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  • Win 7 SP1 x 64 and Windows update

    Home Forums AskWoody support Windows Windows 7 Questions: Windows 7 Win 7 SP1 x 64 and Windows update

    This topic contains 13 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  BrianL 17 hours, 31 minutes ago.

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    • #129044 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      I am using the Win minitool to locate updates, install etc.  I just ran it and it came up with updates with an issue dates from 9/2013 to 1/2016.  Three are “critical” the just marked as “updates”.  These arte old and would I be prudent to install and see what happens? As of now I will put them in holding for an answer.

    • #129227 Reply

      Bob99
      AskWoody Lounger

      Just curious why you’re using a freeware tool available on Majorgeeks instead of the built-in Windows Update tool? The freeware tool uses, by its own description on Majorgeeks, the same systems/files that the built-in windows Update uses.

      Aside from that, I’d be very careful about trying to install the older updates you’ve encountered, since MS has been editing the updates for which one succeeded which other older one, and you might wind up messing that up by trying to install an older patch. I’m sure that @pkcano can shed some light on the succession issue, as well as provide a great answer to your original question!

    • #129230 Reply

      PKCano
      AskWoody MVP

      Brian,
      You don’t say if your dealing with a clean install of Win7 SP1 or an established PC. The approach could be different.

      Windows Update is based on a complex and subtle system of supercedence and replacement. On top of that, Microsoft has been “messing” with system lately in an effort to “retire” some of the older patches and clean up the supercedence chain. They have not been completely successful with the cleanup as has been demonstrated by the appearance of older patches (like from 2014) appearing in the current Windows Update list.

      With the older patches that show up in Windows Update, if they are not needed (have been superceded or replaced), Windows Update Agent will “know” and they simply won’t get installed. Or if they are needed, they will be installed in the proper order.

      With Win minitool, you can download all the old patches that are available, even include superseded ones. And I’d be willing to bet you don’t know the difference. I stumble with it, especially now that MS has made so many changes.

      My recommendation to you would be to use Windows Update.

      If you are starting with a clean install from an ISO/installation DVD, first be sure you have Service Pack 1.

      If you want to be in Group A, read AKB2000004.
      In Windows Update I would suggest you check the boxes “give me recommended updates the way I get important updates” and “give me updates for other MS products.” DO NOT check anything that is UNCHECKED by default. Install everything offered that is CHECKED except drivers.

      If you want to be in Group B read AKB2000003
      To get up to date to Oct. 2016 when MS started security-only patches:
      1. UNCHECK drivers
      2. UNCHECK telemetry patches (if you do not want them)
      3. UNCHECK anything labeled “Security Monthly Quality ROLLUP for WINDOWS
      4. Install everything CHECKED and dated up through October 2016.
      5. Reboot, wait 10 minutes after login without doing anything.
      6. Repeat steps 1-5 until nothing is left but patches in steps 1-3.
      Then follow the instructions in AKB2000003 to install security-only updates until up to date.

      If you are looking at an established PC, I’d definitely recommend Windows Update, with AKB2000004 as a guide for Group A and  AKB2000003  as a guide for Group B

      Once you understand Windows Update and supercedence, that is the time for Win minitool.

      2 users thanked author for this post.
    • #129233 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      @ PKCano – I have the original install of Windows 7 sp1 x64 home premium on a HP pavilion p6520y desktop, 6GB Ram/1 TB HHD. The only modification was to the HHD. Now there are no partitions. It came with HHD divided into drive C and Drive to L. I backup to a 1TB Seagate. All is original. I am now using the mini tool, only. I went ahead and installed the old updates and computer took all but the oldest. I restarted and so far everything is working as it should. I really need to get you a list of programs that I have on this computer, and let you see what I have.

    • #129234 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      Add to preceding post : I have the superceded updates checked on the minitool. I am definitely in Group B and have been for 1 year 2 months.

      • This reply was modified 3 days, 17 hours ago by  BrianL.
      • This reply was modified 3 days, 17 hours ago by  BrianL.
    • #129241 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      @ Bob99 & PKCano – I have had a pecular thing happening :I try to install an update that is obsolete or modified, the windows 7 will not except it and gives references to find the exact update no explanation why.

      • #129321 Reply

        Bob99
        AskWoody Lounger

        @ Bob99 & PKCano – I have had a pecular thing happening :I try to install an update that is obsolete or modified, the windows 7 will not except it and gives references to find the exact update no explanation why.

        That’s probably because of the supersedence issue that @pkcano has mentioned in his first reply to you. You’re probably trying to install a superseded update, which is also why he strongly suggested using the built-in Windows Update tool instead of the mini tool you’ve been using.

        To quote @pkcano‘s earlier post, “With the older patches that show up in Windows Update, if they are not needed (have been superceded or replaced), Windows Update Agent will “know” and they simply won’t get installed. Or if they are needed, they will be installed in the proper order.”

        • This reply was modified 2 days, 21 hours ago by  Bob99.
    • #129303 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      I guess that I will settle on the minitool. It seems to work. I am being as careful as I can with my limited experience.

      • #129325 Reply

        Bob99
        AskWoody Lounger

        I guess that I will settle on the minitool. It seems to work. I am being as careful as I can with my limited experience.

        @brianl, please read the last sentence from @pkcano‘s first reply to you quoted below:

          Once you understand Windows Update and supercedence, that is the time for Win minitool.

        In other words, you may be doing yourself a disservice by using the minitool. Even @pkcano has admitted to stumbling (mis-stepping) by using the minitool instead of the built-in Windows Update.

        To quote him in his first reply to you, ” I stumble with it, especially now that MS has made so many changes.”

    • #129433 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      OK, I will go back to the “Windows Update”,  even though it is slow and does not put the updates in order as does the mintool.  I will have to start looking up every update with the installed windows update program. We’ll see what happens. I turn on the diagnostic services and windows update,    in the morning and and disable them at night.

      • #129436 Reply

        Noel Carboni
        AskWoody MVP

        For what it’s worth as a data point I’ve only this week just decided to bring my Win 7 hardware system up to Group A “fully updated” level with Windows Update.

        It’s working fine so far.

        However, I only briefly start the Windows Update service when I’m ready to deal with checking for and installing updates. I don’t understand your “start in the morning and disable at night” comment. The update process can be started by pressing a button.

        -Noel

    • #129440 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      @ Noel C –  I click Service then I enable the three diagnostic services and windows update when I turn the desktop on in the morning and then at night I do same except I disable all four.  Been doing this for at least 6 or 7 months.  So far no problems have jumped up at me.

    • #129509 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      Guys & Gals: I guess I will never understand Windows 7 SP1 x64 or Windows Update. They keep changing. The one thing I don’t want to do is let Microsoft into my home!!

    • #129676 Reply

      BrianL
      AskWoody Lounger

      In talking with a friend gv, via email, I have decided to put the desktop under the desk but operational. I am going to try my luck with Chrome Book(the latest and best) also the largest I can find. I will attempt to convert my working files and later my personal files and a Seagate 1TB backup.

    Please follow the -Lounge Rules- no personal attacks, no swearing, and politics/religion are relegated to the Rants forum.

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