Thunderbird Disaster – did as asked AOL

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[OscarCP]

Following AOL instructions to “sync” my Thunderbird “third party application” account, I first removed the existing account, then reinstalled it.

Please note: I have a Mac running Big Sur.

My servers are SMTP for sending and POP 3 for receiving. So copies of all my messages, sent and received, are kept in my Mac. Allegedly.

It all seemed to go smoothly enough after I entered my email address and password, but then when I opened the mail page there were no “Saved” or “Junk” folders there. And none of the received emails either. I had to import these all over again from my Apple Mail account, but still I’ll have none of my sent mails there. Fortunately, they appear in the “saved” folder in Mail, but that is no where I need them if I want to use TB.

The cherry on top of this messcream: When I try to remove junk mail marked as junk by clicking twice on the little yellow flame icon marking the message as “junk”, I get this warning and nothing happens:

“There is not enough disk space to download new messages. Try deleting old mail, emptying the Trash folder, and compacting your mail folders, and then try again.”

I guess this is because there is no “Junk” folder, because I can delete the junk message OK by simply clicking on it to mark it and then hitting the “Delete” key in my keyboard. It ends up where usually do delete folders, in the “Trash” folder.

On top of this, another cherry: when I tried to check to see if I have received a new message the old mails start to get imported again from Mail, each one on top of its copy already stored in the mail box, so the disk space does not change, but this is a long and unnecessary process.

The most pressing issue for me is to recover the “Sent” file of the original account, with all its contents, if that is possible.

And since they were not deleted, all my sent and saved email messages are still sitting somewhere on the SSD.

Any help with this unexpected catastrophe is definitely welcome.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by OscarCP.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by OscarCP.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by PKCano.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Susan Bradley.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Susan Bradley.
• This topic was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by Susan Bradley.

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This is a test: Something seems to be wrong with the creation of a new thread. I have emailed “User Service” about it, but afterwards I decided to check if it is possible to post replies here.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I retyped in the title and fixed up the format.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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OscarCP

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OscarCP wrote:

Following AOL instructions to “sync” my Thunderbird “third party application” account, I first removed the existing account, then reinstalled it.

You removed the account from TB or AOL?
Oscar I do hope you have a backup. AOL and MAC are both different enough that I would not generalize from my experience. I do wish you success in rectifying this mess.

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Wavy: I was trying to proceed to “sync” my TB account, so I did as told by AOL (or else) and first removed the existing TB account and created a new one with my email address and password, the same ones of the old account. The new account was “done” right away and seemed to have been setup OK, looking at the server options, etc. that were all as before.

But, looking at the folders and their contents …

The emails were missing everywhere. Now I have the received ones, because I imported them from AOL Mail again, and nothing else.  “Sent” and “Junk” folders are missing too, etc. as explained in my original and now weird-looking comment at the top.

But those emails were all saved in my computer SSD, because of my choice of servers: incoming POP 3 and out going SMTP. So where are they now?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Can you use IMAP rather than POP?

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Anonymous: “Can you use IMAP rather than POP?”

Yes, but for me using POP is the whole point of having Thunderbird as my main email application. I don’t want my emails to be kept in some server out there.

The other client in my Mac, Apple Mail, has AOL’s IMAP as the incoming server. When I first opened the account, years ago, I had to set it up as IMAP, because AOL required it to be so, and now I cannot change that, as the AOL account in Mail is locked.

I want to get away from that.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I hesitate since I know not much about email, but was your account POP or IMAP before and which is it now?   Is it true that some part (partition) of your computer is low on disk space?

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Anonymous: “I hesitate since I know not much about email, but was your account POP or IMAP before and which is it now?”

(1) It was POP, POP 3, actually, and still is POP 3 in Thunderbird’s new account.

(2) No, I have plenty of space, with 2/3 of 1 TB still free after 4.5 years using the Mac, and I have not repartitioned the SSD after installing Big Sur months ago, back in August (I upgraded from Mojave, so the Big Sur installation rearranged the mass storage SSD automatically to keep the OS in an encrypted partition, but that is old history by now.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OK: I just figure out how to create functional, for real, Junk, Saved and Drafts folders and also backup local folders I have called “Saved mbox”  to archive, eventually, if I need to do that, some received emails and “Saved sent” to archive, also eventually, some sent emails.

Now, if I only could figure out where my Sent email folder in the original TB account went, to put them all in my new “Sent” folder …

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Mailstore Home is a great free and portable app for archiving emails. You may want to run it to save everything just in case it goes sideways
https://www.mailstore.com/en/products/mailstore-home/

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No Mac version.

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And again, as there seems to be some confusion:

It is not in saving emails that I am interested, but in finding where the emails I had saved in the account I deleted are now. Because those were saved to the Mac’s SSD, so they have to be still there, but where?

For more detail, please, have a look at my original comment, at the start of this thread, the third paragraph, the one that begins: “It all seemed to go smoothly enough“

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Can’t you run a text search/file type search for mail on your Mac?
Can you restore your Mac from Time Machine to the point before TB changes ? Than backup just your TB + mail so it can be restored ?

Time Machine automatically backs up your entire Mac, including system files, applications, accounts, preferences, email messages, music, photos, movies, and documents.

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OscarCP

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Unfortunately that will install something from the last backup. some weeks ago. Besides, I only want to recover the sent messages, and Time Machine will replace the whole Thunderbird with the old version. The new version has been “synced” with AOL, as AOL has demanded I do by the 20th of this month. The old version will not be “synced” yet, so I would have to “sync” it. If did that, I am going to have the same problem as last time I did it (yesterday) of things disappearing from the “synced” TB. And then back to square one.

It is not the end of the world, because I have the missing messages safe in Apple Mail, my other client. But the messages that disappeared from TB during the “syncying” are still somewhere using up SSD space, and probably there are several GB of them out there.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Try using Spotlight to find a file name of an email or a text string in an email. You’ve got emails in another email client, so look through them and find a text string that you think is uncommon (to minimize the number of hits you get). Once you find one email, the rest of them are probably in the same folder (I would think).

https://support.apple.com/guide/mac-help/spotlight-mchlp1008/11.0/mac/11.0

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OscarCP

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DrBonzo, I tried your recommended procedure, but unfortunately, using Spotlight, and Finder as well, I only got files in folders that either I have created or presently on the Desktop. Nothing from my email client folders, whether present or missing in action.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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DrBonzo

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How to restore “lost” email folders

…in a series of tech support calls, following their directions (in retrospect egregiously wrong), I was told to change my thunderbird password, then delete and reactivate my thunderbird account. When I did that, all my previous folders (about 150 folders) stored on my computer disappeared….

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OscarCP

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Thanks a lot, Alex.

After reading the article you have linked, and after giving  a very hard look at my actual situation, which is less convenient than before but really close enough to it for me to live with, as explained previously today and also in my answer to Paul further down this thread, I have decided to find the missing mbox folders, put them in another folder on my Desktop until I figure out what best to do with them, and otherwise leave this situation well alone.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

Now, if I only could figure out where my Sent email folder in the original TB account went, to put them all in my new “Sent” folder …

I have an IMAP account and I configured Thunderbird to place a copy of my Sent messages on the email server. This is not possible with a POP mail account. You need to check where Thunderbird is trying to save your Sent messages because it may be defaulting to the email server.
`
Open Account Settings and click on Copies & Folders under the respective Account Name. If the Sent Folder on radio button is ticked and you see your email server name in the dropdown, change it to Local Folders and click OK. Send yourself an email and see if it displays in the Sent Folder under Local Folders. The Sent Folder doesn’t get created until you send yourself an email.

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OscarCP

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Thanks, Anonymous. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I have now a working “Sent” folder after I did as you explain, yesterday. I also have managed to create the “Junk” and “Drafts” folders that were missing.

What I am interested in now is to get back the emails I sent in the past, because my new “Sent” folder only has the ones I have  been sending yesterday and today. However, those are still in the corresponding folder in Apple Mail, my other email client tat I decided to move away because of some problems after an OS’upgade, because, as I have discovered just now, this is because they share the same AOL SMTP server!

So I might not have everything in TB, but between it and Mail I have everything.

However, I would like to locate the folders I had in the TB account that I deleted before opening the present one (with the missing emails) in order to Sync with AOL, as demanded by AOL, when following its instructions. The reason for getting back this folders is that then I can decide what to with them

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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This Support Mozilla page and the links within may be of help.

Win 11 home - 24H2
Attitude is a choice...Choose wisely

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OscarCP

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miedman: Thanks, I’ll try using FB “Help” as explained in the article to locate the missing folders, to put them somewhere easy to find, for example in a folder on the Desktop, until I decide what to do with them.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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One step at at time. (The snips below are Win 7, TB 78.)
When you did the Delete of the (old) account, and got this panel,

did you put a check on the ‘Remove message data’ check box?

Or did you click on the ‘More Info’ button and get this panel,

and here did you put a check on the ‘Remove message data’ check box?

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OscarCP

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PaulK: I am pretty sure that I did not click on anything that read “delete existing emails” or words to that effect.

That is why this whole thing is so baffling.

And by now, particularly after following the URL link provided by Alex in his comment further up today, I have decided to follow the advice given here by DrBonzo along with coincident recommendations from people in other places, to find my missing original email mbox files, put them inside a new folder on the Desktop and keep them there until I decide how to dispose of them. Other than that, and given the present situation that I have explained for example here #2405475  , I finally have figured out  that this is actually good enough for me to leave it well alone.

Particularly after reading, in the site linked by Alex, what happened to a poor man that lost years of emails in the same way as I did, according to his exchange with “experts” in the online forum where he looked for help and got instead to waste a lot of very stressing time for nothing. That and other equally unhelpful, or dubious at best, things I have found when searching on the Web for solutions, have persuaded me that I should better quit while I am still (somewhat) ahead, for the reasons I have already explained further up here, in my replies of today.

I do thank you and all the people here that have rallied to my help. AskWoody is a good place to discuss things of general and personal interest, specially when aggrieved by some serious technical mishap. Fortunately for me, while less convenient than before, after further investigation, I have decided things are pretty much the same as before, having lost only a small portion of my saved emails. I can live with that (not that I have a better choice).

And, to conclude: I still hate Thunderbird with all my heart. When I did the same thing with the AOL account in my other mail client: Apple Mail, I did not have any problem at all. So this one is squarely on TB.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Are you willing to do the exploration necessary to establish that the missing Sent file still exists, even though TB has deleted the reference to it? If we can locate the file, then it is a trivial two-step operation to give you full access to the emails again. No need to do any other manipulations.

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OscarCP

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PaulK: Not a priority at the moment. But if it is not too involved and time-consuming, I am willing to find those missing files. Or verify that they have left for good this sublunar sphere.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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One more question: When you ‘deleted the account’, it was only the POP mail account that was deleted, correct? It wasn’t the TB Profile, right?

In the following instructions, I am using the Windows path design. You’ll have to convert this to MAC, but I quite suspect that, within TB, the structures are parallel.
NOTE: In this exploration, you will not be making any changes. You are on an expedition to confirm that the missing Sent data exist. Please don’t move or copy it elsewhere at this point – which would only make a subsequent step more complex.

The snips that I included previously were from a ‘dummy’ test account that I created in order to be able to capture the ‘account deletion’ dialog.
This is the absolute path that I see in Windows:

C:\Users\Paul\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.TB78\Mail\pop.test.com

Notes: The xxx’s were a TB-randomized name assignment.
– The ‘TB78’ is the TB Profile name.
– The ‘pop.test.com’ is a fake server name; it does not really exist.

Locate the parent folder of all your TB mails. In the Thunderbird Menu Bar:
Tools > Account Settings > (your account name) > Server Settings > (at the bottom of the screen) Local Directory: .

The folders’ structure is that, within the “…/Mail”, each account has its own folder. What you will see is (don’t know the sequence here) –
Mail: and within that, your current account; AND another account – which will be the deleted one. (NOTE WELL: when I use the term ‘deleted’ one, I am referring to the account which you deleted. The account DATA still exist on disk, but TB has deleted its (TB’s internal) REFERENCE to it. This may be confusing; just press on.

Look at the names of the files within your present account; you will see Inbox, Sent, Trash, and others.

Now, still within ‘Mail’, go to the other (the deleted account) folder, and again go one level down. Again, you will see: Drafts, Inbox, etc. What we are confirming is that Sent also is listed. From your statement that it has thousands of emails, the size of this Sent file probably is pretty big.

If you can confirm the existence of this Sent file, then the re-connection of it into your present email account is trivial.

I have only a very scant knowledge of Mac files’ structure, so if the above is too confusing please stop and let someone with TB on Mac to chime in with clearer directions.

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OscarCP

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PaulK,

Following your instructions, this is what I have found in /Mail (in TB) that could be the missing “Sent” file, with around 56 MB of data. I definitely have fewer sent messages than received ones and, as you can see in the attached screenshot, the “Inbox” file is almost 480 MB, which looks about right for that file.

Now, assuming that this is the missing “Sent” folder formatted as a single big file, what are the next steps?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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[JohnW]

Not sure if this will help as I’m a Windows only user…

Anyway, here is the folder structure for my TB user profile on the Windows PC as I have it set up. Hope this helps you locate the lost messages in your old TB folders.

C:\Users\nnnnn\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default\ImapMail\imap.gmail.com\[Gmail].sbd

For some context to my setup, I have used the Thunderbird client for email for about 8 years. Using IMAP only for my Gmail account. Have it set up to keep all mail on local folders in TB, as well as retained on the server, for instant web mail access from mobile Gmail clients on laptop and smartphone.

I have never used POP/SMTP with TB. Used my Windows Live Mail for that with my old ISP email provider. I managed somehow to import those old Live Mail folders over as local archive folders in TB somehow, but it was some work for sure!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

• This reply was modified 3 years, 5 months ago by JohnW. Reason: Edit comments

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Thanks, JohnW. What you show in the screenshot is very much the same that I can find digging in with my own version of TB for Macs. Now the question I still have unanswered, having found my missing files, or so it seems, is what to do with them. For that I am waiting for PaulK to come back with some advice, as promised. Or for anyone who has similar information and wishes to share it here.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Oscar: Excellent; I think that you’ve given what we need to proceed.

If there is any confusion in the following, let’s clarify, as I’ve had to make a couple of assumptions on names.

For reference, I’ll refer to the present account as ‘Present’.
And I’ll refer to the deleted account as ‘Deleted’.

Your /Mail/ folder contains three sub-folders:
– Local Folders (not being discussed further)
– pop.verizon.net
– pop.verizon.net-2 (I’m guessing. This is critical to the discussion below.)

‘pop.verizon.net-2’ is associated with the Present account. Is this correct?
‘pop.verizon.net’ isn’t associated with any account now, but was Deleted.

Each account folder has within it those mail folder pairs that you see:
Inbox + Inbox.msf; Sent + Sent.msf; … etc.
(The ‘.msf’ is a TB indexing file. It is not critical, as TB will create a new one if one doesn’t already exist.)

What you will do now is to Copy, into Present {pop.verizon.net-2} the Sent file from Deleted {pop.verizon.net}.

But, if you were to blindly just copy it over, the existing (good/Present) Sent mail folder either would be replaced, or else retained and the file being copied-over would be assigned some other name. (Acceptable, but not optimal.)

You will be doing Steps 1 and 2 here with Thunderbird closed.
STEP 1
So, to keep track of, and control, who is what:
– in the list of files that you’ve displayed:
— Rename Sent to Sent0 (that is a zero)
— Rename Sent.msf to Sent0.msf
– Optionally, do these same Renames for each mail-file pair that you would like to recover.
Suggestion, if chosen (suffix character only needs to be something different):
– savedmails.form1June.2020 –> savedmails.form1June.2020_
– savedmails.form1June.2020.msf –> savedmails.form1June.2020_.msf

(You will not be doing anything with msgFilterRules.dat and popstate.dat.)

STEP 2
Copy the files which you have renamed
– from the folder pop.verizon.net
– to the folder pop.verizon.net-2

STEP 3
Open Thunderbird.
What you should expect to see, along with the email folders that you already have, are Sent0 (and any other mail folders that you optionally copied).

(It is not at all easy to make the modifications within TB that would re-define the missing ‘Deleted’ mail account. This files’ copy approach is the only practical way of recovering ‘lost’ mails.

At the time when the account was deleted, had you chosen then also to ‘remove message data’, then we would be into an undelete-the-deleted-files scenario. I don’t know what programs there exist in the Mac world that allow a user do this. )

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wavy, OscarCP, windbg

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PaulK: Thanks for this explanation on how to proceed to get the missing messages in my current TB “Sent” folder.

I would make one change to your suggestion:

(1) Create a folder “Sent.recent” in TB’s “Local Folders” and move there the few messages currently in Sent.

(2) Copy the old “Sent”messages’ file to the current “Sent” folder, as you have explained.

(3) Once having done successfully the above, move the recently sent messages, now in the just created “Sent.recent” folder, back  to the “Sent” folder.

(4) Either delete or keep for possible future use the new “Sent.recent” folder, as keeping it should cause no problems.

After starting this process, I might have more questions, as I intend to proceed very cautiously with this.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Good thinking, on retaining the present sparse collection of emails.
(1) But I’d avoid using a ‘dot’ file-name approach. Instead:
Within Thunderbird, just create within Local Folders a Sent ‘Recent’ sub-folder, and move the emails into it. Repeat for any other folders you may want to futz with. Then be sure to Compact the Sent (and any other) folder.

The rest looks good.

2 users thanked author for this post.

wavy, OscarCP

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PaulK: I have proceeded without problems or new reason to ask a question and now I have:

(1) All my sent emails, both recent and pre-disaster, in my current TB account’s “Sent” folder. Great!

(2) An empty “Saved_” folder in the non-local top section on the left sidebar that seems impossible to delete, unless you can suggest a way of doing this. Reasons for wanting it gone: (1) it could make things a bit more complicated if I needed to repeat this operation sometime (I hope not) in the future.

(2) It has no purpose any longer and I find it annoying to have it there, as I am peculiar this way.

So, final question: Is there a way of getting rid of it?

Whether there is a way to get rid of it or not, I am now back to where I was, plus I have this discussion with your advice in it kept in AskWoody for the foreseeable future. Besides, I am having this thread’s Web page backed up in my Mac, in case I ever need to look it up again in a hurry.

Thank you, PaulK, and also all those that showed an interest and posted comments here to help me get out of the really bad place AOL+TB had landed me in.

Oscar

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1UrY_tRADk

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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(1) – Delighted to hear that all went well.
(2) – I’m not familiar with this folder name. Do you recall having created it?
Perchance is this a name that is associated with some of these recovery exercises that you’ve been going through?
I do note that the TB-created folders do not offer a Delete option when one right-clicks on the folder name. (TB is insistent – if/when it finds that one of the vital TB-created files is missing, TB automatically will create a new (hence empty) one.)
What method are you using to try to delete it?
– Right-click > Delete … or is this not available?
– What, if anything, changes if you
— Right-click > Properties > Repair Folder
— Note also that in that same panel is given the “Location:” of the file that is this mail folder.
— So you may be able to locate that file; Close TB; and manually Delete it (and any accompanying “Saved_.msf”).

Oscar – you are very welcome! But you probably don’t want to hear:
“Come again for another visit, real soon, OK partner?” !

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Paul,

The folder in question was created when I added the missing sent messages’ file  from pop.verizo.net to pop.verizon.net-2, after changing the extension to “_” as you recommended:

“STEP 2
Copy the files which you have renamed
– from the folder pop.verizon.net
– to the folder pop.verizon.net-2

Suggestion, if chosen (suffix character only needs to be something different):
– savedmails.form1June.2020 –> savedmails.form1June.2020_
– savedmails.form1June.2020.msf –> savedmails.form1June.2020_.msf ”

It seems that only local folders that one creates can be deleted. This one is not a local folder, so…

I can live with that, maybe as a sort of memorial to the Great Lost Sent Messages Catastrophe of 2021, although to have it gone for good it would be even nicer.

Other than that, I’m OK and this problem is, as far as I can tell, over at last.

But do not discount my showing up with another Thunderbird-related dire story once again, because this is TB we are talking about, you know?

Until then, all the best and thanks for all the help.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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It seems that only local folders that one creates can be deleted. This one is not a local folder, so…

This puzzles me. This is not true in Windows (and I’m not goading a Mac vs Win discussion).
Have you tried the ideas in (2) earlier? What were the results of each?

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Step 2: Yes, I did exactly that. I have no idea where the “_.msf” one went; may be it is not supposed to show up where one can see it.

The one ending in “_” created a directory with the sent messages I wanted to get back: the by now quite empty, useless and un-deletable “Sent_” directory under consideration.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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“Have you tried the ideas in (2) earlier? What were the results of each?”

“(2) …
What method are you using to try to delete it?
– Right-click > Delete … or is this not available?
– What, if anything, changes if you
— Right-click > Properties > Repair Folder
— Note also that in that same panel is given the “Location:” of the file that is this mail folder.
— So you may be able to locate that file; Close TB; and manually Delete it (and any accompanying “Saved_.msf”). ”

Is this truly an “un-deletable “Sent_” directory”, (emphasis directory) or a file?

Are you attempting to delete this from within Thunderbird? —
Is this directory/file directly within your account? That is, the name is aligned along with Inbox, Drafts, Sent, Trash, … ?
Or perhaps is it a sub-directory within Trash? Or within some other mail folder?

Or are you attempting to delete this – with TB closed – directly from your files’ listing?

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Paul: Right-clicking on Sent_ does open a drop-down menu without the option to “Delete” in it.

So I did the following:

A short while ago I closed TB and went to Library/Thunderbird/Profiles/pop.verizon-2.net  and trashed “Sent_”  there.

Then opened TB again and Sent_ was still there.

So thanks for taking so much trouble on my account.

But I have decided finally and irrevocably that Sent_ can stay there, since it is clearly determined to do so no matter what I do, its presence is only mildly offensive to my engineer’s sense of functional minimalism — and I can  live with that.

I much rather do something else, such as watching one of the 1960’s King Hu masterpiece Wuxia martial arts movies (using blade weapons: swords, knives, throw daggers, …) like “Dragon Gate Inn” that I have on DVD and like very much. The actors used real swords, etc. and got hurt fairly often, or so said the amazing Cheng Pei-Pei in an interview she gave many years later.

It is not every day that one sees someone stop a knife thrown at him by catching it with a pair of chopsticks in mid air, is it?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Do you ALSO have a Sent (without the trailing underscore)?
That is, both Sent and Sent_ ?

Using a text editor, navigate to the Profile folder, and open the file [ prefs.js ]. The contents are almost all in alphabetical sequence. Scroll down to the line that starts with
[ user_pref(“mail.identity.id1.fcc_folder”, “mailbox:// ],
then has your identifying information, and ends with
[ /Sent”); ]

For you, is this ending “Sent”, or “Sent_” ?
Is there a line within this prefs.js file that has the text value “Sent_” ?

When through with the editing, Quit the edit, do not Save.

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OscarCP wrote:

“Dragon Gate Inn” that I have on DVD and like very much.

I like it too and have it in my movies library…
As well as: 14 Blades (2010), Azumi 1,2 (2003, 2005), Chocolate (2008), Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon (2000), Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon Sword of Destiny (2016), Dragon Tiger Gate (2006), Flying Swords of Dragon Gate (2011), House of Flying Daggers (2004), Shinobi Heart Under Blade (2005), Swordsmen (Dragon) (2011), The Forbidden Kingdom (2008), The Storm Riders (1988).

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PaulK has asked:

(1) Do you also have a Sent (without the trailing underscore)?
That is, both Sent and Sent_ ?

Answer: Yes, both are present, but not correct (or rather to my liking).

Then PaulK has asked:

…..

Scroll down to the line that starts with
[ user_pref(“mail.identity.id1.fcc_folder”, “mailbox:// ],
then has your identifying information, and ends with
[ /Sent”); ]

(2) For you, is this ending “Sent”, or “Sent_” ?

Answer: “Sent”.

(3) Is there a line within this prefs.js file that has the text value “Sent_” ?

Answer: No.

I did a search for “Sent”, and found a line with it in

[ user_pref(“mail.identity.id1.fcc_folder”, “mailbox:// ],

Then did a search for “Sent_” and found nothing.

 

I don’t think that trying to solve this strange mystery is really necessary, as it does not intrude in my use of my computer. I really appreciate your desire to help, Paul, but how about just calling it a day on this one?

I am pretty sure that Thunderbird will give many opportunities in the future to discuss what it has done wrong, or not done but should. Although I expect that it will be in less awful circumstances than having all my saved messages disappear, who knows why.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Well, what would you know?

I just installed the most recent patch to macOS “Big Sur” and, oh wonder of wonders, when I opened TB, the rogue and persistent ” Sent_ ” folder was not there anymore!

Most likely we’ll never know why all this happened, but is something I prefer not to research any further and, instead, just be happy and take with both hands this Heaven-given opportunity to forget all about it.

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

I just installed the most recent patch to macOS “Big Sur” and, oh wonder of wonders, when I opened TB, the rogue and persistent ” Sent_ ” folder was not there anymore!

It’s not the macOS patch the “fixed” TB send_, it was the restart on the macOS that removed the ‘locked’ send_ after you have deleted it in another location.

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OscarCP

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