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  • Win 7 replacement with original Win 8.1 – issues

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 8.1 Win 7 replacement with original Win 8.1 – issues

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    This topic contains 27 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  Razz 5 days, 22 hours ago.

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    • #2009697 Reply

      Razz
      AskWoody Plus

      Hey Guys,

      Back on this topic again. Finally getting around to reinstall Win 8.1 which was originally pre-installed on this Acer E1 -572 64 bit laptop.

      I downloaded Win 8.1 to DVD from Microsoft and having found the product key, from back in the day, installed it this morning. It has been eventful and I won’t bore you with the details. Watching paint dry would be an appropriate analogy.

      The Windows Update history shows only updates from 2014 and Check Updates does not produce anything. Clearly there have been many updates since, so I was looking for advice on which more recent defcon 3/4 updates can bridge the gap to 2014 and from which website.

      Should I, for instance, start with the 2017 servicing stack update 3173424 (or have to go back further?) and then the four 10/8/2019 updates highlighted in Susan’s patch list, or what?

      Thanks again,

      Razz

      ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
      ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
      LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

    • #2009714 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      Download KB3172614  (2016 Rollup) and the Oct 2019 Servicing Stack KB4521864 from the Catalog. Set Windows Update to “Never check for updates.” Stop (not disable) the Windows Update Service.
      Install the Servicing Stack first, wait 10 minutes, reboot. If that SSU won’t install, you may have to use the earlier (2017) one mentioned in the anon’s link below.
      Then install the Rollup, reboot. Those two patches hopefully will allow you to use Windows Update.

      After that, the updating can/should be done in steps through Windows Update.
      First step, update through Dec. 2017. Jan 2018 is when MS started the Meltdown/Spectre mitigation which caused problems particularly for AMD processors, but for Intel as well. So you can update up to the time before they started.
      Second step is to choose updates from Jan through Dec 2018 at points where MS resolved problems.
      Last step is to bring the updates up to the present in 2019.

      I have done this type of thing twice for Win7, here and here, if you want to look through the type of procedure I’m talking about.

      3 users thanked author for this post.
      • #2010006 Reply

        Razz
        AskWoody Plus

        Hi PK,

        Thanks for your latest. As you will see in the attached I successfully installed what you recommended first, which brings it to 34 installed updates primarily from 2014.

        FirstInstallSet

        This then opened up the updater and presented 143 important updates. 122 of them are pre-2019 Security and Win 8.1 updates,  the rest are .Net, drivers, adobe etc.

        Of the highlighted 122, One Win 8.1 update is KB 2976978 7/10/2018 and seems to be regarding CEIP diagnostics, all others are no later than 10/2016.

        If and when I install these would you expect the Windows Update to present those after 2016?

        I have looked through some of your two Win 7 assists. Two questions arise from that:

        McAfee Web Advisor highlighted for me that there were CEIP apps connecting with Microsoft even though I thought I had deactivated them. Telemetry wasn’t a first priority for me  – I could address it later, but are you suggesting that I “Get your settings right” before I go any further?McAfeeSQM-block

        Do you have any suggestions on installing the 122 to start with, other than systematically checking the additional information on the release and seeing if it is applicable or not? Some seem relevant to Server only but I would not be certain.

        Thanks again, Razz

        ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
        ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
        LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

        Attachments:
        • #2010030 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          I just looked through your installed updates list. KB2976978 carries telemetry, but if you used the latest ISO I think it was baked in. You can try to uninstall it, but I don’t think it will work. There are other updates associated with telemetry, but I did not see them included (3044374, 3068708, 3080149, and 3150513). You can neutralize the telemetry using @abbodi86 ‘s method in AKB2000012 in the end.

          If you want me to step you through this, I will need a day or so to put things together. It will start with the same things the Win7 did – getting settings right to start with.
          Let me know if you want me to proceed with it.

          • #2010044 Reply

            Razz
            AskWoody Plus

            Only 3044374 is on my waiting list of those you mentioned. It looks more related to Win 10 – FAQ so if I did not install – no big deal, right? (I won’t be putting Win 10 on this laptop)

            I was wondering if there was  a way of sorting the updates chronologically as they are not presented like that.

            Can I install several and reboot together, or install individually and reboot each time?

            Thanks

            ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
            ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
            LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

            • #2010062 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              You can hide 3044374 by highlighting it, right click, and choose hide. You will have to keep watching for those updates each time you do an install b/c there are several versions and they keep showing back up.

              As far as installing goes, it is better NOT to install the drivers from MS. It is better to get them from the computer mfg. Also, I would not recommend installing .NET4.8 – you most likely do not need it.

              You can uncheck all updates by clicking on the box at the top on the left above the other check boxes. Then check only the boxes you want to install. When you highlight the update, the release date shows in the column on the right. Only the checked updates get installed.

              Because of the problems that MS encountered with the Meltdown/Spectre mitigation from Jan 2018 on, my recommendation is to update through Dec 2017, then take the 2018 updates in steps according to when MS fixed problems. The Rollups are cumulative, so you don’t have to install all of them one by one, but the ones chosen to install should work around the problems with 2018 updates.
              The SHA-2 code signing support is built into Win8.1, but I do not know the timeframe when that happened.

              I will be glad to help you with it like I did for the Win7.
              Or, if you don’t want to fool with it, you can hide drivers, telemetry patches, and .NET4.8 and let Windows Update roll. If you do that, let us know how it works.

        • #2010031 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          BTW the Windows SQM Consolidator is part of CEIP. One of the things you need ot do first is turn off CEIP. The settings for Win8.1 are pretty much the same as Win7, if you wnat to look through those topics again.
          Here’s a copy:

          Step 1: Get your settings right.
          Settings external to Windows Update (to reduce telemetry):
          1. In Action Center\Maintenance\Settings – Windows Error Reporting is set to “Never check for solutions.”
          2. In Action Center\Change Action Center settings\Related settings: CEIP is set to “No” and Problem reporting is set to “No.”
          3. In Administrative Tools\Services – Diagnostics Tracking Service is Disabled. (If is’t not there, it WILL be installed once you start using the Monthly Rollups.)
          4. In Administrative Tools\Task Scheduler\Library\Microsoft\Windows – all tasks under Application Experience, Autochk, and CEIP are Disabled.
          5. Smart Screen Filter is turned OFF in IE11 in Win7/8.1 and on the desktop in Win8.1
          6. Bing is not the default search engine in IE11 and IE11 is not my default browser.

          Windows Update Settings:
          1. CHECKED “Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates”
          2. CHECKED “Give me updates for other MS products”
          3. Windows Updates set to “Never check for updates (Not recommended)”

          1 user thanked author for this post.
          • #2010399 Reply

            Razz
            AskWoody Plus

            Hi PK

            I am having trouble with point 4 Admin tools here. I cannot find the root you mention.

            And the only place I saw Smart Screen is in Action Center settings.

            IE 11 is not my default browser.

            Other than that I have gone through and selected the relevant important updates and am ready to let Windows Updater run after I have done another backup first. It is 108 updates of the original list.

            Let me know your thoughts.

            Thanks – RazzGetYourSettingsRight

            ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
            ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
            LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

            Attachments:
            • #2010414 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              Be sure you have a full disk image AND an separate file backup of your User data.
              Location for #4 (These are the tasks related with telemetry)

              ControlPanel

              TaskScheduler

              Attachments:
            • #2010446 Reply

              Razz
              AskWoody Plus

              That should have taken care of it. Thanks

              Step1done

              ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
              ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
              LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

              Attachments:
            • #2010429 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              I see the “Consolidator” listed in the Task Scheduler on the top tier. That is part of CEIP.
              You haven’t turned off CEIP unitl you click on the link at the bottom of the “Change Action Center settings” and turn it off (see the 4th slide)

            • #2010468 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              Do you want me to put together the steps for the rest of the update, or do you want to take it on your own?

              If you want my help, please put together the screenshots of the list of currently pending Important updates. The procedure will be quite similar to what was done for Win7.

            • #2011085 Reply

              Razz
              AskWoody Plus

              Hi PK,

              Updates to Dec 2017 completed without errors.

              EP’s referenced KB3173424 seems to have been silently installed as it was not on my original  list.

              Should I motor through patch lady’s list next?

              ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
              ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
              LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

              Attachments:
            • #2011093 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              If I am not mistaken, the Patch Lady’s list would have you install all the updates in sequence.. I don’t think that’s necessary. Since the Rollups are cumulative, I think the best way is to install several specifically choosing points where things were fixed (like in the Win7 assist). Avoiding the Jan-March 2018 chaos, for example.

              I need to know tonight if you have an AMD or Intel processor.

              Give me till tomorrow to look through your list and then come up with the specific updates to get you up to date. I’m here from 4:00am to 8:00pm server time (CST US). So it won’t tonight. Hope one more day won’t cause a problem.

            • #2011112 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              Start by doing this:
              + Hide the latest Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Windows 8.1 (2019-10 or 2019-09). Only the Rollup for Windows.
              + Check for updates.
              + Hide the Security Monthly Quality Rollup that shows up.
              Repeat those steps until you have hidden all the Rollups back to and including the 2018-01 Security Monthly Quality Rollup.

              You can unhide the Adobe Flash and MSRT if you hide those. The ones that matter are the Rollups.
              I will get back with you tomorrow.

            • #2011227 Reply

              Razz
              AskWoody Plus

              Hi PK – Thanks for that. I am 6hr. ahead of you.

              This Acer has an Intel core i7.

              Meanwhile, I will proceed as you suggest back to Jan 2018 .

              All the best

               

              ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
              ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
              LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

            • #2011236 Reply

              Razz
              AskWoody Plus

              OK. So where we are now is the updates back to Jan 2018 were hidden, at which point WU presented a few updates from 2017 I had not seen before.

              I then installed all of them and the Check for updates presents only optional ones (attached).

              Also it looks like I inadvertently installed KB4524445 too! Cannot see straight anymore – MS eyes.

              No installation /reboot errors.

              ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
              ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
              LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

              • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 5 days ago by  Razz.
              Attachments:
            • #2011288 Reply

              PKCano
              Da Boss

              See instructions below.

              Let me know how it turns out,

    • #2009713 Reply

      anonymous
    • #2010883 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      note – the KB3172729 (MS16-100) security update requires the older KB3173424 servicing stack update and is NOT included in any recent Win8.1 security-only nor recent Win8.1 monthly rollup updates.
      KB3173424 gets silently installed along with KB3172729 when installing KB3172729 from windows update as I have witnessed this myself on a Win8.1 computer and KB3173424 is NOT fully superseded by the newer KB4504418, KB4521864 and KB4524445 servicing stack updates.

      note that KB4524445 DOES supersede the KB4521864 update, so KB4521864 is not needed anymore.

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  EP.
      • This reply was modified 2 weeks, 6 days ago by  EP.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2011287 Reply

      PKCano
      Da Boss

      Check that none of the telemetry updates are in the installed updates.(3044374, 3068708, 3080149, and 3150513) If they are there, uninstall them and rehide.

      We will not be dealing with any of the unchecked optionals. So you can disregard them from now on.

      It is OK that you installed the Nov SSU KB4524445.

      It would be a good idea to make a full disk image at this point. Label it with info updated to Dec 2017

      ***************
      If you have any questions, let me know.
      During the installs, hide any telemetry updates or drivers that show up. Hide the installer for .NET 4.8 (or later) KB4486105 if it shows up. Also, do not check any updates that are unchecked by default.

      Your hidden updates should consist of the telemetry updates and the Rollups for Win8.1 from Jan 2018 onward.
      It is not necessary to check back between steps below unless there is an inconsistency with the instructions.

      1. Unhide by checking only these updates:
      + Any IE Flash Player updates you have hidden
      + Any MSRT updates you have hidden
      + The Rollups dated 2018-01 through (including) 2018-05 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4103725. ( Jan 2018 – May 2018)
      + The list in Important Updates should consist of any IE Flash updates, MSRT, and only 2018-05 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4103725. If that is the case, install the updates.
      * Reboot, wait 15 minutes after login. Verify the installation was successful.

      2. Unhide by checking only these updates:
      + The Rollups dated 2018-06 through (including) 2018-12 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4471320. (June 2018 – Dec 2018)
      + The list in Important Updates should consist of only 2018-12 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4471320. If that is the case, install the update.
      * Reboot, wait 15 minutes after login. Verify the installation was successful.

      It would be a good idea to make a full disk image at this point. Label it with info updated to Dec 2018.

      *****************

      3. Unhide by checking only these updates:
      + The Rollups dated 2019-01 through (including) 2019-07 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4507448. (Jan 2019 – July 2019)
      + The list in Important Updates should consist of only 2019-07 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4507448.If that is the case, install the update.
      * Reboot, wait 15 minutes after login. Verify the installation was successful.

      4. Unhide by checking only these updates:
      + The Rollups dated 2019-08 through (including) 2019-10 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4520005. (Aug 2019 – Oct 2019)
      + The list in Important Updates should consist of only 2019-10 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4520005. If that is the case, install the update.
      * Reboot, wait 15 minutes after login. Verify the installation was successful.

      5. Unhide 2019-11 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Win8.1 KB4525243 but wait to install for the DEFCON-3 or above.

      NOTES:
      + I stopped at Oct 2019 updates because Woody has not “blessed” the Nov. updates with DEFCON-3 or greater yet. I have installed the Nov updates on my test VMs with no problems. Use your own judgement.
      + It is OK to install .NET up through .NET 4.7.x and any Rollups associated. You do not need to install all versions, only the ones you need for the applications you run. The apps should tell you if they need it. Perhaps the latest version of .NET 4.7.x.
      + You can deal with the telemetry by reading through @abbodi86 ‘s “Neutralize Telemetry & Sustain Win 7, 8.1 Monthly Rollup Model” AKB2000012 and taking the appropriate action. I have set mine to run as a Scheduled Task at startup. If you need help with this, just ask.
      + Please excuse any typos. Typing is not my Forte.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2011633 Reply

        Razz
        AskWoody Plus

        Hi PK –

        Please comment on the need for KB4524156 before I complete the 2019-10 update.

        I have had an issue with reinstalling Adobe Acrobat DC at the through-to- Dec- 2017- install- stage this morning, and I will try it again when I have finished through to 2019-10.

        Otherwise no errors.

        Thanks again for all your input.

        ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
        ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
        LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

        • #2011658 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          KB4524156 was an interum Out-of-Band fix for a vulnerability that MS said was “an emergency” at the time (it wasn’t). It was released as a checked Important update. It was actually part of the Sept patches that were released in early Oct.

          Since the Rollups are cumulative, the fix was included in the actual Oct Patch Tuesday Rollup KB4520005 released a few days later on the second Tues. So KB4524156 became unnecessary.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #2012376 Reply

        Razz
        AskWoody Plus

        Thanks again PK for your invaluable assistance. It is much appreciated.

        Now up to date pending Nov patch clearance.

        A few issues that I have now resolved so this laptop is back in business, and should in theory last until 2023 when I understand Win 8.1 expires.

        A few observations that will go on separate topic posts later.

        Now I must assess what to do with Win 10 systems…. but I need a week to catch up first.

        Ciao for now.

        ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
        ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
        LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

        • #2012380 Reply

          PKCano
          Da Boss

          Good job!
          Don’t forget to take care of the telemetry. 🙂

          • #2012388 Reply

            Razz
            AskWoody Plus

            I have to say I am impressed with ACER

            They make fairly reliable machines.

            ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
            ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
            LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

        • #2012440 Reply

          Microfix
          Da Boss

          Have a look through the AKB section for telemetry/tips for Win8.1 they are still relevant to this day.

          ********** Win7 Pro x64 | Win8.1 Pro x64 | Linux Hybrids x64 **********

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #2016960 Reply

      Razz
      AskWoody Plus

      This thread is about what to do with a six year old laptop in light of the Win 7 EOL Jan 2020, while having other equipment on Win 10 Home.

      As somebody who does a lot of planning and

      I go all the way back to C/PM computers and have seen it all

      , and

      Having built or upgraded around 70 computers, I’ve got a moderately faint idea of what I’m writing about.

      I am sure you will appreciate that

      • Win 8.1 affords better telemetry neutralisation to the Home user.
      • Win 8.1 is reasonably stable, arguably less buggy and offers users some control over monthly updates.
      • Given the rate of hardware development and the speed of this laptop it makes more sense not to burden it with Win 10 and just keep it ticking over, at least until it expires or EOL of Win 8.1, whichever is sooner. So it is likely to be the best part of ten years old by then – not bad considering I have been burning through laptops every 5-6 years; the last one a Toshiba had repeated screen failures and was dog slow to power up.
      • Even a content developer rather than a content consumer will not be offered much more by Win 10 versus Win 8.1 , that I just cannot wait to have it on that laptop.
      • The vast majority of users have no interest in building computers unless they do it for a living and don’t want to have their days messed up by having to attend to Microsoft’s latest snafu.

      I already have two other laptops on Win 10, and am fully aware that if I plan on sticking with Microsoft Win 10 is its proclaimed future.

      I am appreciative of the positive safeguarding advice and insight provided by @woody, @pkcano, @susan Bradley, @microfix, @b, @abbodi86, @mrjimphelps, @ascaris, @joep517, @oscarcp and the contributors to the AKB and several anonymous posters, which facilitate good outcomes.

      The rest of what I have to say belongs in the rant section about the IT industry, and that is coming from someone who had exposure to graduate computer science back in the day when the last of the card readers was being retired.

      Stay well.

       

      ACER E1-572 8GB RAM Intel Core i7 64-bit Win 8.1 Home Premium Office 2013.
      ASUS GL702VS 24GB RAM Intel Core i7 64 bit Win 10 Home 1903 Office 2016.
      LENOVO Yoga 310 4GB RAM Intel Celeron 64-bit Win 10 Home 1903.

      1 user thanked author for this post.

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