Can Windows Update status mess up your Windows activation?

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Just got this from Leo the Lion… “I have an installation that had both Windows update and BITS disabled. After 9 months or so, I got an activation n
[See the full post at: Can Windows Update status mess up your Windows activation?]

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Large OEM manufacturers have a unique master key assigned to their brand which is used on their images. In addition, another key which is on the sticker attached can be used by the end user to activate in case there is a reinstall. It is also possible for the end user to use the master key which is tied to the BIOS of the computer, but this is not obvious and require a procedure which is not clear if is accepted by Microsoft.
For any other version of Windows 7 (non-OEM), the rules of activation cannot change now.
However, if Microsoft decided to do a change in Windows 10 and this is entirely possible, it is still to be proved either by experience or supported by published documentation. It is just too early to say. Another reason to avoid Windows 10 for a while longer, except for experimentation.

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I have no added insight to offer, but many of us figured that Microsoft would allow delaying updates to Win 10 only so long–that they probably would have some way of forcing the issue and updates eventually. Authorization could be their mechanism.

I’m updating Win10 as Woody advises, about 28 days after release–the Anniversary update excepted–for now, but expect to update to Anniversary in the foreseeable future, once Microsoft fixes the hot mess.

But if avoiding updates to Windows, whether to 10, 8, and/or 7, becomes impossible after some number of months, that could be the dagger that finally forces many of us to permanently flee Windows.

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dear me…. SO? Im not crazy imagining things?

😀

Wait until they send you to the phone activation,
put you on hold for hours,
then a Indian tech person insist you MUST hook him up with remote desktop,
and …. question you why you need to re-activate as if you are a criminal
and if you survive?!

you win a prize – better software and stronger security, added unauthorized ‘bonus’ !!!!
against the user to ‘leave’ the designated happy ending,
as per the licensing agreement nobody read,
and

😀

Not to mention hardware fingerprint test…

Anyway the very-thought-out fun is deeper than any rabbit hole…

The only way out it seems so is …. !

But again if that is too hard or impossible or not right now,
or rather, not painful enough,
anyone of us could have just closed our eyes/mouth/mind
see nothing,
say nothing,
know nothing…

and let them do their ‘job’
and that still be a valid choice, for some. truly yours.

after all we all paid dearly, but probably not enough for billy is an angel, to be ‘A USER”.

We just dont need to know we are being used, quietly (and not so quietly now a days)…. Its all for fun ;D and OMG! lucky we, the user, the toy.

dear me… ranting crazies again….
be well

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Clarification: This was not my experience. The quoted passage is from a poster from another site. Sorry, I should have included the source => Wilderssecurity.

My apologies, Leo the Lion.

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Users who tolerate accept and comply with Ms policies get only what they deserve.

I wonder why no lawyer has filed a class action suit. Could be a bonanza.

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@Leo the Lion Regardless of whose experience this was, it is an interesting issue to discuss.

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Someone please correct me if I’m wrong, but ever since WAY back (KB971033 in Win 7 IIRC) Windows checks in with the mothership to determine if it is allowed to remain activated.

There are always scheduled jobs that hover a few days out. Hammers ready to drop under the right conditions? What are those conditions?

The part that always worried me a bit is that Microsoft could deem your license invalid for any reason it chooses (not to mention database error or some hackers having chosen your number to fool with or ???) and poof, your perfectly good and valid system could just stop working.

Never lose sight of the fact that virtually everyone is in violation of SOME part of the Services Agreement under SOME interpretation.

-Noel

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If this turns out to be confirmed, then a rare use case becomes very difficult: Long term offline workstations that act as either dedicated controllers (where updates are feared) or field working computers. I know that’s a vanishing breed, but I still have to support two of them.

~ Group "Weekend" ~

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+1

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@anonymous/Noel,

Do you know what exactly would have to be turned off by the computer owner in order to block Windows’ checking to see if it is allowed to remain activated?

I am asking because I want to make sure that that in my attempts to stop Windows Update from connecting to my computer, I have not inadvertently turned off a service that does the Windows activation checking.

(Or, perhaps I could have inadvertently blocked Windows activation checking via Peerblock — several odd, insistent IPs are being blocked frequently by my Peerblock these days.)

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Oops, now I see that it’s clearly mentioned in the original post that the suspects are BITS and Windows Update service.

Are those the only suspects?

I have never altered my BITS setting, but in the past few weeks I’ve had the Windows Update service set on “disabled”.

Just now, I’ve turned Windows Update back on, to “manual”, just to make sure that if MS needs to talk to my computer through it, MS can get through. I wouldn’t want to have them shut down my activation.

Right now both my BITS and Windows Update are on “manual” — is that a workable choice, or is “automatic” better for not getting on the wrong side of Microsoft regarding the various statuses they regularly connect to the computer in order to check up on?

(I already have Windows Update – within Windows Update itself – set on “never check”.)

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I’ve been using Advanced Tokens Manager for the past couple of years to save my Windows 7 activation and restore it on a clean install.

http://joshcellsoftwares.com/products/advancedtokensmanager/

(Oh – thought I’d better mention this only works for genuine copies of Windows).

Might be a solution for W7 machines that are kept offline permanently if their activation status suddenly becomes invalid for whatever reason.

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Noel, I find it interesting that while KB971033 is offered on Windows Update for Windows 7 Enterprise, it has never been checked by default since its release. It was checked for the other versions though. WSUS has never offered KB971033. Wouldn’t those 2 facts indicate that KB971033 is entirely optional and not required?

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– @ Anon re KB971033

That was not quite the same as the KMS style check-in that Leo reported. Then, your system would check against certain system changes that might indicate a hacked activation, and there was suspicion that there might have been a blacklisted set of keys . . . although MS likely stopped doing that. If that system never ever check in, it would happily continue running.

Think of it as a passive check when possible.

Today’s reveal indicates that known good active licenses might require an activation check to stay happy. A non-passive check if you will.

KMS for my clients requires a regular check-in from all clients to keep Windows Enterprise, the Office suite, “happy” . . . it can be hosted on site for large networks, or in the cloud, or by MS.

More info:
Understanding KMS
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff793434.aspx

~ Group "Weekend" ~

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Wish I’d known about that years ago. However, I’ve tried to do full drive copies (on healthy systems) using Clonezilla on a regular basis. Either one, looks like a major hardware change can be problematic. I hate having to start from scratch.

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IME, kb971033 is offered as an ‘important’ update for Windows 7 Professional, although it is unchecked in the list.

Probably not germane to the original topic, but… I recently exercised downgrade rights on a laptop, going from win10 pro to win7 pro. The phone activation procedure was completely automated, no human being on the other end. When I had all the numbers typed in, I clicked the ‘activate’ button at which time the activation succeeded and kb971033 was *immediately* downloaded and installed, with no possibility of intervention on my part.

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is this another way of boosting flagging over the counter sales? ie bought the disk, bought the key its yours now! theres no denying they have taken a huge hit over the win10 ongoing giveaway. I really dont want to worry folk but a little research has revealed that XP SP1 wiped out a whole range of keys that were “ahem!” less than 100% M$ approved and while our merry little band of update upstarts in here were focused on the malevaelent effects and “snooping” of updates we may have neglected to look for a (x-files consp. fans only) “kill switch” that may have “snook” in there as well or could be at a later date. Some of the older Admins in here will remember the old server console msg and shutdown app that used to come with the resource kit was it NT4 or Win2k servers? so the technology is out there. a foray in to the music downloading scene reveals that there is a large swathe of windows on offer in varying states of activation and flavours. so it may well be that ole M$ is trying to not only rein in its “piracy problem” but on a more sininister, and certainly annoying, note paving the way for use windows connected or lose it. Probably some way down the line if your fully compliant with the “patched programme” you can say hello to forced advertising which will be all too “irresistable” look at win 7-8.1 the GWX affair, 1607 u/d deletes the business app in favour of more “crudware” in the post apocalyptic win10 era a trip to the store maybe a little more costly than 5mins delay after entering the “wsreset” cmd to revive yet another reluctant app just a thought folks hope this never comes to pass but for those windoze refugees to the safe haven of Linux, if the big “L” ever does make it to the big time be sure the advertsing “gremlins” will track you down there eventually 🙂

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It’s certainly optional on MY Win 7 systems, and I haven’t had a problem yet. But I’ll wager most have it installed.

It hasn’t been more than about 4 months since any of my systems were allowed to contact sls.update.microsoft.com. This is new territory for me.

-Noel

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In Windows 7, Windows Update is Automatic (Delayed). BITS does not really matter as it changes state as needed. I think it is controlled by Windows Update, but this is just a guess.
The discussion about activation is mostly related to Windows 10 as the original poster presented it. I am not expecting to have any impact on Windows 7.

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Windows Update and BITS services both set to disabled and both to Start & Automatic should I call Windows Update. Both will not be set to ‘manual’ for the sake of Microsoft’s fantasies.

I’m already on the border-line when it comes to this Windows 7 OS, one push — one — from Microsoft and the whole company, OS included, will be sent to garbage. And I don’t give the slightest damn if this move wouldn’t bother the company because bothering the company is not my aim : I linger only to stop being bothered by it.

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I have an older Lenovo laptop with Windows 8 given to me by a relative, since upgraded to Windows 8.1 Update.

I had found that if I switched on the laptop without internet access, sometimes the Windows activation status became “Non-activated”. When I connected the computer to the internet and rebooted, Windows became activated again. I have no idea why the Windows activation status can change, especially on a laptop that is supposed to run “Genuine” Windows.

I have no idea if my experience is related to the issue here, but I thought I should report this.

Hope for the best. Prepare for the worst.

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KMS activation is not permanent, it only lasts 180 days, this is by design
and can be renewed in any time (default is weekly)
MAK however, is the permanent activation for volume licenses

KMS activation require connecting to KMS host server, not Microsoft

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Based on the comment from Leo and this one from Net Def
‘Today’s reveal indicates that known good active licenses might require an activation check to stay happy. A non-passive check if you will.’..

I’m now getting worried that community laptops that I upgraded to 10 and subsequently downgraded to 7 ( for stability reasons amongst others) will not activate on Windows 10 in 2020, due to not having been re-activated on 10 for 3.5 years.

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Two weeks ago I turned off Windows Update service. Since then, I have been receiving daily (and, on occasion, twice daily) notifications that my legitimately paid-for Windows 7 Home Ultimate is “not genuine”. Re-enabling Windows Update service reverses this.

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I decided I was in Group A for Win Update…. so, I applied all outstanding updates. Went well, but a few days later, and now Windows keeps asking me to activate Windows. I’ve tried about a dozen times, but keep getting the message “Windows can’t activate. Try again later”

Why is this happening? any particular update I should uninstall? Any suggestions welcomed and appreciated

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Regarding the topic of activation and KB971033, I recall a controversy regarding XBox One when it first came out. Microsoft required connection to the internet for XBox One to check back to the mothership within I believe every 24 to 48 hours, which caused a backlash.

Can’t help but wonder if Microsoft has something similar in Windows 10 they are using or will use when they one day decide to turn it “on”.

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No idea. Simplest solution is to call the phone activation number and state your case.

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Regarding KB971033 and the taskscheduler associated with it (under WAC). Is it safe to disable the task? The tasks seem to be about checking with the MS quarterly. Or am I better off having the patch uninstalled instead? I admit to be afraid of doing that, preferring to just disable the task if that is safer.

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my 2cents –

I feel for you buddy…

KEEP CALM and think through what happen b4 the problem….

was there a hardware changes? driver changes? or firewall changes?

you need that KB mentioned
+ turn off AV – firewall
+ turn on WU and BITS
+ restore back to when it last worked (could help)
+ restart

then try to activate online again – if you have not exceed 3 times b4

If you have exceeded 3 times, then its auto phone activation (works 1-2 times), then that too will fail

and you need to speak to a tech and I have no idea what will transpire from then on (I flatly reject the dude connecting remote desktop to mine or sell me W100 or W10000)

I had that problem just few months back (and post here too),
but at the time I figured as long as I can still use my machine, who cares?

So it dragged out for 32 days, i try daily to activate online several times,
I suspect their end maybe stuff up sometimes too,
or maybe there is a quote from their end how many can be re-activated daily???

anyway it was around the switch over to 10 promo,
so i figured many would need to re-activate when switch back

anyhow if you have time, they will tell you how many days left, just keep trying

If you dont want to talk to the tech,
maybe as last resort – try clean installation

If you search online, you may find some other “magic” unofficial fix, of which of course its up to you to try and risk “whatever should happen form then on”
or stay on the prescribed course as per what they want you to go through.

4me after the successful activation one fine day,
I turn everything back to as I wanted (except firewall)

and since its has successfully alerted me to have a fully functioning activation-free-OS-L ready to take over…

its clear such unreliable paid software cannot be my main machine – unworthy and unsightly sad crap nobody should waste more time “saving” it

p.s the little magic tool mention here could be interesting – wish I had knew years earlier – and the uncleaner is awesome too 🙂

What business is their end if I want to clean install every 6 months? or every month? or every week?
Some feel the need for speed…
I FEEL THE NEED TO BE CLEAN!

Good luck all who need re-activation 🙂
(or just switch out of W to non-W once and for all)

hv a good wkend ppl 🙂

Peace,

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Actually, the original poster did present the issue of this possibly happening in the future with his (and everyone else’s) Windows 7 installations.

Indeed, my main takeaway from the question was not that this is happening to Windows 10 machines, but that this might be something that Microsoft is planning in the future to extend to Windows 7/8, because the original poster said “it should raise alarm bells” because Microsoft is trying to make ALL their operating systems, both old and new, comply to a SINGLE model:

From the second paragraph:
“If Microsoft is enforcing ‘something like KMS’ on W10 if a user disables WU and BITs, it should raise alarm bells because the MS strategy is to have all MS OS’s comply to a single model under Windows as a Service.”

From the third paragraph:
“With the introduction of the the October 2016 Update Policy for W7/8 many users are interested in Group B.
Like us, we will be disabling WU and BITs.
I would be shocked if we received an activation notice on W7/8 systems after having chosen this route.
All but one of our systems have OEM W7 licenses (only one is retail).
Reactivating an OEM license is the pits.”

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@Steven Interesting, thanks for the feedback.
So this means that KB971033 is still used in some scenarios and not abandoned completely as it is commonly believed.

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@Nd60 – Thanks. There were no hardware/driver/software/firewall changes – only Win Update.

Rather than trying to work out what caused the problem, the non-techo me decided it was probably quicker to call M$oft support, explain the situation, and ask for reactivation.

A 40 minute phone call to M$oft AUS, phone redirection to India, and the Indian agent remoting in to my laptop, it was found that service that monitors activation had been corrupted (can’t remember which one it was – the agent was working too quickly and randomly (?) for me to catch the name!)

This reactivation caused the licence key to change from my original one.

But all seems well (for now at least).

Cheers,
Steve

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I leave my Windows 10 Pro on my laptop unused until we go to MS Defcon 3 or 4 every month. Never disabled any updates services, but instead used wushowhide and a GPE change to control updates timing. Rarely if ever go without applying updates more than one month.

No activation problems.

So it must be disabling the updates service which trips the activation triggger, not the time between uses.

The rest of the time I use Linux for every day computing needs. Microsoft seems to have no issues with this.

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I, too, would like to know if it is thought to be safe to deliberately uninstall KB971033 (from my main machine, where it snuck in earlier). It’s not on any of my experimental machines, and I don’t want to install it on one of those and then wait for two machines to be blocked next month. I will be grateful if anyone can guess as to the outcome. (Smile.)

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I am wondering about MS Office validation.

Out of principle, when I had my Win 7 I refused to install the optional Microsoft Office File Validation Add-in for MS Office 2007. When good old Windows 7 died, I put MS 2007 on my wretched Win 10. Although it showed up, I was using the metered trick for updates on my Home version of 10 and hid it the validation add-in. Will there be a day I am going to be sorry I did this due to all this need of MS to validate everything?

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Apologies if I’m repeating what others have posted. Too many walls of text to go through with unhelpful information.

BITS Info Here:
http://www.blackviper.com/windows-services/background-intelligent-transfer-service/

It is necessary for Windows Update to work and should be kept on ‘Manual’ mode. It will start and stop as needed.

As far as activation, it won’t bother me as I’m personally techie-enough to bypass it and my parents were already moved over to Linux Mint as soon as WinXP support died off (they absolutely love it btw).

I’ll have to connect to WiFi and use WireShark to really get a feel for what is being connected to but I don’t believe any pre-September computers will be affected.

Now people will either accept the ‘security-only’ updates or they’ll forgo any updates altogether. I find this a sad state of affairs but that’s how M$ has done it.

I only ever use Win7 for gaming and Linux Mint for any real/sensitive work (via an encrypted VPN). I regularly change my MAC address about once a week or so because Linux lets me do that easily 😉

We have seen the writing on the wall for some time now so we all have to choose to either stay with unpatched Win7/Win8.1 or plug into the matrix with Win10 and ‘deal with it’.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/875/188/08e.gif

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