Crazy power supply for Desktop PC

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Best Buy had an “open box” computer listed at a bargain basement price — $207.99. It was an HP Pavilion p2-1124. 4GB of RAM, 500 GB hard drive, built-in support for two monitors, Windows 7-64 home-premium.

I figured, what the heck, here’s my chance to move up from the lame computer I now have. So I bought it.

I wasn’t troubled by the fact that it said that the “power cord” was missing. I have plenty of power cords at home.

Boy was I disappointed when I learned that this desktop PC uses an EXTERNAL power supply, and that they cost around $50!

I’m heading back there tonight to see if they can give me the power supply, or to get my money back.

Moral of the story: don’t assume anything. Look the product over thoroughly before buying it.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Looks like a laptop in a desktop case http://h20000.www2.hp.com/bizsupport/TechSupport/Document.jsp?objectID=c03364038&prodSeriesId=5187034

No PCI-E bus and a 65W external power supply.

Jerry

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The VIA Mini-ITX mobo shows up pretty frequently in kiosks, “net-tops” and thin clients, and is popular with DIY-ers building special-purpose systems (like media centers) and “case mod” systems into anything from game consoles to cigar humidors. Besides being cheap and reliable, the big attraction is that they run cool enough to seldom require fans, meaning silent operation, especially attractive for office and home theater use.

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WHAT A PIECE OF JUNK “DESKTOP”!

Boy am I glad I saw your post, Jerry. I’m definitely getting my money back on this one — no way am I keeping it.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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The motherboard was probably originally designed for an All in One PC.

Jerry

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How in the world is anyone – even an IT pro – supposed to know what’s INSIDE the case, unless you remove the cover?

The back of the computer would have been a tip-off, IF I HAD LOOKED AT IT BEFORE BUYING THE COMPUTER! THERE’S NOTHING THERE! IT’S ALL COVERED UP!

http://h10032.www1.hp.com/ctg/Manual/c03262410.pdf

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Best Buy. Must have been their DIY section. That’s an expensive case for 200 dollars.
How could you not look at the specs before buying [??]

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Best Buy. Must have been their DIY section. That’s an expensive case for 200 dollars.
How could you not look at the specs before buying [??]

When I saw the price, and I knew that it was new, that was all I needed to know! Or so I thought.

What the heck: it had 4 GB of ram (my eMachines computer that I “appropriated” from my kids 😮 maxes out at 2 GB) and a 500 GB hard drive.

To make a long story short, my wife moved her office out of the house, freeing up a bunch of router ports. There is a lot less on the router now, and the “dad” port is set to “highest” priority. All of a sudden, my “lame” computer is a lot faster! So I think I’ll wait on buying a new computer.

By the way, F.U.N., walmart.com is a good place to buy refurb computers. The prices are good, and if you get a bad one, it’s really easy to simply return it at your local Wal Mart.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Nice quality refurbs from Joy Systems, Inc. often sold through Buy.com. Example: http://www.rakuten.com/prod/hp-dc7800-sff-core-2-duo-3-0ghz-4096mb-ram-160gb-hdd-dvd-rw-windows-7/226044036.html. Those 3Ghz or more Core2duo processors really hold up well in my opinion and they can be made into competent medium duty video processors and lower end high end gaming system (if that made sense) with a low profile HD 7750 or equivalent graphics card. The Dells seem to make for really good refirbs regardless of whatever was wrong with them. Stay away from anything that’s not at least a Core2duo, for instance the P4 dual cores run much hotter and will pollute your workspace with hi rev fan noise and not be nearly as nimble as the Core2duo even though the processor speed may be nearly identical.

That’s my wisdom, 😮
Oops just saw my example was an HP; they hold up well too, but the fit and finish never seems to be quite as good as the Dells.

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>>Boy was I disappointed when I learned that this desktop PC uses an EXTERNAL power supply, and that they cost around $50!

One of my customers bought a new desktop at Best Buy last year, and it uses an external power supply, also. I think that’s the latest thing in manufacturing, easier to assemble and replace.

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Here’s another computer, a Dell, that looks like the same type of junk that the HP above is, except that you can’t add as much memory or have as big of a hard drive as the HP:

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-660s/pd?refid=inspiron-660s&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch&isredir=true

Memory maxxes out at 2 GB, and hard drive maxxes out at 500 GB!

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Here’s another computer, a Dell …

http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-660s/pd?refid=inspiron-660s&baynote_bnrank=0&baynote_irrank=0&~ck=baynoteSearch&isredir=true

Memory maxxes out at 2 GB, and hard drive maxes out at 500 GB!

Dell is now selling preconfigured units. If you click on Select you’ll see that the low-end unit has the lowest price, and for more money you can get more memory and a bigger hard drive. I expect you could buy the 2GB unit and add more memory yourself if you want to.

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You should consider building you own. You might enjoy it.
There is a mind boggling amount of choice, and price ranges to satisfy anyone’s budget.

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I feel really dumb! 🙂 What is an external power supply?

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Not so dumb. Here’s what EnergyStar.gov says:
“External power supplies are devices that convert ac power from a wall outlet into lower voltage dc or ac power to be used directly by electronic circuits. External power supplies come in a separate physical enclosure than the end-use product, and usually provide power to the device directly through a separate cord and plug. External power supplies are used to power a variety of electronic devices, including: laptop computers, printers, cordless phones, cell phones, etc.”

When you see a power cord that has a big box connected to it (like you get with laptop power cords) or even a small box (like the power cord to recharge your cell phone) that’s an external power supply.

The point is that these power supplies are often specific to the device and they cost a lot more than a simple power cord and you would certainly expect that a desktop workstation would have it built in.

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A-Ha! So it’s about the little black box, and not providing the correct cord.
Thank you for clarifying.

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What is an external power supply?

So it’s about the little black box…

In the OP’s context, it’s the surprise of the power supply not being built-in, which is the case with almost all PCs. Like the OP, it wouldn’t even occur to me that a PC might not have a power supply if I wasn’t tipped off by price. Even in DIY, it’s as easy/common to buy a bare case, or a case & power supply combo.

Lugh.
~
Alienware Aurora R6; Win10 Home x64 1803; Office 365 x32
i7-7700; GeForce GTX 1060; 16GB DDR4 2400; 1TB SSD, 256GB SSD, 4TB HD

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In the OP’s context, it’s the surprise of the power supply not being built-in, which is the case with almost all PCs. Like the OP, it wouldn’t even occur to me that a PC might not have a power supply if I wasn’t tipped off by price. Even in DIY, it’s as easy/common to buy a bare case, or a case & power supply combo.

Like many of the “features” they foist on unsuspecting purchasers of new cars (timing belts vs timing chains, “donut” spare tires, or only one door having a keyhole, come to mind), an external power supply on a desktop computer is something totally new and foreign to desktop computers, as is the absense of any expansion slots on the mother board. It would never even occur to me that those things would exist with desktop computers. (It would now, but not before.)

The reason these things tick me off so much is because they represent compromises that you have to accept when purchasing a small, all-in-one package such as a laptop, but that you should never have to put up with in a desktop computer.

The reason they make those compromises in a laptop is because there is such a limited amount of space in the case. But in a desktop mini tower, there is plenty of room to put an internal power supply and several expansion slots.

In fact, if you look at the back of the HP that I linked to originally, you’ll see that HP covered up all of the ports!

This is an example of the manufacturer shaving off a few cents from their cost, and not caring about whether or not the customer has a good product.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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A-Ha! So it’s about the little black box, and not providing the correct cord.
Thank you for clarifying.

It’s about me having to keep track of which little black box goes with which device (printer, computer, etc), and having to spend a bunch of money to replace it should it go bad.

What I prefer, and what has been the standard until now, is to have a standard, cheap, easily replaceable power supply built into the computer, and a basic universally-compatible wire that plugs into it.

It’s also about me not being to install my dual video card, my USB expansion card, my wireless NIC, or whatever else I may want to install into the computer.

If I sound really ticked off, it’s nothing personal against you, it’s that I’m ticked off at Dell, HP, et al for playing a really dirty trick on the consumer, apparently just to save a few bucks on manufacturing costs.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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If I sound really ticked off, it’s nothing personal against you, it’s that I’m ticked off at Dell, HP, et al for playing a really dirty trick on the consumer, apparently just to save a few bucks on manufacturing costs.

Two points:
1) It was HP, not Dell, that you bought. Dell has a similar product for $299.99, and it includes a 200-watt power supply. See http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-660s/pd. Scroll down and click the Tech Specs tab to see what you get for that price.
2) It’s not a dirty trick. Read the specs, as you said you should have. Then make an informed choice.

By the way, did you get a refund from Best Buy?

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Two points:
1) It was HP, not Dell, that you bought. Dell has a similar product for $299.99, and it includes a 200-watt power supply. See http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/inspiron-660s/pd. Scroll down and click the Tech Specs tab to see what you get for that price.
2) It’s not a dirty trick. Read the specs, as you said you should have. Then make an informed choice.

By the way, did you get a refund from Best Buy?

1. You’re right about the informed choice. I should have checked before I bought.

2. As far as it being a dirty trick, I’m thinking about the average person who doesn’t know much about computers, who sees a good price and therefore buys the computer. Then later, when they want to add a card into the computer, they can’t. And by then it’s way past time when they can return the computer.

Best Buy gave me a refund with no questions asked.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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The point is that these power supplies are often specific to the device and they cost a lot more than a simple power cord and you would certainly expect that a desktop workstation would have it built in.

You’d better make sure to label the external power supply so that you’ll always know which computer it goes with. I can see you having two or three of these power supplies; and then a couple of years from now, you unhook everything, set up shop in another room, and then can’t remember which power supply went with which computer.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I prefer to save money on software rather than on hardware. This thread illustrates several reasons for this strategy.

I’d rather spend more money up front as I did on my Toshiba Satellite laptop, than to have to replace it or its components every year or less. Even this laptop has enough expansion to allow USB-3 to be added. And internally, there is room for more RAM, and maybe a SSD.

Software is where I save my money, preferring freeware or low-cost alternatives to the expensive Office and Security programs. Unless there’s a specific business related reason, I don’t see the sense in paying more for features a lot of us don’t use.

-- rc primak

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$208!?!?! Really? C’mon.

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External power supplies sound smart to me since power supplies are usually the first thing to go on a tower.

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External power supplies sound smart to me since power supplies are usually the first thing to go on a tower.

Welcome to the Lounge, Deirdre.

You may be right about power supplies going out on towers, although I haven’t seen many fail during my years in IT.

In the case of power supply failure, I would prefer to replace a standard, universally available part (such as an internal power supply) rather than an external, specific-to-that-machine power supply, because I know that I could easily find an internal one that would be compatible; but it wouldn’t be as easy to find a compatible external one.

On the other hand, it sure would be easier to swap out the external one than the internal one.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Yeah, you were sold the proverbial bill of goods.

Going forward, learn as much as you can in reasonable time about the PC you are considering buying. Plus keep in mind that there are a few reasons why a PC will be really cheap;

1. It is a very low end PC. Typically that means both poorly equipped and with minimal ability to upgrade. Here the processor is soldered in – that should already be a hint. Also, it doesn’t have gigabit ethernet – another hint of CHEAP. Plus some makers such as HP tend to use cheaper forms of motherboards, etc. except maybe in some top end units. 10 years ago I bought a fairly expensive, customized HP desktop, and found that it had a modified motherboard carefully designed to prevent most upgrades, plus a power supply that was very anemic and not in a standard shape and size.

2. It is an older model. It may well be a year old, or even a few years old, and very obsolete. And if you try to upgrade or update (like a newer OS), you may find that you can’t do it.

3. It may be missing parts. In this case saying it was missing a power cord was quite the understatement – IMHO quite a lie.

4. It may be a used, returned or refurb unit, and may not be reliable, though some refurbs can be a good value.

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I bought an HP Pavilion back in 2011 and I haven’t had to upgrade at all. I consider myself intermediate to advanced and the features that came with the computer are great. 8gigs of RAM 1.5 TB HD the built in audio and graphics are more than good enough to listen to HD audio and play action games with just a little lag, but for onboard stock graphics, it performs very well. I don’t work or am associated with HP, but just giving an example that let the buyer beware.

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I bought an HP Pavilion back in 2011 and I haven’t had to upgrade at all. I consider myself intermediate to advanced and the features that came with the computer are great. 8gigs of RAM 1.5 TB HD the built in audio and graphics are more than good enough to listen to HD audio and play action games with just a little lag, but for onboard stock graphics, it performs very well. I don’t work or am associated with HP, but just giving an example that let the buyer beware.

Gomek:

Does your HP have internal expansion slots? I hope it does, because even though you may be perfectly happy with it for as long as you own it, suppose your video goes out: how will you fix it, short of replacing the mother board? If you have expansion slots, on the other hand, you could simply add a video card.

On my wife’s computer, her internal, on-board USB ports started to get flaky. Because she had expansion slots, I was able to add a USB card, giving her four good ports.

Jim

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My 10 year old HP came with 2 memory slots, officially a max of 1GB ram (actually takes 2 nicely), an oddball size and shape PSU that lasted 5 years, a video capture card that didn’t capture much of anything, a tiny hd, and a mobo that had many features removed by HP compared to the standard for that mobo. I’ve kept it running and given it better ethernet, video and even a better P4, but it’s always been slow and limited.

It took me a while to understand that HP laptops also came precrippled. One from several years ago had excellent N wifi with both bands; newer ones come with pseudo (IMHO) cards that on N may get lower througput then older G cards and are only single band. The graphics drivers are sometimes years out of date, and the update utilities for drivers often don’t work. You report a problem; they give you a few fake fixes and then walk away from you.

I also have a desktop I specified and built myself. Other then a mobo support issue (unusable bluetooth), I have no trouble finding driver and bios updates, the PSU is way above and beyond what I need power wise – yet very efficient (and economical to use), the video is decent (and easily upgradable). Everything uses standard parts available in some way shape or form from multiple vendors if something gives up.

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Here’s the spec’s on my machine, it doesn’t have some expansion

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02863020&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5098896#N397

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I think even a fairly seasoned computer whiz may be fooled by this. I would expect this with a tablet, smart phone, or even maybe an all-in-one, but a desktop tower! Good God! What will they think of next! No wonder HP’s business is going down the tubes!

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Here’s the spec’s on my machine, it doesn’t have some expansion

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c02863020&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&product=5098896#N397

Your motherboard doesn’t look that bad. It has the following expansion slots:
◦1 PCI Express x16 slot for graphics card
◦3 PCI Express x1 slots
◦1 PCI Express x1 minicard slot

It also has four memory expansion slots.

It also has a standard internal power supply, which means you have connectors for adding internal devices.

You have plenty of capability for future expansion, and you can use a standard power cord. Exactly what one would expect when buying a desktop computer.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I believe that I have a couple. I originally built my own system back in 2001 when the industry was just taking off. I have swamped out a couple motherboards along the way. For now though, I just wanted to reliable computer that had halfway decent features. You make a real good point, I suppose if I don’t have a good option to install a video card then I would have to go to Newegg or someone and get another MB. I have a couple Linux boxes I could fall back on if I needed, and I’m good about backups so that would be a small inconvenience.

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But like most Commercial systems the Power Supply is only 250 watts. Usually specced to provide just enough power for the system as delivered. Not a lot of extra power for expansion. Enough for an extra hard drive or DVD drive but more than likely not enough for a good video card.

Jerry

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I had to put a better power supply in my HP Media Center – it was no wonder it failed because it had too many devices on USB, PCIe, RAID terabyte hard drives, and Blu-Ray burning to put up with the measly PSU that came from the factory – I replaced it with a 450W unit, and it has run quieter, and better than it ever has! Just the video adapter in that machine uses 100 Watts!!!

In fact I think it was a 80 PLUS Bronze category on energy efficiency; so even though it is high powered, it only uses the energy where needed.

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Every once in a while I spot a amped up HP desktop with a much larger PSU on the HP web site. But I’ve found them few and far between.

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I hear ya pbug56! It seems like HP can’t wait to sell all spare parts to re-sellers! They refuse to keep anything in inventory past one or two years. I always end up getting a better deal on some parts-surfer site.:^_^:

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Thank goodness you were able to return that computer to Best Buy. The old AMD CPU in it has a speed of 1.3GHz, which is really slow for a dual core processor. I think you would have been disappointed and frustrated with that computer. Good riddance!

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What I was referring to were the few high end desktops they sell with appropriate PSU’s. But I’ve also encountered what you described. I upgraded an older laptop to add a BD drive – using the drive that HP speccs told me to get, with the HP logo on it. But I had to order it from a firm in the far east, to whom they’d sold off their inventory.

The fun part – that laptop later went to HP for servicing under extended warranty – the tech stole the BD drive from it and put a regular one back in! Though HP later ‘made up’ for the theft, I was not a happy camper. And I never got a viable account of the theft.

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Wow plug56; talk about stupid criminals. With the price of blu-ray dropping precipitously now, it was hardly worth risking one’s career to kife a drive like that. I think all the big house OEMs have a problem where they sent off their facilities to offshore out sourcing, and are finding out it may not pay off like they thought it would. The smart ones have been moving back where they came from originally.

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This was an HP tech in California. I’m sure the tech saw something hard to get and very sale-able…

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