[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

PKCano wrote:

Woody developed the DEFCON for the very reason of delaying updating to prevent the impact of defective patches on the techie and non-techie alike. And, let’s face it, Microsoft has released quite a few troublesome updates in the last few years since they started rolling the fixes and security measures into one big glob.

For individual users, the DEFCON system can’t hold a candle to a reliable, recent drive image from a sensibly partitioned system.  If need be, I can restore my OS partition in ~6 minutes.  On the other hand, I have yet to have a patch/upgrade pooch my system.  I’m an early adopter with nothing to report; my stuff still runs just fine.  I’m the canary in the coal mine who’s still singing.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

Barry wrote:

I had such high hopes for this site after it merged with WS but things like this really turn me off. I would just like to see a little more tolerance and a few less insults for people who don’t necessarily agree with Woody’s approach and there are a lot of us.

I concur.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

2 users thanked author for this post.

b,

Rick Corbett

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

woody wrote:

That doesn’t alter my opinion that anyone who’s installing 1903 right now has been sold a bill of goods.

I installed it as soon as it was made available by Microsoft, but I didn’t buy it, it was free.  I have had absolutely no troubles whatsoever with the upgrade; everything is solid, nothing broke, Windows still does what I want it to do.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

1 user thanked author for this post.

b

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

Noel Carboni wrote:

No one asked that their system be taken over.

But we all did, when we started using the OS. I hate to keep sounding like a looped mp3, but “This agreement describes your rights and the conditions upon which you may use the Windows software. You should review the entire agreement, including any supplemental license terms that accompany the software and any linked terms, because all of the terms are important and together create this agreement that applies to you.
By accepting this agreement or using the software, you agree to all of these terms, and consent to the transmission of certain information during activation and during your use of the software as per the privacy statement described in Section 3. If you do not accept and comply with these terms, you may not use the software or its features. You may contact the device manufacturer or installer, or your retailer if you purchased the software directly, to determine its return policy and return the software or device for a refund or credit under that policy. You must comply with that policy, which might require you to return the software with the entire device on which the software is installed for a refund or credit, if any.”

“Updates. The software periodically checks for system and app updates, and downloads and installs them for you. You may obtain updates only from Microsoft or authorized sources, and Microsoft may need to update your system to provide you with those updates. By accepting this agreement, you agree to receive these types of automatic updates without any additional notice.”

To read the entire agreement and the terms to which we have all agreed, click All settings > System > About > Read the Microsoft Software License Terms.

Is Microsoft going to have a change of heart, or change their business model? Not likely.

“Productivity and Business Processes reported revenue of $11 billion, showing 14% growth on-year. Both the enterprise and personal versions of Microsoft’s signature software suite had good news to share. Office 365 Commercial posted 31% revenue growth, and Office 365 Consumer reported having 34.8 million subscribers. This division also includes professional social media network LinkedIn, which saw revenue grow 25%.

In addition to the quarterly details, Microsoft also reported its results for the full 2019 fiscal year ending June 30. Revenue increased 14% to $125.8 billion. Net income was $39.2 billion on earnings of $5.06 per share, up 137% and 138%, respectively.

The overall performance shows Microsoft continuing to move ahead with the cloud-focused vision that CEO Satya Nadella implemented when he took the helm back in 2014. Its fourth-quarter report back in 2018 had similar successes for Azure and Office 365, and for as long as the critical divisions and brands continue to post ever-bigger numbers, it’s safe to assume that Microsoft will be staying the course.”

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

2 users thanked author for this post.

Lugh,

joep517

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

Alex5723 wrote:

I really was wondering about ‘Offline for two days’. Don’t you have a smartphone/tablet that you could tether to your PC for Internet access ? Are there no neighbors with free wi-fi connections ?

Indeed, I can (and do) use my phone as a WiFi hotspot; works quite well.  The topic title is only in reference to my Xfinity broadband connection.

I don’t use open WiFi connections, only secured, and I’m not going to bother my neighbors for their WiFi passwords.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

2 users thanked author for this post.

Alex5723,

Bluetrix

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

Good list, but for me, all those items are already taken care of via Task Scheduler while I sleep, so I’m always ready for an update/upgrade.

I don’t use System Restore and have it disabled.  I much prefer restoring a drive image, because I’m absolutely sure of what I’m getting in that restoration.  My system is split into multiple partitions/logical drives, and a restoration of any one partition (like my OS) takes ~6 minutes at most.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

“1. Windows will grab the focus with some message that I don’t realize until it’s too late.”

I have never had that experience.  I have my “active hours” set for 6:00 AM to 12:00 AM and while Windows Update may download a patch(s) in the background, it never grabs focus.  I never power off, just sign out, so any restart for an update will take place while I’m asleep, and I’m undisturbed by it.

“2. Windows will not see that uploading a video to a file sharing site it not active use of a system and thus will reboot right as I’m trying to upload a video (can you tell I hit this tonight?)”

Same as above.  I’ve never experienced any interruption to my daily activities during my active hours due to Windows Update.

As for 3 – 5, I haven’t had any updates pooch my system, so I haven’t had to uninstall any updates.  But if that were to happen, I would restore my most recent OS drive image instead, and that only takes ~6 minutes.

My Dell Latitude E5420 was built in 2011.  The motherboard and CPU in my daily driver desktop and my NAS are 2013 vintage, ancient in tech years.  On the other hand, I bought my son an Alienware gaming rig earlier this year (Windows 10 Pro), and he doesn’t have any issues with Windows Update, either; never had an online multi-player game interrupted.

The only issue I might have anywhere close to those you listed come up because I dual boot, and on occasion, when I’m wanting to reboot to the other side, when I click on Start, I’ll get the option “Upgrade and shutdown” or “Upgrade and restart”.  But even if that comes up, I’m obviously not actively engaged in any editing, uploading or downloading when I’m ready to boot to the other side.  Windows sees it as a shutdown or a restart, which it is.

I know other folks have these issues, and I’m not trying to downplay their issues.  I’m just saying that I don’t.  Part of the reason may be that I don’t have a standard installation of Windows, but I don’t know that to be the case.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

3 users thanked author for this post.

Lugh,

RockE,

joep517

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

Yesterday, the Deployment Image Servicing and Management tool was failing on the B side of my dual boot. The error code it was throwing was dot Net 3.5 related. I did a repair/reinstall to no avail, and decided to wait it out. After all, nothing else was affected, Windows was operating normally.

This morning I rebooted to the B side and checked for Updates. I got KB4506991 installed (Cumulative Update for .NET Framework 3.5 and 4.8 for Windows 10 Version 1903), then tried dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth, and it completed successfully.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

rc primak wrote:

In order to use the Office 365 subscription, you need to log in using a Microsoft Account.

I find this not to be the case.  I use Office 365, and I never log in using a Microsoft Account.

Perhaps you are referring to OneDrive, which does require a Microsoft Account login online, but that still doesn’t require logging in on my PC with a Microsoft Account.  I use local Standard user accounts exclusively.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

1 user thanked author for this post.

rc primak

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

I’m not saying that people are not having issues with patches, they are.  I’m saying that I don’t, because I don’t.  By that same token, I’m not the canary in the mine, because I have nothing to report about bad patches.

I’ve been keeping current drive images since the late ’90’s, so now I’m pretty much fearless about updates, etc.  We had a house fire in January, 2011 and I lost two mid-tower PC’s.  But my drive images were safe, so I only lost the hardware.  My oldest image is no more than a week old.  My data is multiply duplicated as well as backed up in the cloud.

I also don’t run an OEM type Windows installation, mine is quite customized and tweaked.  I’m currently running three SSD’s and three HDD’s with stuff spread out over twenty partitions/logical drives, not counting the EFI partition.  My installation is fairly bulletproof to start with.

All of that notwithstanding, the title of this topic is “Microsoft surreptitiously adds telemetry functionality to July 2019 Win7 Security-only patch.”  What I am saying is that Microsoft has said from the git-go that they are going to do things their way, and if we don’t like that, we can uninstall their software and quit using it.  We have been warned.

Microsoft decided not to appeal the $10,000 judgement in California because it would have cost them more than that to take it to appeal.  And what is $10,000 to a company whose profit is measured in billions?  As I said before, they have a business model, and they are going to follow it.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

• This reply was modified 1 week, 2 days ago by
  
   bbearren.

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

I know there are members here who administer business networks, some with some finicky but necessary business software, and their burden is much different than mine.  I just have a home network, and I tinker with Windows a lot.

Microsoft alone owns Windows, all versions/iterations.  The rest of us have a license to use the software on our hardware.  None of us own Windows in any version/iteration.  Read the EULA.  That is the licensing agreement to which you agreed when you first booted your PC/Laptop/Server/DIY hardware.  In the EULA, Microsoft has reserved the right to make changes at any time for any reason.

There is an out, spelled out clearly by Microsoft, if you don’t like the changes.  Uninstall their software.  As for telemetry, I use O&O ShutUp10 to stop some, not all, of the telemetry.  I want MS to know how Windows 10 Pro interacts with my system/software setup, so that the next update/upgrade will just work.

I don’t turn off automatic updates, I don’t read lists of “good/bad” updates.  If an update pooches one of my machines, I have drive images less than a week old to get right back to where I was before the update.  But I still don’t stop automatic updates; I’ve got an insurance policy in my drive images.  My OS partition is 100GB, and I can completely restore it in ~6 minutes.

On Tuesdays I click “Check for updates”.  I used a MCT thumb drive to upgrade everything but my NAS to 1903 a while back, and I waited for MS to push it to my NAS.  This past Tuesday, they did, and I clicked “Download and install”.  About half an hour later, it was running 1903 without a peep.  It’s also running RAID 10 with four 3TB HDDs.  It’s all good.

Microsoft is going to pursue their business model.  The only available option for any of us is to uninstall MS software and migrate to something else.  I’m OK with Windows 10 1903.  I’m OK with automatic updates.

FWIW, no Windows update has ever pooched any of my machines.  On the other hand, I’ve pooched them myself countless times.  That’s why I rely on automatic drive imaging primarily, to protect me from myself.

But for someone to say that Microsoft “doesn’t have the right to …”; yes, they do.  They’ve already told you about it, and you’ve already agreed to it.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

1 user thanked author for this post.

RockE

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

FWIW, I have a few commandlets ready to use when needed.

A couple of years ago, in notepad, I typed

dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth

and then saved it as “Restore Health.cmd” on my Desktop.  I can right-click it and select “Run as administrator” and it opens a Command Prompt, runs to completion, then exits.

In the example in my illegible screen shot up above, I right-clicked, selected “Edit”, copied the text, pasted it into the already-open Command Prompt, and hit Enter.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

The image in my previous post isn’t very legible.  I ran sfc /scannow and got the “can’t fix ’em” result.  I then ran dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth and let it complete.  I never use the “/checkhealth” or “/scanhealth” switches.  The “/restorehealth” switch does the whole ball of wax in one fell swoop.

I ran sfc /scannow again, and it completed successfully, “found some corrupted files and fixed ’em”.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

4 users thanked author for this post.

cmptrgy,

Rod Sparks,

Fred,

Lugh

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

It still works.  Just follow the rules of troubleshooting.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

1 user thanked author for this post.

doriel

[bbearrenAskWoody MVP]

Ascaris wrote:

It doesn’t mean anyone really agreed to it. … The EULA is just words, and until it’s tested in court, it’s pretty meaningless.

Yes, in fact it does indeed mean everyone really, literally agreed to it.  And yes, software EULA agreements have indeed been tested in court, and upheld.

“The US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit today ruled (pdf) … “We hold today that a software user is a licensee rather than an owner of a copy where the copyright owner (1) specifies that the user is granted a license; (2) significantly restricts the user’s ability to transfer the software; and (3) imposes notable use restrictions.”

Microsoft Windows EULA fully complies with all three of those criteria.  We’ve been through this before, and it’s still the simple truth of the matter.  This doesn’t mean that Microsoft is going to send U.S. Marshalls to your door, but it does mean that the EULA is a valid contract between you (all of us) and Microsoft.

Windows 10 (warts complaints and all) is running on 700,000,000 devices, and that number continues to grow.  That’s a pretty good indicator that Microsoft is not going to change, but we still have options; uninstall the software and start using another OS.

The point is that when we click on that “Accept” button in order to get the installation of Windows to proceed, we are binding ourselves to the terms of the EULA, like it or not.

Create a fresh drive image before making system changes, in case you need to start over!

"The problem is not the problem. The problem is your attitude about the problem. Savvy?"—Captain Jack Sparrow

"When you're troubleshooting, start with the simple and proceed to the complex."—M.O. Johns

"Experience is what you get when you're looking for something else."—Sir Thomas Robert Deware

1 user thanked author for this post.

Lugh

[Author]

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