Hello. Can I bother somebody here with my strange peculiar problem ? I use an Acer M1610 that has given stellar service in the last 5 years. Now, it is reluctant to boot. It goes through the BIOS thing, the 5 dots go around 3 times then stops. When I kill the machine, ON switch for 5 seconds, I can see the lock screen flash on the monitor.
Solution : I open up the case, remove anything at all, be it the graphic card, a RAM stick, the power and data to the HD then reconnect it and it will boot to completion. Strange, is it not ? I found out that if I killed the power bar to kill it, when I reapplied power it would boot, not very recommended as a procedure but it worked. Lately, I have hibernated the machine and that also is fine, a touch of the PW will bring it out of hibernation.
I have changed all that I could think of in the BIOS and also used the BIOS default settings, NOGO. I have a new HD in it, 4 new RAM sticks and I swapped three graphic cards so far, still NOGO. It runs W-8.1 fine when it will boot.
I am at a loss for a solution, can anybody light my candle ? All best wishes. Jean.
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To boot or not to boot?
Home » Forums » AskWoody support » PC hardware » Questions: How to troubleshoot hardware problems » To boot or not to boot?
- This topic has 19 replies, 7 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 3 months ago.
AuthorTopicWShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 21, 2015 at 9:20 am #498733Viewing 10 reply threadsAuthorReplies-
Paul T
AskWoody MVP -
WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 21, 2015 at 12:23 pm #1491623Many thanks, Paul, for your time. I respect your knowledge but I doubt that your two solutions would cure this aggravation. I have a feeling that there is a step somewhere that is missing as it will more or less boot to the lock screen but stops there. I can see the lock screen flash on momentarily when I “kill” the machine, so it booted to this point. What I will try next and obviously will report back to you, is the graphic card. I will remove it an boot to the on-board video. I think that this card, a 16x, is kept live when on hibernation thus the problem is nonextant. I will not get a fine screen resolution but what the heck, I can get it going again, I hope.
All best wishes. Jean.
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WSCLiNT
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 21, 2015 at 12:41 pm #1491652Have a look at some of these:
Computer Repair with Diagnostic Flowcharts Third Edition – PDF Now Available39512-Boot-failure-troubleshooter
Some of the above charts in the link look very useful.
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WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 21, 2015 at 1:22 pm #1491666Thanks, Clint, I followed all the pertinent flow-charts and ended up always at a dead-end. But very interesting, thanks.
Paul, this is plumb crazy. I got a revised driver for this graphic card from the ATI site, installed it and voilร , no reboot after the install. Now the crazy part : I opened up the case and pulled the logic and power cables from the D: optical device and tried booting, Nada ! I reconnected both cables and voilร , it boots. Crazy enough for you ? I just can not make any rime or reason to this strange behaviour. No cure as yet but I have found the solution in hibernation. I should stop while I am ahead ? All best wishes. Jean.
Paul T
AskWoody MVPFebruary 21, 2015 at 2:00 pm #1491669WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 22, 2015 at 2:35 pm #1491808Hello, Paul. Can I bring in another indication and confuse you as much as I am confused ? OK, here : when the machine will not boot past the locked screen as noted above, ( it is not seen, just a flash ), if I then use a USB key with the proper start items, it does start as required and normal. Does this help you understand where the bone would be ? If it boots this way the BIOS ought to be properly initialized, no ?
I certainly hope that you are not loosing any sleep over this, it is peculiar and I can work around. I am still curious as to why it behaves this way.
All best wishes. Jean.Paul T
AskWoody MVP-
WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 24, 2015 at 10:13 am #1492182Paul, greets.
Yes, yes and yes. I have a feeling that this is due to the graphic card as it stops on it when first accessed by the boot process, it is ready to show the lock-screen but stops there. Go search.
I any other boot mode, ie : in hibernation or in a full power OFF. it must keep that card alive and then process along the booting sequence, a non-educated guess here, just looking at what goes on.
This machine is on W-8.1, I will try to go to 9926 and see if this repeats, I never saw this in W-7 or prior OSes.
You are relieved of any participation in this subject, it is now between me and that Acer.
All best wishes. Jean
MrJimPhelps
AskWoody MVPFebruary 24, 2015 at 11:33 am #1492187Jean:
I had a computer once which had serious issues — it was super slow, and speedfan showed that it was running super hot. Turned out to be a bad video card. When I got rid of the bad video card, the problem was solved.
Jim
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server-
WShandcuff36
AskWoody Lounger
WSspottyginger
AskWoody Lounger-
WShandcuff36
AskWoody Lounger
WSChris Cooper
AskWoody LoungerFebruary 28, 2015 at 3:13 am #1492859Hi,
Although this does sound like a hardware problem, have you considered that it could be an OS boot fault?
At the start of the thread you said that it pauses โafter the five dots go around three timesโ โ so Iโm assuming we are talking Windows8 or 8.1. If that is the case, Iโve seen quite a few broken booted Win8 Acers over the last few months. The start-up repair options usually fail to correct the boot fault, even if you attempt it several times, but a total re-install (rather than a non-destructive reset) invariably cures the problem completely.
Hereโs one easy hardware test to try before you consider going down the onerous re-install trail.
Download Linux Mint17 live demo and burn it to an iso DVD.
Set the Acer BIOS boot order to boot the DVD drive before the HD.
Shut the system down completely and cold boot from the Linux live demo disk.
The Linux live disk demo runs totally in RAM so if the Linux desktop finally appears youโve almost certainly ruled out a RAM fault.
If the Linux demo works ok then thatโs a good indication that the graphics card and everything else, other than the HD, is working ok โ Out of the box Linux uses generic drivers that, although not as finely tuned as specific drivers, generally work well enough to prove the hardware is OK.Just make sure you donโt click the Install icon on the Linux demo desktop or you could find, after a few more key stroke options, that you are about to replace Windows with Linux on your HD!
Although that would be no bad thing as youโre using Win8.http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2713 scroll down the page to see the list of download mirrors – get the 32bit version to avoid hardware complications. The Mint MATE desktop version is probably easier to get on with than the Cinnamon desktop version if you are new to Linux.
Canadian download link for the Linux Mint 17.1 MATE iso:
http://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/linuxmint//stable/17.1/linuxmint-17.1-mate-32bit.isoHope this may help to sort the wood from the trees.
Cheers, Chris
P.S. If you need a simple iso burner, BurnCDCC is brilliant (wait for the Save box to appear):
http://www.softpedia.com/dyn-postdownload.php/41b5ce5b512ecfdfbbaa91d30c813acf/54f187a7/ae23/0/1-
WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerMarch 2, 2015 at 2:13 pm #1493260Hello again, Chris.
A most heartfelt thankyou from Montreal. I did as you suggested and all is in oil. This Mint is quite nice but there is an education involved. I did not click on anything not familiar and then found the “Quit” button. It ran perfectly ! It even gave me my high resolution of 1920 x 1080. The trees are still standing though. Even if it ran as expected, all my hardware are proven good. I have tried three HDs on this machine and after their trials, they again ran smoothly in another machine, ie: the problem is not the HD, nor any of the rest of the devices.
Could this be an incompatibility between W-8.1 and the graphic card here ? The RAM is new, the HD was changed, the graphic card also was replaced. I guess that I will have to live with this annoying bug, the machine is fully usable when I succeed in getting it to boot. My saviour is an USB device loaded with repair files.
Thanks for the education, Chris, in spite of not being able to pin down the problem. Mint is nice but I am not yet ready to leave Windows.All good wishes.
Edit :
NB: There was a funny after Mint, Chris. Some of the URLs that I patronize would not connect. I shut down completely and rebooted with the help of that USB device and after, it recognized all my URLs. I am on Gmail as if this means anything. I guess that there were a few particles left after Mint was closed. A FWIW ! I knew how to get out of it. Be good. Jean.
WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerMarch 1, 2015 at 9:16 pm #1493179Hello, Chris, across the pound. What a fine reply, thank you. I will attend to it tomorrow.
I have tried Linux before and I still use it at times eg: Gparted. I quit Unix and such as I could not get the drivers for most of my devices as Windows 7, then, could. The question machine is on 8.1 and runs quite nicely save the booting. I got two run-arounds to boot it but I am still curious as regard this aggravation. I keep it on Hibernation, good ! I also got a second drastic run-around, it was a total shock to the machine, I would throw the power switch to kill it but in spite of this horrible treatment, it would boot. Really beyond me to understand the machine logic.
Never mind the wood from the trees, I have a couple of chainsaws ready !
NB: my Acer is 64 bitness.
As Churchill was wont to say, all best wishes. Jean.
wavy
AskWoody Plus-
WSChris Cooper
AskWoody LoungerMarch 4, 2015 at 9:53 am #1493522Hi Jean,
Sorry for the delay in responding but Iโve been away from home for a few days.
As to some of your urls being broken, I canโt see any mechanism for that to have been caused by the Mint Live Demo โ it runs solely in RAM and does not involve the HD at all. Iโve noticed that both Chrome and Firefox have suddenly become very picky about system time โ I had a laptop in last week where many of the bookmarks, including Google, appeared broken. In passing, I noticed that the system time was ten minutes slow. On correction the browsers allowed connection to everything. Must be a tightening of the HTTPS requirements I guess.
You say the RAM is new โ I had a surprising recent experience where some Crucial recommended RAM caused numerous booting problems on an upmarket AMD based machine. Crucial, as ever, replaced the RAM without question but the faults remained. Replaced with similar spec Corsair modules and it runs a treat.
If your graphics card manufacturer provides Win8.1 drivers then youโd have expected them to have tested them on Win8.1 so I doubt the model is incompatible. Nevertheless it could still have some partial build fault – Mint may just have been less demanding of it than Win8.1
You say it canโt be the HD so I assume the other drives youโve tried were installed with Win8.1 and still threw up the same freezing boot error. So weโre running out of culprits โ except Win8 itself.
Interestingly, I came back yesterday to find someone had bought in a non-booting Win8.1 Acer laptop. This is the third time this Acer has been in over the last few months, each time displaying different faults. First time, the curser kept jumping back to the start of the line as you typed. Second time, if you clicked on any item on the desktop or in a folder it open the first item rather than the one youโd clicked. Absolutely nuts! This time it was just freezing when the desktop loaded. This turned out to be that Avast antivirus was pulling 95% of the CPU. Never seen Avast do that before but re-installing it cured the problem. The relevance to yours is that having cured the CPU overload fault it would occasionally freeze on start-up โ even before the balls started to revolve. In this case, simply touching any key broke the freeze and it then carried on to boot normally. Unfortunately I didnโt get chance to explore this further as, having solved the main fault, the lady needed her laptop tout suite and said she would bring it back some other time. My first thought is that this may be some โPause on Errorโ fault in the Uefi (the successor to the BIOS).
Regarding your comment that switching off at the power switch forces a boot. Although doing so is a recipe for disaster, particularly for the hard drive, you are most likely simply discharging all the systemโs capacitors โ in the same way that removing the battery from a laptop and holding the power button down for 30 seconds can often kick a frozen boot into life โ as it also did on the Acer Iโve just done.
Having turned this into War and Peace, yet again, Iโll wrap up by saying I find it interesting that all these weird Win8 symptoms, particularly booting and auto-repair, can be instantly and permanently solved if the client allows me to: change the Uefi to Legacy BIOS (thereby switching off secure boot), reformat the drive to MBR instead of GPT and then install Win7. Controversial, I know, but it is a fact.
There is nothing whatsoever secure about Secure Boot โ Iโve never seen so many seriously infected systems. My personal view is that Secure Bootโs real function is to prevent non-technical user from installing Linux which, following the general Win8 debacle and the runaway success of Android, Microsoft are now running scared of. Why else would Microsoft be giving Win10 away for free, if not to try to regain their reputation before getting swept away by the competition? Sad to see.
Not sure if any of this helps you solve your problem but at least I got it all off my chest! ๐
Cheers, Chris
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WShandcuff36
AskWoody Lounger
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WShandcuff36
AskWoody LoungerMarch 10, 2015 at 8:38 am #1494380Good morning, Chris.
My turn to apologize for being tardy, life of a retiree can be and is hectic. Thanks a couple of megas for your note. In the mean time, let me state that W-8.1 is not the culprit, my Acer is now running 9926 and doing great, save again the locked booting. You mentioned that I should look for an up-to-date Vidcard driver. I did, on the AMD site and I had the latest. This is a dated Vidcard and I do not think that AMD has followed suite in this regard. My loss !
I was also amazed to see that a major kill of the machine caused nothing worse and even cured this non-boot, I hesitated before OFFing the power bar, it came back ON live. Go search. ( As a small note, the CPU is quiet, runs at 10% to 4% ) ( The RAM usage shows 1 MBs as reserved to hardware, I presume that it goes to the Vidcard. )
Yes, I had trouble shot the RAM sticks, the HDs and all that I could think of, no joy, they all behaved fine in another machine. Really strange. I am still confident that the Vidcard is the culprit, seeing as I can cure the problem sans too much ado, I can live with it, not cricket but manageable.
I see that another reader has appreciated your dithyrambic prose, as much as I do, that is the spirit of this thread. I will keep trying to pin down this small annoyance and post back to you on any further progress.Further investigation confirmed this Vidcard as being the culprit. I got the box opened and re-installed the onboard video, it ran fine on three restarts from shutdown. It only gave me 1280 x 1024 that is useable on my monitor but not optimum. Back on the culprit card and it would not boot, therefore I used the USB startup key and I am back at 1920 x 1080 . . . nice !
In the mean time, at the SW end of the UK, have a great day. Jean.
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