Build Your Own

Topic

New Reply

I’ve been long impressed by the experience represented by this forum.

Have any of you decided that the time has come to assemble your own computer?

Time was that if something didn’t work, major computer makers provided pretty good support. Now manufacturer’s support has descended to the lowest common denominator. If I find I don’t understand something, I look for a reasonable forum where I might find an answer.

This has led me to consider buying a box and the components and putting them together myself. CNet seems to have a community called Extremetech which is mostly ‘gamer’ oriented, but where, from time to time, suggestions for a collection of the best available parts for the $ can be found. Perhaps there are others.

Has anyone had a successful experience?

Reply | Quote

Replies

I’ve never looked online for a “support group” on the topic of building a computer, selecting parts, etc. except for an occasional question here in The Lounge. In my case, I have enough local contacts that I can usually get advice galore on selecting a good case, video card, etc. However, I do have a couple of comments on the build vs. buy story line, so here goes.

1) Support: consider that if you buy the myriad parts it takes to build your own computer, you essentially have zero support other than the part manufacturer’s 30 day, 90 day or whatever guarantee against failure. You’re right in saying that generally speaking, support is much less than most of us would like, but at least you get something if you buy from a reputable PC manufacturer. My lone request for support from Dell on this year-old computer was very positive, quick and helpful, but I’m sure most people think that’s quite rare.

2) Cost: I believe with prices the way they are in the USA, there isn’t much difference one way or the other in building or buying. Yes, there is a difference but it isn’t as significant as it was a number of years ago when I was actively engaged in building and repairing PCs. I really don’t think I could’ve built this machine I’m using for the amount I paid Dell to buy it AND get a three year warranty as well.

I wish you luck and hope that others can chime in with better answers to your question(s).

PS The very worst part about buying a computer is all the useless and unnecessary junk software they all load up, in an alleged attempt to “help” the user!

Reply | Quote

> The very worst part about buying a computer is all the useless and unnecessary junk software they all load up, in an alleged attempt to “help” the user!

I can vouch for this, having had considerable problems removing McAfee from two new Dell Optiplexes. About seven Services to stop/disable before you could get near the Uninstaller!

Some people speak well of PC-Decrapifier, but I found that once I’d Add/Removed all the stuff I didn’t want there was nothing more for it to flag up.

John

Reply | Quote

We have been buying Sony VAIO’s for the past several years. The support has been there for both calls. We have NOT needed to use the Sony support except for the 2 calls, as the systems have been very sound.

I have even started using some of the HP’s for my clients, as these products have been found to be sound also.

But if you still want to have the thrill of pain in building your own system, there are many around here for advice.

DaveA I am so far behind, I think I am First
Genealogy....confusing the dead and annoying the living

Reply | Quote

With the exception of my first PC, an XT model, I have always built my own PCs from “scratch”, using my own selection of components and software.
At first, I had built some with a minimal configuration but with the ability to upgrade bit by bit, as I could afford to do so. As I used to say, I was always on the trailing edge of technology instead of the leading edge.
Things has improved with the latest two boxes I have “home built”. I consider them right up there with the best around.
I just don’t care for someone else deciding what kind of system is best for me. That goes for both the load of “extra” software and the hardware configuration.

I heartily endorse the do-it-yourself concept.

Reply | Quote

There are things to consider beyond the comments already made.

1.) How important to you is the experience of assembling a system?
2.) How much time are you willing to expend?
3.) What is your time worth to you?
4.) Is any of the software you get in an OEM system worthwhile for you?
5.) If you are going to install Vista, how much will you have to spend for new versions of software that are Vista compatible compared to an OEM?

Joe

--Joe

Reply | Quote

I’ve built 3 so far and enjoyed every minute of it. The first one was most stressful due mostly to my inexperience and lack of confidence. But after building the first one, it was all downhill from there. I couldn’t believe how easy it was.

As Al mentioned there might not be a great difference in cost between the two, but you do have an advantage in building your own because of the freedom to pick & choose which components you want to use. In nearly every pre-built name brand PC I’ve seen, the components are of less quality, particularly the Power Supply (underpowered and CHEAP). A low quality power supply is prone to failure and when it does it can also take out your motherboard. So, IF you decide on buying a pre-built name brand machine, e.g., Dell (ack), Gateway, eMachines , etc., at least consider replacing the power supply with a good one, e.g., Antec, Thermaltake, OCZ, et al.

Should you find that you want the best of both worlds, i.e., avoiding the name brand machines, choose which components (brand, model, etc.) you want, but not assemble it yourself, find a local reputable computer retailer (NOT Future Shop or such places) and have them assemble it for you. They will assemble and test it thoroughly before handing it over and include a warranty; 1 to 3 years on parts and/or labor.

Jeff

Reply | Quote

There is also a good site at DIRECTRON where it not only has topics like “how to choose a motherboard or Hard Drive or Monitor, etc, etc”, but will also guide you in the selection process. It will add on your selected components, price them and let you make changes BEFORE you buy.
The site has many tutorials on system building.
Check it out.

Reply | Quote

The reason I built my last PC myself was because I wanted something that was quiet and there was a very limited choice of over-priced quiet PCs on the market.

I have been very pleased with the choices I made. It’s just what I wanted.

StuartR

Reply | Quote

It used to be a lot more economical to build your own, but compared with lost-cost computers nowadays, it’s probably not a big difference.

The big advantages comes at upgrade time. If your computer doesn’t have enough Ram, just add more. Vista? New video card! You don’t have to do all the research and get out the credit card to purchase a whole new system. You know what your system is capable of, and what you need to upgrade to get more capability, because you designed and built it in the first place!

I would try places like Newegg.com and Mwave.com, they have user reviews that can be pretty illuminating. mwave also has forums.

One thing you may want to look into is if you purchase the motherboard and cpu at the same place, have them mount and test the cpu for you. Mwave, for example, charges $9 for this service, and it’s well worth it. (I speak from experience). Mounting a cpu on a motherboard is kind of like cutting your own hair. Sure you could do it yourself, but it’s probably better to pay an expert.

Reply | Quote

My PC is a custom built and at the time I built it, it was cheaper to do so. I am looking to replace it with one that has “More Power”, and find that to get what I want from HP I would be into it for north of 2000. I can build it for 1000 using Tiger Direct and this way I don’t get any of the unwanted junk software. For an everyday machine like for my wife and stepdaughter it would be an off the shelf computer however.

Reply | Quote

Another thing you could do is just replace the Motherboard, CPU and Power supply and re-use all your other components. That would be cheaper still and you’ll get almost all of the benefit of a completely new box.

The only gotcha here is that some newer cpus require a newer psu with the 4-prong 12V connector.

Reply | Quote

thats right. I have a nice tower, and the HD,CD-Rom’s are brand new so I can use that no need to replace.

Reply | Quote

A couple of years ago a friend’s son built his own computer from scratch. Magnificent looking thing, with never a cooling problem. He created a frame out of 4mm stainless steel tubing and laid the motherboard on a diagnal to stabilise it. All other components were then added, either to the motherboard, obviously, or to other ‘hanging frames’ within the frame. And of course he had all the coloured lights and flashing thingys. Quite a work of art, really.

Reply | Quote

[indent]

---

Mounting a cpu on a motherboard is kind of like cutting your own hair. Sure you could do it yourself, but it’s probably better to pay an expert.

---

[/indent]
I love the analogy.

The first time I replaced a CPU, I wondered why I needed a razor to remove it from the heatsink.

The first time the CPU overheated, I wondered why I saw smoke.

The first time I saw thermal compound, I kicked myself in the butt.

Reply | Quote

baum,

I can vouch for Sony, not only have I had my Vaio VGC-RB30 for two years with minimal issues, but when I have run into things I can’t solve myself, their tech support has been the most helpful I’ve ever encountered. There was a period that I was told would last 15+ minutes, and the service rep actually offered to stay on the line with me.

On to buying an upgradable system:
Make sure that you’ve got parts that make sense on the original machine. One thing I don’t agree with on my Vaio is that the FSB on the motherboard is 800mhz, however the machine is limited to DDR type RAM (not DDR2)….the max speed on DDR RAM is 400mhz, and the computer is ultimately as fast as its slowest component. I can upgrade the RAM until I’m blue in the face, but it will only help so much. Ensure you’ve got a machine with PCI and PCI Express slots, as many (cheaper versions of the same model) video cards now plug into PCI Express slots.

A ‘gamer’ oriented machine will be a bit more expensive off the get-go, but are usually very upgradable and top-notch for speed.

Reply | Quote

A little late to the party but I thought it a good idea to recommend a particular vendor: MWave. Someone in the Lounge recommended this vendor to me some time ago and I am ever so thankful.

I have built my last three systems. I’m certain I saved money plus I got the exact hardware and software i wanted. Most recently I purchased my motherboard, chip and memory from MWave. For $9, they assembled those components, tested them (compatibility, etc.) and upgraded the bios on the motherboard. Shipped to me in two days.

Also make sure you check PriceWatch for the best prices. Lastly, go for a high quality enclosure. You’ll be glad that you selected a nice case. I’ve used CoolerMaster in the past, while my last system was built inside a Thermaltake Tsunami Dream. I love it.

Have Fun and Good Luck

Reply | Quote

thanks Ricky,
I have been using TigerDirect. the sites sure do resemble each other.

Reply | Quote

Thank you to everyone who responded for all of the helpful insights.

Before I start this process, I have one more question for those with experience. I started looking into getting an operating system and basic office software. From what I’ve read, I don’t think I have the ‘hobby need’ to try to make Linux work for me. Like many, I’ve become comfortable with Word and Excel, although I never made the transition from WordBasic 6 and the Hackers Guide to macro programing for Word 2000.

I learned the hard way that alternative software can lead to unreadable or unworkable files. I was an early adopter of Lotus Improv and was left high and dry when they ‘abandoned’ the product. One of the purported ‘advantages’ of a purchased machine is OEM software from MicroSoft.

How many of you found a way to get a legitimate copy of XP and Office in the OEM version, one that you could register?

How many would counsel me to bite the bullet and buy ‘over the counter’ copies?

Thanks,

Reply | Quote

I can’t imagine that anyone could object to selling you an OEM copy of Windows XP when you buy a motherboard. I’ve done it many times, and never had an issue.

This is what mwave.com says:

Qualifying proof of purchase must be either a receipt for a complete personal computer or recent receipts showing the purchase of a mother board, hard drive, RAM and a CPU. The components can be on multiple receipts; not necessarily all on one receipt nor on the same receipt as the qualifying Windows XP/Office 2003 that you purchased. Shipping and handling charges are not included. See terms and conditions.

On their OEM Xp page: http://www.mwave.com/mwave/Skusearch.hmx?scriteria=AA15070%5B/url%5D

Can’t say about Office, though. For 2003, the answer was always “Students and Teachers Edition” (which was really open to anyone), but I don’t know if that deal will continue with O2007.

Reply | Quote

OEM editions of XP should be readily available through a variety of outlets, either online or locally. I would suggest he grab XP Pro vs. Home version since support for Home will end in the near future.

The former “Student and Teacher” edition of Office is now called, “Home and Student 2007” edition. It is offered as OEM but the caveat is that it must be installed by a certified Dealer/Systems Builder and there is no CD included, although one can be ordered for $11 from Microsoft directly. Thus what would be available would the the “Retail” edition (there is no upgrade edition) which is very reasonably priced and it can be installed on 3 PC’s with the restriction that the machines be resident within the same household. There is one other consideration when considering Office 2007 and that is it requires more RAM. A minimum of 1 gig is recommended.

Jeff

Reply | Quote

I’ve actually purchased an OEM version of Windows with an accompanying hard drive. If I violated any terms and/or conditions, it was completely unintentional (and there was no hassle from the vendor). In your case, you should be able to purchase the OEM version of Windows (any flavor) along with the appropriate hardware.

This would be a great time to (brand new install) push ahead with Vista Ultimate.

One other note about OEM software (Windows or Office). The letters “OEM” are actually part of the serial number. So, if and when you contact Microsoft for support, you will find that there is a fee involved (or they will direct you to get support from your hardware vendor). Shouldn’t be a deal breaker but it is something you should be aware of.

Have you decided on all of your hardware, yet?

– Yesterday, I purchased a ViewSonic VX2235wm 22″ LCD Monitor for $229. It’s great. And the price was actually less than anything on PriceWatch.

Reply | Quote

Ricky,
Care to share where you got that deal on the monitor?

Reply | Quote

Bob,

Costco (in St. Louis): Regular $279. Now offering $50 rebate at the register. They also have the next model up (comparatively priced) that has the docking station for an Ipod along with multiple connections (USB, Firewire, Audio, etc.) I’m not really in to all the gadgetry, so I got the one for $229.

Should have the same deal at any Costco. But note the rebate program ends on 4/22/07.

Reply | Quote

Ricky,
Thanks for the info. The less expensive price must be an in-store price. I didn’t see any on line with the $299.00 price and with the $50.00 rebate. But still a good deal, I think.

However, I got off on a tangent and wound up looking at an automotive version GPS Garmin for $349.00 and it looks like I may blow my mad money on that right now!

Reply | Quote

On the website, they only listed the the higher grade ViewSonic with the Ipod Connection, etc. You can see where the $50 rebate ends on Sunday. The location I went to had the 22″ monitor I described earlier. I don’t know if they all do.

You never know the difference a wide screen makes until you crank up a spreadsheet and you can see columns A thru Z all on the screen at once (before adjusting the column widths…)

Reply | Quote

Thanks for the input, Ricky,

I’m still working myself up to creating a specifications list and all. I have a bunch of other projects started and the last thing I need is to open one more, however, my OptiPlex GX200, running Win98 SE2, is getting tired. Well, in truth, it it that the SCSI HDD’s are all getting full and I do find that I still go back through old documents and email to retrieve history, and, digital photographs do fill disks quickly. My storage capacity may push me to a decision sooner rather than later.

You suggested upgrading to Vista Ultimate. Perhaps its a mark of someone who is running the hardware/software I’m using, but I’m not keen on pitching my LaserJet 4L, DeskJet 882C, Epson Perfection 636U, and PhotoSmart C5100A scanners, all of which work just fine, just because there are no Vista drivers for them. I’ve had to do a few routine repairs on the LaserJet, but I doubt anyone is building printers as solidly as HP built this one. The PhotoSmart scanner presents an added problem in that it uses the SCSI interface, so any new machine would need to accept a card to support it. All new hardware seems too big a budget for someone on a fixed income. Is someone maintaining a reliable list of available drivers for Vista?

As I composed this, I allowed myself to be ‘distracted’ by one clearly primary task, that of specifying disk storage for a new machine (since I’d made reference to it above). When I last specified a machine (2/99 – it was a Dell Dimension PII 450 that Dell replaced with the OptiPlex when they could not get it to work right while it was still under warranty) SCSI HDD’s were faster than other disks. Clearly much has changed. How to sort through all the marketing hype to understand what I want appears challenging.

Those are some of the impediments to my getting started.

Thanks,

Reply | Quote

I see your point in regards to Vista… Still, putting together a brand new PC and installing the operating system from scratch is the ideal time to think ahead… I can tell that you’re happy with some of your current hardware and there’s no telling if Vista drivers will ever be available for some of what you have. With so much new stuff entering the market daily, I would doubt the “driver” makers would back up very far. So, it just may be a case where Windows XP Pro may be the way you need to go. Nothing wrong with that.

Hard drives(s)? I’d say that SATA (Serial ATA) is the way to go. It is the current standard. My system has SATA connectors on the motherboard and I also have a PCI IDE card that allows continued use of my older IDE drives. Just stick with any of the name brand drives and you should be okay. Maxtor, Seagate, Western Digital come to mind. There are other good ones.

Another consideration is getting your data from the older machine to the new one. If your current data is on SCSI drives and you build a system with SATA drives, how do you transfer data? Can you burn your current data files to CDR’s? If you can put together a home network for the two PC’s, you can simply drag and drop from one PC to the other in an explorer window.

You eluded to some budget restraints. Without getting too personal, you’d be surprised how good the advice would get if you gave the loungers an idea of what they could spend on your behalf. If you said (for example) that you had $1200 to put into a system, then the guys and gals here could help you build the best $1200 system possible. Just a thought.

Reply | Quote

This is what I am having built. you will note that both Windows XPP and Vista are listed. Take out Windows XPP and leave Vista. I configured as close as I was able to on HP’s web site and it was over $2,000.
I am not using anything off of my current PC. This is from a local company.

Reply | Quote

John,

You know , there is a lot to be said for this approach, in my opinion. You get all the benefits of a new custom system without spending a lot of time gathering all the parts and putting it together with its attendant risks. Granted, if a hobby activity is the goal then you miss out on that fun and education. There is still a lot to be learned in software installation and tuning . I am not sure what the labor charge is for in your list, but is seems surprisingly low for almost any activity. Is that bottom line cost your full $ outlay to the company, and was the HP cost without any software?

Paul

Reply | Quote

Ricky and Paul,
I reconfigured the HP m8000e series PC, and the actual price w/o monitor or any other software except the junk that they put on it is $1899.99.
But! the real problem with the HP configuration is I can’t get it configured like I want it. Some things are not compatible with others. More of Pain if you know what I mean.
By doing it the way I am, I don’t have to go to the pains of removing all of their junk, I get the features that I want, and I already have all of the software that I need (for now!).
On the other side, I would however purchase a PC from HP for either my wife or stepdaughter for the simple fact that if something goes haywire when I am not here, they have support through HP. I would also never self configure a laptop for myself or them for the very same reason. When I travel, the last thing that I need is to have my laptop go down and nothing in the way of support except my limited knowledge of hardware. This did happen to me too, just shortly after I purchased it, the travel power supply went down while I was in LV for a convention and HP over nighted a new 12 Cell battery and a new travel powersupply at no charge! Can’t beat that kind of service.
My laptop in an HP dv5000 with all the bells and whistles (2G RAM, 2.2 AMD Turion 64 Processor) on it and that is my main computer. My PC is an almost exact duplicate in terms of software ( Office’07, ZA Security Suite, CAD programs etc. (sans the HP junk), data, as my laptop.
The PC that I am giving up although getting a little long in the tooth is an exceptional machine, and has performed almost flawlessly. I am giving it to my stepdaughter as a moving out of the house present so that she will also have a back up. My wife already has my old HP laptop which serves her purposes just dandily after I had HP go through it and repair as needed. Her PC is also an HP.
Just in case you are wondering NO! I don’t work for HP! I have just always had great reliable equipment from them.

Reply | Quote

At $2000, I’m assuming the HP system included a monitor and warranty?

Reply | Quote

The only thing I’d say is spend the money from not having XP on a higher rated processor. The AM2 3800+ is one of the lowest rated in the AMD dual-core line.

Joe

--Joe

Reply | Quote

I took a quick look at MWave, and put this system together in just 3-4 minutes. This looks nice! Includes a dual core processor, 2GB RAM, top line audio card, two 250GB hard drives, the same case you already had with a 450W power supply and extra fan. Also includes a Sony optical drive and a Lite On CD/DVD writer.

Take a good look at the Asus P5W DH Deluxe Motherboard; it has built-in wireless networking and also has onboard LAN so you would not need an additional networking card. It also has on-board audio so you could save a bit more by not getting the soundblaster. The motherboard also has plug and play RAID. You can just hook your two 250MB hard drives up and your data is automatically duplicated from one to the other. All of the latest technology is present: SATA, USB2, Firewire, etc.

This system is comprised of top shelf components. The parts “should not” become obsolete overnight.

What’s missing (must have): Monitor, Keyboard, Mouse, Operating System (software).
What’s missing (optional): Speakers, Floppy Drive, Flash Card Reader, External Drive.

Reply | Quote