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  • Win10Tip: Wait for a stable version

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Win10Tip: Wait for a stable version

    This topic contains 26 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by

     David 2 years, 4 months ago.

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    • #19467 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      If you don’t want to be one of Microsoft’s unpaid beta testers, it’s easy to wait until new versions are ready for prime time. InfoWorld Woody on Wind
      [See the full post at: Win10Tip: Wait for a stable version]

    • #19468 Reply

      David

      Very good advice. But what happens if (or should I say when) Win 10 gets so messed up or bogged down that a user needs a hard drive reformat and OS reinstall (R&R)? Certainly with Win 7, users could reformat and reinstall Win 7 as long as they had a disk and a valid activation key, and then they’d start updating from the disk version. Dozens of updates and a few hours later, they got current.

      So with Win 10, if the earliest upgrade versions are no longer available, do users get the latest major version of Win 10 (for example 1607 if an R&R was needed today)? Or is starting over no longer an option anyway?

    • #19469 Reply

      BobbyB

      After the 1607 episode i wouldnt blame anyone for not wanting to be an unwitting beta tester but should curiostity get the better of you run it in a VHD its really not hard to do from the install to create a “native boot” VHD and I havent had any problems ever.
      1.get a hold of the latest & greatest offering from M$ on .ISO and create a DVD or Flash drive.
      2.Boot from it.
      3.first install screen press shift-F10.
      4.at X: prompt type >DISKPART
      5.next prompt type >create vdisk file=C:win10.vhd maximum=300000 type=fixed
      6.type >attach vdisk
      7.type >exit (twice and then set up as normal)
      8.choose the unpartitioned space at select location page and BAM! yer done.
      Just like the real thing and nothing wrecked at all but as always backup and have a recovery medium handy and or strategy you can even use the one youve just created.
      now for the bad news win7 only works on Enterprise & Ultimate, Win8.1 Pro & up, Win10 Pro & up.
      One drawback is that the VHD is not visible should you boot back in to your “real” windows thats easily fixed by visiting this page. https://www.medo64.com/vhdattach/ otherwise your forever going to disk management to “reattach” very reboot into your “real windows”, there other ways but its a “real song and dance.”
      When your done with the VHD simply “unattach” and delete as normal, to remove from your boot record select run>msconfig>enter> choose (Carefully!!!!) and delete.

    • #19470 Reply

      BobbyB

      addenddum:
      should read maximum=30000 & if your “real windows” is a home version thats fine you can only use the Adv. versions for the actuall VHD that your creating/installing. Theres lots of other options, tweaks, addl. functionality and ways to go about it but I endevoured to keep the paradigm simple and hey a bit of reading about the topic on the “interweb” will reveal all 🙂

    • #19471 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Microsoft posts ISOs of “clean” copies of each version of Windows, as it reaches CBB.

    • #19472 Reply

      James Bond 007

      Woody, you said in the article “Unless there’s a reprieve for the Win10 Long Term Servicing Branch, which is a different kettle of worms.”

      What do you mean by “reprieve”?

      As I understand it, the LTSB is eligible to receive security updates for 10 years, and will not receive any feature updates like 1511 or 1607. My interpretation is that if I have Windows 10 LTSB 2015 (1507), then I should be eligible for 10 years of security updates without worrying about feature updates that may drastically change the operation of the computer.

      Are you saying that this is no longer the case? Are you saying that if I have LTSB 2015, I have to upgrade to a newer version of LTSB in order to continue to receive security updates?

    • #19473 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Here’s Microsoft’s definition:

      Microsoft never publishes feature updates through Windows Update on devices that run Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB. Instead, it typically offers new LTSB releases every 2–3 years, and organizations can choose to install them as in-place upgrades or even skip releases over a 10-year life cycle.

      But…

      It’s possible that CBB users will be able to filch the security updates for 1507 even after 1507 goes to end of life with CBB, because they’ll still be produced for LTSB copies of 1507.

      I don’t know, and I don’t suspect we’ll know for sure until next March or April.

    • #19474 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      This is not the case.
      You would only miss out when new features are released which as consumer you may be interested to have.
      If you are not interested in the new features, why upgrading to Windows 10 in the first place?

    • #19475 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      This looks like the embedded XP updates which keep some people’s full XP alive.
      But if I can understand the nostalgia for Windows XP, what is so special about 1507?

    • #19476 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      I see tons of old updates for 1507 being expired by Microsoft in WSUS and in general this means that those updates disappear from Windows Update at the same time.
      This indicates the imminent retirement of 1507.

    • #19477 Reply

      fp

      Can any indiv install ltsb? I tried and it would not.

    • #19478 Reply

      Noel Carboni

      If I ever were to want to run Win 10 as more than a curiosity in a VM and put it on actual hardware I would certainly set up for the delay and only upgrade to Current Branch for Business releases. But even then I’d wait until the dust settled for a while after promotion to CBB.

      Virtualization is the way to go to learn about new features and run the customer beta and alpha test releases. I prefer VMware Workstation.

      But who are we kidding, even promotion to CBB is still happening far too often!

      MAYBE if Microsoft gets the cycle time up to a full year then it’ll be worth all the restoring of user parameters that are reverted, re-tweaking and re-augmenting with new versions of productivity tools that are made compatible with Win 10’s latest release.

      Who thinks the whole OS needs to be a constantly moving target? That’s just silly.

      -Noel

    • #19479 Reply

      rpodric

      Woody, I can’t quite make out in MS’s articles whether Enterprise ever gets major updates (e.g. 1607) via WU–not from a corporate source. Did that happen last time to your knowledge?

      I always thought that you had to use the ISO to upgrade, unlike all the other Windows editions (with the possible exception of EDU, which I’ve never used).

      But someone passed this image to me this week, which sure makes wonder. Perhaps as of CBB, MS pushes it out itself? I suppose it’s possible that the back-end for this is WSUS or SCCM.

      View post on imgur.com

    • #19480 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I don’t know, but the Feature Update “KB”, pushed out via Windows Update, is the “patch” that upgraded 1511 machines to 1607. See http://www.infoworld.com/article/3105827/microsoft-windows/how-to-temporarily-block-the-upgrade-win10-anniversary-update-version-1607.html

    • #19481 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Nope. As I understand it, you must have a volume license.

    • #19482 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Interesting. Wonder what happens to those in LTSB?

    • #19483 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      None that I know of. Mostly, it’s fear.

    • #19484 Reply

      George A. Chapman

      Windows 10 Without the Cruft Windows LTSB Explained


      October 4, 2016
      “How Can I Get It?”
      (VLA)
      (CSP)
      https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/evaluate-windows-10-enterprise
      (expand Description for 1607 and LTSB 2016)

      “… nag screens.”
      Not certain an activation key is available for LTSB 2016.

      LTSB 2016 KMS keys :
      https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj612867.aspx

    • #19485 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Thx!

    • #19486 Reply

      Bob Miller

      I currently am running the most recent version of Win10 Pro 1511 (10586.679).
      I run wushowhide and have not (yet) been offered 1607. Not sure why . . . except that I have “deferred” KB3150513, which (I believe) tells M$ that the computer is compatible with 1607 – is my thinking valid? Is that why I have not been offered 1607?

      What’s the consensus “out there”? Is 1607 REALLY ready for prime time? I still read a lot of unhappy war stories about it.

      Anyway, which version of 1607 has been declared CBB for business? Is there a way to download that version somewhere?
      Thanks!

    • #19487 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Yep, I think 1607 is ready for prime time – certainly in the sense that it’s better than 1511. Not sure why you aren’t seeing it. You don’t have any choice for which build – after you upgrade, you’ll be automatically rocketed to the latest build.

    • #19488 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      I think there will be 2 versions of LTSB supported for the lifetime of each OS, although there may be an unfair push to upgrade to the latest version?
      The main issue as I see it is the licensing model. For licensing purpose, LTSB 1507 and LTSB 1607 are different products.
      For those with ongoing SA, the license is not a problem, but for those who had SA when LTSB 1507 was released but discontinued when LTSB 1607 was released, they would not be able to upgrade as the MAK activation keys are different. The KMS activation for Windows 10 may work (I don’t know), but it would certainly not be within the legal requirements.

    • #19489 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      It does while putting up with nagging warning and few less essential user interface settings not working, but you would have to know what to do and it would be not quite within legal requirements.
      Do not ask for details, as I will not provide them, they are available on at least one of the mainstream web sites.

    • #19490 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      Enteprise, Education, Pro and Home have the same feature upgrade mechanism.

      Enteprise LTSB which is not meant to be used for general purpose has to be upgraded via ISO ad technically 1507 is a different operating system than 1607 with different licenses.
      One of the reasons not to use LTSB.

    • #19491 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      Like with windows 7, missing any patches gives you trouble.

    • #19492 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      I didn’t realize that. The only way to patch LTSB is by installing a new ISO….

    • #19493 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      It is technically not patching, but installing a new operating system with a new license agreement.

    • #19494 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      +1

    • #19495 Reply

      BobbyB

      @bob Miller you can find it here https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12387/windows-10-update-history i havent bothered going “main stream” with it. Actually still running 1511,the 1607ver lives in a VHD. Basically a few appearence pet peeves, new version coming early next year but appart from those issues its good to go no worries here. Main reason for really not going with it is basically i am too lazy to copy/backup/reinstall all settings doc etc. the above link d/loads a .exe file run it and create the .iso to your liking. I prefer a clean install, my self, but with the .iso you can choose and you have a backup image. hope this helps.

    • #19496 Reply

      George A. Chapman

      To elaborate on TechNet “Appendix A: KMS Client Setup Keys” :
      http://www.howtogeek.com/250503/how-to-upgrade-to-windows-10-enterprise-without-reinstalling-windows/
      Published 04/18/16
      “To upgrade, you just need a key.” (iow a setup key instead of an activation key)

      “And there’s the one downside to doing this: …” (watermark)
      “If you have a Windows 10 virtual machine or secondary computer you want to test these Enterprise features on, this is an excellent solution.”

      “This works even better if you do have a legitimate Windows 10 Enterprise product key …”

      “The above Microsoft web page lists keys for other editions of Windows 10, so you could instead convert to Windows 10 Professional, Windows 10 Education, Windows 10 Enterprise 2015 LTSB (Long Term Servicing Branch), and other editions of Windows 10.”

      “This process took us less than 20 minutes, even in a slower virtual machine.”

      “However, if you used a KMS key, your system will no longer be activated and Windows 10 will begin to inform you of this.”

      (expand “Join the Discussion”)
      “You also will not be able to get any Windows Updates.”
      (manually update it?
      otherwise, WSUS or SCCM)
      https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/windows/manage/waas-overview#servicing-tools

      “The biggest benefit for home and small business users is probably Windows To Go.”

      “I use the 90 day evaluation version of Win 10 enterprise in the windows to go configuration and boot off a usb 3 drive. It is a great tool for debugging hardware on multiple PCs. It can be rearmed …”

    • #19497 Reply

      James Bond 007

      I would say you are not supposed to upgrade LTSB during its lifetime anyway.

      I believe the whole point of LTSB is to provide a non-changing OS environment throughout its lifetime.

      Just exactly what I want. I have NO desire for the OS to change constantly, which is one of the reasons why I prefer using Windows 7 (and 8.1) right now, and it is also why if I were to use Windows 10 in the future it would only be LTSB and not the other versions.

    • #19498 Reply

      ch100
      AskWoody_MVP

      This is a very balanced approach in an article written by Ed Bott about the benefits and losses of using LTSB edition.
      http://www.techproresearch.com/article/is-the-windows-10-long-term-servicing-branch-right-for-you/

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