Bott: Windows 10 Update Rules Change Like a Game of Calvinball

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Feel frustrated by all the changing Win10 nomenclature, processes and paradigms? Believe me, you aren’t alone. Just yesterday, @teroalhonen pointed me
[See the full post at: Bott: Windows 10 Update Rules Change Like a Game of Calvinball]

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Ed Bott hit the nail on the head when he said:

Microsoft, a company that built its reputation on backward compatibility.

Gone are those days. Now, instead of Microsoft doing what it can to be compatible with the customer, they force the customer to be compatible with them.

None of this makes me feel frustrated, however. You see, I have made the switch to Linux Mint, and I couldn’t be happier. For me, no longer is Windows the default and Linux the exception; for me, Linux is the default, and Windows is the exception. In fact, I rarely run Windows these days; 99% of my home computer time is spent in Linux Mint.

I refuse to subject myself to the abuse that Microsoft is putting out:
* Constantly changing the rules.
* Constantly changing the terminology.
* Forced updates to my computer.
* Telemetry.
* In short, me having to keep up with them.

Jump in! The water is fine! What are you waiting for?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer, Ascaris, lurks about, zero2dash, Cybertooth, Elly, FakeNinja

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You kind of forgot about freely installing and uninstalling programs on what is in theory “your” PC :).

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Cybertooth

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I guess you’re right – I have forgotten. Remind me of what you mean by “freely installing and uninstalling programs on what is in theory ‘my’ PC”.

As far as I know, I have no trouble freely installing and uninstalling programs on “my” PC, except when I’m booted into Linux — on occasion I have some trouble there.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Cybertooth

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@ MrJimPhelps

Win 10 upgrades through Windows Update have a habit of uninstalling or disabling users’ 3rd-party programs, especially AV programs, eg Kaspersky. …
https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/10/16121726/microsoft-kaspersky-anti-trust-complaint-dropped

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I’m pretty sure that @radosuaf meant that you could add to your list Microsoft’s freely installing and unintsalling programs on what should be your PC.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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radosuaf

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Candy Crush Saga – and I don’t have to write anything else :).

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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I’m shocked to see not only an unbiased Ed Bott article, but one I actually agree with on top of it.

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Cybertooth

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He does throw in a “benefit of the doubt” line towards the end:

So, is frequent change the new normal for Windows? It’s possible that the flurry of activity around this feature is just part of the bumpiness associated with the initial takeoff of Windows 10.

Windows 10 has been out for three years already. Under the previous Windows development/release model, the next version of Windows (“11”) would be out at this point. So Ed, how many decades are required before we stop saying that it’s “initial takeoff,” growing pains, kinks getting ironed out, and other such excuses?? Gimme a break.

When does Windows 10 finally become a “mature” product? Or are we expected now to accept a state of perpetual adolescence in the fundamental software that runs our computers?

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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Karlston

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Cybertooth wrote:

When does Windows 10 finally become a “mature” product?

I’d say that would be the moment when Settings (yeah, I hate ’em, but seems like the direction MS is aiming at) replace the Control Panel completely – looking at the current pace of changes, probably around 2028 :).

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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When you lost Ed you are toast.

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Ascaris

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HiFlyer, AlexEiffel, Noel Carboni, woody, FakeNinja

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It’s clear to them they need to do different stuff since business isn’t buying into Win 10.

When will they realize that “throw new stuff against the wall and see what sticks” just can’t work in the business world. People need to be able to plan for risks and costs and return on investment. To be able to do that they need to know what’s coming. NOBODY is going to base their business on “as a Service” when the company providing the service isn’t rock solid with a plan.

They forgot that failure is an option, and not everyone has a few billion in the bank to play with. Reality is really going to bite one day.

-Noel

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Elly, Ascaris, radosuaf, Karlston, lurks about

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Not only businesses but most users prefer stability to features. Also, most moderately expensive consumer devices have a functional life span 10 years+. Admittedly the elderly device does not have the nice, new features of what is in the show room but it works. This carries over to computers, they want enough stability so they can use it tomorrow to check their email, for that matter check their email next month.

An unstable OS which is inherent is SaaS and a lessor extent a rolling release requires a good bit of user knowledge and effort to keep running smoothly on occasion. Now, if someone deliberately chooses to use a rolling release OS or Linux distro, they should go into with the knowledge they will need to do some fiddling on the command line on occasion to get to run properly. However, to expect the average user to have these skills or the interest in getting the skills is flatly idiotic.

Many recommend Linux Mint as an alternative to W10 and it is a very viable alternative. Their release scheduled is an LTS version every 2 years supported for 5 years. And it is well behaved, no spyware, random updates, etc. with a consist look and feel.

I am personally a little more adventuresome and use Arch Linux derivatives which are rolling releases. As much as I like the Arch family it is not for regular users as it does require some fiddling periodically to keep running smoothly. But I also deliberately choose Arch so I can not complain about its quirks as they are part of the territory.

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AlexEiffel, Ascaris, Noel Carboni, Karlston, Elly

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lurks about wrote:

Not only businesses but most users prefer stability to features.

In an OS, stability is vital.  Not just stability in the sense of not bluescreening or the like, but stability in terms of being able to count on things that worked before working now.

Windows has strayed far away from that in the WaaS era, with two consecutive versions of Windows 10 making the news for breaking compatibility with existing drivers designed for Windows 10.  So much for Microsoft’s vaunted backwards compatibility!  Not only are they forcing end users (home or business) to jump through all kinds of hoops to meet Microsoft’s “moving target” update schedule, they’re requiring the OEMs (that write the drivers for their various components) to do so too.

Some OEMs already have a habit of EOLing perfectly viable hardware long before it is obsolete, and having the potential for every new Windows build to biannually break existing drivers and require OEMs to test and maybe rewrite every driver for every bit of hardware that is reasonably current is not going to help matters any.

Perhaps this is by design. If hardware isn’t becoming obsolete by Moore’s Law anymore, and hardware is reliable enough in general to last for the better part of a decade, and obsolescence is seen as a force to drive sales, then the OS maker can simply and continuously make existing drivers obsolete, so that continuous heroic intervention on the part of the OEM is required to keep a given component current.   Viola– the obsolescence cycle that was negated by greater reliability and the end of Moore’s Law is back.

Brought to you by Windows as a Service. (TM)

 

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lurks about

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What scares me about drivers breaking with an ‘update’ is MS will not take responsibility for the fact it was their decisions that created the underlying problem.

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Everything about Windows 10 appears to have been cooked up on the fly. I ask myself, how did Microsoft go from Windows 8 to Windows 10. You have to see the dramatic change of course in Windows 10. This couldn’t have been in the long term planning of Windows.

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Elly

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…and like Calvinball, one side always gets the short end of the stick. (Calvin in the strips, Windows users in this equation)

LABS - a family friendly webcomic about scientists, robots and Wisconsin

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Elly

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<humor>

I’ve isolated and reverse engineered the algorithm that determines if a system gets the 1709 update.  In human terms:

On end sleep goto 1

1) Check compatibility:  If yes goto 2, if no sleep 30 days.

2) Check delay updates settings, if delay=yes goto 3, if delay=no goto 3 . . .

3) Call RNG for a x001 or a x002.  If x001, goto 4, if x002 sleep 7 days.

4) Attempt upgrade to 1709

</humor>

~ Group "Weekend" ~

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Noel Carboni

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From For enterprises, the big changes to Windows 10 1709 aren’t obvious:

‘The naming differences are insignificant compared to the advice Microsoft gave enterprises about deployment: Previously, it told corporate customers to steer clear of Current Branch. Instead, they were to wait for Microsoft to give a green light – usually awarded about four months after the launch of Current Branch – indicating the upgrade had been sufficiently tested, mostly by consumers, and now warranted widespread roll-outs by IT. That green light also marked a change in labels, as the upgrade was promoted to the Current Branch for Business channel.

Now, Microsoft recommends that all enterprises jump on each Semi-Annual Channel release immediately, at least for a subset of workers. “As soon as that release date happens, begin piloting, begin deploying [the feature upgrade] to a percentage of your organization,” Michael Niehaus, director of product marketing for Windows, said in a briefing at the company’s Ignite conference three weeks ago. “You want to start right way so you can build up trust, build up confidence, in the release itself.”‘

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AlexEiffel

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Yessiree, installing the new version right-out-of-the-chute will build that confidence right up.

I’ve grown very confident, for example, that such an update will revert many of my settings, install Apps I’ve removed, become incompatible with software I consider important, and generally leave me unproductive should I install a brand new release.

Too much is being smoked in Redmond methinks.

-Noel

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Elly

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Maybe, M$ do not have enough Beta-testers in Win 10 Ent/Pro and Alpha-testers in Windows Insiders. To “service” their Enterprise and Professional users, there is not much point for M$ to have too many Beta-testers in Win 10 Home, which could not pause/defer upgrades.

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You’re right. Nadella let the testers go. Now the developers (and of course the users) do their own testing.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer

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back in days most of pc users used illegal copys of windows where i live, ill consider my genuine copy one of those illegal bootlegs n pass updating my system n stick to 1511 that will be saved from the viruse called microsoft and reach end of life YAY, Microsoft will end support for 1511 is great news for me no viruses undercovered as updates

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Cybertooth

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The lack of stability with W10, particularly its nasty habit of breaking drivers, is not good for users or the OEM component manufacturers. People who need expensive builds for their computing requirements in part depend upon backward compatibility to justify the significant upfront costs of high end mobos, processors, memory and video cards,etc. To have such investments become subject to artificially induced obsolescence will reduce the willingness to invest in high end PC/Workstation builds. This will in the long run not be in the best interest of third party OEMs who try to sell $500 plus graphic cards and other components. Unfortunately, MS thinks that everyone now has an equipment horizon equivalent to a smartphone.

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AlexEiffel, MrBrian

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lurks about wrote:

When you lost Ed you are toast.

Kind of like how LBJ despaired at having lost Walter Cronkite.  At least LBJ was wise enough to know what it meant… does Microsoft know or care?

Of course, I don’t know that Mr. Bott has truly been “lost” just yet.  He’s criticized some of Microsoft’s actions regarding 10 before, even if he does always assume the best, most noble intentions are behind actions that seem nakedly aggressive to me.  If Mr. Bott ever gets to the point that he suspects intentional aggression first whenever MS does anything remarkable, in a kind of reverse Hanlon’s razor (which is about how I see it), then MS will have truly lost.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
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Microsoft pleads for more enterprise Windows 10 Insider recruits

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If forcing your product onto people for free doesn’t work then maybe you need to pay for their service. But then you could have kept a professional in-house QA team in place with less damage to your commercial image.

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Elly

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