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  • Windows 10 1809 adoption rate is slow. And that’s good!

    Home Forums AskWoody blog Windows 10 1809 adoption rate is slow. And that’s good!

    This topic contains 51 replies, has 21 voices, and was last updated by  anonymous 1 week, 2 days ago.

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    • #244771 Reply

      woody
      Da Boss

      Gregg Keizer has his usual thorough review of the situation: No matter how you slice it, adoption of the latest version of the last version of Windows
      [See the full post at: Windows 10 1809 adoption rate is slow. And that’s good!]

      5 users thanked author for this post.
    • #244777 Reply

      radosuaf
      AskWoody Lounger

      Not good – the more testers, the better for us! 😉

      I’ll guess I’ll skip 1809 anyway and will wait for 2019H1 that looks a bit promising, while 1809 is bringing nothing to the table, really.

      MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit
    • #244780 Reply

      Microfix
      AskWoody MVP

      Two late feature upgrades on the trot, 1803 and 1809 causing issues, ain’t so hot!
      Perhaps the feature-upgrade framework NEEDS lengthened 9-12 months.
      One can only hope..

      | W10 Pro x64 | W8.1 Pro x64 | Linux x64 Hybrids | XP Pro O/L
      • #244783 Reply

        banzaigtv
        AskWoody Lounger

        You need to keep in mind that 1703 was the last good version of Windows 10. 1709 is a crash-fest. I would not be surprised if HP, Dell, Lenovo, etc. start selling PCs with Linux (even their own proprietary distros) pre-installed on them in order to cut costs and improve reliability of their products. I think that’s the way I see it now since people are getting fed up with buggy Windows 10 updates and nobody wants to buy overpriced Macs.

        *SUSPENDING MY FORUM ACTIVITY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE* i7-4790k, HyperX FURY 16 GB RAM, Galax GTX 980 HoF, Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB SSD, Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit

        • #244840 Reply

          warrenrumak
          AskWoody Plus

          Disagree that 1703 was the “last good version of Windows 10”.

          The rollout of 1809 was delayed because of some bugs, sure, but both here on Askwoody and on many other sites, you’ll find many people expressing their satisfaction with 1809.  Stability is good, control over Windows Update is significantly improved, visibility of Diagnostic Data is a lot better, and just about everything is tighter and faster.

           

          2 users thanked author for this post.
          • #244843 Reply

            radosuaf
            AskWoody Lounger

            here on Askwoody … you’ll find many people expressing their satisfaction with 1809

            Please describe “many” :). There is nothing interesting about this particular version, really. I’m not saying if it’s stable or not – simply the new features are not worth the hassle of updating. For me the first usable and sensible version was 1803, 2019H1 looks like it’s going to be the second one.

            MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit
      • #244934 Reply

        anonymous

        9 or 12 month feature release may take some of the deadline pressure off developers and may result in less buggy updates BUT, I suspect  bean-counters would just see higher development costs and the opportunity to reduce developer numbers. Nothing is ever simple when profit margins are involved.

    • #244791 Reply

      anonymous

      I pray that we don’t gotta have every 6 month update versions anymore. I say let 1809 be the LAST OF THE 6 MONTH VERSIONS! LET’S DOWNGRADE IT TO ONCE A YEAR FOR NEW VERSIONS! Microsoft and WIndows time to finally open your eyes! We the users want only a new version ONCE A YEAR NOT EVERY 6 MONTHS!

    • #244818 Reply

      anonymous

      The upcoming 19H1 version will be even worse. At this time, current 19H1 Preview builds break RDP (Terminal Service crashes permanently). It’s hard to image that the Microsoft kindergardeners get this and all the other bugs fixed until release.

    • #244847 Reply

      DennyC
      AskWoody Lounger

      It could be that the slow adoption rate is because of the many incompatible machines out there and a lot of those machines are brand new.  I for one have a new HP Spectre x360 that has crashed and burned twice trying to install 1809.  HP seems to be at a loss on what to do indicating driver issues.  In any case, it is sad that people with brand new machines are asking for refunds because they won’t take the 1809 update.  https://h30434.www3.hp.com/t5/Notebook-Operating-System-and-Recovery/HP-Spectre-15-ch055na-won-t-upgrade-to-1809/m-p/6849549#M543188

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #244849 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Good to see that more than 90% of Windows 10 users are now using versions 1803/1809.

      Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #244855 Reply

      NetDef
      AskWoody Plus

      We moved everyone onto 1803 a couple of months ago, it was far more suitable for our AutoCAD and Revit workstations than previous W10 builds.  1703 had some nasty graphical glitches, 1709 was pretty good, but 1803 has been the least troublesome build in our base.

      In the process of evaluating 1809 now, and other than the big known issues (which are almost all solved – even the mapped drives bug as of Dec 6th) we’ve observed that it’s stable and almost ready for deployment.  The only real issue for now may be of our own making:  GPO settings have needed tweaking, and as soon as we finish testing our changes to make that work to my satisfaction we’ll likely open the gate in February.

      ~ Group "Weekend" ~

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      • #244881 Reply

        ch100
        AskWoody_MVP

        @netdef This is interesting, because in general 1709 is considered one of the worst and the one to avoid from the recent releases, due to many incompatibilities. This refers mostly to Enterprise products, but still gives bad reputation in general.
        I maintain my point of view that for those who intend to update less often, the editions to use are those related to the major releases (Server, LTSB/LTSC) which are 1607 and now 1809. Keep those until the next major one is released, even after the end of the official support if this is the case and you will be safe enough for most purposes, unless there are major security threats, when it is widely expected that Microsoft would step in and provide out of band patches beyond the end of official support.
        The original 1507 LTSB should be ignored being history by now and not very reliable either.

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        • #244951 Reply

          NetDef
          AskWoody Plus

          Now I’m wondering if I mis-remember 1703 or 1709 being the bad one . . .  gah!  One of them was . . .  1803 has been golden so far.

          ~ Group "Weekend" ~

          • #245019 Reply

            ch100
            AskWoody_MVP

            I would say 1703 was the best one so far, while 1709 (ignoring old 1507 and 1511) was the worst.
            But it is all subjective and given a choice for only one version, I would choose 1607, although 1703 improves on it. This is because in my view 1607 is a main, long term service release version, while 1703 is seen as short term, transitional version.
            I used them all and even 1 year before 1507, but I may stop for few years at 1809.
            No guarantees when 1903 will be released though. 😉

    • #244890 Reply

      warrenrumak
      AskWoody Plus

      Please describe “many” :). There is nothing interesting about this particular version, really. I’m not saying if it’s stable or not – simply the new features are not worth the hassle of updating. For me the first usable and sensible version was 1803, 2019H1 looks like it’s going to be the second one.

      We must have different definitions of “hassle”.  On all my systems, it’s taken 15 minutes or less to install, and by default, the update is installed when you aren’t using your system.

      There are a number of small improvements with 1809, including the ability to install fonts as a non-administrator, Bluetooth battery levels & notifications, the ability to increase font size without increasing DPI setting (which went missing a few years ago), more precise magnifier levels, better navigation in regedit, Unix line ending support in Notepad…. all sorts of nice little things.

      It comes at no real cost, either.  No new weirdo UI decisions, no performance hits, no app-compat compromises, no new marketing tricks or telemetry deceptions. If anything, the visibility into telemetry is better than ever.

      Again — the only reason people are suspicious of 1809 is because of the initial stumble out of the gate.  But Windows Vista SP1, Windows XP SP3 and Windows 7 RTM all stumbled out of the gate, too, and they all proved to be quality releases pretty quickly.

      If you want to skip 1809 and wait for 19H1, hey, it’s your hardware…. but 19H1 is more likely to contain significant changes and stability concerns.  1809 is the version that Microsoft will be extra-invested in keeping stable due to it being the basis for Server 2019 and Windows 10 LTSC 2019.

       

      • This reply was modified 2 weeks ago by
         warrenrumak.
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      • #244953 Reply

        anonymous

        Absolutely agree with Warren points.

        I agree on tradeoff for free upgrades with data mining but ms does not sell them but use it to bind customers (cloud etc).

        Why no one complaints about Apple or Google going the same path ? Anyone of you fans of windows 7 would not use MacOS iOS or Android, or play games or use Steam etc because of telemetry (that MS and Google allows to configure by the way). Keep it fair .

      • #245027 Reply

        radosuaf
        AskWoody Lounger

        We must have different definitions of “hassle”. On all my systems, it’s taken 15 minutes or less to install, and by default, the update is installed when you aren’t using your system.

        Hassle is what you have to do AFTER it is installed, checking default apps, settings etc. Not sure if uninstalling bloatware is still part of the process…

        There are a number of small improvements with 1809, including the ability to install fonts as a non-administrator, Bluetooth battery levels & notifications, the ability to increase font size without increasing DPI setting (which went missing a few years ago), more precise magnifier levels, better navigation in regedit, Unix line ending support in Notepad…. all sorts of nice little things.

        My personal PC is basically a gaming console – I prefer to sit at the desk and use keyboard + mouse combo, otherwise I might get away with PS or Xbox. So for me it’s performance first, then stabity and the rest is rather unimportant. My work PC is stuck at 1709, as it is managed by IT Dept. and they decide :). Still, most useful W10-related stuff I use is window arrangement and Win + Shift + S combo, all the rest is a nice addition, but a very useful one.

        If you want to skip 1809 and wait for 19H1, hey, it’s your hardware…. but 19H1 is more likely to contain significant changes and stability concerns. 1809 is the version that Microsoft will be extra-invested in keeping stable due to it being the basis for Server 2019 and Windows 10 LTSC 2019.

        19H1 brings Retpoline to the table – while it won’t bring significant improvements, it’s always welcome, I like the UI being ironed out and a few smaller things. I’m on Pro, so I can wait until it stabilises before installing – and from the stability standpoint, the last Windows I had problems with was 98SE :). I’ve had XP -> 7 -> 8.1 -> 10 since and none of them gave me any serious problems I could remember of.

        MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit
    • #244908 Reply

      anonymous

      What concerns me is that Microsoft may try to double down on keeping the release cadence going.

      Remember that 1803 was late because of problems, but Microsoft put it into the Semi-Annual Channel, as if if it had released on the original schedule. 1809 is even further behind, but it seems likely that they’re going to push to catch up, to keep 1903 on schedule,  regardless of the consequences. And that could mean that they make it even harder for people to defer upgrades.

      Of course, Microsoft may not care. I remember that when they announced that they were delaying 1809 (and requisite downplay of severity) that they indcated that their most important customers (Enterprise) weren’t affected.  It still comes to everybody else acting as beta testers, and shields for the Enterprise customers.

      Microsoft’s service commitment to you: we’ll cash your check.

      • #244918 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Unfortunately, my gut feeling was the same. I expect MS to declare 1809 as “Ready for Business” (SAC) on Jan Patch Tues. (or there abouts). I think they are rushing things in an attempt to “stay on schedule.”

        Actually, I think the deadline they are pushing toward/against is not the next Feature Release, but Win7 EOL in Jan 2020. I think they are desperate to close out Win7 on schedule so it doesn’t linger like XP. They can cease to provide security updates. They can force the software/hardware vendors to stop supporting Win7. But I have my doubts at how effective they will be at strong-arming half their user-base.

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      • #244945 Reply

        anonymous

        I share the hesitation to believe, bordering on suspicion of outright lies. But I do recognize a glimmer of hope. Woody also mentioned it. Microsoft changed the label. Not unusual for them when they prevaricate and obscure their purpose.

        But this time it reads like an admission of the problem. Not loud, more of a whisper, but it is there. They do not say 1903, suggesting delivery by 12 March 2019 (2nd Tues), or the fallback of 31 March. Instead, early on, they renamed it 19H1. It took me a while to read that as “first half of two-thousand-nineteen by common era reckoning” = 2019 first half = 19H1.

        This resets the horizon to 30 June 2019 without breaking any perceived promises. It doesn’t fix the problems. But it does use language that communicates more clearly. I’ll count that as one point in their favor towards catching up. I would even like to thank the employee who risked suggesting the new label.

        • #245004 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Plus

          … 19H1.

          I would even like to thank the employee who risked suggesting the new label.

          I claim inspiration 😊

          When did Microsoft ever manage to name something in a meaningful way? (Could be 2018H1 Upgrade.)

          Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

          • #245207 Reply

            anonymous

            Well thank you @b, for breathing life into a more appropriate label.

            The hang up is mine. Q for quarter year and W for week don’t slow down my reading at all. There are lots of H-1es out there, from helicopters to entry visas. But my brain continues to suggest viral nomenclature, like 2009H1N1 influenza. Despite the software context, it takes an extra beat for the penny to drop.

    • #244927 Reply

      alkhall
      AskWoody Lounger

      I really do not understand why people continue to defend Microsoft and W10.

      I can understand that Microsoft wants to end the best OS they ever produced, W7, because they are not making money off of it due it not having the data-mining capabilities of W10.

      The sooner W7 goes away, the sooner I say farewell to Microsoft.

      All my hardware purchasing decisions, going forward, are based purely on Linux compatibility, so what does Microsoft gain?

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #244939 Reply

      b
      AskWoody Plus

      Microsoft’s service commitment to you: we’ll cash your check.

      And free updates for ten years?

      Actually, I think the deadline they are pushing toward/against is not the next Feature Release, but Win7 EOL in Jan 2020. I think they are desperate to close out Win7 on schedule so it doesn’t linger like XP. The can cease to provide security updates. They can force the software/hardware vendors to stop supporting Win7. But I have my doubts at how effective they will be at strong-arming half their user-base.

      Less than half now; 37%.

      I can understand that Microsoft wants to end the best OS they ever produced, W7, because they are not making money off of it due it not having the data-mining capabilities of W10.

      Any evidence for Microsoft making money off of data-mining in W10?

      Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

      • #244940 Reply

        PKCano
        Da Boss

        Less than half now; 37%.

        And what is the rate for  Win7 and Win10? Both in the 30’s also.  Thirty-something and thirty-something. So that’s roughly half and half.

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      • #244982 Reply

        anonymous

        Any evidence for Microsoft making money off of data-mining in W10?

        Windows 10 includes many ways to monetize the operating system. One of these methods is advertisements. Microsoft then uses the aggregate data from your activities to customize your online experience and deliver ads that are more tailored to your liking across Microsoft’s websites and apps.

        https://www.windowscentral.com/how-control-advertisement-windows-10

        https://www.pcworld.com/article/2986988/privacy/the-price-of-free-how-apple-facebook-microsoft-and-google-sell-you-to-advertisers.html

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        • #245000 Reply

          b
          AskWoody Plus

          Windows 10 includes many ways to monetize the operating system. One of these methods is advertisements.

          What are the others?

          Microsoft then uses the aggregate data from your activities to customize your online experience and deliver ads that are more tailored to your liking across Microsoft’s websites and apps.

          https://www.windowscentral.com/how-control-advertisement-windows-10

          So you can opt out if you prefer irrelevant ads in your browser.

          https://www.pcworld.com/article/2986988/privacy/the-price-of-free-how-apple-facebook-microsoft-and-google-sell-you-to-advertisers.html

          A quote from that link:
          Unlike some other platforms, no matter what privacy options you choose, neither Windows 10 nor any other Microsoft software scans the content of your email or other communications, or your files, in order to deliver targeted advertising to you.

          A comment from that link:
          An important distinction here is that only your internet searches and browser stuff is tracked for advertising. The only other place advertising info is collected is use of ad-supported apps. Your files, and computer usage is not part of this, despite some erroneous reports floating around.

          So no real evidence of data-mining by Microsoft to make money from Windows 10 then?

          Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

          • #245028 Reply

            Ascaris
            AskWoody_MVP

            anonymous wrote: Windows 10 includes many ways to monetize the operating system. One of these methods is advertisements. What are the others?

            Using consumers as beta testers in lieu of paid beta testers, which requires the telemetry data in question.  That’s the main way the data mining is being used to monetize people, as far as I can tell.  Yes, they’re using the data to “improve” Windows, just like they say.  What they don’t say is that the reason Windows needs so much improving is that this practice has replaced using paid professionals for the task.  If it was opt-in and done in addition to professional testing, I’d have no problem with it.  Opt-out, I’d have a small problem with that.  No opting out, I have a big problem with that.

            Removing the option to have local search only from start/Cortana, which drives traffic to Bing and provides the opportunity to serve sponsored links (another form of advertising).

            Non-removable apps that tie in with MS services, even if the user of the PC has not indicated any interest in using those services.  OneDrive, Xbox, and the like.  You could look at this also as yet another form of advertising for MS services.

            Unwanted downloads of game apps, which is paid for by the makers of said apps (in the hopes of getting more “freemium” microtransaction payments from the PC user).

            Use of “sync provider notification” messages to display ads for the OneDrive service (again, ads, but in yet yet another form).

            Inclusion of “Get Office” app, which cheerfully pops up an ad for Office in the notification area as soon as the new Windows installation is run.  (Yet yet yet again another form of an ad.)

            All those other forms of ads are in addition to the types of ads that were being discussed here, which would encompass the ones that appear in Solitaire (which always used to be ad-free, but isn’t anymore, less’n you pay for it), for example, as in other MS apps and MS web sites.

            I don’t want irrelevant ads instead of ones it thinks are relevant… I want no ads.

            Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux, based on Ubuntu 18.04)

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            • #245085 Reply

              lurks about
              AskWoody Lounger

              Ascaris,
              “I want no ads” – Amen.

              OSes and applications I paid for should never have ads and do not care how I paid for them.

              3 users thanked author for this post.
            • #245210 Reply

              b
              AskWoody Plus

              Monetize generally means making money, not saving money. I don’t see how Microsoft makes money from unpaid beta testers.

              I thought you were going to tell me how Windows 10 is monetized apart from ads, but you’ve just listed a handful of places where “ads” could theoretically appear.

              Still not seeing that “Windows 10 includes many ways to monetize the operating system“.

              Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

            • #245226 Reply

              Ascaris
              AskWoody_MVP

              I’m not the anonymous poster.  I didn’t make the comment about there being many ways MS monetizes Windows beyond ads.

              Nothing about any of them was theoretical… they all happened.

              A penny saved is a penny earned.  There’s no difference between using someone to save money and using someone to make money.  Money is fungible.  That’s monetization in my book.

              Pushing unwanted apps on people isn’t advertising.  They’re not trying to convince people to download them– they’re just making the decision for you; here they are, why not use them?  MS is being paid by the app devs for this unwanted delivery.  It’s monetization.

              Pushing people to use web searches when they don’t want to isn’t itself advertising.  It’s pushing traffic into a MS web service whether the user wants it or not.  Monetization.

              There are ads that are of the usual variety that people think of when you say “ads” in an internet/app context, the ones that observe the settings in question, but there’s a lot more than that.  Other people have argued with me in the past when I called things like the OneDrive promotion through the Explorer notification, the Xbox app, the OneDrive app, and the Get Office app “ads,” saying that they are not ads at all, but service promotions or tie-ins via Microsoft, whereas ads come from third parties.  They’re still monetization attempts, no matter what you call them.

              So there you have three forms of monetization that are not ads, and three more that are MS promos, which I call ads, but other people think are distinct.  If we go by that definition, that’s six forms of monetization that aren’t ads.  None of them are acceptable in a commercial product.  If MS wants to have a “freemium” version of Windows that is ad-supported, they should make it free, and have the Pro version completely free of all monetization.  To monetize it AND charge for it is just unacceptable.

               

              Group "L" (KDE Neon Linux, based on Ubuntu 18.04)

          • #245030 Reply

            radosuaf
            AskWoody Lounger

            An important distinction here is that only your internet searches and browser stuff is tracked for advertising. The only other place advertising info is collected is use of ad-supported apps. Your files, and computer usage is not part of this, despite some erroneous reports floating around. So no real evidence of data-mining by Microsoft to make money from Windows 10 then?

            How would the text above apply to this?

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2018/11/16/microsoft-wants-to-show-you-ads-in-the-windows-10-mail-app/#2cdbed0b2c2d

            MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit
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    • #244949 Reply

      anonymous

      I am sorry Woody this post is based on double standards.

      When MS is releasing bad piece of software you rightly report about it. If the pull it you report about it. Instead of thanking  they are fixing their stuff. If the distribution is a 6% after 2 months it’s too low. How high was the Android Pie or Oreo after one year, please? Didn’t they or Apple had quality issues, too?

      Please don’t spread fear or concerns.
      Microsoft did the right to pull 1809 fast because you and many other passionate people keep their fingers into wounds that quality comes before release.

      Please admit that the data loss issue was caused for people using known folder redirections once and then disabled it without redirecting back to the original place.

      Since 2014 I have my folders redirected to a network location at home. And it does happen with every release that known folders appear twice in explorer in the original location and the redirected location MS finally tried to solve (also my) issue by deleting unused duplicated folders. In fact the script missed to check if the folder to delete contained data or not. That’s a practical yet unforgiveable, coding mistake and scenario that was reported and should have seen proper testing.

      Secondly they finally fixed the network drives issue that still exist since Windows 7, and I kept reporting this for years and even opened support cases, paid. With the help of blogs like yours, Günter or Deskmodder they finally cared about it, while not being true to themselves that it is not a 1809 only issue.

      I’ve a complete different option why 1809 was such a disaster MS tried a perfect marketing timing to release Windows 10 1809, Server 1809 2019 and Office 2019 (onprem) as well as Exchange 2019.

      Seen from the schedule it was a complete failure. So much that they redesign Office icons post release. Oh my. But remember that this all happened before when they tried to align Release cycles.

      And they don’t only do this because of marketing effect but to offer consistent lifecycle of Office and Client and Server OS.

      Please don’t forget that Server 2012 is still supported and has not even a safer IE 11 because of former bad choices in support lifecycle ONLY.

      Windows 8 has got free upgrades to 8.1 has IE 11. Server 2012 did not. They better would have done it to iron it out. But ye, they were young and needed the money (for 2012R2). Also Vista and Server 2008 were disasters for admins.

      If you remember the fall releases get longer enterprise support now starting with, right, 1809.

      The decision is awkward but I doubt they will change this so shortly and so why would 19H1 be a better, issue free release when the 19H2 by definition has longer enterprise support ?

      Please consider to correct your article on the broad picture. You missed a lot of points.

      1809 like previous Windows 10 releases was delayed and pulled. Every single one have had release issues galore. And at the moment it is working and well working release – it is slowly getting better since 1507 and in consequence 19H1 should be an improvement.

      Why you need 1809?
      Much faster upgrade times
      Much faster installation of CU updates on Clients and Server
      Best possible Spectre protection (1st to 9th gen so far
      First release that won’t reinstall crapware during upgrade
      More powerful settings app and GPOs
      Better Defender +ATP
      Better high dpi support for old apps
      Much clearer behaviour if one chooses to disable microphone for ‘apps’.
      Longer support for Enterprise

      I agree this all could have been patched and we literally don’t need semi annual releases but on the other hand we should be a little bit more optimistic about the “slow” progress this OS is going through.

      Please remember the alternatives without Windows 10.

      Every good Windows release took 2 releases like Vista > 7 8 > 8.1 it took years to replace them in roll outs and software and drivers were mostly on strike because they did not recognize the new OS. At least these parts are gone for good.

      What would average user download in the past… I don’t know my version. What it is now? I’ve Windows 10 and all the drivers could be used backwards compatible (mostly) .

      How many Windows PE bases does one need back then for servicing, deployment etc !? One for every single OS and service pack. Dozens of drivers.

      Now : only the latest one. And eventually, if at all, one driver pack for each OEM for all devices to boot it up for deployment properly.

      What do I change for a new SAC version rollout. Quite nothing Upgrade via WSUS.

      ADK, PE and WIM file everything else remains same.

      Is this easier as anything before with XP >7 and 8.x yep.

      I won’t tell Windows 10 is perfect yet but it is half as evil when viewing it on the long term. We are all beta testers on the SAC-T? Yes. That’s why SAC exist. That’s why you can delay feature upgrades up to 365 days when using WuFB or Intune, or as long service is granted in WSUS  (since 19H1 7 days repeatingly for Home)

      Please keep up the good work and report about issues and things MS better would hide, but please don’t expect anyone that there will be no semi annual releases soon, or that 1809 isn’t worth it.

      I agree with Crysta about how much the WIP could lead to a nervous breakdown but they are not for production use anyway.

      They would not have chosen it 1809 as base for a LTSC server OS if the base is so badly made one can be happy about slow distribution.

      Sorry for the long rant. Please consider the criticism.

      Best regards,

      @alqamar

      1 user thanked author for this post.
      • #245035 Reply

        admin
        Da Boss

        Lots of food for thought. I’m particularly drawn to your list of benefits in 1809.

        I don’t see any benefit there that should require a new version of the OS. They’re all minor (but, for some people, important) improvements. Why does MS insist on re-installing everything, in order to provide some marginal enhancements to existing features?

        I also continue to insist that Home users should be treated like adults, and given the tools to reliably delay both cumulative updates and version changes. But that’s a different argument.

        1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #244961 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      They don’t seem in any hurry to push out 1809 got a couple of Win10 1803 Pro/Home machines I keep my eye on and as of today not a sign in WUMT (set to run on Log on) of the 1809 upgrade. Indeed the Pro machine’s set to 30+365 and SAC no worries there that seems to be working fine. Dec’s crop just showed up KB4023057 and KB44713331 of course the daily Defender signature update
      Home I would have thought there would have been as both are relatively recent Machines 2015/16.
      Begs the question maybe they should push the numbering system back 1803 was late 1803+1,2, 1809+1,2,3, at this rate one release date is going to spill over in to the next one. as we aren’t far of the next 1903+1,2,3, whenever it shows up 😉
      The cynic in me contends there may be a concerted push “apres patch Tuesday” tomorrow 08/01/19 we’ll see.

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #244971 Reply

      Cybertooth
      AskWoody Lounger

      Woody wrote:

      I hope, nay pray, that this means our every-six-months upgrade treadmill is coming to an end.

      Wonderful turn of phrase, “upgrade treadmill.”  🙂   <kudos>

    • #244978 Reply

      Arvy
      AskWoody Lounger

      As my user data folders were never redirected and I use 7-zip rather than Windows file explorer for compressed archive management, I “luckily” avoided any problem with W10.1809 even in its initial release form.  More to the point, I’ve experienced no problems at all with its current 17763.195 build.  In fact, I’d now classify it as one of the most stable W10 releases that I’ve experienced to date.  So I can’t help wondering exactly what residual real issues are seen as making its slow adoption a “good thing”.

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by
         Arvy.
      1 user thanked author for this post.
      b
      • #245001 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        The latest version always has to be dreaded.

        Until a more frightening one appears on the horizon.

        /s

        Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

        • #245047 Reply

          Arvy
          AskWoody Lounger

          Well, I’d have no problem or disagreement with the notion that cautious platform assessment and rollout management is certainly advisable, but that’s not at all the same as saying that slow adoption is a “good thing”. In fact, it seems just a little bit contradictory given all the gripes about previous releases. But perhaps I’m missing the point somehow.

          1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #244983 Reply

      BobbyB
      AskWoody Lounger

      Chris Hoffman over at How to Geeks has an interesting take on the situation that I alluded to earlier: https://www.howtogeek.com/400961/windows-10-is-only-making-windows-fragmentation-worse/ maybe M$ should consider Annual releases rather than the twice yearly nightmare, preaching to the converted I know but it would make sense to everyone concerned and even financial sense to the financial beast that M$ has become.

      • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by
         BobbyB.
      • #245002 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Yeah, but he says it matters and then explains why it doesn’t!

        Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

    • #245031 Reply

      Carl D
      AskWoody Lounger

      Actually, I’ve been running 1809 on my main PC for just over a month now and I have to say I am having absolutely no problems with it at all.

      I don’t have Candy Crush or any of it’s ilk installed by making sure the PC didn’t have an Internet connection during the W10 install AND turning off and removing the ‘live’ tiles on the Start Menu before connecting to the Internet – you must turn off and remove the live tiles or else Candy Crush and the other rubbish WILL download and install as soon as you connect to the Internet even if you don’t have an Internet connection during the W10 install. Found that out through ‘experimentation’.

      I also ‘tweak’ all of my privacy settings, etc. before allowing W10 to connect to the Internet. I then use the ‘Tools’ option of CCleaner to remove all of the other junk that does get installed with W10, Internet connection or not (Xbox, etc.) so I end up with a nice, as cleaned up as I can get it Windows 10.

      The only things I can’t get rid of from the Start Menu are ‘Connect’ and ‘Cortana’ (even though Connect was supposed to be removed with CCleaner). I just ignore them. And Cortana has been turned into a ‘normal’ search function courtesy of Windows Privacy Dashboard which also tweaks a lot of other privacy settings (everywhere I look in my settings I see lots of options turned off and greyed out with “*Some settings are hidden or managed by your organization”).

      Very pleased with 1809 so far, shame that MS will probably come along and spoil it all with the next release in a few months time.

       

      • #245039 Reply

        radosuaf
        AskWoody Lounger

        Well, installing W7 or W8.1 was just a breeze, compared to your procedure outlined above…

        MSI H110 PC MATE * Intel Core i5-6402P * 2 x 8 GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 2133 MHz * Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1050 Ti D5 4G * Samsung 840 EVO 250GB SSD * Western Digital Blue 1TB HDD * Seagate Barracuda 1TB HDD * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Creative X-Fi XtremeGamer PCI * Windows 10 Pro 1803 64-bit
        • #245170 Reply

          anonymous

          It seems that the binaries in Germany and US differ. Again upgrading to 1809 will no reinstall previous uninstalled c**pware.

          So Carl’s procedure is not necessary for everything. And no, radusuaf installing Windows 7 wasn’t a breeze, neither Windows 8 or 8.1

          Each of them needed hundreds of updates and several restarts just to get more updates. And

          8.0 needed a upgrade to 8.1 and 8.1 needed an upgrade to update 1. Each of them did NO OTHER as Windows 10, reinstalling the OS.

          I install Windows 10 in about 4 minute install 4 updates. 26 Apps will update in a few minutes.

          So I am ready in about 25 minutes including all drivers nearly up to date without running any setup.exe and just 3 restarts in sum 2 imitated by the Windows setup.

          That’s a breeze.

          Cheers,
          @tweet_alqamar

    • #245213 Reply

      banzaigtv
      AskWoody Lounger

      I find it extremely hard to believe that some users are calling 1809 flawless. With all those bugs on 1809 and now buggy updates on 1803, I’m losing my trust in Microsoft. I’ll roll with Windows 8.1 as long as I can, but I just about got all my open-source program alternatives lined out for a possible move to Linux. There’s only so much you can do on that platform, but sooner or later I’ll have no choice. Claims that 1809 is trying to stabilize will not convince me to return to Windows 10.

      *SUSPENDING MY FORUM ACTIVITY UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE* i7-4790k, HyperX FURY 16 GB RAM, Galax GTX 980 HoF, Samsung 850 EVO 1 TB SSD, Windows 8.1 Pro 64-bit

      • #249581 Reply

        b
        AskWoody Plus

        Did anyone say flawless? Which are the buggy updates for 1803?

        Cannon fodder Chump Daft glutton Idiot Sucker More intrepid Crazy/ignorant "Toxic drinker" (Group ASAP)

        • #250523 Reply

          woody
          Da Boss

          What’s weird is that there’s a DHCP client security patch that’s only for 1803. No other version, before or since.

      • #309330 Reply

        anonymous

        banzaigtv wrote:
        I just about got all my open-source program alternatives lined out for a possible move to Linux. There’s only so much you can do on that platform, but sooner or later I’ll have no choice.

        Sorry dude, but I disagree with your analysis.

        Many folks are quite happy – and quite productive – using *nix-based systems. Less expensive, more secure, more stable, less bloated (i.e., less resource heavy wrt disk space, ram, cpu cycles), more privacy respecting… what’s not to love?

        Regarding software: with (a) the abundant software options freely available for installation and use in the software repositories of major distributions, and (b) the option of using Wine to run major “Windows only” programs on *nix-based systems, and (c) the continuing rise of cloud-based computing options (e.g., adobe creative cloud, microsoft office online), even the most intransigent remaining corner cases (e.g., “i’m-a-graphic-artist-and-we-only-use-adobe-software-products”, “the-boss-says-we-gotta-use-microsoft-office-cuz-well-he-didn’t-really-have-any-good-reasons-but-he-seemed-adamant”) continue to weaken…

        Bottom line: these days, unless you’re a hardcore gamer looking for max performance on high-end AAA+ games, use of Windows is a choice – not a requirement.


        Also, fyi, AskWoody has a forum specifically for Linux-related news and musings (observations, criticisms, questions, etc.):
        https://www.askwoody.com/forums/forum/askwoody-support/other-platforms-for-windows-wonks/linus-for-windows-wonks/

        Please start a thread if you’d like to get more specific regarding your needs, experiences, and issues… we’d love to hear the specifics behind the “only so much you can do” conclusion you expressed above.

    • #245216 Reply

      bbearren
      AskWoody Plus

      I don’t do clean installs except on new builds.  I’ve upgraded since going to Windows 95 from Windows for Workgroups 3.11.  I had to break that train to get to Windows 7, because I skipped Vista entirely and there was no upgrade path from XP.

      I’ve been from 7 to 8 to 8.1 to 10, and all the upgrades since without any clean installs.  I built a NAS box and installed Windows 10 Pro on that, but that’s it.  I’ve had no real issues along the way, other than the hiccup with 1809.  I didn’t lose any data, but after Microsoft pulled it, I restored a drive image back to 1803 and waited for the re-issue.

      Once 1809 became available via the Media Creation Tool, I upgraded my main desktop, then my Dell Latitude E5420.  No problems with either.  On the NAS, I waited until it was offered on “Check for updates” in All Settings, and upgraded it just a few days ago.  No problems there, either.  My NAS has a RAID 10 array with four 3TB drives, but the OS is installed on an mSATA SSD.

      I let Windows Update run normally, don’t block any, and everything is fine on all my machines.  I routinely make weekly drive images, so if anything should go south, I’m just a few minutes away from being right back where I came from, just like the first round with 1809.  My data is backed up on three separate drives in two machines and in drive images stored in disconnected HDD’s, as well as on OneDrive.

      My drive images are all handled via Task Scheduler, and every couple of weeks I’ll plug a HDD into the drive dock in the top of my NAS and take copies completely offline.  For me, that’s a whole lot easier than researching each and every KB that comes out of Redmond and worrying about a pooched update.  I can restore my Windows partition in less than 10 minutes and it’s like nothing ever happened.

      Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

      "The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow
      "When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

      "Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

      1 user thanked author for this post.
    • #309339 Reply

      EP
      AskWoody_MVP

      hi woody

      there’s this article from ZDNet that in the next Win10 release, home users may get an option to pause or delay updates for up to 7 days:

      https://www.zdnet.com/article/windows-10-home-users-will-soon-be-able-to-pause-updates-but-only-for-7-days/

      1 user thanked author for this post.

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