Windows Defender sufficient protection?

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I would like to know whether Windows Defender is sufficient protection for Viruses, Spyware & Malware. If not, can anyone recommend what other software I should be using

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That’s not an easy question to answer, since it really depends on what you do and how you behave online, so it must be your decision.

Defender incorporates pretty much what before was known as MSE, so it is as good as MSE was, which means it was a below average AV. I don’t like it and I wouldn’t use it as my single security app.

I use Emsisoft AntiMalware. It uses two different detection engines, features behavioral detection (which would stop things such as the recently infamous CryptoLocker, which most AVs failed to do when the threat first appeared) and it’s very light on resources. It’s a paid app.

I also use a HIPS – Online Armor. This may be something you may want to consider or not. I use it as my ultimate malware stopper – basically it doesn’t allow anything to run which I don’t authorize. This is something I recommend or I wouldn’t use myself, but you need to know what it does before deciding to go with one.

At the very least, you should have a very good AV. Emsisoft Antimalware is among the best.

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Howard,

I like Rui like to have something else running usually Malwarebytes PRO. That said however when I got my newest machine in July it came w/Win 8 std and I upgraded it to PRO and then to 8.1 Pro and until 2 days ago when I snagged a deal {Thanks OldiesJock} on a couple of licenses for Pro I’d been running the machine with only Windows defender and occasional scans with WDO and Malwarebytes Free w/o incident! Of course, I’m very careful about where I go on the web and have both HW & SW firewalls.
YMMV! HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Hi Rui & RG.

Thanks for the advice. I have Windows 8.1 which comes standard with Windows Defender, but will get a good AV program installed as well

Regards

Howard

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Hi Rui & RG.

Thanks for the advice. I have Windows 8.1 which comes standard with Windows Defender, but will get a good AV program installed as well

Regards

Howard

You’re welcome.

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I would like to know whether Windows Defender is sufficient protection for Viruses, Spyware & Malware. If not, can anyone recommend what other software I should be using

In my opinion, Windows Defender is junk. I would go with something else.

I use Trend Micro; but it’s not free. I pay $50 per year (I think) for three PCs to be protected. So far, I am very pleased with it.

If you want something free, try Avast. The only caveat is that you will need to manually update the program; the free version doesn’t do auto updates.

It may be that you can set up Avast in Task Scheduler to do auto updates that way, but I haven’t really looked into it.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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If you want something free, try Avast. The only caveat is that you will need to manually update the program; the free version doesn’t do auto updates.

The free version of Avast http://www.avast.com/index does autoupdate – very frequently, often more than once a day. I use it and consider it one of the best.

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If you want something free, try Avast. The only caveat is that you will need to manually update the program; the free version doesn’t do auto updates.

The free version of avast now gives you a choice of automatic or manual program updates. Automatic is the default, so if you want manual just go into the software and enable it.

35803-avast-2

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You have to remember that no AV product will protect against the worst problem, the operator. Your habits have a large affect on your security.

That said, WD is better than nothing. Many people have NO IDEA what PC security is or what it entails. Because of this MS has made an attempt to add some AV/AM protection to their OS. Perhaps this is not the best available, but it is better than having nothing to those people. I used MSE, and then WD for several years in my security protection plan, and never had an infection. Last year I switched to first AVG AV free, then a 3 license paid version of AVG AV 2013 Pro. 2 days ago I reactivated my 3 licenses for $46 and upgraded to the new AVG AV 2104 Pro. AVG will attempt to sell the suite, just as many other do. I have found for my needs just the AV/AM component is sufficient. But like others I also have Malwarebytes Anti-Malware Pro installed and running in real time.

The other thing you will notice is that if you do install a different AV/AM app (other than Malewarebytes) WD in all likelyhood will be disabled automatically. It is not a good idea to run 2 different AV apps in real time. They will conflict with each other and give many false positives that will at the least drive you crazy.

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I’ve been running with WD since Windows 7 when it was called MSE. I have never been infected and feel no need to replace it. I am careful about my online activities though. I do periodically scan my system with a varying mix of other free tools – Malwarebytes free, Trend Micro Housecall Free Online Scan[/url], Bitdefender Free Online Virus Scan, Kaspersky Free virus scan, Eset free virus scan[/url]. There are others that you can find too. As Rui stated, a multi-layer defense system is important. Informed and safe browsing habits are probably more important than any one software component.

Joe

--Joe

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I’ve been running with WD since Windows 7 when it was called MSE. I have never been infected and feel no need to replace it. I am careful about my online activities though. I do periodically scan my system with a varying mix of other free tools – Malwarebytes free, Trend Micro Housecall Free Online Scan[/url], Bitdefender Free Online Virus Scan, Kaspersky Free virus scan, Eset free virus scan[/url]. There are others that you can find too. As Rui stated, a multi-layer defense system is important. Informed and safe browsing habits are probably more important than any one software component.

Joe

I agree with Joe, although I run two security apps (and have UAC activated) I never got an infection and my security apps never caught malware, so online habits are very important (as are other habits, like opening weird and unexpected email attachments, no matter how “enticing” they may look).
I still prefer to play safe, though, the cost of my apps is small enough and they are light on resources.

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Rui & Joe,

+1

:cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Hi Guys

Thanks for the valuable information. I have now activated UAC and will make use of good AV program

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Just wanted to add that we can get infected from legitimate websites. Security failures are rampant these days, so even places that would seem safe can bring unwanted problems. That’s why I have my safeguards in place :).

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Just wanted to add that we can get infected from legitimate websites. Security failures are rampant these days, so even places that would seem safe can bring unwanted problems. That’s why I have my safeguards in place :).

..and that’s why I pay for my A/V protection, rather than use the free stuff. I figure that if I’m paying them, they’ll try harder to make sure it is a good product.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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..and that’s why I pay for my A/V protection, rather than use the free stuff. I figure that if I’m paying them, they’ll try harder to make sure it is a good product.

Or do it just because paying for a good product, when the price is right, is a way to reward those who do good work from which we benefit and we are helping to ensure that work can continue.

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You guys are 100% correct. The guys who have developed the AV programs need to be rewarded. I will definitely buys one of the recommended AV programs. Can I still use Windows Defender or will it conflict with the others?

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You guys are 100% correct. The guys who have developed the AV programs need to be rewarded. I will definitely buys one of the recommended AV programs. Can I still use Windows Defender or will it conflict with the others?

Emsisoft AntiMalware could run alongside MSE (with each excluding each other from monitoring), but I am not sure what is the situation with Defender. I say Defender really wouldn’t be needed, though.

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. . . Can I still use Windows Defender or will it conflict with the others?

As said before WD will be turned off when you install any other AV program.

This thread was mostly between and among very knowledgeable and experienced people. What is my typical customer to do with that information? They will be confused.

My every day experience is very different. It comes from over ten years of supporting 4,000+ (conservatively estimated) home users. The vast majority of them are in their own words “computer illiterate”.

[*]The main menace currently are NOT classical viruses anymore, it’s those pesky PuPs.
I have yet to find a classic AV program that detects and removes this kind of junk.

[*]My “average” customer gets mostly confused by anything any classic AV has ever said to them. The language is too technical for them.

[*]Microsoft Security Essentials and Windows Defender speak simple straight English only. I install MSE (or activate WD respectively) on ALL my customers computer since early September 2009 and have had no complaints at all – so far, knock on wood.

[*]The currently much hyped Crypto Locker virus can easily be thwarted with nothing but safe computing habits. For more background you may want to read this.

[*]Malwarebytes (MB) (for my home customers) and JRT (for my use) are the only scanners I know of that target PuPs and safely remove them. I’d love to learn of other ones in replies.

[*]My customers do well with MSE (or WD) and if they want to do more I install MB for them but without the trial of the resident module which would lead to additional cost when the trial period ends.

My experience (and I know well yours is different!) shows that safe computing habits combined with MSE (or WD) and eventually MB for an demand scans work very well even for the most “illiterate” of my customers.

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My experience (and I know well yours is different!) shows that safe computing habits combined with MSE (or WD) and eventually MB for an demand scans work very well even for the most “illiterate” of my customers.

Exactly my thoughts also.

Having tested every Free version anti-vir suite and such there is nothing lighter than MSE or Defender in 8.1 but you must follow safe computing habits. I question my repairs and if I think they are just not safe ppl I recommend a paid version of something.

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Malwarebytes (MB) (for my home customers) and JRT (for my use) are the only scanners I know of that target PuPs and safely remove them. I’d love to learn of other ones in replies.

The free version of avast scans for PUPS, but the default is to have that function disabled. You have to go into the software and enable it.

35802-avast-1

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You can use Windows Defender to do scans, but you can’t leave it in automatic monitoring mode. Only one A/V program at a time can be set for automatic monitoring.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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Hi Rui

How do I Disable Windows Defender so that I can run Emsisoft Antimalware? I have Avast free version which i’m going to uninstall as I cannot run. I suspect its conflicting with Defender. I wish to buy Emsisoft as I wish to have good protection. I am also weary of going on to any of the Websites

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Hi Rui

How do I Disable Windows Defender so that I can run Emsisoft Antimalware? I have Avast free version which i’m going to uninstall as I cannot run. I suspect its conflicting with Defender. I wish to buy Emsisoft as I wish to have good protection. I am also weary of going on to any of the Websites

Emsisoft AntiMalware will disable it, don’t worry about it.

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You must sign in with an administrator account to turn Windows Defender on or off.
1. Tap or click to open Windows Defender.
2. On the Settings tab, choose Administrator. Select the Turn on this app check box, and then tap or click Save changes.
Administrator permission required You might be asked for an admin password or to confirm your choice.

From the help.

BTW, can someone say why Windows Defender is considered inferior to other AVs pleas? I use it and have had no problems with it, unlike AVG and Sophos, both of which annoyed me and seemed to become resource hogs. It would be useful to have facts rather than opinion (which is all my comment about liking it is!).

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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You must sign in with an administrator account to turn Windows Defender on or off.
1. Tap or click to open Windows Defender.
2. On the Settings tab, choose Administrator. Select the Turn on this app check box, and then tap or click Save changes.
Administrator permission required You might be asked for an admin password or to confirm your choice.

From the help.

BTW, can someone say why Windows Defender is considered inferior to other AVs pleas? I use it and have had no problems with it, unlike AVG and Sophos, both of which annoyed me and seemed to become resource hogs. It would be useful to have facts rather than opinion (which is all my comment about liking it is!).

It’s detection rate is bad compared to the most competitors. Check any comparative and you will see it fares bad compared to others. Plus, even Microsoft admits their product is basic and will probably be at the bottom of the tests:

http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//156930-Microsoft-senior-program-manager-admits-MSE-will-always-be-quot-at-the-bottom-quot-of-comparatives

Another thread where that was discussed:
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//157035-PC-Security

I don’t agree with your view about MSE being low on resources. On my 6GB desktop, it was a constant source of problems. I am quite happy I dumped it.

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It’s detection rate is bad compared to the most competitors. Check any comparative and you will see it fares bad compared to others. Plus, even Microsoft admits their product is basic and will probably be at the bottom of the tests:

http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//156930-Microsoft-senior-program-manager-admits-MSE-will-always-be-quot-at-the-bottom-quot-of-comparatives

Another thread where that was discussed:
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//157035-PC-Security

I was under the impression that the quote was actually a misquote by PCPro and MS didn’t actually say what was implied. Perhaps it was the same words, but not necessarily in the same order (quote adapted from Eric Morecambe).:lol:

I don’t agree with your view about MSE being low on resources. On my 6GB desktop, it was a constant source of problems. I am quite happy I dumped it.

A classic case of YMMV! I will look at the comparatives again. Let no one say I’m hidebound. 😉

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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I was under the impression that the quote was actually a misquote by PCPro and MS didn’t actually say what was implied. Perhaps it was the same words, but not necessarily in the same order (quote adapted from Eric Morecambe).:lol:

A classic case of YMMV! I will look at the comparatives again. Let no one say I’m hidebound. 😉

It seems they actually said it, from the original link I posted. That was my impression, at least.
Anyway, my own opinion on MSE is that it fails too much. You can find users here who were infected while using MSE and if you want to be picky, MSE wouldn’t protected against something like CryptoLocker. If there are AVs that do, while use one that fails in such cases?

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Hi Guys

Thanks for the info, much appreciated

Howard

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Rui, can you tell me which one protects against CryptoLocker please. I looked at the comparison sites, and my conclusion was that the results are all over the shop! E.g. some seemed to be first in one or two, but well down the list in others, so personal recommendation is appreciated.

I see you support SL Benfica. All I can say is glory hunter :o: My team is the strongest in the Premier League; they’re supporting all the others! :flee:

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Rui, can you tell me which one protects against CryptoLocker please. I looked at the comparison sites, and my conclusion was that the results are all over the shop! E.g. some seemed to be first in one or two, but well down the list in others, so personal recommendation is appreciated.

I see you support SL Benfica. All I can say is glory hunter :o: My team is the strongest in the Premier League; they’re supporting all the others! :flee:

Emsisoft AntiMalware does, it would warn you as soon as CryptoLocker tried to run, as it would detect it through it’s behavioral detection feature.

Choosing an AV is always a personal choice. What I can tell you is that I chose EAM because it features two independent detection engines, doesn’t work using lists of known malware alone and it doesn’t affect my system in a negative way, performance wise. As probably read it, I use it together with Online Armor, also from Emsisoft, but I would gladly use EAM alone, if I had to choose a single AV product.

Yes, I am a Benfica supporter, got it from my dad :). I confess I didn’t understand who you support. Is it Man United?

P.S.: No matter how good, no AV can protect you from everything. That’s why I try to have a very good AV and run it with other security apps – Online Armor, in this case, which is another very good app in its category.

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Emsisoft AntiMalware does, it would warn you as soon as CryptoLocker tried to run, as it would detect it through it’s behavioral detection feature.

Choosing an AV is always a personal choice. What I can tell you is that I chose EAM because it features two independent detection engines, doesn’t work using lists of known malware alone and it doesn’t affect my system in a negative way, performance wise. As you probably read, I use it together with Online Armor, also from Emsisoft, but I would gladly use EAM alone, if I had to choose a single AV product.

Yes, I am a Benfica supporter, got it from my dad :). I confess I didn’t understand who you support. Is it Man United?

P.S.: No matter how good, no AV can protect you from everything. That’s why I try to have a very good AV and run it with other security apps – Online Armor, in this case, which is another very good app in its category.

Thanks Rui, a personal recommendation is always better than comparison sites and vendor adverts (it’s the best thing since….).

Man U! Go wash your mouth out! My team were bottom of the league when I wrote (supporting all the others) but are now 19th after a great win over the Hammers. Go you Eagles!! I’ve supported them since 1966 – through thick and thin. Mainly thin.

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Thanks Rui, a personal recommendation is always better than comparison sites and vendor adverts (it’s the best thing since….).

Man U! Go wash your mouth out! My team were bottom of the league when I wrote (supporting all the others) but are now 19th after a great win over the Hammers. Go you Eagles!! I’ve supported them since 1966 – through thick and thin. Mainly thin.

The struggles of newly promoted teams shows how difficult the Premier League is particularly when going up against the big money clubs.

Joe

--Joe

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The struggles of newly promoted teams shows how difficult the Premier League is particularly when going up against the big money clubs.

Joe

You are right, Joe, it’s very hard for smaller teams to compete with pocket full, big name ones.

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Sorry about that, sometimes it’s hard to understand you native speakers :). Here is wishing your Crystal Palace improves it’s current standing ;).

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I must remember that you’re not a native English speaker – as your English on the forum is better than some of us native speakers!

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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I must remember that you’re not a native English speaker – as your English on the forum is better than some of us native speakers!

:).

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I must remember that you’re not a native English speaker – as your English on the forum is better than some of us native speakers!

Rui’s English is perfect. I continually find it hard to believe that he didn’t grow up in an English-speaking country.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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Rui’s English is perfect. I continually find it hard to believe that he didn’t grow up in an English-speaking country.

You guys are too kind, but I thank you for your kindness :).

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Don’t make me move this thread to scuttlebutt! 😆 :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Don’t make me move this thread to scuttlebutt! 😆 :cheers:

We are indeed misbehaving. Sorry about that, Mr. Moderator :p :rolleyes: :blush::;):.

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As has been said before no anti malware program can guarantee complete protection without some intelligent help from the user. It often surprises me that people will usually carefully look both ways before crossing a busy road but will not check what others think of a program before installing it.

I only have Windows Defender running on my Windows 8.1 and occasionally run Malwarebytes, I do have a S/W and H/W firewall; I keep UAC at the next to highest level(default) and run as a standard user except when first setting up a system. I have not so far run into any problems.

I think good habits can mitigate the risks of getting hit by malware even if they cannot eliminate them.

A few other things I do that help reduce the risks. Always use different strong passwords on different websites/systems particularly webmail sites such as yahoo/gmail/hotmail. I use “Keepass” to keep track of them. I run “Ghostery” in Firefox and Chrome to block sites that tag and allow uncontrolled advertising and use “NoScript” in Firefox to only allow JavaScript on sites that I have authorised.

I also check on any software, that I am not familiar with, to see what other think of it before installing it and also only get it from the author’s website or a well respected download site like download.cnet.com or occasionally tucows.com.

I never run software from attachments on emails and am vigilant when opening emails from unknown sources or unexpected styled emails from known sources.

I have no doubt there are many other little things that I do to prevent getting attacked but I have been using AV software since Dr. Solomon first created it in the early 80’s and despite having found a few viruses over the years I have never been caught out. Luck? Probably but common sense mostly.

Don’t get paranoid but do look both ways when crossing the road, even a quiet one.

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Eike:

I agree with you about MSE being simple straight English. In fact, it is the easiest protection anyone can have — they don’t have to do anything once it is installed and set up.

That is a very strong point in MSE’s favor.

I’m not so enthusiastic about Windows Defender — I caught some spyware while depending on Windows Defender.

Jim

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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I’ve been using MSE on my XP computer for several years and WD on my Win8 machine for several months. Both computers remain uninfected and neither shows any hit on performance.

I was very unhappy with both Norton and Macaffee in the past. Even the free Avast program was problematic.

Bill

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I would like to know whether Windows Defender is sufficient protection for Viruses, Spyware & Malware. If not, can anyone recommend what other software I should be using

Defender is based on MSE and several leading independent testing organisations have found it not very good at malware detection / prevention. However, if you use exclusively an IE browser with smartscreen enabled then your protection will be much higher, and that’s a combination these organisations do not generally test for.

In principle I don’t think it is a good idea to fully rely on MS to protect your system, rather I take on an independent specialist company whose survival depends on doing a good job for you. I’ve used all the main and many obscure AV, HIPS, firewall combinations over the years and I reached the point where I really do not want to worry or think daily about my settings, I want them largely taken care of and only alert me when their is a genuine problem, also not to slow my machine and browsing down to a crawl.

I’ve tested lots of them for efffectiveness and performance as well as reviewing the test organisations. It depends upon your equipment, set up, where you use your equipment etc, but generally I would highly recommend Bitdefender AV if you are mostly in your own home or office, or if on a laptop then add the Bitdefender firewall via their Suite. It’s the only software which has no impact in my tests apart from Webroot which is equally light on resources in real world computer use. It really is an “install and forget” product. If and when you want or need to delve deeper the GUI can be slightly confusing, but BD keeps on coming out tops in many well known AV tests, so just leave it alone to do its thing and protect you, stop tinkering around!

I actually equally recommend Webroot, it’s superb, but only for US and UK based folk who don’t mind the risk that US AV products are a scouring tool for the NSA / GCHQ – I don’t accuse Webroot or others of any such intentions, I may be slightly paranoid, but personally I prefer to use security tools built in Europe where data protection laws are far higher. Yes, some of you will say that Windows has an NSA backdoor anyway, but hey, I also want to support and promote excellent European products whilst respecting my US friends :rolleyes:

Back to Defender, I would then disable real time protection and just set it for a nightly or weekly scan as a second line of defence. I also do occasional scans with Hitman Pro and Malwarebytes but that’s just paranoid me. :B):

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I would highly recommend Bitdefender

hmm in my shop I have used that for some time the Bitdefender Rescue CD for an offline scan of infected PC, why is it I have to turn around and use several other things to get rid of garbage including installing MSE afterwards which finds many things? Nope didn’t think you would know.

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There are many examples of “PC Professionals” that successfully use MSE and/or WD on their various PCs to provide a portion of their multi-layered security regime. There is NO AV/AM app that catches everything, and most of those same experts advise to use a multi-layered approach with a good AV/AM app, perhaps with another AM app in manual scanning capacities or running in real time, and good S/W and H/W firewalls. These combined with stifling the impulses of the operator to click everything and go where “no man has gone before” (to the bad sites) will keep most PCs very safe.

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@veegertx: no offline scan will pick up every piece of malware that might load up during a Windows boot, some malware loads dynamically or from a Windows’ boot-specific trigger.

The main priority of an offline scanner should be to access and remove malware that blocks Windows from booting – then load Windows and run other scans to clear up any residuals.

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That’s very good to know.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 8.1 running in a VM

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