There are so many half-truths, mistakes, and simple lies floating around about Win7’s demise that I put together a lengthy list. Keep in mind that man
[See the full post at: Windows 7 end of support: Separating the bull from the horns]
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Patch reliability is unclear, but widespread attacks make patching prudent. Go ahead and patch, but watch out for potential problems. |
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Windows 7 end of support: Separating the bull from the horns
- This topic has 51 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 10 months ago.
AuthorViewing 25 reply threadsAuthor-
Anyone else here old enough to remember IBM’s FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt) campaign? MS learned that lesson well.
GaryK
3 users thanked author for this post.
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Even home users aren’t really out of support until next month – or the beginning of March if that is when Defcon followers would normally have installed the February updates (as I see I did in both 2018 and 2019) the absence of which will be the real basis on which support will end for most users.
Sure, a few users will miss being able to contact MS about Windows 7 in the meantime but for most users support simply means the monthly game of Russian Roulette with their machines, and they’ll be playing that for a few more weeks yet.
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Yes, Aero is very good. Not only beautiful, but also good, because it helps perceive the windows better because of how our mind operates. But I think that Aero was best in Vista, because Windows 7 also uses Aero for a maximized window, whereas Vista didn’t. And that better fits how the mind works, because when maximized, there is no need to know what is underneath a window. In that case it can be confusing.
Then there is Windows 10: back to the old days when computers were still rather new. Old fashioned klunky windows, but now made for a tablet. From a UI and especially user usability perspective a big step back. All because Microsoft wanted to conquer the tablet and mobile market… We all know lots went wrong there.
ASRock Beebox J3160 - Win7 Ultimate x64
Asus VivoPC VC62B - Win7 Ultimate x64
Dell Latitude E6430 - Win7 Ultimate x64, Win10 Pro 22H2 x64 (multiboot)
Dell Latitude XT3 - Win7 Ultimate x86
Asus H170 Pro Gaming - Win10 Pro 22H2 x646 users thanked author for this post.
I am still using “Aero”. I prefer the “Classic” view, but one can only stream video properly, without it tearing into several left-and-right oscillating horizontal stripes, with “Aero.” So it has been”Aero” for me, for a number of years, and “Aero” still is.
But now that Windows 7 has reached EOL and its very last security updates are at hand (I am not subscribing to any post-EOS patching service), I don’t plan to watch videos any longer when running the good old OS, in years to come, so screen tearing is not going to be an issue anymore. I’ll watch videos using browsers (e.g., FF or Chrome) while running Linux, that already have in dual boot with Win 7.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
Thanks Woody.
Will you be distinguishing between those security updates for Windows that have now ended outside of any possible one-off emergency updates and those other monthly updates that will still be released such as for Office? Which category do IE and .Net Framework updates fall in, for example? Or is there any suggestion (I haven’t seen one) that no updates will be offered to Windows 7 users at all, even for products that are still supported? Those are the sort of issues that I suspect a lot of ordinary users will be confused by – not least if they switch their computer on next Patch Tuesday and find they have Windows Updates when they were led to believe that they were all ending yesterday.
1 user thanked author for this post.
The article says:
No, Microsoft Security Essentials won’t get updated. You need to move to a different antivirus.
I just tried to update and got definition files created on 15-1-2020.
Version 1.307.2401.0
W10&11 x64 Pro&Home
3 users thanked author for this post.
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My understanding is that there won’t be any new client updates but that definition updates continue – as like you I’ve just installed new definition updates and my computer is showing as protected.
5 users thanked author for this post.
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My understanding is that there won’t be any new client updates but that definition updates continue – as like you I’ve just installed new definition updates and my computer is showing as protected.
I can’t remember when the MSE client on my system was last updated anyway. So, no MSE client updates, but MSE definition updates continuing, is just business as usual as far as I am concerned. So I am not sure why Woody was recommending a “move to a different antivirus”, at least in the short term.
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Same here. I think it’s the platform itself that is is not going to be updated, but that the definitions will continue. I do remember seeing something on here before Christmas about that, and it’s on MS’s MSE page:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/17150/windows-7-what-is-microsoft-security-essentials
“Will Microsoft Security Essentials running on my system continue to run?
Yes, we will continue to provide signature updates for Microsoft Security Essentials until 2023.”Now, this begs the question about the safety of running an engine/platform no longer supported. but the defs are. Kind of a pushme-pullyou from MS…personally, I ran XP ‘way past it’s life with an old AV engine that still put out defs for quite a while with no trouble.
Just got def version 1.307.2430.0 Jan 15th.
Clarifying info needed on “Getting a new AV” (yes/no), and how soon???
Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Greenhorn
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"Nine out of 10 doctors say Acid Reflux is mainly caused by computers."The end of an era. For me, this marks the end of the desktop era as Windows 7 was the last offline desktop operating system from Microsoft, today all we get is cloud services. Also, with the “death” of Windows 7, Microsoft, Apple and Google now have complete monopoly over the operating systems, our data and the internet. This makes me sad.
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You might think it’s okay for Microsoft to collect things as running processes, full memory dumps, key input, browser history etc but most people do not. If you think that Microsoft’s only intent when collecting this data is to improve the operating system, then I recommend that you go watch Barnacules’ Youtube videos about Windows 10, he’s a former Microsoft employee who talks a lot about the sketchy “telemetry” in Windows 10 as well as the instability of the operating system among many other things. I’m pretty sure that a former Microsoft employee knows more about Microsoft’s products than you and me.
7 users thanked author for this post.
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For what it’s worth, a couple days ago in Task Scheduler I disabled two EOS tasks. So far my Win 7 Pro SP1 daily driver has given me no indication that Win 7 is no longer supported (the machine is up to date through the December patches). Windows Update is working as normal as is Security Essentials (I’ve downloaded updated definitions twice today, Jan 15)
1 user thanked author for this post.
All of this is laughable. I know a guy still running Win 98.
If you like Win 7, use a good antivirus and a VPN. You can use a virtual OS. You can use Browser In A Box which virtualizes either Firefox or Chrome. Use Tor. Don’t download torrents. Optimize your router settings. Use a proxy.
I have a question concerning antivirus for Win7 going forward. Does anyone have a recommendation for one that is similar in nature to the low resource use of MSE?
I am currently running Malwarebytes 3 paid version with real time protection along with MSE and plan to continue using MSE as long as possible. I have the option of moving to Malwarebytes 4 which is supposed to include antivirus as well. I know it is early for Malwarebytes 4 at this point as it has just been released several months ago. I was thinking about using Malwarebytes 4 for both antivirus and malware but would really like feedback as to whether you think that would be safe or is there a better option. I fortunately have a lifetime key for Malwarebytes if that makes a difference.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I was looking for a lightweight AV a couple of years ago to run on 2 old, relatively slow PCs and I picked the free Panda AV. At the time they called it something like Panda Cloud, but have since renamed their entire AV family “Panda Dome <something>” where the <something> indicates the level of protection. The free (just an AV) version is essentially the same now as then, just rebranded. I have had no problems with it since. It has warned me of a few suspect downloads and sites.
I run Malwarebytes and occasionally Emsisoft Emergency Kit (EEK) scans every week or two as a secondary check, and neither have spotted things Panda missed. (I use EEK because it includes Bitdefender definitions as well as Emsisoft’s own definitions, and Bitdefender usually performs well in AV tests.)
At the time Panda did need to perform more checking online than the competition, so worked (and works) better when online, but today I believe many or most of their competitors also check online to some extent, so that is not so much of a difference. As we are most likely to encounter problems when online this seems reasonable.
I have never used MSE, so I cannot make a direct comparison.
In terms of effectiveness, the recent AV-Comparatives results shows Panda at 99.6% slightly better than “Microsoft” at 99.3% in their “real-world protection test” (see https://www.av-comparatives.org/comparison/ ) and comparable at 99.99% versus 99.96% in their “malware protection test” (against their store of dodgy samples). I assume “Microsoft” here is actually W10 Windows Defender, but I’d guess that this has much in common with W7 MSE, so is a reasonable comparison.
HTH. Garbo.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I’ve been running MBAM 4 for a while now and not had any issues (Win7 64bit)
MBAM v3 was a dog so I stayed on v2 as there were so many problems, but I was very pleasantly surprised when I tried v4, no problems at all so far
Edit: I’m on the paid version btw
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Garbo adds to the 16th January comment above: I wrote too soon above!!!
For a few hours, the MBAM 4.0.4 service (MBAMservice.exe) had been running continuously on one of the cores of my PC’s processor. It was getting warmer as a result and increasing the speed and corresponding noise of the PC’s fan, which is how I became aware of it.
I have uninstalled MBAM 4.0.4 again and re-installed MBAM 3.8.3. Both the PC core usage by the MBAM service and the fan speed have gone back to normal i.e. core usage is fractions of a percent most of the time (according to ProcessExplorer) when the PC is idle.
And while writing this I have just ignored a nagging message suggesting I update MBAM, presumably from 3.8.3 to 4.0.4?
HTH. Garbo.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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I just needed to add this after reading the article:
For people who ask what a RAMDAC is
(Short answer: Commonly used in video cards, nowadays part of the GPU chip, but once-upon-a-time separate. The IBM ones were particularly pretty compared to the plain-jane looking ones from Bt).
We are SysAdmins.
We walk in the wiring closets no others will enter.
We stand on the bridge, and no malware may pass.
We engage in support, we do not retreat.
We live for the LAN.
We die for the LAN.1 user thanked author for this post.
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We used to have something similar on our cube walls (infuriated The PHB):
“We, the unwilling, led by the unknowing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much, for so long, with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.”-
-Konstantin Jireček
Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330, Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Greenhorn
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"Nine out of 10 doctors say Acid Reflux is mainly caused by computers."1 user thanked author for this post.
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So why are businesses paying for the privilege of Extended Support Updates? Tax dodge?
I suspect they’ve gotten themselves into a computing situation where their business depends on a particular set of hardware and software, some of which either doesn’t work with/on Win 10 or they just don’t have time, money, and/or expertise to dive into their particular mire and create a plan to bring them up to date. “If it works don’t fix it” taken to an extreme, with justification.
Microsoft seems to imply, with their policies and software, that it’s all about running the Microsoft software. It’s not. For many businesses it’s all about doing the particular things needed to run that business and no more, without a constant need for re-investment in change.
Some computing simply doesn’t need new computers with more power and new operating systems with more need for that power.
Newer is not always better. In my experience it is only rarely so.
A case in point… In my home office I have a good workstation, circa 2012/2013 with top of the line Xeon and SSD hardware of the era. It has been running my original installation of Windows 8.1 since 2013, with some additional hardware added over time, and it runs REALLY well. It does all I need, mostly instantaneously. In my work office I have a circa 2019 workstation with top of the line modern Xeon/m.2 hardware running Windows 10, fully up to date. By every indication of the specifications the newer machine should be at least twice as fast. Trouble is, it’s not. It’s about the same to use. Big applications like Visual Studio and Photoshop start and do their things just about equally quickly on either system.
I believe I’m in a unique or at least rare position to be able to compare these two eras of systems daily.
In my observation, the Windows 10 bloat has soaked up virtually all of the extra performance, yet frankly there is simply no fabulous new functionality in the newer operating system that makes it more useful or productive in any way. The ONLY thing so far that I find marginally better about my Win 10 system is that I can select a dark theme for Explorer, and you’ve got to admit that’s a pretty small gain for an additional $10K in hardware investment and having to deal with constant update issues, vs. my older system delivering the same productivity month in and month out without hassles.
-Noel
16 users thanked author for this post.
And finally, Yes, you should move to something other than Win7. Eventually.
“Eventually” reminds me of Dave Van Ronk‘s lyric: “They tell me it’ll kill me but they don’t say when”.
It is also said that most men who last into their 80’s will get prostate cancer, but they won’t say when. Those that do will die of some other cause before PC kills them, so treatment then is pointless. I was smart, I got the dreaded PC at 53, obliterated it with a couple of photon torpedoes, now I’m cruising.
I plan to do the same with Win7 Home Premium. So long as Firefox runs on Win7 (which those FF rebels will make sure it will), and so long as I can find internet security software and a VPN service that run on Win7 (which I will) I am staying put.
If I recall correctly, Canadian Tech expects to keep his herd of Win7 machines going for at least another five years. My plan is to beat that.
What I will NEVER do is switch to another M$ OS like Win10, a monstrosity envisioned by salesmen driving the stagecoach and lashing the tech team to go ever faster so they can collect bonuses for arriving ahead of schedule, never mind that a wheel has shattered and another has come off, and three of the horses have died from exhaustion.
In the meantime, in case I am overly optimistic, on the principle of “hope for the best but prepare for the worst”, I am learning Linux, and will load it on a separate partition on my HD as a fall-back.
But I will NEVER move to Win10!
7 users thanked author for this post.
<this is not the off topic you are looking for>
“Eventually” reminds me of Dave Van Ronk‘s lyric: “They tell me it’ll kill me but they don’t say when”.
Wow not many who know of Dave. Met him at a girl friends party, good times. Good luck w/ W7 forever, I went to the darkside a couple of years ago, no real regrets, several Linuxes on external disks.
🍻
Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.2 users thanked author for this post.
Cons of Windows 10 – telemetry, forced updates, settings are in unfamiliar places, some rare software is incompatible, it encourages use of a Microsoft account and letting them store some of your data.
Reasons those are not a big deal – telemetry and updates are easily turned off or managed. Although everything is moved, settings can be found by text searched and the classic control panel does still exist. The incompatible software is much rarer than many people think. Microsoft account is still optional if you install when offline.
Pros of Windows 10 – the promise that future software will be compatible with it, the promise that it will be the final version of Windows so you won’t have to pay or do a migration again and that once you learn it you are set. Graphics drivers for 10 are less buggy than 7 ones were (and all other drivers). Dark mode (small but nice). Features like active hours and update deferral allow better use of automatic updates if you choose. If you want to buy a new computer, it may be difficult to get Windows 7 drivers for it or even to find a way to buy Windows 7. Windows Defender is a very good antivirus, even better than MSE for Windows 7 was. WSL to run Linux software within Windows is looking good. Familiarity with Windows 10 will allow you to use computers other people own or at an employer.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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“Graphics drivers for 10 are less buggy than 7 ones were (and all other drivers).”
that is not always true especially for older hardware, mr anonymous
mostly there are no Win10 specific graphics drivers for older graphics hardware [take Intel Sandy Bridge graphics drivers for Intel HD Graphics 2000/3000 for example – Intel did not release any Win10 specific graphics drivers for Sandy Bridge or older series]1 user thanked author for this post.
All of this is laughable. I know a guy still running Win 98.
If you like Win 7, use a good antivirus and a VPN. You can use a virtual OS. You can use Browser In A Box which virtualizes either Firefox or Chrome. Use Tor. Don’t download torrents. Optimize your router settings. Use a proxy.
Yes, indeed. Also many people still on XP. A former client has several non-internet connected and never-patched XP machines that run a proprietary database. I have always compulsively patched my Win7 PCs–FUD is powerful, and we are easy to stampede–but I know several people who have never patched theirs and never suffered any consequences.
GaryK
3 users thanked author for this post.
woody & Susan:
the latest Windows 7 rollup seems to break desktop wallpaper or cause a “black” desktop problem:
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