Win 7, 8.1 customers getting hit by the old KB 2952664 ‘Get Windows 10’ telemetry patchPosted on woody Comment on the AskWoody Lounge
This topic contains 125 replies, has 14 voices, and was last updated by Mike in Texas 3 weeks, 2 days ago.
October 5, 2016 at 7:47 am #32703
It’s back, tho its purpose isn’t clear. Why does Microsoft keep digging itself into the same hole? InfoWorld Woody on Windows UPDATE: I just got a nud
[See the full post at: Win 7, 8.1 customers getting hit by the old KB 2952664 ‘Get Windows 10’ telemetry patch]
October 5, 2016 at 8:39 am #32704
Mike in Texas
Showed up when I did a manual check on updates this A.M.
I don’t know if this is something Microsoft has planned all along, or is a knee-jerk reaction to Win10/Decline & Win7/Increase last month.
I will *never* just install all windows patches and am also wary of “Security Updates”, which I think I will hide and wait a week or two after checking here and other places.
After the Yahoo revelation (makes me think of previous “Carnivore” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnivore_(software) I’m wary of what MS might alter/sneak in as part of a “Security Update”.
MS has itself to thank for many of it’s customer’s negative perceptions.
Just did two image backups and a restore point, which I do twice a month.
October 5, 2016 at 8:42 am #32705
The update was not dead or taken down to be surprised 😀
and 2952664 originally released way before GWX
it’s just new version of already available patch, install it or hide it and move on 🙂
October 5, 2016 at 8:46 am #32706
Just to see if we’re still paying attention…squirrel!
October 5, 2016 at 8:50 am #32707
As I posted here on October 3 (in the DEFCON3 thread below), KB2952664 was listed among the available updates on both of my Win7 computers when I updated them that morning.
October 5, 2016 at 8:54 am #32708
Either they are so stupid it can not be understood, or so smart I (and a lot of others) can not figure out why they would do this, again! Do they really like self-harm?
October 5, 2016 at 8:55 am #32709
somehow my email address got dropped
October 5, 2016 at 8:56 am #32710
@ Woody I think that the purpose of MS is very clear. The revival of the dreaded KB 2952664, 2976978 is clear and clicking on info on each goes to MS site and explains the “what” for each. AND due to your article on Yahoo, I think that the comment from another magazine article, that I sent you, is about “right on”!
October 5, 2016 at 8:59 am #32711
Well said Woody…… you know sitting side by side in Optionals is also the patch to remove GWX. Now why are 2 patches like that offered. One to check
compatibility to upgrade and the second one to remove the where with all to do so. I find that rather illogical and strange to say the least. LT
October 5, 2016 at 9:01 am #32712
Best case scenario attempting to verify the numbers RE: usage/install’s flat-lined or worst case scenario nag msg’s, as for the invasive antics i think past litigation may well have dampened any future ardour.
October 5, 2016 at 9:03 am #32713
Lol, combinded with the MS “patchocalypse” this has become something between a farce and a Greek tragedy.
Indeed, KB2952664 re-appeared today as optional for my W7 laptop. Do you think we’re going to need a new GWX Control Panel?
October 5, 2016 at 9:17 am #32714
I, for one, have had it with Microsoft Windows. Period. I bought and paid for a Windows 7 and Windows 8 license. For over a year now, Microsoft Windows has been a complete pain in the butt. I did not realize at the time, this is what I would be buying. The release of Windows 10 pushed me to learn Linux. I now use Linux exclusively for all online computer work. I use Windows 7 and 8 strictly offline. I do not trust Microsoft in the least. This sure is a waste of two operating systems that used to be great.
October 5, 2016 at 9:38 am #32715
“Why does Microsoft keep digging itself into the same hole?”
coz its OH-SO-LOTS of FUN 🙂
the only lesson human learn from history
human did not learn anything from history
now that those “human” are more “advance”
its now upgraded to –
human do not want to learn anything from history
(espacially when they can get away from being accountable and they do not have skin in the game aka share the pain of the user)
its a question of ethics and law
not to mention to question the definition and core of
– what does it mean to be a human
(as compare to what we define and seperate ourself/human from a animal)
btw the hole is for the user…. you realise that ya???!
October 5, 2016 at 9:38 am #32716
I think it’s absurd that anybody with an inkling of intelligence would even entertain the thought that M$ was giving up on stuffing this “upgrade” down Win 7 user’s throats!
For those of you choosing to reside in Group A there’s no doubt in my mind that the new update routine will at some point in time turn your Win 7 OS into Win X Lite!
October 5, 2016 at 9:42 am #32717
Think they give a hoot? Satya Nadella just got his $18M salary including a $4.5M bonus.
When they can get rich off just one years income, do you think these guys really give a **** about what we think?
October 5, 2016 at 9:42 am #32718
It showed up on my Win 7 load as an unchecked optional, no sign of 3035583 yet…
October 5, 2016 at 9:45 am #32719
I don’t think we’ll need a new GWX Control Panel. Microsoft doesn’t seem to be pushing Win10 on unsuspecting machines. It merely seems to be gathering the intelligence necessary to do so.
October 5, 2016 at 9:45 am #32720
October 5, 2016 at 9:49 am #32721
I was looking for the description of the “old” 2952664 – something before 3035583 – and couldn’t find it. By any chance, do you know where it could be found?
October 5, 2016 at 9:53 am #32722
This time around it probably includes massive plumbing for the upcoming cumulative horror-Tuesday next week..I’m also quite sure that there will be an annoucement in the coming weeks that Windows 10 FREE UPGRADE is back on the menu, INDEFINITELY. But thanks again for the heads up, that “update” is again hidden on my one remaining Windows pc and after that NEVER CHECK FOR UPDATES is my choice and BITS, Windows Modules Installer and Windows Update services are now deactivated, INDEFINITELY. This machine will never ever get another update from Microsoft.
October 5, 2016 at 10:20 am #32723
It was similar to current one, but without details
here’s the very first revision of its article dated April 22, 2014:
October 5, 2016 at 10:21 am #32724
Woody> I often wonder why Microsoft fans the flames in an already awful situation.
Nadella just got a 124% bonus, with annual income totaling 17 million. Apparently screwing its customers is considered good business, so why should MS stop? (This is apropos the rise in the stock).
Complaints by users have no chance against this. Only collective ACTION that affects stock price and the income of top mgmt. will have any effect. Like shutting off WU completely and class action suits.
October 5, 2016 at 10:46 am #32725
Looks like hiding the KB2952664 update stops it being offered again
October 5, 2016 at 10:56 am #32726
Version 1, April 22, 2014: “This update helps Microsoft make improvements to the current operating system in order to ease the upgrade experience to the latest version of Windows”
October 5, 2016 at 11:05 am #32727
Oh wow. This telemetry thing is working so well that Microsoft was able to get rid of many testers and create an even more than before seamless patching process for Windows 10. By knowing everything about everyone, they avoid all issues specific to particular hardware combinations. If it is not working perfectly, it is because of you guys, because you disable it on your machines so don’t complain. It is so great that they don’t have to describe the patches clearly anymore and they can avoid paying people to do that, so that is why they can offer Windows for free. Now they decided to port that amazing feature to older Windows version so we all benefit from that. Don’t complain.
We are living in such a great era for computing. And Bing will beat Google soon, just a bit later than Satya expected when he was still working on it. When Windows phones take over the world, we will have such a great uniform experience across all devices using the productivity-inducing universal apps. The desktop is dead. Who needs a PC when you have the whole Internet of things to enjoy? Some people just don’t get it. Soon, we won’t even have to think because we will be able to outsource much of that task to Cortana. Satya did such a good job seeing that the future is in mobile first for businesses, just like he was a visionary when his team was bragging that Bing would soon render Google obsolete after a few years ago. They are just a bit too ahead of the world.
You know the market is always right so if you look at Microsoft stock since Satya arrived, you will see that there are huge expectations that someday his strategy will pay off. In fact, the price/earning ratio is much higher than Apple, so that’s proof that Microsoft will make much more money than Apple in the future.
In the meantime, though, things aren’t so great. Someone called me yesterday because its Brother printer stopped being recognized after he “received an update from Microsoft”. I remember when upgrading him from 7 to 10, we had to reinstall the same old Brother driver, because the update broke it. Looking at his computer, I found that anniversary update had installed, so I guess I will have to reinstall the same very old driver again, plus remove all those wonderful applications that just takes up a bit too much space in his Start Menu since he doesn’t use them, adjust some privacy settings that he certainly changed himself since I updated him to Windows 10 (Microsoft respects our privacy so they would never mess with those settings while upgrading) and remove some new features that are not perfect yet.
October 5, 2016 at 11:16 am #32728
Bill C.AskWoody Lounger
Keep in mind, now that Corporations are “people,” they will never learn and ALWAYS do as they wish…, until it costs them money from losing customers or litigation.
BTW, Apple is going to go the pushed upgrade route.
Apple to automatically cram macOS Sierra into Macs – ‘cos that worked well for Windows 10
October 5, 2016 at 11:57 am #32729
I never deleted GWX Control Panel from my machine, and I’m rather glad it’s still around.
I’ll be doing a Group B for the online stuff, with a machine running for critical/financials on Group W and kept offline. Long term, the online machine(s) will be Linux. Slackware works for me; did a lot with Unix and Linux some years ago.
Must look to see if I can set up Win 7 to talk to other machines and the printer on the LAN, but to ignore the Internet access.
October 5, 2016 at 12:12 pm #32730
KB2952664 has not shown up on my Windows 8.1, but KB2979678 did show up as an optional update this morning.
October 5, 2016 at 12:19 pm #32731
Yeah, I saw that. Amazing, isn’t it?
October 5, 2016 at 12:22 pm #32732
MSFT P/E = 20
AAPL P/E = 13
October 5, 2016 at 12:28 pm #32733
@woody I just Googled KB 2952664 and google sent me to Microsoft’s official site for the description of said KB. It would be easier for you to decipher.
October 5, 2016 at 2:18 pm #32734
this is pure 2cent rant –
@woody if you dont allow the comment and link
– pls reject it
from the east sometimes as fellow human
I am seriously worried for you, the west
and also the east
since the gov of your side
keeps coming over here to “make a point”
but let them play out as they would play out
as per destiny
this still-breaking-down-problem is deeper darker than most want to know
but perhaps some of you may want to wake up abit and wonder why on a world scale
– pertaining this w10 saga and the lot
SOCIAL ENGINEERING & ELITE MIND CONTROL! DARK JOURNALIST & DR. JOSEPH FARRELL
i think they have a point
whatever they do – the programing of social condition –
is more sinister than meets the eyes
again you know I still hold on to the theory of kill switch
it aint a profit issue anymore
if one looks at the world stage and financial market
(there is no market anyway and CEO dont get pay for productivity they get pay for comminting legal “crime” and destroying peace – creating problems so they can sell more ‘solution’ – just like the central bankers)
now in the final stage it seems
they are playing for end-of-days who-blink-first
they may need all the hardware they can get-borrow-steal-hack to DDos or counter ddos
why else are they locking down all our hardwares?
you know ms fb tw the lots are c1a sponsored and controled operation rite?
social media is now a weapon (fact)
at the end of the day,
“WE” common ppl just want to live in peace and a sense of freedom
but “THEY” may have a different plan from the untouchable high above
still none can escape destiny if/as there is no freewill
(google Friedrich Nietzsche and Free Will if interested)
if anyone can escape destiny
then one can also choose their birth
and hence their death (or if they so choose to – eternal life on earth)
p/s to date which rich man is not sponsoring the immmortality project in hope of defying “destiny”?
the group A-B-W is a non-issue
if there is not electricity
again 2cent rant only – so dont lose your sleep over it 🙂
be safe dear fren in the west and your family
October 5, 2016 at 2:19 pm #32735
What is this “Windows Update Analytics” you talk about Woody?
October 5, 2016 at 2:28 pm #32736
“….often wonder why Microsoft fans the flames in an already awful situation.”
George Carlin’s joke comes to mind.
“Why does a dog lick his ****?”
“Because he can!”
October 5, 2016 at 2:43 pm #32737
“Must look to see if I can set up Win 7 to talk to other machines and the printer on the LAN, but to ignore the Internet access.”
I was thinking the same thing and couldn’t quite figure out how. If you succeed, please let us all know.
October 5, 2016 at 3:03 pm #32738
To add on to what I recently asked, if I’ve not heard of Windows Update Analytics until now, is it something I need?
October 5, 2016 at 3:40 pm #32739
Only if you have a bunch of PCs on your network that need to be upgraded from Win7 to Win10.
October 5, 2016 at 4:22 pm #32740
PKCanoAskWoody MVP2 pts
I wonder why it is on WU and not just WSUS???
Must be lagnaippe for MS (that’s a La. word) if the public installs it!!
October 5, 2016 at 5:08 pm #32741
(It’s a great word!)
I have an update coming to the article momentarily.
October 5, 2016 at 6:41 pm #32742
In response to the update on the update, folks could probably leave it hidden until next weeks “tragic-tuesday” and see if it affects the yield/quality of Win updates simply by cross referencing what you have on yours by the amount of problems folks are inevitably going to have in here. Who knows you may even dodge a bullet by doing that if you havent set WUD accordingly.
October 5, 2016 at 6:50 pm #32743
October 5, 2016 at 7:22 pm #32744
Yep. That’s the one. My InfoWorld post should be updated shortly.
October 5, 2016 at 7:36 pm #32745
No question. It is definitely related. This marketing effort is a tipoff for why this is being done. The value of the data they are collecting is huge, and given over to MS by you and I for free, using our hardware.
They can even send a sales person directly to a specific PC owner.
That is to say the least of the power of selling advertisers on how their advertisements can be targeted at specific computers based on the profile on file. Just imagine… You just did a search looking for a dishwasher and suddenly up pops an add right in your face. OR, an investment portfolio manager targeting potential clients. The possibilities are endless. CIA has nothing on this. Snowden could have a field day.
October 5, 2016 at 8:02 pm #32746
“Bottom line: If you want to upgrade your Windows 7/8.1 PC to Windows 10, and haven’t already done so, you’re being set up to pay full price for the privilege. If you want to keep Windows 10 off your machine, don’t install KB 2952664 (Win7) or KB 2976978 (Win 8.1).”
How will Microsoft make you pay? Forced debit?
October 5, 2016 at 8:48 pm #32747
Free upgrades ended a long time ago – at least officially. (Are the old Win7/8.1 keys still working?)
Microsoft has reassured me that this is not a harbinger of another Get Windows 10 push. The updates should be posted to the InfoWorld blog shortly.
October 5, 2016 at 9:18 pm #32748
The fact is, the 2952664 was not even useful as a “check” to see if your PC was ready for an upgrade. The number of times that I’ve heard about people whose upgrades crashed due to incompatible hardware or passed only for it to then disable all incompatible devices, including sound/audio and network devices is staggering. So it didn’t even claim to do what it did. Blocked forever.
October 5, 2016 at 9:59 pm #32749
I noticed the Second Update from Microsoft in your article. I am wondering though why KB2952664 and its associated update KB3150513 and also KB3021917 have never been offered to Windows 2008 R2 Server and only to Windows 7. It is very usual that Windows Update patches are released in common as the two operating systems share a lot in common.
The other 2 patches discussed as potentially harmful KB3068708 and KB3080149 are released for the server as well, which makes them a lot less susceptible to have anything to do with Windows 10 upgrade, forced or voluntary.
I am suggesting keeping an eye on KB3021917 as the description says clearly:
“This update performs diagnostics in Windows 7 Service Pack 1 (SP1) in order to determine whether performance issues may be encountered when the latest Windows operating system is installed. Telemetry is sent back to Microsoft for those computers that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program (CEIP). This update will help Microsoft and its partners deliver better system performance for customers who are seeking to install the latest Windows operating system.”
KB3021917 may be benign and comply with CEIP admin settings, although I cannot find it useful either.
October 5, 2016 at 10:24 pm #32750
It is voluntary this time. You buy the license for Win 10 if interested and install whatever Microsoft says that is needed to have a smooth upgrade, which generally mean all released patches to date, in this context it is about KB2952664.
At least this is the idea.
October 5, 2016 at 10:50 pm #32751
Disable DNS. Have it point to an IP address that does not exist. That will keep it from going anywhere on the Internet. Communicate to the LAN using IP addressing.
October 5, 2016 at 11:49 pm #32752
I can confirm that 2952664 has shown up under the Optional section on Win7. I’m probably not gonna touch it until the next time MS-DEFCON’s at 3 or lower as I already did all of the September ones, including the out of band ones a couple of weeks ago that appeared before this did.
October 6, 2016 at 12:30 am #32753
Group B -I hid it.
October 6, 2016 at 12:56 am #32754
James Bond 007AskWoody Lounger
KB2952664 and KB2976978 are immediately hidden on all my computers.
Do you believe what Microsoft is saying over this issue, that this is not related to “Get Windows 10”? I don’t.
I still believe it is quite possible that Microsoft will initiate “Get Windows 10” again sometime in the future, and that we must not let down our guard.
How many times has Microsoft “reassured” or “stated” something only to renege later?
The Skylake-Windows-7-to-end-support-in-2017 debacle is just a recent example. Microsoft was forced to eat its words a few months later.
I will say it again : I don’t see how we can trust Microsoft again for anything it may choose to say or do, especially after the GWX debacle.
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
October 6, 2016 at 1:40 am #32755
Thanks for the warning.
October 6, 2016 at 3:03 am #32756
I don’t mean to be a pest, Woody, but your IW blog post does seem to be updated, and I still can’t tell whether I should install this patch or not (I hid it when it popped up yesterday).
I have one desktop PC that is my “main” PC; it’s running Windows 7 Home Premium Version 6.1 (Build 7601: Service Pack 1). I never thought I’d say this, but I’m in Group “A.”
I successfully staved off the GWX onslaught with GWX Control Panel, and this box is/seems to be fairly well updated, with the “bad” patches uninstalled or never installed in the first place; I’m also running Anti-Beacon.
Now M$ is doing the FUD dance on my brain and I’m wondering if I should reinstall GWX Control Panel, and whether or not I should unhide and install KB 2952664. I’m also wondering if it really makes a difference, as M$ seems hellbent-for-leather on having its way with some of us, and come next Tuesday, all bets are off.
Again, I apologize for being a pain, but this crap flowing from M$ just ain’t fair, man. 🙁
October 6, 2016 at 5:18 am #32757
Not a pain at all. There was a mis-communication between me and the editors – the lead of the article has been changed to indicate that Microsoft has said there’s no “Get Windows 10” campaign coming. But the details in an Update have not been added, as of 3:00 am Pacific time. Here’s what it will say:
UPDATE: A Microsoft spokesperson sent this comment:
“There is no Get Windows 10 or upgrade functionality contained in this update. This KB article is related to the Windows Update and the appraiser systems that enables us to continue to deliver servicing updates to Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 devices, as well as ensure device and application compatibility.”
That matches everything I’ve heard about this version of the patch. KB 2952664 doesn’t appear to be paving the way for another GWX firestorm; there’s no reason to break out Josh Mayfield’s GWX Control Panel. But it sure would’ve helped if Microsoft had documented this change in KB 2952664’s long history.
Susan Bradley notes that this patch provides the telemetry necessary to run the Windows Upgrade Analytics service, which many organizations are using to catalog Windows, applications and drivers on their machines.
October 6, 2016 at 5:21 am #32758
Interesting. I hadn’t noticed that.
October 6, 2016 at 5:44 am #32759
dont believe “fair” is in m$’s dictionary or vocabulary
definitely not in thier interest 🙂
but again “fair” is an illusion
since for one to take, another must lose
the basic law of energy
“fair” in an emotional response
the deal is the user got ‘juiced up’
for so many decades for “free” stuff
– updates, upgrades, service calls, help lines
one just got use to it and demand that as ‘norm’
as oppose to view it as “bait and tied down”
but as per the user agreement
when we “tick” to activate we volunteer our mechine/data over,
so the deal/reality is exactly opposite
we have forgo/lost everything legally – rights as user espacially
– and even rights as a person in the wider common law
maynot/dont apply in corporations territory
since some ultra corporation is a sovereign
so again it comes back to the core of the matter
– law and ethics
and a deeper sense “what makes a human”
if the user is treated as chips/tradables in the market place
what difference is it from millions of cattles kept in the ranch
as long as they are within the fence and not “outside”?
whatever that is within the ranch
is subject to the “law” witnin the ranch
no cow nor cattle gets to make or argue or complain the “law”
October 6, 2016 at 5:57 am #32760
None of the compatibility patches released in the last 18 months have been proved to be useful for their declared purpose, so what’s the point?
October 6, 2016 at 6:36 am #32761
October 6, 2016 at 6:41 am #32762
There is a reason why KB2952664/KB3021917 are the only windows10-related updates that are not included in Convenience Rollup KB3125574 😉
October 6, 2016 at 7:35 am #32763
Just ignore it. It isn’t checked, you don’t need to do anything.
October 6, 2016 at 8:14 am #32764
Funny, thought, that for all those months that we – with your help – tried to keep W10 at bay, Microsoft never reached out to answer your questions. And now they suddenly do, and quite speedily as well. They should have done this all those past months!
October 6, 2016 at 8:40 am #32765
Just read the “new” description of the telemetry update KB 2952664 and outside of the description being 4 or 5 sentences shorter, it seems that MS is saying that we are just greasing the the wheels. Just checked for updates on my machine ancd there are none.
October 6, 2016 at 9:10 am #32766
“Are the old Win7/8.1 keys still working?”
Yes they are, at least until very recently according to what I read. (I haven’t tried it).
October 6, 2016 at 9:17 am #32767
Just so’s y’all know that we are not alone in this Windows curse.
Take a look at the article in The Register, “Is Apple’s software getting worse or what?” and the accompanying comments.
October 6, 2016 at 9:42 am #32768
Amen. People inside Microsoft are afraid to speak plainly to “the enemy” (‘tho I would submit that I’ve done far more to help MS than hinder them, over the years). I can’t blame them for that.
October 6, 2016 at 9:50 am #32769
PKCanoAskWoody MVP2 pts
I think Microsoft is perpetrating ANOTHER ILLUSION for their benefit and to SUGAR-COAT THE TRUTH as they have been doing for the past (at least) two years since the inception of GWX. Whereas there may be no GWX reincarnation associated with KB2952664 now, the facts remain:
1. The MS article for KB2952664 states “This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program.” For those who have opted-out of CEIP, KB2952664 has been known to go around the opt-out choice and send data to MS without User permission as shown in Scheduled Tasks “Application Experience,” “Autochk,” and “Customer Experience Improvement Program.”
2. If KB2952664 is to help businesses upgrade multiple computers to Win10 through a paid Update Analytics Service, it should be distributed through WSUS, NOT WU where unsuspecting uninformed Average Users may check and install it (even if it’s optional). And who knows when it will be turned into a checked important update – maybe next patch Tuesday
3. Those installing KB2952664 from WU, unknowingly, through ignorance, or by the default Automatic Updates (if it becomes a checked important update), are not benefited. Those who wanted to upgrade to Win10 did so while it was free. And many, who were tricked or forcefully upgraded, are not happy with Win10 now – feedback from many I know. MS is the ONLY entity that reaps a benefit from the data collection – and it’s huge for them.
In other words, I believe MS is talking out of the side of its corporate mouth AGAIN, to hide the real purpose of KB2952664.
And, in the process, is carrying those of us who chose not to upgrade closer and closer to the MS-controlled Win10-like systems that we don’t want.
October 6, 2016 at 10:18 am #32770
KB2952664 is for Win7 SP1 only. KB2976978 is the equivalent patch for Win8.1 only.
October 6, 2016 at 10:23 am #32771
And that’s why I’m postponing the iOS 10 upgrade on my Apple iPhone as much as possible for a few weeks.
October 6, 2016 at 10:55 am #32772
October 6, 2016 at 11:42 am #32773
For the record, I have 2 KB2976978 updates in my hidden list. They differ slightly in size, and one is “Recommended” and the other is “Optional”.
The “Optional” one is the latest one.
October 6, 2016 at 12:05 pm #32774
Bill C.AskWoody Lounger
@PKCana. MS is not talking out of the other side of their mouth. Remember, they usually stand to talk. Hmmm…
October 6, 2016 at 12:29 pm #32775
OK, will give that a try. Looks like my router can reserve local IP addresses, so it should be straight forward.
October 6, 2016 at 1:33 pm #32776
Microsoft still wants the public to install it for assessing application compatibility via telemetry. They only present it as required for certain Enterprise functionality which is on Microsoft’s wish list to be adopted.
Let’s not forget that this is not a new patch, just a revised one at version 25.
I revisited an older patch from the list of 5 and now I think its only purpose is to do telemetry. However I think it complies with the CEIP global setting. It is KB3021917.
October 6, 2016 at 1:37 pm #32777
Thanks for confirming 😀
October 6, 2016 at 1:40 pm #32778
So if I understand correctly, for Group B – the ones who only want security patches going forward, and want to get rid of as much snooping as they can, with a minimum of fuss:
Turn off Automatic Update
Turn off CEIP
Uninstall KB 2952664 (or KB 2976978), KB 3021917 and KB 3150513.
OOOPS. Forgot to mention – also uninstall KB 3021917.
None of those three KBs appeared in the “convenience rollup.”
Sounds like good advice?
October 6, 2016 at 1:53 pm #32779
The older version is Recommended and not Optional. The new one which is now Optional will probably supersede the old one and become Recommended soon.
October 6, 2016 at 1:57 pm #32780
Bottom line: I as an individual user at home probably don’t need to install this?
October 6, 2016 at 2:10 pm #32781
October 6, 2016 at 3:28 pm #32782
I think this is the right advice at the moment. It is all fluid, so next Tuesday this advice may already be obsolete 🙂
Just one note about the order of uninstalling, for those who already installed those undesired patches, due to pre-requisite conditions.
Uninstall in the following order:
KB3150513 – all existing versions, there may be more than one
KB2952664 – all existing versions, there may be more than one
October 6, 2016 at 3:31 pm #32783
In addition to my previous post, this applies to Group B AND Group A.
Needless to say, those few still interested in upgrading in place from Windows 7 to Windows 10 should install everything before upgrading. Just don’t. Do clean install if looking to move to Windows 10.
October 6, 2016 at 3:34 pm #32784
Woody, did u see my link to the article about the branch of w10 that seems to be the solution to the mess Ms has created? I am surprised given the complaints here that neither u nor anybody else has answered my question or commented.
Can u comment?
October 6, 2016 at 3:34 pm #32785
Got it. My “Patchocalypse” article is headed for publication shortly – I’ll make sure people know about the sequence here on AskWoody.
October 6, 2016 at 4:05 pm #32786
@ Commenters on this subject: The bottom line is to not install any of the KB’s with the same number as previous telemetry models no matter if they change from Optional to recommended, or back again. Just wait and see, WOODY will let us know when and what updates are safe for Win 7, 8, 8.1.
October 6, 2016 at 4:57 pm #32787
Further on the article on W10 Enterprise LTSB branch that I linked to:
Looks like the only way to get it is via some special MS OEM partners–not individuals.
I knew it was too good to be true. The article’s claim that any Windows user can download and install a 90-day eval notwithstanding, trying to burn the ISO to a DVD fails with error 0X8007048F. There seems to be no online information as to why. I don’t have a spare PC to mount the ISO and install it, so if anybody can try it, it’s worth a shot.
Per one of the commenters at the article, THAT is the W10 branch that should have been available to all PC users and would have addressed 95% of the problems. What is more, it would have validated the MS objective of reducing fragmentation–there would have been one base W10 branch with all the bug and security patches applied, the only variation being the W10 features and apps that ***MS*** would be adding that users would chose to apply or not, rather than different patch configurations. As it is, the claim is not believable.
October 7, 2016 at 2:28 am #32788
Hmm. Just went back in time and checked for KB3021917.According to “Installed Updates” it slammed in on 2/12/2015. I then went to “Uninstall Updates” and it is nowhere to be found, either on the 2/12/2015 date or any other.
There is no sign of KB 3150513 that I can tell.
The “fresh” version of 2952664 is unchecked in WU on control panel. I will make sure it doesn’t install.
But what about the mystery of the there, and not there 3021917?
October 7, 2016 at 2:38 am #32789
Ulp! Just had a new thought and checked “Hidden Updates” and there it was, not far from the old 2952664.
So, is it safe to leave them there, or should I take a strong drink of whisky and then install and try to uninstall them?
Or better, have that same drink and ignore them?
October 7, 2016 at 6:37 am #32790
October 7, 2016 at 6:59 am #32791
Woody, in regards to having to do a clean install of the W7 or W8 …
I expect Updates like KB2952664 and other telemetry based updates will be in an ISO that I download from the Microsoft website. Are the updates current to the day of the download?
I need to get an ISO from Microsoft for a system my brother uses as it is in dire need of a clean install. If I get the ISO before next Tuesday I assume I can uninstall the telemetry updates. If I get it after the October monthlies are released, I assume the ISOs will have fewer individual updates and eventually none as time passes. Is that so?
October 7, 2016 at 7:33 am #32792
Nobody knows for sure.
I’m not sure how you’re getting the ISO, or what download you’re seeing.
It’s probably the standard SP1 ISO, in which case you’re in for hundreds of patches. There are several long discussions here about how to install from SP1.
October 7, 2016 at 8:52 am #32793
Tnx Woody, I was aware that Microsoft had not released an SP2 and that the ISO available from the MS support website is only SP1, but was there not a convenience rollup (updates from 2011 to April 2016) for W7? A sort of SP2. I was told I could only get it from the Microsoft Update Catalog. I assumed that if I installed it the updates that came after April 2016 via windows update would be individual updates so I could uninstall them.
October 7, 2016 at 9:06 am #32794
The ISO Microsoft provide is from 2011, so install it before next Tuesday and just uncheck and hide all the bad updates so they never get installed. Oh and make sure you check the advice here on Woodys site on how to speed up searching for updates, because when you install that ISO and think you just search for updates, install them all and then you’ll be done just in time to go out to dinner. Wrong. Without the correct patches in place before searching for the first batch of 200+ updates, your computer will still be searching two days later.
October 7, 2016 at 9:15 am #32795
If its the M$ win7SP1 off the website it’ll be free of updates it installs one right off the hop dated 09 0r 11 you will have to use one of the speed up solutions from in here, otherwise youll age considerably while waiting for the deluge. Obviously set WUD to your preference before letting it loose. Figure on about 204-220 updates heading your way so best to pick and choose and a good 4 hours.
October 7, 2016 at 10:11 am #32796
While reviewing this article this morning, I checked my installed updates, and found a couple of anomalies. KB3150153 was installed on 9/12, and KB2952664 was installed on 10/1. Both of these were installed without my knowledge. I installed updates on 9/9 and 10/3, but none in between, since we were at DEFCON 3. I also installed and ran Spybot Anti-Beacon on 9/9, and closed everything on both the Protection and Optional tabs in that program.
This morning, I uninstalled KB2952664, but could not find KB3150153 to uninstall, even though it is reported as an installed update. I ran Anti-Beacon again, and found two CEIP Scheduled Tasks open. So my conclusion is that MS can and does install updates silently without permission, and open telemetry tasks despite my CEIP settings, which are all turned off.
October 7, 2016 at 10:14 am #32797
Before anyone asks, yes, my update setting is Check for updates but let me choose.
October 7, 2016 at 10:44 am #32798
Further update: Since I uninstalled KB2952664 an hour ago, it has installed itself yet again. I did not install any updates myself, and I have not restarted my computer. It has to be coming from somewhere.
October 7, 2016 at 12:18 pm #32799
I am working on several re-installs now and over the past few days.
Best to have a Win7 install disk that is SP1.
Best if your system is offline during the install. Once your system is installed, do not install Anything until Windows is completely up to date.
Have copies of KB3172605 and KB3020369 on a USB stick.
Load 369, then load 605, then go online. Set updates setting at Never. Start the WU process. Within about 15 minutes, you will be presented with a list of more than 200 updates.
Find the ones that are NOT labeled Security. Check each one’s issue date by clicking on the update. The date will appear on the right.
Here is the key:
If the update (remember this applies only to non-security updates) was issued before 2015, accept it. If the date of issue is 2015 or later, Hide it.
The logic is that since all development of Windows 7 ended at the end of 2014, any “update” following that is useless to you.
I have been following this procedure for more than a year and have had not a single problem.
Keep doing the updates until no more are presented. Accept no optional updates, Skype or Silverlight.
After this is done, Windows is installed and updated, install Microsoft Office, update until no more are offered
Defrag, SFC, Chkdsk
Make a system image of your disk at this point. I do it on DVD +Rs and never ever had a problem and have used them at least 50 times. Should take from 2 to 6, could be as many as 8 DVD disks. Make sure you use PLUS Rs not MINUS Rs. This pack of DVDs is the nicest piece of insurance you will ever have.
Now you can load your apps and data.
October 7, 2016 at 12:32 pm #32800
There are real and important reasons to choose to be in Group B or W, and Nd60 paints the picture succinctly. Odd that we (the people buying a service) can’t get what we want and need. I’ve learned a lot, being someone who isn’t into computers for computers sake, but for what I can do with it… I’m grateful for Woody and everyone here, because as I follow the discussions and check out my computer, I’ve learned a lot. I’m willing to experiment more. I may just take my beloved Windows 7 off-line entirely, rather than risk its functionality. I do disk image back ups in addition to regular back ups. I keep three copies of anything, computer, local, and one I move off site. I have never had to restore from them. Maybe, down the line, I will come across a “test” machine to play the Microsoft game with… I’m finding it quite interesting to learn more about computing. More likely I will go with Linux and explore that because Microsoft has shown its colors. If it was a mistake it would have been corrected during the GWX campaign. It isn’t a mistake. It is what predators do to molify their victims so that they can continue to victimize them. I’m past not volunteering to be used, and am actively supporting friends and family to move away from Microsoft in any capacity. You have no idea how much I appreciate Woody’s expertise and willingness not to herd us into choosing one thing or another, but inform us of our choices and possible consequences… you have been invaluable in my quest for an operating system that provides me access to the resources of the internet without compromising my privacy and safety.
October 7, 2016 at 1:27 pm #32801
In your opinion, are these necessary for Windows Update in general, do you believe that rumor? Some are saying 2952664 now is necessary for general Windows Update improvements even if it has nothing to do with W10 anymore.
October 7, 2016 at 4:07 pm #32802
I got this warning in my event viewer when I installed KB2952664 this morning. Got the same warning when I uninstalled it this afternoon.
Log Name: Application
Date: 10/7/2016 10:54:48 AM
Event ID: 63
Task Category: None
A provider, InvProv, has been registered in the Windows Management Instrumentation namespace Rootcimv2 to use the LocalSystem account. This account is privileged and the provider may cause a security violation if it does not correctly impersonate user requests.
I have no idea what it means. But I did find a post elsewhere that the warning is associated with KB2952664 and InvProv refers to “Improvements” to the current operating system in order to ease the upgrade experience to the latest version of Windows.
October 7, 2016 at 4:52 pm #32803
Try to burn the ISO to USB with a software named Rufus. Try to install from USB. I haven’t tested your scenario, so don’t ask for more details 🙂
But my recommendation is to avoid the LTSB Edition which does not even get enough support outside of the paid support. And this is how it is supposed to be.
Use the mainstream Windows 10 instead while delaying the major feature upgrades which would place you on CBB. Or don’t use Windows 10 at all.
October 7, 2016 at 7:24 pm #32804
I’m currently at my brother’s house. Will be back in the thick of things on Sunday
October 7, 2016 at 8:28 pm #32805
Well, that’s exactly its point, isn’t it? Only critical bug and security patches. Its the Ms “support” that needs to be avoided.
October 7, 2016 at 10:58 pm #32806
So as I understand it, your approach is to install the Recommended updates before Jan 1st 2015 and none after that date.
This is interesting, because I was under the impression that you rejected all Recommended and Optional updates, including the earlier ones.
I suppose KB3172605 is the exception because it is proved beyond any doubt that it is very useful.
October 8, 2016 at 2:40 am #32807
Arrgghh! I’ve been trying to decide if I should go ahead and buy a new Dell (choices are limited) business PC with Win 7 Pro. The only OS backup provided on new PCs is W10. I’ve read on some Dell PC forums (Philip Yip) that it is possible to create a Win7 Pro disk (or USB)as a backup.
I have a Dell from 2013 that I’ve been nursing through the last few years, but I need another PC.
I go all the way back to Win 3.0, but I’m not terribly tech savvy. I learned on Atari (aka GUI land) and while the command line isn’t a mystery, it’s also not a comfort zone.
Is it worth the trouble to buy a new Dell and try to protect it from being Borged by MS? Or should I just see if I can get a naked PC built and install Linux Mint?
All comments are welcome.
October 8, 2016 at 6:57 am #32808
It all depends on how you’ll use it, but if snooping isn’t a major concern, you should try a Chromebook, too.
A new PC with Win 7 – and a full drive backup, to keep for safety’s sake – is certainly a decent option. Microsoft won’t force you onto Windows 10. They want to sell it to you. Biggest problem is that Win7 is pretty long in the tooth now, and likely won’t get much attention after 2020.
FWIW I’m typing this while on the road with my MacBook Pro. Lovely machine.
October 8, 2016 at 10:03 am #32809
I have a technique which I have been using for years that works pretty well. I use it for every client’s computer
On a new Dell:
Clean out the stuff that came with it that you do not want.
If you can, remove the AV product
Install your MS Office
Do all the Winupdates
defrag, chkdsk, sfc
Create a system image using the built-in program (Start, Maintenance, Backup and Restore)
It takes about 6 PLUS R DVDs and about an hour.
At any time in the future, you can use that set of disks to re-create the hard drive exactly as it was at that time. No need for install disk or activation code. This works for the same corrupted drive or a new one.
October 8, 2016 at 10:09 am #32810
On a month to month basis, all updates that are NOT security are rejected because by definition, they were created after 2014.
Yes KB3172605 is an exception which has undoubtedly turned out to be invaluable. BUT, all that is about to change, I suspect.
It is just too confusing and difficult for 99% of users to try and tease out individual KBs. My definition of what to reject is simple to implement and works well. At least that is what we think we have after a year of doing it.
October 8, 2016 at 4:42 pm #32811
The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition comes with Ubuntu 14 installed. System76 also offers Ubuntu 14. ZaReason will install Linux Mint or other Linux distros, but most of their reasonably-priced models are out of stock for now. Then there is Purism, with their own secure version of Linux. There may be others.
October 8, 2016 at 4:46 pm #32812
Who designed the LTSB then if you need to “avoid” it?
October 8, 2016 at 4:51 pm #32813
KB2952664 is not necessary for most users. It has built-in functionality for collecting analytics data for enterprises which choose to use that functionality.
If you decide to install it though, it is likely not to cause any visible issues, except for possible frequent updates of the same patch when more data is available to Microsoft (we are at version 25 already) and somehow a potential for sending more data to Microsoft if this bothers you.
October 8, 2016 at 8:09 pm #32814
I installed Mint 18(Sarah)on a flash drive to see if I could get used to using instead of Win.8-it runs good on this Dell(2013)–but I would much rather stick with windows. Like you I go back to Win.3.1 –I used to look forward to a new version of windows..oh well..
October 8, 2016 at 8:17 pm #32815
I forgot one: the MintBox Mini Pro. $395US. It’s a desktop and I don’t know how available it is at the moment. There is also the MintBox Mini, but it seems under-powered. Both, of course, run Linux Mint. The peripherals are the buyer’s responsibility.
October 8, 2016 at 9:55 pm #32816
Thank you for replying. As you already know, I am not in favour of this approach, but I think your approach is interesting and has a lot of value which can be useful for a number of users, who don’t need the tiniest tweaks that may be released after that date.
For those not really understanding why you mention a specific date, it should be mentioned that according to Microsoft https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet
the end date for mainstream support for Windows 7 with Service Pack 1 is January 13, 2015. This means, at least in theory, that Microsoft will not release product enhancements beyond that date and only “maintain” the existing operating system with Security Updates and with strictly required fixes, named Critical Updates (Important non-security). This is how KB3138612 was released and I am expecting KB3172605 to move into that category at some stage. Strictly speaking, the cut-off date should be considered January 2015 and not December 2014, but as nothing significant was released in January 2015, for simplicity, considering the cut-off date as the end of 2014 is OK.
October 9, 2016 at 1:18 am #32817
Laptops are not the preferred option (long story, wife is MS/PC dependent, etc). Also Allan, DELL says they are not selling that model anymore. Their helpful website does not indicate a current replacement for it either.
Sounds like a Business PC with W7 Pro and a bit of work (thank you Canadian Tech) is the best option. And yes, I do know that the “bit of work” is a lot more than that.
I use Avira Free and Malwarebytes Pro on the current PC, and run occasional Sophos and TrendMicro remote scans. Also, Revo Uninstaller and Decrapifier were used to free the current unit from it’s original dreckload.
Any other thoughts and ideas are welcome.
And Woody, if I could learn Appelspeak better, I’d use my 2011 MB Pro more often. Of course, I’d have to update it first.
October 9, 2016 at 3:50 am #32818
Dell has a newer version of the Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition with Ubuntu Linux 16.04 LTS installed:
October 9, 2016 at 12:17 pm #32819
If a person buys a new Win 7 PC from Tuesday onwards,
when she/he is first setting up the computer and getting it updated on patches (since it will have been sitting in the warehouse/in the store for a number of months after it left the factory),
will she/he necessarily have to go directly into Group A for patching?
Will picking and choosing individual past patches no longer be possible?
If having the former level of control over individual patches is not going to be possible, if the computer isn’t fully patched up through September 2016 already, putting a brand new computer directly into Group B where one downloads from the Update Catalog only each new month’s security patches is not going to fill in the gaps that the computer is missing from sitting on the shelf for a few months — is that right?
(This might be something that your imminent InfoWorld article will cover.)
October 9, 2016 at 12:58 pm #32820
if you REALLY REALLY REALLY highly-priotize privacy and security…
notice Qubes R4.x is coming out soon???
personally …. perhaps you want to wait until next year (if not a urgent item)….
there could be some serious economy-world event in next 6 mths that could overnight force a country/countries into deflation or hyperinflation… or something…
the price of all electronics will be vastly different from “peace” time
all else aside…
peace of mind is priceless
and IF that be an important value
then non-snooping software/mechine would be the natural choice for “future&hidden-disaster proof”
from the east
the heart of man is the unknown wildcard
(not your mechine or software)
good luck w your new toy 🙂
October 9, 2016 at 3:47 pm #32821
THANK YOU, Canadian Tech. After more than a week spent trying different approaches without success, I came across your post yesterday evening and I now have a set of DVDs with re-installation image.
October 9, 2016 at 5:50 pm #32822
Short answer – we don’t know yet. Long answer – working on it.
October 9, 2016 at 5:53 pm #32823
Put Win10 on it with Bootcamp. I do. Like falling off a log.
October 10, 2016 at 1:35 am #32824
Thanks Woody, for the advice. I found the transition from winspeak to appel-ation quite difficult; not impossible, but annoying. I used the Macbook at work for a few years, but never truly got comfortable with it. As a back-up, it was useful when the Lords of MS chose to bone us (accidentally, and for our own good) from time to time.
I’ve never tried to use a win surrogate on the Mac; and I’m not sure I want to spend the time to make those things work. Much more important, I know a half-dozen equally ancient friends who are not at all happy with Win10. They suffer, and deal with it for business purposes. Two of them are still trying to undo the Anniversary bomb.
They don’t have a choice – its their business software and that means corporate taxes, business software, investments, customer relations, sales, accounting and payroll etc.
Toss in the Verizon/Frontier grenade and they are not happy campers.
It’s hard to ignore that.
NOTE – I know that VZN is just GTE gone wild, and all the fine and useless services that GTE provided has carried forward over all these years. It seems that since they’ve sold the low quality (aka not-so-profitable) parts of their business to Frontierland things have gone back to the dark ages.
But I digress.
Thanks, and may the Gods of the Internet continue to give you (payable) gist for your mill.
October 10, 2016 at 3:11 am #32825
PCLinuxOS 64 bit KDE4 Desktop
The ChimpBox Intel – OR – The ChimpBox AMD
October 10, 2016 at 12:17 pm #32826
In your case, Jim, I wouldn’t buy a PC with Windows 7, as support will end in the not so distant future and you very likely will get snooping updates anyway. Microsoft don’t want you to stay on 7. I think you need to either jump ship or stay with MS.
If you stay with MS and tolerate the privacy issues, you could just buy a PC with Windows 10 Pro and click the option to delay feature upgrades, so in theory you won’t get anniversary update until most of the bugs get ironed out. This might be one way to reduce a bit of the annoyances.
If privacy is too important, you might want to try running something else with maybe Windows in a VM with Office and no Internet access. Not an ideal scenario for work, maybe acceptable for home, depending on how often you use Office ?
Anyway, I am not sure what the PC of the future will be like. If MS plan goes on, they might want you to buy everything from their store, so maybe that is not something you are looking for anyway. I don’t see them succeeding very quickly at that and the more they will shovel it down the user’s throat, the more resistance they will find.
I can’t afford to not run Windows right now, so I am quite mad, but I will definitely start experimenting other OSes.
Office is the biggest hurdle as nothing is close enough to it for me. I don’t game on PCs right now, but I think it is not unreasonable to think that there is more incentive than ever to port gaming to Linux (Steam vs the MS Store doesn’t seem compatible) and I think there is some new open DirectX equivalent (Vulkan) coming in so maybe, Linux will become more important if gamers start to transition there.
I still hope that things will go so bad for Microsoft in the following years that they will completely reverse course after firing Nadella. For that to happen, people shouldn’t buy anything they offer in their app store, and not use any of their software like Edge or Cortana for web search so they have less data to monetize. For them to care about privacy, we, the users, must send a clear signal that is not optional.
October 11, 2016 at 11:52 am #32827
Hi all . I found your posts and this website. I to am having trouble with KB2952664.
Noticed A LOT of cpu usage coming from telemtry mess and got to reading about it.
I think there are way to many people that want to get rid of this and just cannot jump through so many hoops since they arent as computer savy as they might want or need to be.
I havent been able to get rid of this KB2952664 , and it just has an error when trying to uninstall it.
Also tried many different ways that i found on the net , including Dism but it didnt work.
I was hoping that someone could post a couple Good things to try and maybe we could start a comprehensive List of KB updates to NOT allow to download , if we choose or see them as bad. A sort of BLACKLIST.
I’m sure most users would appreciate a list like that and i think its something that almost everyone could be savy enough to watch for and keep from downloading.
Any help for getting rid of this KB2952664 , would be appreciated by me as well. Thanks
October 11, 2016 at 1:08 pm #32828
You asked for
“a comprehensive List of KB updates to NOT allow to download , if we choose or see them as bad. A sort of BLACKLIST.”
Just check around in the archive of AskWoody.com — there have been many such lists posted here, including several entire articles/blogposts by Woody about that subject, including one that was published within the last 2 weeks.
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