Can my computer belong to me?

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Sure, Win7 breaks less than XP did, but Microsoft has really messed up on security. The “Ownership” and “Permissions” are CONSTANTLY prohibiting me from using my computer. I have wasted HOURS and HOURS of time trying to do things that I could do in seconds in XP. Why in heaven’s name did not the geniuses at Microsoft allow ME to access ALL of the files on MY computer when I am running as ADMINISTRATOR. To lock me out of my own computer is simply dumber than dirt! Is there any way to run in “I’ll take my chances” mode with Win7? Is there any way that I can regain the full use of my computer without wiping my hard disk and installing “buggy” old XP or endlessly geeky Linux?

My new computer with factory Win7 is not worth much more than a doorstop at this time. I have programmed computers since way before the IBM PC existed, but Microsoft’s current idiocy has me thinking Apple for the first time. Is there any way for me to be the owner of this computer?

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Bob,

Ubuntu Linux isn’t very geeky, works well, installs easily, has automatic updates, is pretty nice. I have one pc running it in my office, mostly for the experience and for running as an ftp server. It’s been years since I worked in UNIX (and then, in AIX) so I wanted to keep my hand in, at least a little bit.

You do know that Apple Mac OS is Unix, right? Everytime you install a new program, you need to type in the administrator password.

Microsoft is FINALLY trying to protect it’s users, each new os has been better than the last (well, maybe not ME), usability and security-wise. I run Win7 on my main pc and have very few security issues, while running AVG Internet Security and MBAM Pro to help protect myself.

You could change ownership of all files on the C: Drive, but I think that would be a bad idea – Windows could break if ownership isn’t set properly – plus, when updates are applied, the ownership might go right back to what M$ wants it to be.

By the way, I started programming professionally on the Univac 494 system, using a language called Spurt – Univac’s form of assembler, back in 1973.

Randy C

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Bob, my computor belongs to me. Yours can too. Go to the Start and type in UAC. It will give you somewhere to start and change the User Account Control ( UAC ). I hardly ever get a dialog asking me to allow or not a move that I initiate. Let me know if this is enough.

Have a nice evening. . . ..Jean.

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of my PC, but I don’t own Windows, and neither do any of us. I paid for a license to use it, but I don’t in any way, shape, or form own it, but don’t take my word for it. Read the EULA.

Having said that, I do use the software in ways that Microsoft does not support, but it doesn’t actually break the EULA, and Microsoft doesn’t actaully say that I can’t use it in some of the ways that I do, only that they don’t support using it in other than a standard configuration.

But I, for one, don’t really mind a popup asking me if I want software from an unknown source to be installed on my computer from an internet address I haven’t even visited. When I answer in the negative, the software doesn’t get installed, and I consider that a good thing. YMMV.

I have noticed after the SP-1 update that when I’m logged onto an account in the Administrators Group, I get fewer “confirmation” popups than I got before. But I routinely run from a standard user account, and I seldom do things from my standard user accounts that would invoke the UAC. That’s what my account in the Administrators Group is for.

Perhaps I’m overly fixated on organization, but I use different accounts to perform differnt types of tasks. For example, I use one standard user account for all things financial, and I don’t do any financial activity from any other account. I balance my checkbook, do my taxes, etc. all from that account, and that’s all I use that account for.

It helps me stay focused on the task at hand. But my main point is that UAC doesn’t get in my way. When I’m monkeying around with the innards of Windows, I want to be asked if I know what I’m doing. I don’t mind the opportunity for a do-over before the change I’m trying to make becomes permanent. I do keep up to date drive images, but UAC helps keep me from having to use them regularly.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Try Take Ownership, from here: http://www.blogsdna.com/2173/add-take-ownership-option-in-right-click-context-menu-of-windows-7.htm

It will easily remove the dumb access restrictions to files that showed up, first on Vista, and now still plague Windows 7.

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There is another way to take ownership of particular file or folder: (the how to break your system method)
Right click on the file or folder in question, select properties. Go to the security tab, highlight “everyone” and select edit. When the new menu opens, remove “everyone” from the list.

How to Take Ownership and Grant Permissions in Windows Vista (same as W7)
Easier Way to Take Ownership and Grant Access Files or Directories in Vista

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You can run as part of the administrator’s group but not as Administrator with your user name, however, Windows 7 does have a user called Administrator that truly has full and complete privileges to everything on the machine. This user is prebuilt and is disabled. If you are running the Pro or ultimate versions of windows you can go in and enable this user, assign a password and login and run as administrator.
THIS IS A BAD IDEA.

Microsoft has FINALLY come to their senses and decided that in most cases it is better for a normal user to NOT run with these elevated privileges. This is something that has been implemented in Linux for many years. Now that MS has implemented it people are talking about switching to Linux…….???………:huh:

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Thanks to all for your responses to my questions. They have given me several avenues to investigate. Thanks to mercyh for informing me that when Windows 7 says that I am running as “Administrator”, that I am actually being lied to. That tip alone helps me make sense of what I see happening. In my previous experiences with Windows, when they said that I was Administrator, the OS acted as if I was the Administrator. Learning that Bill’s Latest and Greatest denies me ever being the actual Administrator of my computer system (unless, needless to say, they are paid more money) tells me the real story about what happens when the control freaks run amuck. I have used Bill’s OS since the days of MS-DOS 1.0, but from my personal point of view, the Microsoft Corporation has “improved” the Windows OS so effectively that I will be shopping elsewhere for my next OS. So, I plan to see if Steve Jobs has set himself up as the only person who can be allowed to configure my Mac. If Apple does not yet demand extra money from the user to allow them to be the real Administrator of the computer they own, I’ll probably go with them. If they have gone down the control freak road too, Ubuntu here I come! Goodbye and good riddance to Microsoft! And when the new cars come with factory installed Auto-Drive (because, of course, the engineers know how to drive better than you do), I’ll be shopping for the old “manual drive” models. ‘Just old fashioned, I guess…..

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So, I plan to see if Steve Jobs has set himself up as the only person who can be allowed to configure my Mac.

From everything I’ve heard, he has. My brother is a Mac devotee and has been for years. According to him, things are either very easy on a Mac, or they are impossible. I’ve used a Mac on occaission, but I’d never buy one. I’ve also tried Linux on a couple of occaissions, but I don’t really care for it.

If Apple does not yet demand extra money from the user to allow them to be the real Administrator of the computer they own, I’ll probably go with them.

One doesn’t own the software on a Mac anymore than one owns the software on a PC. One merely owns a license to use the software.

As for the default Administrator account, it’s a simple matter to open the management console, go to Users and enable the Windows default Administrator account. It’s also a simple matter to disable UAC. I don’t, but it is a simple process.

When I first started using Windows 7 and discovered that I couldn’t move the Program Files folder to a separate partition and have that location set as the default program installation location as I had done in XP, I took out my digital scalpel.

I carved up Windows 7 and put it together the way I want it. The Windows OS is on a small partition, Program Files default location is on a separate, larger partition, and Users default location is on still another separate partition.

Microsoft doesn’t support my configuration, but then I don’t need them to support it. It is quite stable and reliable, and I make drive images for backup on a routine basis. Service Pack 1 installed on my setup without a whimper.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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With you being in the administrator group and not being “THE Administrator” on a Windows 7 PC, it is very much like what Unix & Linux based systems have been all along. On those you aren’t “THE Administrator” unless you log in as “root”. See bbearren’s post #9 about activating “THE Administrator” account.

Joe

--Joe

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With you being in the administrator group and not being “THE Administrator” on a Windows 7 PC, it is very much like what Unix & Linux based systems have been all along. On those you are “THE Administrator” unless you log in as “root”.

Joe

Joe, did you mean to say “On those you aren’t “THE Administrator” unless you log in as “root”?

It’s been a while since I played with Linux, but I think that’s the way I remember it. Of course, I could very well be wrong.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Joe, did you mean to say “On those you aren’t “THE Administrator” unless you log in as “root”?

It’s been a while since I played with Linux, but I think that’s the way I remember it. Of course, I could very well be wrong.

Oops. :huh:
You are correct. I fixed it. Thanks.

Joe

--Joe

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I think there is some confusion over the Admin account and being in the administrators group. If you are in the Administrators group, you are an admin and have all the same privileges the administrator account has. Its the UAC that blocks attempts to install things or make OS level changes. If you don’t like that, drop the slider down to never alert. But I don’t recommend it. The reason its there is to alert you when malicious software is attempting to do something you don’t want to be done. I have never been restricted on my Win 7 machines from performing any action I needed to.

The local Administrator account is disabled because its one of the system accounts and has the same SID on every Windows PC, and of course is well known by anyone who does not have your best interests in mind when it comes to attempting access to your computer. There was a time when best practice was to rename the account, but the SID issue makes that a waste of time. The Admin account is only really used when the OEM is doing imaging or when using Sysprep to create an image for an enterprise environment. It is best left disabled.

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It has been my experience that there are indeed a couple of capabilities THE Administrator has that other members of the Administrators Group do not have.

I always enable THE Administrator account long enough to give it a password. There are exploits that will allow the account to be enabled if the machine is running under an Administrators Group account.

Which is just another of many reasons that I routinely run as a standard user.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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It has been my experience that there are indeed a couple of capabilities THE Administrator has that other members of the Administrators Group do not have.

I always enable THE Administrator account long enough to give it a password. There are exploits that will allow the account to be enabled if the machine is running under an Administrators Group account.

Which is just another of many reasons that I routinely run as a standard user.

Hence the need for “run as administrator”.

Joe

--Joe

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Thanks again, guys. I guess that I was not completely clear. I do not want to run day to day as Admin. But I would like to be able log on as Admin and have full and unfettered access to all of the files on my computer. As several of you have noted above, that does not seem to be possible. Then there’s the issue of just who owns the files on my computer, more control freak foolishness. Anyone with any real desire to circumvent these “protections” can do so with relative ease, given that wide open web thingy! It would be respectful of the computer owner to allow him to switch off this plethora of protective add ons when the computer owner wishes. Yes,yes, Microsoft EULA says that I don’t own the opsys, understood, but I’ll assert that I do own my paid for copy of every file of that opsys which spins around on my hard disk.

All that I want is to simply be treated like an adult. As an adult, I understand that if I’m doing the driving, that I’m responsible for the crashes. In the instance of my personal computer, I’d just like to be allowed to drive when that is what I feel like doing with my personal computer. Somehow, that doesn’t seem like too much to ask for.

I guess that I ‘m still having a bit of an issue with my computer saying “I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.”

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Yes,yes, Microsoft EULA says that I don’t own the opsys, understood, but I’ll assert that I do own my paid for copy of every file of that opsys which spins around on my hard disk.

The reality is that you don’t own any of it. You simply own a license to use it. The EULA declares that if you are not in total agreement with it (the EULA) your only recourse is to uninstall the OS from your machine. Those files don’t belong to you; only the right to use them.

All that I want is to simply be treated like an adult. As an adult, I understand that if I’m doing the driving, that I’m responsible for the crashes. In the instance of my personal computer, I’d just like to be allowed to drive when that is what I feel like doing with my personal computer. Somehow, that doesn’t seem like too much to ask for.

I guess that I ‘m still having a bit of an issue with my computer saying “I’m sorry, Dave. I’m afraid I can’t do that.”

There are a lot of things that can’t be done IN Windows, but can be done TO Windows. There are lots of things that can be done with a Windows Repair disk. Microsoft (and the OEM’s as well) like to keep users “in the box”, because they have huge databases full of ways to correct the blunders that can occur inside the box.

I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have any idea of what it is you are wanting to do that you can’t do. Perhaps if you could give us a better idea of what that might be, we would be better able to assist you.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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See Enable Administrator Account for instructions. If you are running Windows 7 Home Premium see option two. Once the Administrator account is enabled you should be able to logon to the account.

Joe

--Joe

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This is ever increasingly starting to smell like a whining rant fest thread, rather than an actual debate about functionality.
Lets just get over it already. There are plenty of workarounds for permissions based issues.

If you don’t like the os move on. Pure and simple.

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I guess that I am still being unclear. I am an experienced old time hacker who can get around inside a computer and is fully capable of finding any information I need to alter file ownership (which I have done), and likely any other scheme that I come across that was put there to protect me from myself. The intended question I meant to ask in my first post was to ask folks more knowledgeable than myself “Can all of these protect-me-from-myself features be turned off in Windows 7 when I would like to work with Windows as easily as I have in all previous versions?” (I skipped the Vista debacle) So far, I have yet to see a reply that says “Flip this switch and the op sys will stop protecting you from yourself” In Linux, when I log in as root, I just don’t see any such “protection”, but then that was in older distros. Perhaps the newer Linux distros treat the “root” user like Windows seems to treat the Win7 “Administrator”. You’ll be told that you are a member of the Administrators Group, and you will have more control of your computer, but you will still find yourself jumping thru hoop after hoop put there to protect you from yourself. But then, I’m so simple minded that I can’t figure someone out owning the right to use a piece of software, but not owning the right to have it on his hard disk. ‘Sounds really inconvenient. It’s looking like this old timer best go back to old open source Linux and leave the Brave New World of Microsoft Windows 7 to smarter folks who are able to wrestle with these new concepts. I’d forgotten the joys of being in an environment where the issues of who owns what were not so terribly important to everyone. Everything that I have posted in this thread is fully copylefted!

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In Windows 7 being a member of the administrative group does NOT mean you have unfettered access to the machine. See Configuring Windows 7 for a Limited User Account for a description of the Administrator account.

Have you logged in with the account named “Administrator”?

Joe

--Joe

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I concede, there are a few instances where one needs to “Run as Administrator”. But those are rare instances, certainly not something that needs to happen daily. I didn’t consider those instances in my response because they don’t become a hindrance in day to day computing. Not in my job, nor on my home systems. Even logging in as Administrator does not give complete unfettered access. There are some folders that are locked out by design, but can be accessed if one takes ownership. There are also process that run as the System account and cannot be killed or changed without a few “back door” maneuvers. Not insurmountable, but not what I would consider unfettered in light of this discussion. I have also run into instances where installing a component on a Windows server, logged in with the local Administrator’s account (not my own) where I still had to right click and select “Run as Administrator”. Never on a Win 7 PC though, but don’t doubt that it could occur there to.

So Bob, you are correct, you can’t just turn it off. Not completely anyway. However, for all practical purposes, you will find that if you turn off the UAC, you can do most everything you need to do unhindered. As I said, I find it very rare to actually need true admin access.

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