference, nor does Classic Explorer from Open-Shell.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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AlexEiffel

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From what I read and am reading, what you get out of Win 10 and Win 11 depends a lot on how much time, effort, and frustration you’re willing to put up with just to keep your Operating System looking the way YOU want, up to date, AND working properly.  This may not bother a computer scientist, but average computer users don’t want it.

I think I’m right in saying that most people don’t want to be unpaid MS update testers either.

Being 20 something in the 70's was much more fun than being 70 something in the 20's.

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Mothy, Cybertooth

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Well, to a big degree, there is no way around having the need to go through options and do the work to customize your OS (or any other thing) if you are particular about how it works. One size does not fit all; if it did, every OS would already be perfect for us right out of the box. A given product can only have one default appearance, and for sure that will please some folks, annoy others, and leave a bunch more kind of ambivalent.

It is unfortunate that MS repeatedly takes away much-liked options, thus ensuring that the share that are annoyed is substantial. With Windows Vista, the classic cascading start menu was present and selectable by a radio button. When 7 was announced, the classic menu was gone. People complained… lots and lots of people complained. Microsoft’s reply was that the classic menu was 13 years old, having first arrived with Windows 95, and now it was time to move on.

When is it time to move on from a tool that works better for you than any other? When does using something that feels worse become the preferred thing simply because the “good” thing has reached a certain threshold of age? I am glad that cars still operate as they did decades ago when I learned to drive. It would be unfortunate if any of the carmakers had decided to change it up and make it different for no other reason than “it was time to move on.”

That statement by Microsoft came at the very start of the Windows 7 era, with that version of Windows often regarded as the best in terms of Microsoft giving users what they wanted… but the extreme arrogance and the willingness to change things without a good reason was very much in evidence even then.

Microsoft presumably axed the classic menu because the cascading menu was such an iconic bit of Windows 95, which was perceived as literally old and gray by then, and they wanted to project a vision of modernity, which at that time meant Aero (which was carried over from Vista with a slightly different color scheme).

There was no legitimate technical reason to tell people they could not have the menu they wanted. The code for it was still there (I believe in explorer.exe); it was just turned off! MS clearly wanted to make sure Windows looked “modern” on everyone’s PC, even if the users of those PCs didn’t want that. It was more important that these people’s PCs help MS sell Windows 7 than it was to allow 7 to serve its users in the way they wanted to be served.

 

 

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jb100, Cybertooth

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My Windows 7 came with three main desktop themes: Win 7 standard, Win 7 Aero, and Win 7 Classic. Yes, this is the Win XP Classic that resembles Win 95 and it did come with my Win 7 Home Premium, SP-1.  Then there is also the various color themes in Win 7.  I’m not sure, but I think Win 8.1 may have this Classic theme too.  If Classic was done away with, it was with Win 10, along with a lot of color.

In my opinion, MS’s “moving on” meant going to dull drab mostly black, white, and grey.  Even Linux Mint does better than that!

Being 20 something in the 70's was much more fun than being 70 something in the 20's.

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Mothy, Cybertooth

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MS got rid of the basic and Classic themes with Windows 8. They got rid of the classic Start Menu with Windows 7.

Windows XP and earlier did not have a compositor for handling the display. Each application was assigned its own chunk of the screen by the OS, and it was up to that application to draw that bit of the screen. That was why an application that stopped responding would draw those artifacts all over the screen when you dragged the window. It would be hundreds of copies of the title bar, menubar, and window border, overlapping a lot or a little depending on how fast you tried to drag it.

With Vista, MS introduced the DWM (desktop window manager), bringing compositing to Windows.If your PC met the hardware requirements, selecting an Aero theme would enable the compositor. You got nice smooth window movement, no tearing, and a non-responding program would not leave corpses of the dead windows all over the screen. It also allowed neat bits like thumbnails that would display the real-time content of the windows, even those in the background.

The problem was that this feature was developed at a time when MS was really pushing the branding thing (same thing that made them get rid of the classic start menu). They could have had the composited themes have fully user-selectable color controls like the classic and basic themes, but they chose not to. You would get a few basic controls, like one user-selected highlight color, and that was all.

That system has persisted to the present. Internally (inside the theme files), the composited themes are still called “aero” themes, even though they do not at all resemble the Aero Glass themes from Vista and 7. When when the DWM was new, the only composited themes were Aero, so it came to be that “Aero” = “composited.”

Microsoft dropped the basic and classic themes for Windows 8, leaving only the flat, plain-jane Aero themes that don’t look anything like Aero Glass, though the high-contrast themes are still there. These are non-composited themes too, the last ones to be included with Windows. You can still change the color of these as you wish. These are pretty ugly, and they are said to break the appearance of a lot of programs, but they are still there if needed.

 

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Explorer Patcher will fully bring back the Windows 10 taskbar, along with all of the customization options. It will also enable 7+ Taskbar Tweaker to work once again (allowing you to customize it much more than by default in Windows 7-10). There are several neat options in 7+, but the one I want the most is to get rid of hover thumbnails for tasks. Man, I loathed those things. I like a textual list of windows when I click on a combined taskbar (or panel, as we call it in Linux) button, but no hover effects.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
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jb100, Cybertooth

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Ascaris wrote:

MS got rid of the basic and Classic themes with Windows 8. They got rid of the classic Start Menu with Windows 7.

My apologies Ascaris, I mistook your reference to the classic Start Menu for the whole classic theme or look of Windows in general.  It’s called Classic, but they did change it from the Win 95.

Being 20 something in the 70's was much more fun than being 70 something in the 20's.

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I need a dual pane file explorer.

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Dajomu wrote:

I need a dual pane file explorer.

Free portable 4 pane Qdir

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Ascaris,

To answer your question, I don’t like having to use third-party tools to make Windows bearable. I have always done without. Everything should be accessible in the OS. I rip apart Windows 10 and makes it bearable without any third-party tool that needs to be installed and updated. I only use registry changes and scripts. If there is a feature update that changes some previously modified things and it bothers me, I can run my script again. It is not ideal, but I like it better than relying on a third-party and most of the time, it will be a nice to have to run the script but essential modifications will have remained.

I still think Windows 10 is quite bad on top of a pretty good Windows core, I tolerate it, I got used to it being bad and got tired of complaining without any power to change anything, I don’t find it better except it seems a bit less scary right now to get a feature update to discover what good thing they deprecated, what big low-level thing they broke (ReFS), what feature they moved to an exclusive Workstation version or to Enterprise version only, what registry setting they changed so it doesn’t work anymore on the Pro version, what bad trick they are trying to force online accounts or show me ads or Bing, etc. Things are more quiet on the update front with Windows 10 and that means a lot less things to think about, so in that sense, it got better because they stopped trying to pretend WaaS was useful with unnecessary and annoying changes. I just want to work on my computer and not have to review unwanted changes that I feel are not for my benefit but Microsoft’s, at an unwanted time and have to find workarounds if I don’t like them.

Windows 11, without third-party tools, can’t be used in a productive way as much as 10 due to the awful taskbar. I use the quick launch taskbar to keep the better very old way of managing open Windows and that is extremely important to my productivity. It’s a deal breaker. When I go on 11, I might have to resort to third party add-ons, but I really don’t like having to do that instead of just modifying Windows itself. The less outside code the better for me. Windows Search is scary too, I am afraid they will try more new bad ideas with it while it is a very important tool for me.

I agree with you the few moments I played on Windows 11 it seemed a more coherent system than 10, but it still felt like a work in progress. Anyway, the deal breaker is there, so for now I use the OS I dislike less, which is 10, the OS that will change less over the next few months.

Windows is still great in many ways if you ignore the negative aspects of 10 and 11, and there is no alternative for me anyway, having to use Office as a power user and not having time to find replacements for all the little nice tools I use on Windows.

 

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Charlie

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My biggest (but not only) complaint about both windows 10 and Windows 11 is the requirement to sign in with a Microsoft account (just to build W11 you need one now.)

My computer, my wife’s and kid’s are for our own personal use, we aren’t on a corporate network and, if heaven forbid, a HDD/SDD dies and we lose data, then it’s our own fault for not having a backup. We don’t need or desire to have every aspect of our computer usage saved, scrutinized, monetized, etc. by Microsoft. The operating system is NOT a freeware/ad-supported “Application” such as Facebook or TicTok, etc. This something we buy outright. Why should I have to log into MS just to use it?

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Cybertooth

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Maxxwell wrote:

the requirement to sign in with a Microsoft account (just to build W11 you need one now.)

You don’t need a Microsoft account for Windows 10/11.

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geekdom

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Susan Bradley wrote:

I am not a fan of chromebooks – too restrictive and the Apple ecosystem is too expensive. (Virtual headset for $3,500, come on Tim that’s way too expensive). Even at home Windows – and even with Windows 11 – is still more comfortable to use.

I’m not a fan of Chromebooks either… and I don’t see the point in trying to compare Apple’s well-established (and admittedly expensive) walled-garden ecosystem with Microsoft’s apparent attempts to create a similar ecosystem now… after years of being so very different.

Apple’s ecosystem has always been closed. By comparison, Microsoft used to be so open it was a joy to use/play/experiment – aided by the likes of MS blogs from its very own gurus like Raymond Chen (and, laterally, Mark Russinovich from 2006 until he was shunted into Azure [Bryce Cogswell… never so forthcoming]).

IMO there’s now been a complete reversal of direction to the detriment of both MS and its users.

IMO the fundamental change was Steve (‘Linux is a cancer…’) Ballmer being replaced in 2014 by Satya Nadella… who obviously looked at the money that Apple was making with its ‘free’ OS and thought ‘we can do that…”.

IMO that’s where it all started going wrong for us previously-devoted Windows enthusiasts. Now we’re just unwilling consumers of a ‘no longer cared for’ platform.

Windows 11, its UI and ‘Settings’ appears to be all about reducing people’s choices, not expanding them.

I look in from time to time but Windows 11 continues to feel like a constant work in progress that its developers have little interest in (other than adding new and untested ‘bells and whistles’ that no-one ever asked for).

It no longer feels like a platform, more like a playground. That’s not what I’m looking for in an OS.

That’s what I feel is wrong with Windsows 11. It continues to be an unfinished product ‘cos Microsoft continues to not place a stick in the evershifting sands and say ‘This is where we are’.

There’s no longer any firmament to what, in my opinion, should be a rock-steady OS platform.

In my opinion… that’s an unconscionable state of affairs.

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AlexEiffel, Cybertooth, Charlie

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Count me as one of the “typical” users that absolutely hates Windows 11.  Reading through many of the responses here I get the impression that the majority are happy to upgrade to Win 11 from Win 10.  I am not.  Almost a year ago I upgraded my desktop from Win 10 to 11.  I really tried to adapt but in the end I finally reverted back to Windows 10 where I was comfortable.

I should mention that I’m not a gamer, I don’t play with overclocking and I quit doing registry changes back with Windows 7.  I’m just the typical user that does a lot of internet searches and buys too much stuff on Amazon. I also write a lot using Word and analyze a lot of useless data on Excel spreadsheets.

I got used to Windows 10 and became comfortable with it because it just seemed fairly user friendly.  Nothing aggravates me more than trying to understand some illogical command that a super-user Microsoft developer thought “Hey, this would be really cool”.

So I purchased a new-to-me laptop with Windows 10 Pro installed and in the process of setting it up decided now would be a good time to jump back into Windows 11.  What the hell, I can do this!  No I can’t.  For the life of me I can’t fathom why they had to do some of the things they did, ignoring logic to make so many illogical changes.  Instead of focusing on user-friendliness they opted for designed-by-committee and it shows.  The power button has been in the lower left corner for ages but now it’s in the center.  Really?  You can get to a list of apps but first you have to be confronted with a window that shows most of the apps you’ll never use.  And some of the apps are incomplete or missing little logical functions.  Of course it takes getting used to but frankly I ask myself “why?”.  Why should I waste my time fighting through a completely illogical new interface when I can just go back to Windows 10 and quit wasting that valuable time?  So that’s what I’m going to do.

For those of you that “hate” Windows 10 and embrace Windows 11 and all of its “illogical newness” I can only roll my eyes and say “good for you”.  I’ve got work to do!

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Cybertooth

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To me, the MSFT WaaS framework is the culprit and not the operating systems.
(OTOH should have got Jonny Ive to design the UI intead of Fisher Price with W10 and 11)

The exception lays in gov enterprise editions, where much more control is permitted due to access of microsoft system code in large seated business in order to adapt to suit their requirements.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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Microfix wrote:

The exception lays in enterprise editions

Microsoft should allow all users to install LTSC Windows version.

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Actually no, there are no changes and especially in the Windows update plumbing, you can be many versions behind.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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Well just think of the VW bug, if it works don.t touch it.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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I bought a brand new laptop in December 2021 which I have barely used. It came with Windows 11. During that time I have probably used it 30 times. I generally used my work laptop with Windows 10 on it. You can’t even drag and drop an icon to the desctop to make a shortcut on Win 11 like you can on 10 and in general it’s unusable.

So I downgraded yesterday to Win 10 and now I will no longer use my work machine for personal use. After Win 10 I plan to buy a Mac Book.

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I have a desktop and three laptops. The last one I bought last October came with Windows 11 Pro. I created a local account with the bad password trick, and then tweaked everything with Winaero Tweaker, and now I prefer W11 to W10. Not for the features (except for security, Windows 11 does not offer anything better than the previous version), but just for the look and the settings interface. I always defer the updates at least a month so I rarely have problems caused by updates. A lot of the things people complain about in this thread can be changed easily either in the settings (like moving the taskbar and power button to the left instead of centre) or with free and easy to use third party programs (to disable telemetry, among other things). People complain it’s too difficult ? Well if you’re a member of AskWoody, you must have some interest in computers and surely the basic knowledge necessary to tweak your PC. To be honest, I found it more difficult

to tweak my Smart TV to my liking !

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What is the point of displaying a CD/DVD Drive in this section..

Does anyone actually check over prior to releasing to the masses?
[tumbleweed rolls by..]

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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You may be able to make it go away by clicking Change settings near bottom right of that window, then Choose Drives.

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

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There is no ‘change settings’, only a disfunctional ‘advanced view’ which is unticked (where that CD/DVD media should be). SFC run, no violations and DISM restorehealth did nothing. tsk [rolleyes]

still no fix to this..
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/insider/forum/all/a-new-issue-still-with-optimise-drives-post/f6d9b2cd-5738-487f-87a8-6102b7605e49?page=6

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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[b]

Microfix wrote:

There is no ‘change settings’,

That would make your Optimize Drives window different from everyone’s default* Windows 11 (and XP/7/8/10):

* edited to add “default”; otherwise “Turn on” appears instead.

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

• This reply was modified 1 month, 2 weeks ago by b. Reason: *Added "default", otherwise "Turn on" appears instead

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Perhaps too simplistic of an answer, but if the optimize schedule is turned off or disabled, you will not get a Change Settings button. Need to enable or Turn On the optimize schedule prior to being able to change settings. I did not have the “Change Settings” button either until I turned optimize back on.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Microfix, b

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b wrote:

You may be able to make it go away by clicking Change settings near bottom right of that window, then Choose Drives.

The Choose Drives button only displays drives which can be optimized, it does not display drives that cannot be optimized.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We were all once "Average Users". We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems, we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

Computer Specs

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bbearren wrote:

The Choose Drives button only displays drives which can be optimized, it does not display drives that cannot be optimized.

That’s not true for me (and according to others it’s not true for CD-ROM drives):

Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge

1 user thanked author for this post.

Microfix

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Well, no matter what conotation of settings within the ‘Defrag and Optimise Drives’ interface, the CD/DVD device still remains in this section.
FWIW, the device works as intended.

No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE

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