Somebody strap me down. I’m about to have a foaming-at-the-mouth episode. The kind only Windows can provide. First, an apology. I’ve been very busy sw
[See the full post at: Win10 1903 Pro Windows Update advanced options — WUH?]
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There are isolated problems with current patches, but they are well-known and documented on this site. |
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Win10 1903 Pro Windows Update advanced options — WUH?
- This topic has 81 replies, 27 voices, and was last updated 4 years, 4 months ago.
AuthorViewing 26 reply threadsAuthor-
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I’m on Insider Preview v1903 Build 18343.1 (because 46 and 48 crashed – trying 51 this morning). This is my advanced Options screen:
5 users thanked author for this post.
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So, it looks at first glance everyone (Home or Pro) will be updated to the new Build within 7 days of release. More Beta Testers for Microsoft early on.
Even not all of the consumers with the Pro version dig in Group Policy or the Registry.
Seems MS is moving the mindset to having no control in preparation for Microsoft 365, where the rented OS is online and there IS NO control over what changes are made and when they are applied.
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Does he say what version and what Build?
His screenshot says 18343.19h1_release.190219-1422 (Evaluation Copy).
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More fuel for the fire…… here’s what I have on my work-managed Windows 10 Enterprise 1809 system, which doesn’t have the February 2019 updates installed.
No sign of the old GUI with the big drop-downs anywhere.
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I would assume that’s because of a Group Policy setting…
1 user thanked author for this post.
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This is what I have on my Windows 10 Pro 1803 17134.590
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Understood.
That’s likely the reason for warrenrumak’s problems with 1809.
But it doesn’t explain my 1903. I don’t have WSUS on any of my machines, and this machine isn’t under AD or AAD (per @getwired’s tweet).
I’m tempted to blast it away and install the new ISO – but I’m also concerned that this may be a for-real bug. Or feature. So I’ll hold off on installing the ISO for now.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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This is just crazy. It’s my understanding that even Apple doesn’t do this with new IOS builds. I have photographer friends who delay these updates for some time because of Apple plays fast and loose with color management issues. It will be a shame if MSFT goes down the road of taking user control away from us. We already pay a premium for the PRO version so that this stuff can be carefully controlled. I’ve already been forced to update to Win10 because Adobe won’t support it’s photo editing programs on Win 8.1 any longer. I can see some disasters looming ahead when a new system update is installed and my software doesn’t work for a period of time until patched.
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I would assume that’s because of a Group Policy setting…
That’s not it. The only GP setting applied to my desktop system is that Dual Scan is disabled. (i.e. the internal WSUS system is the sole provider of updates). I have full control over Windows Update otherwise.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I would assume that’s because of a Group Policy setting…
That’s not it. The only GP setting applied to my desktop system is that Dual Scan is disabled. (i.e. the internal WSUS system is the sole provider of updates). I have full control over Windows Update otherwise.
If it’s not GP-related, it’s something related to the Enterprise licensing. My fully-patched (1809 17763.348) copy of Pro at home doesn’t look the same:
1 user thanked author for this post.
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This is about v1903, not v1809.
Understood. warrenrumak made the point that his 1809 had the same lack of options as what’s being seen in 1903.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Again, EXACTLY why I’m not moving to 10. They just keep getting worse and worse.
I’m not “renting” a terminal inside MS Shop (despite how they see people as “licensing their OS”), this PC is sat in my home, it is bought and used for what ‘I’ need it to do, it should work and be updated when ‘I’ wish. What’s next, Microsoft telling me what software I can install or uninstall, and when I can use it?
It’s absolutely ridiculous people are accepting this at all. I’d have imagined only grandmas and businesses would put up with such treatment.
4 users thanked author for this post.
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I went to update Handbrake yesterday. It requires .Net 4.7.1. I’m still on WinX 1511. Yup, 1511. Read my older posts and you’ll get the story. In any case, I could not install the latest version of .Net, thus no Handbrake either, because MS decided that I can’t install 4.7.1 on this version of windows. So, your prophecy is already reality – MS will control which software you can install by controlling the sub-components 3rd party software requires.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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It is not that surprising to me that you can’t install a newer .NET version on an unsupported version Windows 10. It is likely that changes in Windows after 1511 the .NET 4.7.1 depends on or changes in .NET that depend on changes in Windows after 1511 preclude installing it on 1511.
--Joe
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You chose to remain on a version of Windows 10 which has been unsupported for 17 months as an experiment to discover the consequences. Well, you just discovered one. You are controlling what software you can or cannot install, not Microsoft. The latest Handbrake has OS version requirements for Mac and Linux too.
Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I went to update Handbrake yesterday. It requires .Net 4.7.1. I’m still on WinX 1511. Yup, 1511. Read my older posts and you’ll get the story. In any case, I could not install the latest version of .Net, thus no Handbrake either, because MS decided that I can’t install 4.7.1 on this version of windows. So, your prophecy is already reality – MS will control which software you can install by controlling the sub-components 3rd party software requires.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/dotnet/framework/get-started/system-requirements
So yeah, .NET 4.7.x cannot be installed on Windows 10 1511. I just tried to do so on a VMware virtual machine running Windows 10 1511 Enterprise, and the .NET 4.7.2 installation program told me it “is not supported on this operating system”.
Note that Windows 10 1607 or above can run .NET 4.7.2, even though many of the compatible Windows 10 builds are already out of support (at least the Home/Pro version).
So it seems that you will have to either stay on an older version of Handbrake (Personally I still use 0.10.5 myself as I see no point in updating Handbrake at present.) or you will have to update your Windows 10 build to a more recent version (or install Windows 7 or 8.1 on which you can still install .NET 4.7.x).
Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.
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Most people do not care about updates. They do not want to postpone updates. They just want to use their PC. Those of us who are enthusiasts or have a specific reason not to update are the ones who may care. You have to remember that forums like this one emphasize problems which do no affect the great majority of users.
--Joe
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Surely this is a build ‘feature’ WIP (work-in-progress)? Or has it been conveniently forgotten about to stir up a storm (PR exercise)? I can see the articles popping up everywhere, only to be changed at RTM lol
‘less is more’ takes on a whole new meaning with MS, they must be confident about their patching framework.
Thank Woody for the MS-Defcon system and Susan’s Master Patch List is all I can say.No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created IT- AE1 user thanked author for this post.
So, it looks at first glance everyone (Home or Pro) will be updated to the new Build within 7 days of release. More Beta Testers for Microsoft early on. Even not all of the consumers with the Pro version dig in Group Policy or the Registry. Seems MS is moving the mindset to having no control in preparation for Microsoft 365, where the rented OS is online and there IS NO control over what changes are made and when they are applied.
They’re getting me ready to switch to Linux Mint at the fist sign of a serious issue. I’ve already fully tested it. It works great and found my networked printers faster than Windows 10. Since I sell and service Windows 10 PC’s, I really don’t want to stop using it. But, when the time comes, I’ll make the move. I’ve already been promoting Chromebooks with customers that don’t use any installed programs on Windows, only online sites. I loan them my almost six year old ThinkPad Chromebook to try. No one hates it. Some already switched. I wonder if Microsoft is intentionally driving consumers away from Windows.
GreatAndPowerfulTech
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I installed Fedora 29 on my friends mothers PC, so she can just to look on the internet, read some emails, etc.. No ads, no confusing OneDrive windows poping up, no Edge testing msftconnecttest, no notifications emerging from below, NO ANTIVIRUS.. I just installed OS and ask her, what the password should be.
Done. Here is firefox, that is all you need.
So extatic feeling.
Dell Latitude 3420, Intel Core i7 @ 2.8 GHz, 16GB RAM, W10 22H2 Enterprise
HAL3000, AMD Athlon 200GE @ 3,4 GHz, 8GB RAM, Fedora 29
PRUSA i3 MK3S+
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For some time now on 1803 and 1809: if you have any GP settings in the WU segment, the advance options screen gets truncated.
My fear on this news is that some of the GPEdit – WU options that appear valid on Pro are in fact not: they are ignored. They only work on the ENT editions.
Waiting to see if this is intended or not, but a potential scenario is that the feature deferral, even when set in GPEdit – might end up ignored on Pro sometime in the future. I really hope this is not the case!
Time will tell.
~ Group "Weekend" ~
4 users thanked author for this post.
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I hear ya, but….
I don’t think I have ANY settings in the Group Policy “Windows Update for Business” folder. I’ve tried hard to avoid making any changes at all to Group Policies.
(Another difference between my copy and Tero’s… I don’t have a watermark.)
1 user thanked author for this post.
The way I read this, it means that Microsoft is absolutely not backing down on its insistence of their definition of Windows As A Service, and where it’s being imposed on all users. In other words, not only two featureset updates per year, but near-zero capacity for deferral, even for Enterprise users (and heaven pity the poor schmoes that are paying for single licenses of Pro or Home editions).
I haven’t seen any discussion in this context, but I get the impression that Microsoft is also trying to make it harder to suppress reporting of telemetry data back, as well.
I guess that this corresponds with what @woody reported last week about revisions to Microsoft’s terminology, where it appears that they’re dropping the “ready for business” classification of the Current Branch for Business or Semi-Annual Channel (whatever they decide to be calling at the moment). It does seem that Microsoft’s attempts to elevate/escalate/accelerate updates (short of the originally-announced 3-per-year cadence) indicate that they’re getting significant customer resistance. Thus, their way of addressing that is to remove capacity for users to even defer updates (much less opt-out entirely) as much as possible.
I guess that Microsoft has decided that the only way the WAAS works is that if *everybody*is participating with both telemetry reporting, and getting updates deployed as soon as Microsoft pushes them out. The fact that updates may be disruptive, and it seems pretty clear that decision-makers in Redmond have decided that whatever disruptions happen are an acceptable cost, and the proverbial “you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”.
It wouldn’t surprise me if the decision-makers in Redmond may have concluded that the reason for the 1809 disaster happened because there wasn’t enough participation by early adopters. Thus, in response, force early adoption.
For many of us, the objection to the frequent updates comes from the perspective that these are our computers, that we have businesses to run and work to get done, and that we can’t afford Microsoft imposing updates on us, when the chances are far too high that they may be disruptive.
Unfortunately, all of that is addressed in the Win 10 EULA, of how Microsoft defines WAAS — even though we may provide the physical hardware, Windows belongs to Microsoft, and we’re merely paying for licenses to use it. And as a part of the EULA is what I call the “weasel clause” of contracts done under the Uniform Commercial Code — where they reserve absolute right to change the terms of the EULA unilaterally and in nearly any way that they choose.
In other words, it’s Microsoft’s world, and we’re just paying licensing fees to live in it.
6 users thanked author for this post.
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It wouldn’t surprise me if the decision-makers in Redmond may have concluded that the reason for the 1809 disaster happened because there wasn’t enough participation by early adopters. Thus, in response, force early adoption.
I hear what you’re saying but… man, can you imagine what would’ve happened if 1809 had been pushed at a faster rate?
5 users thanked author for this post.
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Microsoft is just testing how much abuse the unwashed masses will accept before the revolution to Linux Mint or a Chromebook, and for those that can afford it Apple gear. A quote from the WindowsReport website: “On the other hand, Microsoft is facing criticism for releasing builds without fixing issues that are still there for the last 3 major updates. These bugs have been reported to Microsoft for months but nothing has been done yet. ” That quote is from 04 March 2019. MS is just preparing us for a monthly utility bill to rent the OS maybe?
Microsoft plans to align Windows 10 and Azure development
Computers become slow when they sense that their servants are in a hurry.2 users thanked author for this post.
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A quote from the WindowsReport website: “On the other hand, Microsoft is facing criticism for releasing builds without fixing issues that are still there for the last 3 major updates. These bugs have been reported to Microsoft for months but nothing has been done yet. ” That quote is from 04 March 2019.
Based on reports which are 5 to 8 months old. The “nothing has been done yet” is blatantly untrue.
Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
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Enterprise users have much more control over updates than regular folk. That control is usually exercised by the IT department setting rules which are enforced by Group Policy settings. Often special update servers are setup to handle the download, approval, and distribution process.
--Joe
2 users thanked author for this post.
I guess that Microsoft has decided that the only way the WAAS works is that if *everybody*is participating with both telemetry reporting, and getting updates deployed as soon as Microsoft pushes them out. The fact that updates may be disruptive, and it seems pretty clear that decision-makers in Redmond have decided that whatever disruptions happen are an acceptable cost, and the proverbial “you can’t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs”.
When MS was using malware-like dark patterns to trick people into upgrading to 10 when they were actually trying not to, reports began to surface about a certain number of PCs that were rendered unbootable, and they could not be rolled back to the previous OS either, despite Microsoft’s assurances that they’d be able to do so. One MS employee and tech blogger who was not writing on behalf of MS, but who was nevertheless defending them, dismissed this with a statement that “it’s normal for a few patients to die on the table.”
An upgrade that carries a risk of rendering your PC unbootable? That’s just a chance Microsoft is willing to take!
There is still a significant number of Windows users who have yet to make the move to 10. MS is still trying to convince them to move as quickly as possible, as they have been for three years plus. What we’ve seen from the inception of GWX (which started prior to the release of 10) to the present is Microsoft playing nice!
If this is how they treat Windows users while they’re still trying to convince them that they should upgrade to 10, what will they do when Windows 10 owns most of the Windows market?
Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/16GB & GTX1660ti, KDE Neon
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, KDE Neon (and Win 11 for maintenance)2 users thanked author for this post.
Now, unless I missed something obvious (please tell me if I did!), it looks like Win10 Pro is going to get this same 7-day Pause Updates fig leaf,
All Insider Preview rings have been restricted to a 7-day Pause for more than two years:
My guess is that only computers which were getting Insider Previews see the 7 day maximum for pausing updates, as it was first noticed in 15048 on March 3rd (but not documented by Microsoft):
In Build 15048, which was released this past Friday, this option is still there but has been tweaked to reduce the number of days updates can be paused on a Windows 10 Professional system from 35 to 7 days.
Microsoft’s Update and Restart Modifications in Creators Update Hit the Mark for End UsersAnd I’m not sure that any Insider Previews ever had the options to defer feature or quality updates. (Why would they?)
But you’ve recommended that no one should ever use Pause Updates anyway, so what’s the big deal?
“I don’t recommend that you Pause Updates using this setting.”
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3215668/8-steps-to-install-windows-10-patches-like-a-pro.html#slide8Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
2 users thanked author for this post.
If this change holds for Win10 1903 (or 19H1, or whatever), & Pro has no availability to the “old” settings via GPEdit, then it’s useless to pay $100 for a Pro upgrade. I might as well move to Linux (Mint, probably) before 2019 ends. As I Still suspect, wearing my tinfoil hat or not, even if Win7 gets extended support that they must Pay for, Win8.1 will be targeted for the next 3 years with buggy updates. The goal being to force them to upgrade to Win10 whatever or give up & subscribe to Microsoft 365 when (if?) it becomes available. Thanks but No Thanks, Nadella & Micro$oft!
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...7 users thanked author for this post.
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I knew that I had a really bad feeling about this. Windows 8.1 stood out as by far the most stable OS during 2018, but its luck may be running out. I’m preparing my PC for the move to Linux, but until then, I’m strongly considering shifting my updates to Group B. M$ may be killing the Windows OS in order to develop something new.
I am no longer an active member of the forums.
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Settings GUI only.
Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
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I cancelled an order for a new box yesterday. It was to come with 10 Pro. With the watering down the Pro version is getting I may as well save the cash, use Home edition and stay with controlling updates via 3rd party utilities. Other required tweaks can be done via Registry as I have done with this machine for years.
Once a new machine does arrive, I’ll start playing with Unix on this machine (if I can figure how to install drivers for a Samsung ATIV keyboard).
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The UI being greyed out is a result of a setting a policy. You’ll probably see “settings being controlled by administrator” or something like that.
Does not mean anything has been or is about to removed.
--Joe
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All Insider Preview rings have been restricted to a 7-day Pause
That may well be the source of my confusion… but why isn’t Tero on an Insider Preview ring?
Perhaps the absence of a watermark is a clue.
I’m going to speculate that installing the just-released ISO reinstates the deferral settings in the Setting app, but those who have blithely gone from build to build have gotten the stunted end of the update advanced settings stick. I’d further speculate that those running from the ISO have a watermark, while those of use who have been going from build to build lost the watermark.
That would explain a lot. But I have no way of knowing whether it’s correct.
Sure wish MS documented this stuff….
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Microsoft does not want preview builds paused for more than a week. It makes no sense. The watermark is removed as we get close to an official build but I’ve not seen anything about it being removed in any of the release notes.
--Joe
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Well now I’m really glad I held off on upgrading my Win 10 systems from Home to Pro. I had a sneaking suspicion it was only a matter of time until Microsoft crippled the ability to delay updates in Win 10 Pro. Now it looks like I was probably right about that (unfortunately). To anyone who got suckered into spending $100 for the Pro upgrade, you have my sympathy. But this is just further proof of why Microsoft can’t be trusted anymore.
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If that would really happen, it’s exit all Windows machines here. Not only will it be unmanagable, it will also be totally irresponsible. Guess that will be the case for many businesses. It will just be EOL for Windows soon then. What a disgusting total disrespect for customers that demand a stable working environment. Microsoft is an unreliable, rude company 🙁
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I totally agree. M$ is plotting to cripple all previous versions of Windows and force everyone to upgrade to Windows 10. What’s going to happen next, M$ sending a behind-the-scenes quality update for Windows XP and Vista, bricking those machines, and making the victims buy new PCs and MACs? It would not be surprising to see that happen.
I am no longer an active member of the forums.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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To be honest, I started considering and treating Windows 10 as malware. And over a year ago we left this out of control disaster. Hello Mac (for now, Linux systems will be added soon actually). We wasted way too much time on fighting against stupidly buggy and above all unwanted updates and upgrades. Keep in mind that for smaller companies lucrative business/enterprise contracts are far out of reach in matter of price. So it was not a very difficult choice. Since the switch, we can focus on creativity and production again. That’s what a computer should be for, it’s not a billboard for Microsoft.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Leopeva64, posting on Tenforums, has a take that looks about right to me. Paraphrasing (with his permission):
I think that, when 1903 is released in April, both Pro and Home will be able to Pause for 35 days, instead of just 7.
At the moment, the button only allows a pause for 7 days, but that’s because it’s an Insider build (i.e., a beta version). In the past, Insiders can only pause for 7 days, but when the version is released, the limit is bumped up to 35 days.
For those running the Win10 1903 Home beta, pause updates is limited to 7 days, but when it’s released, I think it’ll get bumped up to 35 days, just like the Pro version.
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But assuming that 1903 ends up looking like the reports from Leopeva64, then most likely both Home and Pro will be able to delay updates by the same amount of time — up to 35 days.
Yes, but that’s just Pause (all updates).
Pro will also have Defer quality updates for a month and feature updates for a year as now:
Windows Update for Business is a free service that is available for Windows Pro, Enterprise, Pro Education, and Education editions. …
Both Feature and Quality Updates can be deferred …
Feature Updates 365 days
Quality Updates 30 days
Deploy updates using Windows Update for Business – updated 03/06/2019Windows 11 Pro version 22H2 build 22621.2361 + Microsoft 365 + Edge
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Well, Windows 10 May 2019 Update (V1903) is out – and the mess continues. I’ve documented it within my blog post:
Windows 10 V1903: The broken defer update options
Have forwared that article link to Microsoft’s developers. Let’s see, what we got as an answer.
Ex Microsoft Windows (Insider) MVP, Microsoft Answers Community Moderator, Blogger, Book author
https://www.borncity.com/win/
1 user thanked author for this post.
@b
I think they are talking about the released version, not the Insider Previews.Yes, I’ve ended insider program, to test the results.
Finally I found two pitfalls, I stumbled uppon – maybe people know that, I wasn’t aware of that – and didn’t read about that on other places. Here are the findings:
- It matters, if your account is a member of an administrator or a standard user group. Only administrator accounts show the two options to defer feature updates and quality updates.
- It matters, if the machine is are member of Insider program. I put the test system back to Release preview ring – and suddenly I have had an option to defer updates for 7 days, defer feature updates for 365 days and defer quality updates for 30 days. But short time later (after logoff and login again, the period to defer updates via date list box revert to 35 days.
That explains, why some users are seeing different options.
Or say it with Susan Bradley ….
Ex Microsoft Windows (Insider) MVP, Microsoft Answers Community Moderator, Blogger, Book author
https://www.borncity.com/win/
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