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  • win 10 self destruct.

    Posted on oldator60 Comment on the AskWoody Lounge

    Home Forums Outside the box Rants win 10 self destruct.

    This topic contains 6 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  anonymous 1 month ago.

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    • #128793 Reply

      oldator60
      AskWoody Lounger

      I have/had 4 computers that were updated from win 7 to win 10. The first one was working okay, until I logged in one day and there were some updates. After installing the updates. I did the final reboot and it came up with a black background, with the message that this was not a valid copy of windows. I deleted the partition. Number two was working okay, and after updating to 10 I had no internet, wired or wireless, and the machine would not turn off.  Spent 3 days looking for a solution, and there were a lot of suggestions, but nothing worked. I deleted that partition. Number 3 happened on August 2,  I installed some updates, and on the final configuring updates, it got to 73%, and the screen went black, then blue with the message that a critical error had occurred. Had nothing on the screen but a flashing cursor, and when I rebooted all I got was the flashing cursor. I deleted that partition. The one machine I have left with 10 is one I only use for Quicken. I have the internet disabled on this machine to avoid updates. All of my 9 computers are running different distros of Linux, as the main OS. They all simply work. No update problems, no high maintenance, like windows, and no surprises. I only had windows installed for the grandkids, and great grandkids to play games on. All my REAL work is done on Linux. I do a lot of audio and video editing, maintain, update a website, and general purpose use. These problems only serve to reinforce my opinion that windows is a useless, fragment of fecal material, and I am better off without it.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
    • #128841 Reply

      Noel Carboni
      AskWoody MVP

      I’m sorry to hear of your troubles.

      Out of curiosity, how old are the devices?

      Per Microsoft Marketing, we’re all supposed to start to believe that there’s no future for older hardware. Never mind that it still works, or is plenty powerful enough for our needs.

      It’s nothing short of an attempt to change our culture where the goal is that we’re supposed to feel it’s okay for expensive things to fail or just be obsolete in a scant year or two. We’re being transitioned into a future where we’re herded into the Microsoft Store to buy glued-together unserviceable Surfaces, only to throw them away and start over again before more than one or two major updates are installed.

      Computer hardware CAN work for years. It’s just better for the companies making new hardware if it doesn’t. Why not help that strategy along with software? How best to do that? Make it expensive for manufacturers to continue to support it by changing Windows all the time.

      Remember when “planned obsolescence” was a dirty phrase? The folks who believed that weren’t wrong. But they’ve long since been marginalized because the marketers who wanted it to become acceptable were persistent.

      Computers are still getting more powerful by leaps and bounds, but something funny happened… They got to be powerful enough for a lot of folks to do what they want, so new reasons had to be invented to get them to keep spending money. Accelerating the pace of everything fits right into that.

      Stuff really CAN last… I’m typing this on a 32 year old DEC LK250 keyboard and looking at what I’m typing on one of several working 13 year old Dell 2001FP monitors. The workstation is aging out at “only” 4 years of age, but I imagine it can and will serve my needs for some years to come (running Windows 8.1 because I’m certainly avoiding putting Win 10 on it).

      -Noel

      2 users thanked author for this post.
      • #128914 Reply

        oldator60
        AskWoody Lounger

        One was built in 2014. AMD 8120, 8 core processor, 12 gig ram, 1gig video card, 700 watt power supply, 500 gig HD, and 250 gig SSD. Second one was built in 2015. AMD 8350, 8 core processor, 16 gig ram, 2 gig video card, 750 watt power supply, 500 gig HD. The oldest is an AMD quad core processor, 12 gig ram, 0ne gig video card, 600 watt power supply, and was built in 2012. It is the only one with win 10 still running, and I contribute that to keeping the internet disabled. I’ve been a Linux user since 2001, and other than using Quicken, I have no need for windows at all.

      • #129069 Reply

        Ascaris
        AskWoody Lounger

        Stuff really CAN last… I’m typing this on a 32 year old DEC LK250 keyboard and looking at what I’m typing on one of several working 13 year old Dell 2001FP monitors. The workstation is aging out at “only” 4 years of age, but I imagine it can and will serve my needs for some years to come…

        I loathe the planned-obsolescence economy.  I’ve become somewhat obsessed with upgrading and maintaining my Vista era laptop that I bought new in 2008, to the point that the money I’ve spent on it cumulatively would have bought a significantly higher-spec, newer laptop, but what fun is it just to go out and *buy* something already ready to roll?

        Pardon me if you’ve already seen this, as I have posted about it several times and I have no idea which sites got which posts, but it started life as an Asus F8Sp laptop.  It had a 2 GHz T5750 CPU (Core 2 Duo) which I upgraded to a T7800 (2.6 GHz), which has the same 35W TDP rating. Cost about a dollar a watt for that CPU, which was supposedly new (it looked like it was when I got it, but it’s hard to know for sure).

        The laptop came with 3GB DDR2 RAM (maximum stated of 4GB both by Asus and Intel, maker of the PM965 chipset within), which I upgraded to 8GB (this was the lion’s share of the expense for a long while, as DDR2 4GB modules, DIMM or SoDIMM, are more expensive than I’d wished, at $150 for the pair at a local electronics big box store).  It works perfectly, even though it’s supposedly not possible to add that much RAM.

        I replaced the ATI HD3650 1GB GPU with a nVidia GT220M 1GB, purchased on eBay (where I got the CPU too) for $50 with shipping. Initially, it wasn’t about performance as much as me wanting to start the transition to Linux in case MS never wises up with Windows 10.  The newest Linux driver for the ATI (now AMD) card is so old that no recent Linux release will work with it, whereas nVidia cards of the same age/generation were still getting driver releases.  Linux has open-source video drivers for both of these GPUs,  but they’re slow compared to the proprietary ones.

        According to the published specs, the 220M is supposed to have a lower TDP spec than the HD3650, but I think that was erroneous; the temps were no lower with the nVidia, and the ability of the stock HSF to cope with the power demand was just barely capable of handling the GPU and CPU at full blast without allowing them to exceed Tmax, which is expected in a laptop, particularly a 14 incher like this.  I think the TDP was identical to the ATI/AMD in reality.

        That GPU upgrade was quite a saga (initially I wrote it all here, but it was far too long in a message that is already very long, and not really where I was trying to go with this message; anyone interested let me know and I will post it somewhere else on the site).  In that process I ended up doing something stupid and I bricked my motherboard… I bought a used one from eBay from an F8Sn, which looks externally the same as my F8Sp but came from the factory with an nVidia card, so I consider that the new laptop is an F8Sn now, the sticker on the bottom notwithstanding.

        The storage on the now-F8Sn is now a Samsung 850 Evo 1TB SSD (2.5″).  I got a great deal on it on black Friday 2016 ($229), but it’s still even more expensive than the 8GB RAM… but unlike that RAM, it’s something that can easily be repurposed outside of this or any laptop.  8GB DDR2 in SoDIMM won’t do my Sandy desktop any good.  At first, I thought it would be a waste to stick a 550MB/sec SSD in a SATA2 laptop that tops out at ~250-300 MB/s, but then I realized that it’s not the sequential burst speed that determines the speed most of the time.  The 4k random benchmark is a lot more representative, where the physical seek time of a rust spinner pales in comparison to an SSD, particularly this one.

        The F8Sn and Sp both came with the Intel 4965AGN wifi card, and this thing has been trouble since the start.  I never actually ran the Vista setup that the F8 came with; it was downgraded to XP less than an hour after the box was opened, and under XP, it was troublesome (and a replacement one was exactly the same).

        After upgrading to 7, it didn’t get any better; I was having all kinds of throughput and connectivity dropouts, and a visit to the Intel forum showed that I was far from the only one with that issue.  It was thought by most of the people to be a driver issue (some suggested heat, but it never even got warm, let alone hot; my infrared thermometer indicated it was probably being heated up by the temp inside the case, not the other way round), and even with people reporting this bug to them, Intel chose to cut off driver support before it was ever fixed.  The bug was still an issue on the last Win 7 driver released, and there never was a Windows 8.1 one (there were rumors of one in the Windows Update system, but I never saw it).  That did not sit well with me…

        I bought a Qualcomm/Atheros Mini PCIE wifi card of the same spec (dual band N) out of a Chromebook on eBay for 3 dollars, shipped.  It was about the same age as the Intel it replaced, but Qualcomm is STILL releasing new drivers for it.  It worked perfectly, and if I was still using 7, it would still be in the laptop now.

        But I’m not.  I’m using Windows 8.1, and while the QC driver works just as well in 8.1 as it does in 7, it lacks a wireless manager utility.  I modified my old Compaq/HP laptop to accept a super-G Atheros card back in the XP days, and Atheros had a wireless manager utility then, but now they’ve said it’s no longer necessary, since Windows has gotten ever so much better.

        Windows XP’s wireless manager is about a hundred times better than what 8.1 has, so if that wasn’t good enough back then (and it wasn’t; I want detailed info before I associate… MAC ID, channel, more than just the SSID), there’s even more need for it now.  Win 8.1 gives me SSID name and signal strength, and that’s it.  In a hideous Metro dialog that’s comically large (in case I have a touch screen, you know.  One that’s five inches across.)

        I remembered the Intel Proset Wireless utility I’d used with the 4965AGN, and I made sure it still existed.  It does!  So off I went to buy another Intel card.  This time I think I had to pony up a full 12 dollars or something like that, but I got a 7260 dual-band N.

        It works about as well as the Qualcomm.  I’m just wary that Intel will abandon it as they did the previous one.  The 7260 the same spec as the 4965 even though it’s three generations newer, so Intel can’t really say they abandoned the 4965 because of obsolescence.

        Finally… the F8Sn came with a 1440×900 display, while the F8Sp came with a 1280×800.  I’ve never particularly liked the color rendering on the AU Optronics display in the unit, and lately I had become hyperaware of a sickly yellow or brown tint in the bottom center of the screen.  I found another display of the same part number on (you guessed it…eBay) for 12 dollars shipped, and when I picked up the package at the post office, it was a soft Tyvek envelope/pouch with bubble wrap inside.  If you know how fragile these LCD panels are, you’d know why I was nervous opening it… I considered taking a video of it for proof of damage in case it ever came to that.

        Well, the screen was destroyed.  It was cracked left to right, and had a bad dent on the metal frame surrounding the panel.

        I wrote a message to the seller, thanking him for the fast shipping but letting him know it was inadequately packed, hoping for a refund and not a fight, and he was really very good about it, and said he’d take my advice about packing in the future.

        I ordered right then a 1440×900 panel, new, from a place that knew enough to show the sturdy packaging they were going to use.  While that was on its way, I tried to transplant the CCFL lamp from the damaged display (the lamp was fine) to my display (the CCFL was coated in a brown goo, perhaps assembly glue, and when powered it emitted a sickly glow that was clearly the source of the discoloration), but I was not able to complete it.  I knew my first try at it would probably fail; that was why I tried to buy a whole new panel rather than a CCFL lamp alone in the first place.

        The 1440×900 display didn’t work at first, as the seller had warned it might not.  Not very well, anyway– every other vertical column of pixels was blank (black).  I could still read the BIOS messages in their 80 column glory, but the much smaller text within Windows was a lot harder to read.

        Actually, the seller had said in his listing that the panel won’t work to upgrade the resolution, as previous customers had tried it and had poor results.  I knew, though, that my motherboard was initially paired with a display of the 1440×900 resolution, so… well, it had to be the flex cable for the display.  Nothing else was different between the two models.

        I looked at the part number on mine and on one from the F8Sn on (that online auction site, what was its name??), and sure enough, the part number was 1 digit different.  The one from the F8Sn had “WXGA+” on the same sticker that contained the part number, whereas mine had no such description (WXGA=1280×800; WXGA+=1440×900).  Seeing that was an “aha” for sure, but the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.

        Got that item for 5 dollars from you know where… worked beautifully with my new LCD panel.

        I have gotten a lot of stuff from eBay!  Of course, it’s not really one source, as I got them from many different sellers on eBay, but… well, you know what eBay is.

        It’s really a great little PC.  Very stable, fast enough for general use and light gaming even, nice keyboard (non-chicklet), easy to work on (I could get the motherboard out in about 15 minutes, taking my time, and the LCD in probably a little under that)… and it’s more “mine” now that I’ve had it apart, modified it every way I can, hacked its BIOS (I also added the newest Intel microcode for my CPU), even effectively changed its model number!

        I do that with everything I own that matters to me, really.  If it’s worth being interested in, it’s worth modifying… and that applies to software as well as hardware.  (So, you can see that Apple iDevices are probably not on my Christmas list)

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #128870 Reply

      DAVe3283
      AskWoody Lounger

      This bugs me in more areas of life than just computers. I have an old dual-processor Pentium 3 box in the garage I use to listen to internet radio, look up service manuals, and run my CNC mill. It is fast enough to do all those things, but I am going to have to abandon even Windows 7 soon. Firefox recently dropped support for non-MMX processors, Chrome long before it, and without an ad blocker, Internet Explorer is dog slow on most pages anymore. (Amusingly, Windows 7 is the most recent version that will actually run on a Pentium 3, but WSUS keeps offering to install Windows 10 Enterprise, which can’t actually boot without MMX.)

      Sure, for about $250 I could replace it with a cheap fanless PC (Qotom units are actually quite nice, IMO). But why? The hardware works fine! I’ll probably swap to Linux and compile Firefox myself as an exercise, and save that $250 toward projects.

      But it isn’t just PCs where the software seems to be taking steps backwards. I have a 2003 GMC pickup truck, and purchased a 2013 Chevy Cruze new. The software on the dashboard and radio was utterly unreliable. The entire radio would crash if I plugged in my phone, freezing the audio source and volume until I turned off the car and opened a door! Several times, the dash board crashed. The gauges would freeze or drop to 0, and the screen appeared to go blank. But shining a flashlight on it revealed “LOW RAM”:
      IMG_20130123_182724

      I got so tired of the hundreds of “little” annoyances like that, so I sold the car and got a 1998 Pontiac, which has, strangely, been more reliable, and far more enjoyable.

      While this seems like a tangential rant, I fully believe the forces shaping Windows 10 into what it is are present in other industries, and are alienating a subset of the population who have the crazy expectation that things should work. Are we crazy for expecting things to work until something physically wears out?

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      • #128961 Reply

        oldator60
        AskWoody Lounger

        I know where you are coming from, Dave. I bought my first computer in 1981, a Commodore VIC-20. Got it for the kids to play games on. Their Atari 2600 spent more time at the factory getting fixed, than they spent using it. Vic-20 worked great then, and I still have it, and it still works great. Moved to Texas in 1984, and later on bought a Commodore 64, and it is still working great. Added a Commodore 128 D in 1987 and it still works great. Commodore went out of business in 1991, and I bought my first PC, windows 3.0. It worked okay for about 6 months, and slowed to a crawl. Asked around and everyone said get Norton Utilities. Worked fine as long as I kept it defragged. until about a year later. Then I was told I needed to reinstall windows. Well I limped along until November, 1994, and then got an IBM Aptiva with windows 95. It turned out to be worse than 3.0, then windows 98 was a small improvement. Got a virus in 1999, with a fully updated system, with Norton antivirus. I had heard about Linux, but everyone said it was a real pain to install. Then in 2001, at the age of 61, I found a copy of Mandrake 7.2 in WalMart, $24.96. Bought it and after quite a few attempts to install, got it running, and have never looked back. Using windows I came to expect there would be problems, and I wasn’t disappointed. After using Linux for awhile, I don’t expect any hiccups, and so far it has been flawless.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #129796 Reply

      anonymous

      If you think about it. Planned obsolescence was started by Apple and devices like the iPad and iPhone. Devices with no upgrade potential, batteries glued in, a planned end of life with also just enough next generation improvements to get you to buy into it. Remember how for a while Apple Mac’s still had replaceable  batteries, had memory that you could upgrade, as well as the storage drive.  PC notebooks also for the most part up until Microsoft decided it needed to get into the tablet business had PC makers making basically very upgradable PC’s. Now of course we have devices like the Surface with a almost impossible path to upgrade. Its even difficult to repair, let alone upgrade. Just about every PC maker has followed suit with thin, unrepairable, non upgradable devices and even desktops have become all in one’s which are almost as bad as notebooks. Apple of course started this with the iMac’s a truly bad choice when the screen will far out live the hardware inside. Repairs again almost ridiculous to even consider. For a world who obsesses with conserving our planet, we must be hypocrites when it comes to electronics. Because we don’t keep anything as long as we used too and electronic makers seem to have steered us into this early retirement of devices.

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