Clone vs Image for desktop recovery

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[Kathy Stevens]

Over the past couple of weeks, we have been reviewing our desktop recovery options.

The review started when Susan Bradley posted the topic, “When is a system beyond repair?”

https://www.askwoody.com/2024/when-is-a-system-beyond-repair/

We followed up by asking the question, “Will a NAS SSD work in a desktop computer?”

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/will-a-nas-ssd-work-in-a-desktop-computer/

Now we are wondering what is the best option for creating a recovery drive, a Clone or an Image for desktop recovery”.

Up until now we have been using Acronis True Image for Western Digital to clone each of our computer’s primary drives to external SSDs prior to installing monthly updates and after setting up a machine for the first time.

On March 13 TechTango posted in the topic “Macrium Free being discontinued” the following,

“You may already know this, but keep in mind a “clone” is not the same as an “image”.

Cloning copies the source drive sector by sector and if source drive has sectors errors they get cloned to the destination drive.

To avoid this, make an image of the of the source drive not a clone.  Imaging captures all your data as a bit map without sectors, so when you apply this image the destination drive it’s free of sectors errors.”

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/macrium-free-being-discontinued/

Our objective in recovering a desktop is to return it to the state it was in at the time it was backed up including:

• Having all applications function without having to reactivate them,
• Recover Outlook 2021’s contacts and calendars,
• Restore desktop shortcuts,
• Etc.

Your thoughts.

 

• This topic was modified 1 year, 2 months ago by Kathy Stevens.

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NaNoNyMouse

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Clone means you need 1 disk per machine, or 2 for offsite storage.
Clone means accessing each machine to perform the clone – time.

Image / restore means you only need 2 spare disks, but it takes a little longer to recover.
You can use a common repository (NAS etc) for images and automate the image process.
The NAS can be backed up for offsite storage.

For the cost saving in clone disks you can probably buy a good NAS and backup drives.

cheers, Paul

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Kathy Stevens

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I have had clones fail years ago, never an image. Including using the WD free Acronis. I haven’t cloned in years due to those failures. Only thing to watch with an image is, IF you use system restore, you need to edit the settings after restoring the image. It will show C drive missing. Turn off system restore then enable and set the size.

As Paul points out, you save soooo much space with images. I have about 100 stored on an 8TB drive with a bunch of space left for more.

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Kathy Stevens

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cyberSAR wrote:

Only thing to watch with an image is, IF you use system restore, you need to edit the settings after restoring the image. It will show C drive missing. Turn off system restore then enable and set the size.

That is an annoying “feature” with Acronis. In my case, it also removes my “Disk Password Protection” password, which I use to hide my system boot drive.

Using the same restore procedure with Acronis, everything stays as it was. (Yes, I use both.)

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Kathy Stevens

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

Our objective in recovering a desktop is to return it to the state it was in at the time it was backed up including:

Having all applications function without having to reactivate them,
Recover Outlook 2021’s contacts and calendars,
Restore desktop shortcuts,
Etc.

Your thoughts.

I have never used cloning. That is the extent of what I can honestly say about cloning.

On the other hand, over the past ~three decades, I have used drive imaging literally thousands of times. For more than two decades I have created weekly drive images of six logical drives, so at a bare minimum that is 6,240+ drive images. In addition, with all my spelunking and tinkering with Windows’ innards, I have always created a “before” drive image for when I pooch the system, which I have done more times than I can realistically calculate. Which means that I have restored literally hundreds of drive images.

As to your question, I completely restored two PC’s that were destroyed in a house fire into DIY boxes using drive images. I have upgraded hardware from HDD to SSHD to SSD exclusively using drive imaging. I am currently running four NVMe and three SATA SSD’s in my dual boot daily driver. I have the drive images available to put the whole thing into a brand new DIY box without losing a 1 or a 0.

In Windows 95 I used a Colorado Tape Drive for imaging. Since Windows 95 I have used only TeraByte Unlimited’s drive imaging technology. One of the things I consider a feature of this imaging software is that it will abort when encountering bad sectors. One can have bad sectors without being aware. I periodically run chkdsk to avert this feature. I also periodically run dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth and sfc /scannow, because this imaging software will readily image corrupt files if they are located in good sectors. Of Course SSD’s have pages and blocks rather than sectors, but the effects overall are basically the same.

Another bonus of a regimen of regular drive imaging is that your images are pretty much up-to-date. I don’t think that this would be true for a clone. I’m all for having spare drives on hand, because drive failure is always a matter of “when”, not “if”. Swap out the bad drive, restore your image(s), and you’re as up-to-date as the age of your image, with perhaps some minor updating to do.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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SueW, opti1, TechTango, PL1, Kathy Stevens

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

Now we are wondering what is the best option for creating a recovery drive, a Clone or an Image for desktop recovery

Perhaps my video will help give you some perspective.

 

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SueW, Kathy Stevens, PL1

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I don’t like to use sector-by-sector disk cloning with SSDs because it writes to all of the sectors, even if empty, and can decrease performance.

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Microfix, Kathy Stevens

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Assuming that I save an image to a SSD in an external enclosure can I simply replace a problem drive in a computer with the imaged drive from the enclosure?

Or is there more to it than that?

With a clone I can simply switch drives.

And then there is recovery using an Acronis backup.

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Kathy,

No you can not just swap drives.

You need to boot from your imaging software’s boot disk and restore the image to a new drive. Yes, it is more steps but there are advantages.

1. You can store multiple genreations of images on a single drive an restore any of them.
2. You don’t need to keep as many replacement drives on hand.
3. You can store your images on a NAS allowing you to completely automate your imaging routine.

You get the picture that I’m pro imaging.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
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Kathy Stevens

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Due to our past practice of cloning drives, we have no shortage of 2 TB SSD’s.

And we do not operate a NAS.

So what are the other advantages of recovering a workstation using an image vs. a clone?

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Kathy,

See #1 above. Keeping generational Images allows you to backup in time in case something happened that you didn’t notice before you took your last image you can easily go back to the one before or the one before that, etc.

Also many Imaging programs provide the capability to restore to different hardware which can be very useful if you have a compute die and you need to get the user backup in a hurry.

I’m sure others can add to this hey guys and gals?

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Kathy Stevens

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Depending on how old the clone is, it will likely need to “catch up” on security updates.

Clones don’t age well in that regard.

Whereas by their nature, images can (and should) be done frequently, which would result in less down time getting a system up to date.

It’s critically important to test that an image is good…before it’s needed.

A copy of the image should be stored offline, and a copy should be stored off site (in case your site is damaged or destroyed…especially critical for businesses).

Having spare drives available is prudent.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Kathy Stevens

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Whereas by their nature, images can (and should) be done frequently, which would result in less down time getting a system up to date.
It’s critically important to test that an image is good… before it’s needed.
A copy of the image should be stored offline, and a copy should be stored off site (in case your site is damaged or destroyed… especially critical for businesses).

Just wondering, sir, what imaging software do you personally recommend to/install for use by your clients?

Thanks.

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Kathy Stevens

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Any image software that works the way you want and costs as much as you are prepared to pay is the best.

I pay for software for my primary machine and use free software on my others.

cheers, Paul

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Kathy Stevens

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

we have no shortage of 2 TB SSD’s

Gathering dust…

If you have old hardware with enough spare drive bays you can set up a zero cost NAS / server with RAID – 5 disks will give you 8TB storage. Then you can backup automatically and restore direct from the server to disk, saves having to boot a machine.

You need to decide if it’s worth your time to keep cloning. Only then can you consider alternatives.

cheers, Paul

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Kathy Stevens

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Paul T wrote:

If you have old hardware with enough spare drive bays you can set up a zero cost NAS / server with RAID – 5 disks will give you 8TB storage. Then you can backup automatically and restore direct from the server to disk, saves having to boot a machine.

RAID is more “data availabilty” than “data protection”.

Much more difficult to recover a RAID system after a ransomware attack.

 

 

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Kathy Stevens

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Ransomware does not make any difference whether your system uses RAID or not. Recovering a failing / failed RAID array is an OS issue, not a data issue.
If a malware attack affects the data on your RAID, you restore exactly the same way you would to a non-RAID system.

The advantage of a NAS / server is it runs independently. Your office machines do not have standard access to the data on the NAS / server, so malware cannot affect existing backup data on the NAS / server.

cheers, Paul

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Kathy Stevens, satrow

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Paul T wrote:

Ransomware does not make any difference whether your system uses RAID or not. Recovering a failing / failed RAID array is an OS issue, not a data issue.

If a malware attack affects the data on your RAID, you restore exactly the same way you would to a non-RAID system

We’re not talking about OS issues…

The restore is the same…”if” the RAID data has been backed up.

RAID, in and of itself, is not data protection.

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Kathy Stevens

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OldGuyForum wrote:

RAID, in and of itself, is not data protection

I didn’t say it was.

cheers, Paul

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My 2 cents worth:

I have always cloned but I use a paid cloning program. I clone twice a month, each to a different SSD on all 3 of my computers. Once before WU and once after WU. As was previously mentioned, there would be a space in between that wouldn’t be backed up but I save what’s important to me on different computers so it could always be added after having to use a clone.

In the past I have had to use clones a few times and they worked very well by just replacing the drives. Personally I have found cloning to be the best for me but I see that many here prefer imaging which I never could quite grasp the process and cloning has always worked well and fast for me in a catastrophe. Good luck on your decision 🙂

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Kathy Stevens

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Kathy Stevens wrote:

what are the other advantages of recovering a workstation using an image vs. a clone?

Cloning is potentially faster and easier, bit it does require taking the lid off and shuffling hardware.

cheers, Paul

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Kathy Stevens

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Thanks all for participating in this Clone vs. Image for desktop recovery topic.

When it is all set and done, I think that we will continue our current practice of:

• Cloning the drive of a new computer onto a 2TB SSD,
  • Removing the original SSD from the new computer and putting it away for safe keeping;
• Installing the cloned SSD into the new computer then,
  • Downloading and installing the PC manufacturer’s updates,
  • Updating Windows,
  • Installing and updating our standard set of application on the 2TB SSD,
  • Coping all appropriate data files from an external drive (data files created using File Explorer);
• Initiating a standardized back up program by:
  • Opening Acronis True Image for Western Digital and starting daily backups to the computers second internal drive,
  • Opening Acronis and initiating weekly backups to an external drive,
  • Opening Acronis and creating a clone of the newly setup computer to an external drive,
  • Opening File Explorer and copying all data files to an external drive; and
• Each month, prior to installing Windows updates, make sure that we have:
  • A current backup of the computers primary drive and
  • Have copied all data files to an external drive.

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Kathy,

That’s a pretty rigorous backup routine!

If I might make one small suggestion. You didn’t specify if your went through the OOBE before or after the first clone. I’d suggest you do it before that way it’s easy to recycle the pc when the time comes by just replacing the original SSD. All your data is safe and sound no chance of anything exfiltrating your business.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Kathy Stevens

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RetiredGeek

First clone done before the OOBE.

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RetiredGeek

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Sorry I’m late to the party,

My question (related to RG’s posts above) is about upgrading the System Disk (SSD) to a larger new SSD. I am using EaseUS Todo v.9.2, but could go to newer versions if necessary.

?Using the image-and-restore method, can I restore the image to the new SSD in an external enclosure, then swap it in? ?Will the OS boot? Or, should I swap in the SSD then use the Emergency Boot Disk to restore the file to the new SSD in situ?

All opinions, suggestions etc. will be welcomed. Thanks to all in advance.

Zig

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You can do either internal or external, both give the same result.

I don’t have an external caddy for M.2 disks, so I used the swap and restore method recently on this machine. I did have to use MiniTool Partition Wizard to move and expand the partitions after the restore – while Windows was running.

cheers, Paul

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