Replies

Microsoft is ready for you. What you’ve described is only 1/3 of the process you need to implement if you want Update to go away and not come back. I wish we’d explore this more on this site – it’s too easy to go to extremes on this topic. Either you drink the kool-aid and hand over access to your computer to MS per the EULA, or you dive deep and fully disable update and make it so that it is near impossible for MS to restore it. I wish there were middle ground to facilitate the options offered to us in both XP and W7. Alas, MS doesn’t want to operate in that manner now.

For full disabling and prevention of repair –

First, you have to disable Windows Update Service. The procedure above is adequate.

Second, you have to stop the Windows Update Medic Service. That is a bit harder to do. You can find the procedure to do that on the web – I did. If you don’t stop that service, the medic service will repair Windows Update Service and you’ll be updating before you know it or want it. You have to edit the registry to stop that service. You can’t simply disable it or set it to manual via the Services applet.

Third, and this is the hardest for me, you have to delete the Windows Update folder in your system folder. That folder is owned by ‘Trusted Installer’, not you. You cannot easily remove that folder. I found the procedure to do it, but haven’t implemented it successfully – yet. Funny, you thought you, as administrator, had the highest privileges on your computer. Wrong. Microsoft owns the highest privileges on your computer. Good luck getting them back.

I wish there was a utility to control the update services and associated files. Microsoft won’t give us the ability. Any good code writers out there willing to give it a stab? Have I missed a utility that provides the control I desire? Please let me know what I don’t know.

BTW, my experiment on 1511 on my Lenovo Flex 3 is over. The Flex 3 fails to boot into Windows and my recovery USB failed. I was able to recover all of my files on the C: drive via the emergency Command Prompt C: (glad I remember those DOS commands – xcopy, copy, etc.), and my backups. I really need to learn how to do system and partial-system images for more reliable backups. I didn’t lose anything, and I managed to polish my operating system/file system skills in the process.

I purchased a new Lenovo Flex 5 – 15.6 inch screen this time. It’s an ok machine, but Lenovo screws up almost as often as MS by changing things that just work. It has a backlit keyboard. That doggone thing automatically turns off after 5 seconds. Good luck if you are typing in a poorly lit space, turn on your fancy backlit keyboard, then pause typing for more than 5 seconds – the keyboard goes dark. Then you have to hit a key to reactivate the backlight, then backspace to remove the errant character you may have just typed, and then you can continue what you were doing – until the light goes out again. Why can’t they leave it the way it was on the Flex 3 – when you turn it on it stays on until you turn it off? Again, if anyone knows something about this that I’m missing – be merciful and let me know! Please!

I fired up the new Flex 5 without connecting to the web. Created a local administrator account, and a local standard account. The administrator account has a password and security questions; the standard account does not. This is a personal laptop that only leaves the house on special vacations and never experiences my social security number or any account numbers. I don’t to commerce on this machine. I installed Brave as my browser – I like brave. I installed Office 2003 – no ribbon for me. Installed Everything – no windows search either, as far as I can avoid it. I’m pretty much all the way back in business. I’ve got McAfee antivirus for 30 days free. I’ll remove it at the end of the free period and switch to Microsoft Defender or whatever they call it now. I’m in the habit of updating it manually daily.

In my five years with 1511 on the Lenovo Flex 3 I never updated the operating system and I never used a third party antivirus. No infections. No lost files. No downtime. No unstable windows. No uncertainty about updates or updating. Peace and effective work. It was a successful experiment that I am going to repeat on my new Flex 5.

Ramrod

1 user thanked author for this post.

Laptop Boy

Outside of reading this site, how does an ordinary home user stay aware of all the quirks of modern windows updating? Does Microsoft post notices someplace? Do they use your ms account to push messages?
Inquiring minds want to know.

1 user thanked author for this post.

WildBill

I agree. I might actually return to the flock if MS backed off a little on the update madness and treated me like a valued customer again.

My hardware is getting older. Every time I shop for new hardware I blanch at the thought of buying into the WinX roller coaster. Apple, Linux, Chromebook all seem so much safer – and I’ve never used any of them. MS has me in a bad psychological place. I hope that gives the sales department at MS a clue.

5 users thanked author for this post.

Charlie, lurks about, David F, OscarCP, Cybertooth

Thank you very much for this comprehensive guide.

I am in a slow, unintentional migration away from WinX. I’m taking an ‘ecosystem’ approach to the migration. I figure I can go Apple, Android, or Linux. This guide makes it very clear how to go the Apple way.

My wife has an iPhone 11, an iPad (2019), and an Android tablet. She (and I) are very accustomed word processing in Word – not New Word (2007 and newer), but Classic Word (2003). I’m curious what you might recommend to complete my wife’s migration away from WinX and associated hardware while maintaining our computing customs.

Thanks again,

RamRod

1 user thanked author for this post.

Nathan Parker

No wallet in my case. I’m Office 2003 on WinX 1511. I haven’t given a $ to MS in years. And MS is OK with that. They are getting something else from me and selling it for $. They don’t employ all those programmers and marketers and data center operators for free. They pay them. And where do they get the revenue to pay them? They don’t charge us much for software any longer. So where does their revenue come from?

I don’t really care where they get their revenue. I only care about how they limit the software they give me for free, or for a reasoned (not necessarily reasonable) rental fee, if I don’t yield the information they covet.

The important question to me is, ‘what is my information worth to me?’. Is it worth what I get? How can I judge if MS won’t even disclose what information of mine they collect and sell?

RamRod

Woody, with all due respect, browser hijacking is only an extension of the original issue – OS hijacking. We all agreed to this when we rolled over on WAAS – WinX. What did you expect – that they wouldn’t stop at the OS? They are talking ecosystems here – the software only works as intended if you give them control – ala Microsoft Account or Office 365 subscription. Try making all those WinX apps work with a local account only. Microsoft, Google, etc, all want total control over your computing experience so that they can sell complete usage metrics to the highest bidder. Don’t ask what Microsoft and others are doing to your computer – ask where their revenue is coming from. Follow the $.

Respectfully submitted.

5 users thanked author for this post.

wdburt1, Norio, jburk07, Cybertooth, Mele20

And I preferred it that way. Thanks for your consideration.

I’m happily computing on Windows 10.1 using Office 2003.

Happy Thanksgiving Woody & VIP’s!!!

Or google…

Microsoft spyware

Microsoft telemetry

Microsoft trust

Windows As A Service

Microsoft fatigue

Oxymoron – Windows – Reliable

2 users thanked author for this post.

Kranium, phaolo

Are you saying Win-Ten-Ten could be a dog?

2003 on 1511.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Carol Birl

Update on the experiment – 21 May 2019

I almost blew it. And I blamed Microsoft at first. Later it became clear it was all my fault.

Let me explain.

I’ve been on 1511 since acquiring my Lenovo Flex 3. I made the decision to attempt to frustrate all MS attempts to upgrade my OS. That was the beginning of the experiment.

Observations to date:

1. I don’t update. No security updates, no feature updates.
2. I do update Windows Defender, manually, most everyday.
3. I didn’t do anything to mitigate for spectre or related issues.
4. I stopped and disabled Windows Update.
5. I installed and run SpyBot Antibeacon.
6. I disabled or deleted automated tasks in Task Scheduler aimed at ‘repairing’ or ‘improving’ my update experience, including the Update Assistant v2. No more self-healing scheduled tasks.
7. I deleted the Update Assistant directories on my C: drive.
8. I uninstalled 4023057 – multiple times, until I figured out how to stop installing it.
9. I set my only internet connection to metered.

That last turned out to be my downfall.

I might have done other things, but those are the main steps I took to keep MS from updating my computer.

Last week I saw on this site notice of another round of KB4023057. I dismissed that as that update is no longer a concern of mine – I assumed it couldn’t get to me because it hadn’t got to me in a very long time.

Bad assumption.

I had to take a road trip. On the return we stayed overnight at the Holiday Inn Express of Evanston, Wyoming. A beautiful place if you are curious. I had stayed there before, and WinX remembered that. I was unawares that WinX automatically started up the Wifi connection to the HIX hotel WiFi.

That connection was not metered!!!! I didn’t think to check. I rarely use WiFi other than my own, so I was out of practice. I let my defenses down.

That’s why I can’t really blame MS. It was my fault that I let them in. But in they came.

Despite having Windows Update disabled and stopped, overnight MS found my machine and downloaded an update.

I was terrorized the next morning when I checked my machine to find that it was just finishing updating WinX. I was devastated. And not fully aware of how MS had breached my defenses. I felt violated. And very resolute in my decision to forego all future MS products. To Linux I go.

I didn’t have time that morning to do anything but stew, and think. I knew that I would try to roll back, but feared that I’d be unable. Plus, even rolling back I knew that the restored 1511 wasn’t going to be the same – deflowering does that you know. Again, that violated feeling. It even uninstalled software that MS claims was no longer supported by the updated version. What gall!!! I can see installing your own software, as ghastly as that is, but uninstalling software that isn’t MS crosses a very bright red line in my book.

BTW, I never even checked which version it upgraded me to – WinXI, WinXII, WinXVI, WinXVIII? I really don’t care. When I’m ready to upgrade, I’ll pick what I want and go there. Got anything good for me MS? I’m wondering…

Fast forward a day and I’m home, mentally regrouped, and ready to start my machine and see what MS has wrought. Not much different, but Classic Shell was gone and I had to face the WinX UI in all it’s brilliant glory. Ugh.

Then to rollback. Success!!! And it didn’t take all that long. And Classic Shell was back. On the surface it appears as if my 1511 experience is fully restored. I’ve had a little shakiness – reinstalled Chrome after it complained. And Excel 2003 crashed a couple of times. Now a few days later it all feels relatively stable and back to normal. I did check all of my defenses – Windows Update Service (and related), scheduled tasks, Presence of Update Assistant, etc. – All good. The rollback was not only fast but fairly comprehensive.

I’ll continue this experiment and report back here as the occasion demands.

In the meantime,

1. Make sure that if you are forestalling updates, for any reason, that you check each WiFi connection to assure that you’ve set it to metered.
2. Rest assured, rollback works. But do a drive image just in case.
3. Check your defenses regularly. I was shocked that MS found my machine and started the update process with Windows Update stopped and disabled. Wow.
4. I have had zero negative security events, outside of the malware MS downloaded onto my machine. I know I’m dancing with the devil – two in fact. The first are all the bad guys out there trying to hack my machine. The other are the devils at MS trying to hack my machine. Only one set has a EULA to protect them. Drats!

Let me know if you have questions – I’m sure to have missed something in this report.

RamRod

3 users thanked author for this post.

Elly, Laptop Boy, Lars220

I wish I had kept the reference, so this falls into the category of anecdote – not fact. In any case, I once read that the code in SyncToy formed the basis for the synchronization of files in SkyDrive, nay OneDrive. That made sense to me when I read it. However, it also implies that MS began plotting the path to a cloud based windows way back, per the 1995 Internet Memo by Bill Gates. My theory is that MS was following that path, very logically, when the smartphone craze hit, shortly after or in parallel with the Tablet craze. As usual, they weren’t going to be left out or behind. So the Surface line was conceived and implemented. And at the same time someone, not Gates I hope, had the bright idea to merge the user experience between the smartphone interface and the traditional XP/Vista/7 interface – a big merge if you will. That spawned Win8. How frustrating it must’ve been for MS to not be able to gain a foothold in the smartphone market. I believe that frustration manifested itself in the interface goulash known first as Win8, then Win8.1, and finally WinX. They couldn’t help themselves by returning to a non-bifurcated UI.

In the background of it all though was the cloud. And with that a centrally managed OS. One of the big knocks on MS, compared to Apple, was that MS had to test their new software on an almost infinite number of platform combinations – combos of PC’s, video cards, processors, memory configurations, buses, etc., while Apple maintained strict control on the number of hardware combinations it supported. MS became hugely jealous of that, IMHO, and figured out that the internet, the Cloud, was the solution to that problem. WinX was the outcome.

I don’t know – anybody got a better theory? I lived through it and still can’t believe the mess MS has made of their UI. I still won’t understand why they don’t offer us little guys choices in UI and connectivity. The only connectivity choice we have is between the local account and the MS account. Or no connectivity at all.

Musings of a frustrated Windows user.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Elly

By not upgrading I lowered their earnings by exactly $0.00. The point is that Microsoft is no longer attached to consumers/users like me. I’m on my own. Abandoned.

2 users thanked author for this post.

Charlie, rc primak

Does uninstalling 4023057 remove the Update Assistant and associated directory as well as the tasks in task scheduler? If not it’s not really uninstalled is it?