Cannot send email from Thunderbird 91.2.1 (32-bit)

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I can receive email fine,but every time I try sending an email,I get an error msg: Sending of the message failed. The message could not be sent because the connection to Outgoing server (SMTP) mail.shaw.ca timed out. Try again.  I have checked and rechecked my mail acct settings to no avail. This started 24Oct21. I am running Avast! free AV,which I shut down to test if that was an issue. A volunteer on the Mozilla website tried helping,but so far no luck. Recently updated TB to 91.2.1 (32-bit). Plse advise,thanks!

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I’m currently using TB 91.2.1 with Outgoing server (SMTP) outbound.att.net and it works fine. Using 3 different inbound POP servers (hotmail, outlook, at&t).

Did TB work prior to your upgrade to 91.2.1? Did you change any settings (e.g. port)?

I’m getting a reply when I ping mail.shaw.ca from my location. Do you?

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Hi Carl: TB worked great until the 24th,I recall,when I got the 91.2.1 upgrade. Not that tech savvy,I just know there is about a minute delay when I press “send”, and then I get a pop-up saying: Sending of the message failed. The message could not be sent because the connection to Outgoing server (SMTP) mail.shaw.ca timed out. Try again. Thanks

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First, let’s verify that you can reach the mail server.

1) Right click “Start” and select “Command Prompt”
2) Type “ping mail.shaw.ca” (no quotes) and press the Enter key

If you receive a reply (4 times), make a note of the “Approximate round trip times” average and “% loss” above it before closing the Command Prompt window.

If you do receive a reply, then you know the server is reachable from your computer. If this is the case, then you need to look at the following:

1) TB outbound server port and security settings, and/or
2) Possible changes made by your mail provider.

It’s not unheard of for mail providers to change authentication methods and ports for example. Go to the mail provider’s web site and check for any updates to inbound/outbound server settings for mail clients.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Oldtimer

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Hi Carl: got the attached reply.

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Reply to all who have kindly offered advice on my Tbird sending issue:  It was and is the ISP’s fault ! I called them recently,and the agent I talked with told me I wasn’t the first person to complain about this issue,and actually gave me an incident # they are working on! I guess there is no practical way of lighting a fire under the backsides of the ISP to expedite the issue? Earlier this year,I suddenly could send emails with my Tbird,but a few months later,the problem arose again!

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Have the security requirements changed on the new FF? or the mail server?

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Hi Carl. I got the attached when I pinged Shaw.

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Just tested from Israel.

You seem to have a DNS problem (your ISP , VPN, ) change DNS OR check network settings.

Run tracert 64.59.136.142

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Oldtimer

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Alex5723 wrote:

Just tested from Israel.

You seem to have a DNS problem (your ISP , VPN, ) change DNS OR check network settings.

Run tracert 64.59.136.142

Thanks, Carl. I don’t have a VPN,just Sandboxie,which I shut off when investigating this matter. At least you have given me a lead,which I am grateful for. My outgoing server seems to be configured correctly. At least I can receive mail,which I respond to on my Hotmail account.

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I think I may be confused. Your hotmail account works, but not your other account? I did an NSLookup on “mail.shaw.ca” which led me to Shaw Cable.

Shaw Email Support

Below are my TB settings for HotMail and what I think your Shaw TB settings should be for authenticated outgoing and encrypted incoming.

1) HotMail

Outgoing SMTP Server: smtp.office365.com
Port: 587
Connection Security: STARTTLS
Authentication Meth: Normal password

Server Settings
Type: POP
Name: outlook.office365.com
Port: 995
User: xxxxx@hotmail.com
Connection Security: SSL/TLS
Authentication Meth: Normal password

2) Shaw (you)

Outgoing SMTP Server: mail.shaw.ca
Port: 587
Connection Security: STARTTLS
Authentication Meth: Normal password

Server Settings
Type: POP
Name: pop.shaw.ca
Port: 995
Connection Security: SSL/TLS
Authentication Meth: Normal password

If HotMail works with the settings above, then it’s not a firewall issue for Shaw (or TB if you have an application firewall).

If you use the Shaw outgoing mail settings above, then you’ll have to provide a password. TB will allow you to save the password so that you don’t need to enter it each time you send mail.

If you use the settings below for the outgoing Shaw server, you won’t need a password.

Outgoing SMTP Server: mail.shaw.ca
Port: 25
Connection Security: none
Authentication Meth: No authentication

I don’t recommend this as you’ll be sending everything in plain text. As a side note, most cable ISPs block port 25 for email.

Also, I think only old folk like us are the only ones still using POP. (:

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Oldtimer

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Thanks,Carl,we are on the same page as far as server settings goes. I double-checked and applied the suggested settings without luck. Got the same old time out error. I just downloaded and am running Malwarebytes on the off-chance I have picked up a virus.

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Well,Malwarebytes found no malware,just some PUPs which I quarantined just in case. Back to square one. What I don’t understand is why TB cannot communicate with the Shaw servers when the correct ports are being used.

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Hi @Oldtimer !

Sorry to interject here but, it sounds as if your computer has been “firewalled” from reaching the Shaw mail server it’s supposed to. This is shown in the results of the ping command you ran.

To see just where things are failing, run the tracert command as noted by Alex in post 2398672 above. At an elevated command prompt as you did for the ping command, type the following and hit Enter: “tracert 64.59.136.142” , but omit the quote marks, of course.

If the tracert shows a failure in the first hop, then the problem is on your computer, and this suggests that either Avast has either blocked the connection in its own firewall or it has blocked the connection with settings in Windows’ built-in firewall. I know you said that you turned off Avast temporarily to try testing Thunderbird but, in my experience with its “sister” product from AVG, this action sometimes didn’t shut down its firewall, only the antivirus process in memory.

I used AVG’s free antivirus when I has Windows 7 until last year and had it from when it was on its own through when they merged with Avast but tried staying a “separate”company. On Windows 10, I’ve been using Windows’ built in AV solution, Microsoft Defender.

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@Oldtimer –

One note that I forgot to include in my post just above is that if you do perform the tracert test, please allow the test to run to completion which may take up to three or four minutes over a maximum of 30 hops. Let it go till it says its done, then post the screenshot of those results here for us to see.

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[Bob99]

Very interesting…I just got two different results for a tracert to the same location:

When I did a tracert to the IP address of mail.shaw.ca (the one that is mentioned in Alex’s post above and that shows in Oldtimer’s ping results screenshot), I got a timeout after the 9th hop until the test finished.

However, when I did a tracert to mail.shaw.ca, I got a complete test after only 12 hops, with no timeouts from any one of the hops.

After the second test, I verified that the tests were going to the same IP address for their destination, despite the different command line entries.

So, my new advice is to do a

“tracert mail.shaw.ca”

command (without the quotes, of course) and see what you get for results and post them here.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Bob99. Reason: add clarity to the command's syntax to add a space that was missing

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Hi Bob99 Just got in from raking,and found your post. Here is the tracert that just completed.

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Oldtimer wrote:

What I don’t understand is why TB cannot communicate with the Shaw servers when the correct ports are being used.

After your ping test, isn’t the question why your computer can’t contact the Shaw mail server?

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Hi Carl. Sorry for any confusion. I mentioned Hotmail because that gives me full outbound and inbound email through Outlook.com. My Shaw account is a separate email service/ISP provider,and right now,it can only receive emails. I am using Thunderbird as my client email program for Shaw mail. I phoned Shaw,but they cannot help me with 3rd party programs like Tbird. Shaw has their own webmail service (which works fine-I checked earlier today) that is the same account as the one I run Tbird on,which doesn’t help with my Tbird problem. Shaw webmail is handy if I am staying out of town,and can go to the Shaw website to check for messages. I don’t carry a smart phone,only an old “pay as you go” flip phone for emergencies when on the road. There are plenty of companies here who can straighten it out for a fee. Being a skinflint,I have been trying to fix it on the cheap.

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Try the settings above in Thunderbird. The link is from the Shaw website and shows the settings to use (ignore the fact that it says Android only).

If you want to set up POP using TB for your outlook account, then you specifically have to enable POP use on the MS outlook.com site. Then in TB use these settings:

Outgoing SMTP Server: smtp-mail.outlook.com
Port: 587
Connection Security: STARTTLS
Authentication Meth: Normal password

Server Settings
Type: POP
Name: outlook.office365.com
Port: 995
User: xxxxx@outlook.com

Thunderbird works with all mail servers though there have been reports of problems with MS Exchange mail servers. Originally, I had set up my Outlook account on TB to use IMAP, but I’m now retired (disabled) and no longer a road warrior with a remote office so I switched it back to POP in TB (MS discourages this).

Like you, I use a cell only for voice, so no need for sync.

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Oldtimer

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It may be possible to analyze everything to locate and correct a specific error, but it likely is more time-efficient to just isolate to the minimum ‘LRU’ and replace it. Perhaps you’ve already done one or more of these?

1. In Thunderbird: Delete the SMTP account, and redefine it.
Determines if problem is with this specific account definition.

2. Still with Thunderbird: Create a new Profile, and define the SMTP account.
Determines if problem is with fouled profile, outside of the SMTP account.

3. Have you another email client that you can test with: Outlook, … ?
Determines if problem is outside of TB, at the computer (or above) level.

Further diagnostic/testings available depending upon results of above.

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[Bob99]

Hi Paul!

Just to help the troubleshooting along just a bit:

In post 2398528 above in response to Carl, @Oldtimer attached a screenshot showing that that pinging the Shaw mail server failed. Ping is a function of Windows, so I think the problem might be outside of anything within T’Bird, which I also use as my daily driver for email. 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Bob99.

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Bob: Thank you. You are quite right. I hadn’t looked at all the screen shots.

I shouldn’t think that a TB change could set a Windows restriction. Perhaps this was a coincidence, and there was some other concurrent change, not considered?

So, where should he be looking: Windows Firewall settings? If so, what?
Router setting? I can’t find anything related in my old router.

The third item down in the TB 92.2.1 Release Notes is DNS-related. But could it induce this error?

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When I read the aforementioned release notes, the third item down mentions a DSN fault that was fixed when editing a message that’s being forwarded as a new message. Pardon the ignorance, seriously, but how does DSN when editing a message tie in with DNS?

I Googled DSN, and it stands for Data Source Name in writing programs from what I can tell.

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PaulK

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Bob: Re: DNS vs DSN. Old-age dyslexia. Release 0.0.0.1Beta. sigh.

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Hi Bob99: Well,uninstalling Avast! Free did not help. I just ran the trace per your suggestion,and got the same result.

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Firefox has recently made DNS over https the default. This changed the DNS from the local ISP to Cloudflare.
Thunderbird has also pushed a recent update to Thunderbird to version 91.2.1. Is T-Bird using DNS over https , therefore Cloudflare? Both are Mozilla.

Could either of these had the effect you are seeing?

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Yep, it seems TB 91 does support DOH using Cloudflare (Preferences -> Connection settings). Unlike FF, I don’t think it’s enabled by default. If it is, then router DNS settings are ignored. Hmmm ….

What’s interesting is the 2nd trace route @Oldtimer posted late afternoon today which failed. Hopefully, just temporary ….

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[Bob99]

@PaulK and @PKCano –

I use T’Bird and have for a long time. The version I’m currently using is 91.2.1, like @Oldtimer . I can successfully ping the Shaw mail server with no issues at all, so I don’t think the problem lies within T’Bird. I am also using FF 93.0 in addition to T’Bird and have noted what PK said above about the DNS changes.

It’s my personal belief that if the DNS changes within Mozilla’s products had anything to do with @Oldtimer ‘s issue, I would also have a hard time reaching the Shaw mail server. However, I have had no problems, having a typical round trip time of 62 milliseconds.

I have read over Mozilla’s info about their DNS changes dealing with DoH, and I incorporated them into the settings within about:config when they were first described several months ago.

This leads me to think that @Oldtimer ‘s issue lies within the Avast installation’s settings or within the Windows Firewall settings, either of which may have been changed inadvertently by Avast or another program that may have been temporarily installed and is now removed.

However, I also realize that the problem may also lie along the path from Oldtimer’s location to the Shaw server, hence why I asked Oldtimer to perform a tracert test (in my post above) as initially suggested by Alex5723 in post 2398672, which is a response to Oldtimer’s ping test results.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Bob99.
• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Bob99.

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FWIW,I just checked my Windows Firewall settings,and Tbird is not on the allowed program list,which doesn’t make sense,as I am receiving email normally.

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I just noticed that you tried tracert earlier and it failed. Is Shaw the only account you use in TB? Is Windows controlling your firewall or is your AV program?

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Hi Carl: I only know that I looked in Windows Firewall,and didn’t see Tbird listed as an allowed app. Yes,I am getting mail from MS Hotmail- just sent myself a test email. I deleted Avast! on the chance it was involved,but that didn’t change anything. Attaching the tracert per your request.

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Everybody has made some great suggestions, so let’s put them all together and try to isolate the your problem. I suggest doing a simple test by creating a fake Shaw account in TB.

Why do this? Process of elimination. As @Bob99 mentioned, we first need to determine if TB can talk to the mail server and if not, what’s preventing it from doing so (i.e. av/firewall, router, corrupt install, etc).

Do this in TB:

1) Tools -> Account Settings
2) In the “Account Actions” drop-down on the left select “Add Mail Account”
3) Full name “John Smith” and Email address “jsmith@shaw.ca”
4) Leave the password field blank and uncheck “Remember password”
5) Click “Continue” (do not manually configure)

Thunderbird will now try and obtain mail server information automatically by trying common server names. This may take a minute or two. If successful, you’ll see a green message stating “Configuration found …”. If not, the message will be “Thunderbird failed to find the settings …”.

Don’t worry about messing anything up. I created a dummy account (jdoe@shaw.ca) using the auto-setup wizard in TB (instead of manual setup). TB obtained and correctly configured the outbound server settings automatically. It configured the inbound POP server using unsecured port 110, but this can be easily changed.

Anyway, I then composed an email and attempted to send it. TB connected to mail.shaw.ca which then prompted for a password. When I submitted a fake password using my fake “jdoe” user name, the mail server promptly rejected it as expected.

Note: I’m on the east coast and it takes 12 hops (91ms last hop) from here to Shaw. I did notice that I get routed through a Shaw business router prior to the hand-off to the mail servers – probably because of IPv6.

Let us know how your “fake account” test goes.

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Hi Carl: Worked like a charm! My next question is how do I take advantage of this? Thanks very,very much,by the way!

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Super good news! You’ve just proven that TB is working and is able to talk to the Shaw mail server. Also demonstrated that DNS is OK else TB wouldn’t have been able to find inbound/outbound servers.

Hold on and I’ll put together some next steps.

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Here we go ……

Before you start, make sure you have your valid Shaw password handy. Also, you have to decide if you want to use POP or IMAP. I’m a stubborn, old school, tin-foil hat, retired govt agency guy who doesn’t like anything “cloudy” or “social” so I use POP for my personal accounts and IMAP for business.

First, I want you to delete your existing Shaw account in TB.

1) Tools -> Account Settings
2) Highlight your existing TB Shaw account on the left.
3) In the “Account Actions” drop-down on the left select “Remove Mail Account”

Next you’re going to recreate your account by selecting “Add Mail Account” in the “Account Actions” drop-down on the left. You can choose to enter your password here and have TB save it now if desired. Pick either IMAP or POP and you’re good to go. Let TB do it’s thing.

TB should automatically set your outbound server settings like this:

Outgoing SMTP Server: mail.shaw.ca
Port: 587
Connection Security: STARTTLS
Authentication Meth: Normal password

Let me know if you get this far.

(Sorry – it takes me time to type. I have Parkinson’s disease)

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Thanks,Carl,I will try in the morning.

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Before deleting your existing account, do this:

1) Tools -> Account Settings
2) Find your existing TB Shaw account on the left.
3) Highlight “Server” under your account on the left.
4) On the right at the bottom, make a note of the “Local Directory” path

At the end of the Local Directory path, you’ll see something like “pop.shaw.ca”.

IMPORTANT

When you delete the existing account, MAKE SURE that “Remove message data” is unchecked (this is the default). This will retain any any existing email on your computer.

After you re-create your account, you’ll follow the same steps as above. You’ll note that the “Local Directory” is slightly different now. It will probably end with something like “pop.shaw.ca-1”. Change the path to match what you had in step 4 above.

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Ah wait …. I just looked at your TB attachment again. For some reason, Shaw is telling TB to use unencrypted SMTP. This means your settings may look like:

Outgoing SMTP Server: mail.shaw.ca
Port: 25
Connection Security: none
Authentication Meth: Normal password

We don’t want this as this may be the cause of your troubles. Don’t fret – this is easy to fix afterwards. Sneaky, sneaky, bad, bad, Shaw Cable – you’ve been outed (I’ll explain later – they didn’t do this to me because I use IPv6).

Back in the AM …

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Um – hold on a minute or six.

Deleting an email account, even when ‘Remove message data’ is unchecked, also clears normal TB access to the existing POPed emails. One then must use Explorer to move (and perhaps rename?) the files into the new account mail folder(s).

Perhaps: Edit the existing SMTP definition to be similar to

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@PaulK Yes. You are correct. I’m working on the assumption that his original profile may have become corrupted when he upgraded from an earlier version of TB. Therefore, my reasoning for recreating the account as opposed to modifying the existing.

I’ve added further instructions to clarify this in post 2399040

He was able to create a dummy account, so we know that TB can communicate with the Shaw mail server from his location. I’m thinking that we let him recreate the account first by using the TB wizard. It appears that TB will grab port 25 for outbound from shaw.ca (unencrypted) – not the expected settings, but valid.

Shaw Email Support

How To: Set up your Shaw email

When I create a Shaw account from my location using the wizard, TB select 587 SMTP and 995 for POP (993 for IMAP). I think I know why, but we can fix that later.

There’s something strange happening on his end, so please keep on this with me.

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He was able to create a dummy account, so we know that TB can communicate with the Shaw mail server from his location.

So how do you explain his failed pings and tracert to the Shaw mail server at mail.shaw.ca? The tracert didn’t even make it to Oltimer’s router which is the first hop of any tracert command.

I would think that tracert failing at the first hop would indicate that something outside of T’Bird is blocking any connection attempts from within the Windows “ecosystem” on that particular computer.

Could it be that the configurations that T’Bird goes out and finds on its own during setup of an accoount are stored on Mozilla servers dedicated to T’Bird’s use for looking up pre-defined settings for different email providers that Mozilla may have received directly from said providers?

Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s great that Oldtimer has been able to create a “fake” profile as you suggested, but I wonder if it will have full functionality, given the posted results of the pings and tracert command.

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Bob, you are also correct. As I said above, something strange is happening on his end. When he did the trace route, the IP resolved to Shaw, so I was expecting that at minimum, the 1st hop should have been successful to his gateway (192.168.x.x).

By creating a clean profile, I’m betting initially, TB won’t be able to send mail. I’m trying to eliminate TB config as a source of the problem before we try and tackle more complex issues.

I don’t follow TB development closely, so I can’t be certain about how the setup wizard works. Either way, it seems Windows Firewall isn’t blocking TB from accessing remote resources.

Oldtimer mentioned above that he uninstalled Avast. Hopefully this isn’t causing an issue with the networking stack.

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Bob, I just did the following:

1) Loaded a port monitor app
2) Created a fake shaw.ca account in TB

TB does indeed make multiple requests to 64.59.136.142 to obtain settings. Strange, huh?

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No kidding! WOW! Things that make ya go hmmph!

To boot, look at the settings shown in Oltimer’s post number 2398951. The settings retrieved for outgoing mail (smtp.shaw.ca) don’t even show up on the Shaw support page you’ve linked to previously. HOWEVER, when I tried pinging smtp.shaw.ca, it returned the very same IP address as the mail.shaw.ca server!! Same goes for pop.shaw.ca, it goes to the same IP address of 64.59.136.142!

Really weird, Oldtimer can’t ping it (the request doesn’t even leave the computer from what is shown in the tracert results above in a couple of posts) but yet T’Bird can somehow get settings from it.

At this point, I think it might be worth it for Oldtimer to change mail settings from POP to IMAP, and see what happens if there’s no joy with deleting and “reinstalling” the Shaw mail profile.

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I’m as baffled as you Bob. Doesn’t make sense.

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Oldtimer wrote:

I only know that I looked in Windows Firewall,and didn’t see Tbird listed as an allowed app.

Have you corrected that?
I think Incoming mail would not necessarily be blocked except for authentication but that would have shut down the ability to get mail.

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Oldtimer wrote:

Attaching the tracert

TraceRT could reach your router/gateway so something in your network configuration is in fault.
Run ipconfig.

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Alex5723 wrote:

TraceRT could reach your router/gateway

not?

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Slow down guys. The last trace route he did, he was unable to reach his gateway on the 1st hop. It did resolve to mail.shaw.ca. Not good ….

When Oldtimer created a fake account using the TB setup wizard, TB was able to contact mail.shaw.ca (64.59.136.142) to obtain configuration settings. As I said above, I

1) put a port monitor on my system
2) used the TB wizard to create a fake account
3) TB made multiple queries to 64.59.136.142.

When Oldtimer created a fake account, TB displayed the message “Configuration found by trying common server names”. He did not receive an error message at this point. If TB couldn’t contact the mail server, the message would have been “Thunderbird failed to find the settings” and sent him to manual setup (I think).

Oldtimer indicated that he’s not a geek, so let’s try and keep things simple. Eliminate TB config as the problem and then we put our collective big brains together to find out what’s going on the network end.

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[Bob99]

In post 2399067 above you wrote:

Oldtimer mentioned above that he uninstalled Avast. Hopefully this isn’t causing an issue with the networking stack.

If the solution doesn’t wind up somehow being within the T’Bird setup, then the statement above may come into play.

When an anti-crapware suite such as Avast! or AVG (as was my case with Windows 7 a couple of years ago) is uninstalled, one can’t just use the uninstall option in Control Panel or in Settings>Apps. The dedicated uninstaller from the software maker should also be used to clean up what’s invariably left behind, such as system settings and registry entries, that can still affect a system’s performance in very puzzling ways that may not be obvious to the computer user.

First, though, let’s see if Oldtimer can get T’Bird back up and running with a “new” Shaw profile that can both receive and SEND emails. 

• This reply was modified 3 years, 6 months ago by Bob99. Reason: typo correction

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Carl,you guys are amazing. It is Greek to me for the most part,but I really appreciate your efforts. Just been plowing through your theories. The only new thing I have to report is that I have installed the trial version of Malwarebytes,and run several scans which have come up clean.

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At this point, I don’t think you have a virus, though it’s good that you’re checking.

I would remove the trial version of Malwarebytes. You’ll should be fine with Microsoft AV and firewall. By the way, MS makes this stand-alone scanner available:

Microsoft Safety Scanner

It’s updated frequently, so always download the latest version before use.

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Hi Carl:   I am aware of the built in programs in Windows7 like the firewall,but this one is new to me-I assumed a Windows AV was included in the OS. Downloaded and installed it. Just occurred to me that I hadn’t mentioned I have Sandboxie as well,which I have used for many years. I am aware that you have to disable it when making permanent program changes. I am sure it as saved me from some viruses.

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Windows Defender is built into the latest versions of Windows. When you install 3rd party A-V, it steps aside and lets the 3rd party app perform most tasks. Likewise, most A-V suites take over management of the Windows firewall.

When you uninstall A-V (e.g. Avast), Windows Defender takes control so that you have protection.

Windows Defender has come a long way in recent years. It’s very competitive now, unlike what you remember from the Windows 7 days. In fact, most A-V products today are quite comparable because researchers share findings.

To put your mind at ease, you can check some independent research labs that compare A-V products (home products are compared separately from enterprise). Take a look at:

A-V Comparatives – Sep 2021 Test Results

AV-Test – Windows 10 August 2021

You can save a nickel and not install a 3rd party A-V software suite if you don’t need the additional features that a suite can provide (i.e. child content filters, fancy firewall GUI, etc).

The “MS Safety Scanner” above is for one off virus scans only and doesn’t provide real-time protection. Windows Defender does and also has an off-line scan mode.

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Oldtimer

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Windows AV would satisfy me,as I run my browser and email client sandboxed at all times,which gives me two levels of protection. I haven’t had malware issues in decades. Heard that there is new malware that can see it is running in a sandboxed environment,and escape somehow. Oh well…

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More aggregations and comments.
References:
1 – Bob99 – Tracert differences – 2398914
2 – Oldtimer – Tracert total fails – 2398918
3 – Oldtimer – Ping total fail – 2398528
4 – Carl – (2 notes) – 2399075
4.1 – Oldtimer was “unable to reach his gateway”
4.2 – “TB was able to contact mail.shaw.ca (64.59.136.142) to obtain configuration settings”
5 – PaulK – TB default definition for SMTP –2398981

Ref 1 – Slight differences in hops probably are due to dynamic network routings, not due to Name vs IP address. Are the differences repeatable?

I live in the Los Angeles, CA area. Modem plus Router.
Experiments with Ping and Tracert:
Ping: – 53ms to 55ms
Tracert: Total of 13 hops:
– 1 is to the router
– 2-8 are ISP and related
– 9-13 are shaw and related, 13 being mail.shaw.ca, and the observed IP

I’ve played around with C:WindowsSystem32driversetchosts.
Added a line to the supplied Hosts file, and doing both Ping and Tracert:
These three definitions, one at a time:
– [64.59.136.142 mail.shaw.ca]
– [127.0.0.1 mail.shaw.ca]
– [0.0.0.1 mail.shaw.ca]
— Pings with name: replies are consistent and as expected for each address override
— Pings with IP addr: replies are from correct shaw IP, ~54ms
— Tracert with name: same results as for Pings
— Tracert with IP addr: 13 hops, similar to normal

Conclusions and Questions –
1. Don’t think that Hosts has anything to do with anything.
2. Does Oldtimer have a Gateway, or a Modem+Router configuration?
3. Refs. 2, 3, 4.1: And yet other internet works. Failure for a specific IP address? Why?
4. Ref. 4.2: Carl can, but do we KNOW that Oldtimer can? Does TB pull these configuration settings from its own internal data base when creating account definitions? Does the mail client then actually validate this connectivity as part of the set up? I don’t know.

YES I DO: With Hosts either having or not having 127.0.0.1, TB created pop.shaw.ca, and smtp.shaw.ca as shown in Ref. 5, and below.
During the TB account definition process, it issued these 2 messages
–> Looking up configuration: Trying common server names
–> Configuration found by trying common server names
Then, selecting a Re-test resulted in this:

Therefore: the local mail client does not verify the smtp address. This is in conflict with the conclusion that Carl reached in Ref. 4. Further testing is needed?

Oldtimer gives the server as mail.shaw.ca, not smtp.
This is not a problem, as both mail.shaw.ca and smtp.shaw.ca resolve to
“Pinging shawmail.glb.shawcable.net [64.59.136.142] …”
(POP resolves to “Pinging pop.glb. … [64.59.128.135] …”)

The Shaw server definitions are here.

I would suggest that Oldtimer:
– Restart Windows
– Ping smtp. {If fail. Stop} {If OK, continue}
– Open Thunderbird, but not use an existing Profile
– Create a new Profile, and thus a new Account, to test with.
– If that works, then further refinements can be directed.

Carl and Bob – You are more expert here.

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What we have here are three separate @OldTimer issues:

1) Thunderbird can’t send email
2) Avast installed then uninstalled
3) ICMP (ping, tracert) outbound & firewall rules

I. ICMP and firewall rules

The Internet Control Message Protocol (ICMP) is responsible for ping and trace route. Both ping and tracert have failed for OldTiimer and don’t even hit the gateway (router). This tells us that ICMP packets are being blocked locally.

In home and business environments, inbound ICMP requests are blocked for computers/workstations by firewall rules, usually by default. You don’t want people on the WAN side probing your home network to reveal it’s topography, nor do you want to be the target of a DOS (denial of service) attack (aka ICMP or ping flood attack).

Typically, firewall rules allow outbound ICMP requests for home users. In a business environment, this may not be the case. Your typical office drone (e.g. secretary) has no need for ICMP, therefore network admins disable ICMP at the firewall/endpoint.

Wikepedia – Internet Control Message Protocol

Having ICMP disabled (blocked by the firewall) should not affect TB (email). I don’t know anything about Avast and what firewall rules it sets by default. I did find this:

Avast – Setting up Firewall Basic rules

If you scroll down the page, you can see that’s it’s easy to enable/disable outbound ICMP (ping & trace route).

II. Avast install/uninstall

When Avast was uninstalled, it likely left firewall changes in place. As @Bob99 indicated, uninstalling an AV suite is risky business. Avast does make a utility for this purpose:

Avast – Uninstall Utility

If I have a business client that wants me to uninstall an AV suite, I usually do the following:

1) Back up data files
2) Uninstall Av
3) Reinstall the OS (to avoid any potential problems)

If it’s my next door neighbor, I wouldn’t do anything that drastic.

III. Thunderbird

I think we’re all in agreement that we need to get OldTimer’s email working first. This is what he requested in the OP and we should try to keep things simple for him.

After OldTimer uses TB wizard to recreate his account, we’ll be able to see what kind of message TB returns when he attempts to send mail. Even if it works, I want OldTimer to manually change the configuration afterward to a more secure configuration.

If doesn’t work after that, then we may have to add Thunderbird to approved apps in Windows Firewall. It may initially fail because port 25 might be blocked by the firewall which would cause either a time-out or “server cannot be reached” message.

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Hi Carl. FWIW,my Tbird updated itself  to version 91.3.0 (32-bit),but sadly,no change in my ability to send. I am now using Shaw Webmail,but I prefer Tbird. Oh well.

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Oldtimer: What additional diagnostics and tests have you done? I don’t see any mentioned.
Reference 2399117.

What is your internet access device(s)? That is,
Do you have a gateway (combination modem and router), or separate modem and router? What make and model of these device(s)?

Please do this:
1 – Restart Windows and log on. Do not start Thunderbird.
2 – In a command prompt:
– Ping smtp.shaw.ca (*)
– Ping 64.59.136.142 * – ‘Old’ IP address
– Ping 64.59.128.135 * – ‘New’ IP address
* – Interesting! Both smtp.shaw.ca and mail.shaw.ca now resolve to 64.59.128.135.

What results do you get: do these work, fail, or what?

3. In Notepad, Open C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts .
A ‘clean’ Hosts file will have no ‘active’ entry – all lines are just comments, i.e., start with a [ # ] in column one. (Or a completely blank line.) Does your “hosts” file have any active entry: specifically, one that contains [ shaw.ca ] ? Or ANY line that is not just comments?

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I have an Arris SBG 6782 . Haven’t done anything lately as far as diagnostics. Not a geek. That is why I am on AskWoody..

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Hello,guys,Happy New Year! Well,I checked Windows Firewall,and found that TB was not among the allowed programs,so I added it,but that didn’t help. Only thing I could think of was do you have to reboot after allowing a new program through the firewall? I don’t understand why adding TB to allowed programs would help,as the firewall allowed incoming TB emails even before I added TB to the allowed programs list.

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Hi Oldtimer and all of you amazing people helping him,

I came across this page when googling a similar issue I’m having with Shaw authenticated SMTP, with a different email client (not TB). Oldtimer, I am not connected to Shaw’s network and have repeatedly been having trouble sending email recently, despite having this setup for many years successfully.

I turned logging on in my email client and I see the following:
READ Jan 07 20:44:59.071 [kCFStreamSocketSecurityLevelNone] — host:mail.shaw.ca — port:587 — socket:0x6000037bc120 — thread:0x6000044adb80
421 shw-obgw-4002a.ext.cloudfilter.net cmsmtp 172.56.42.152 blocked. AUP#DNS

The ISP I’m connected to the internet via is T-Mobile in the US (the Shaw internet service is to a family home in Canada). It appears Cloudfilter which is a “middleman” contracted by Shaw is blocking me from sending email, and I have no idea why. I do believe my ISP here uses IPv6 and so I’m wondering if perhaps all IPv6 addresses from this ISP are getting lumped together by Cloudfilter as bad actors because at some point there is NAT back to a single IPv4, so all the IPv6 addresses are being put under the same umbrella?

Anyway, this may be unrelated to your issue, or perhaps it’ll make everyone on this thread go A HA! That is your problem too. If yes, complain to Shaw, as I have.

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Same poster here as above. This thread may also help:

https://support.shaw.ca/t5/internet-discussions/shaw-cloudfilter-blocking-ip-when-using-a-3rd-party-isp/m-p/45817#M15272

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