ElReg: Three urgent changes Redmond must make to stop the QA crisis

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Calls for Microsoft to stop the madness and put some quality back into Windows have hit a fevered pace. The latest is an impassioned essay from Andrew
[See the full post at: ElReg: Three urgent changes Redmond must make to stop the QA crisis]

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walker, lanceboil, flackcatcher, HiFlyer, GreatAndPowerfulTech, geekdom, WildBill, AlexEiffel, Microfix

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GOOD LUCK.  Microsoft will continue to put out garbage as long as we continue to put up with it and buy and use it.

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HiFlyer

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Microsoft “management” is determined to match or do better than their clearly far-more successful competitors — Google and Apple. They are doing a lousy job of it and failing miserably. I say again, Microsoft is following the example of many tech giants that have done the same thing — IBM, DEC, NEC, Wang, etc. I am sure you can add to this list.

I am pretty sure, long after I am gone, they will study the pattern of Microsoft to see how exactly it followed in the same footsteps.

Microsoft has lost its mojo and can never get it back because the people who dreampt big are all long gone. As the expression goes, the lights are on, but no one is at home.

CT

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BobbyB, flackcatcher, HiFlyer, David F, WildBill

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Looks like IBM are bouncing back: WOW!

IBM Aquires Red Hat ‘the biggest Linux and open-source acquisition ever’
More info here on ZDNet:
https://www.zdnet.com/article/ibm-acquires-red-hat/

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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What worries me right now is that if the awful quality of 1809 is an indication of the trend, it might only get worse. The fact Microsoft allows Enterprise customers to not have to apply feature updates for much longer than Pro and Home users now might mean small to medium businesses and home users will still serve as guinea pigs for awful quality feature updates that Enterprise customers will install with a delay since they will be able to spend much more time on a stable version. Having Enterprise customers not complain as loudly will just help Microsoft get away with murder on their other customers.

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flackcatcher, HiFlyer

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As the calls for sanity get louder, at some point Windows will have lost its position in the public perception as the default operating system. Someone else will have grabbed that spot, and Microsoft will likely never get their dominant spot back.

My thought is that Apple will become the main player at that point, because they have a ready-made, secure, turnkey system, which is what companies want. And they offer a serious product, as opposed to someone like Google, which offers a low-end, non-secure, “pop-culture” product. I don’t think many companies want Google constantly looking over their shoulder, monitoring everything they do, and that is a key factor why I believe the momentum will shift in Apple’s favor, because of Apple’s reputation as someone who respects the privacy of their customers.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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BobbyB, flackcatcher, HiFlyer, bknight721, Bill C.

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I tend to agree and Tim Cook is making the right noises about privacy as well. Here’s an article I saw from the BBC

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-45963935

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HiFlyer, woody, Microfix, Bill C.

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This topic (Tim Cook’s latest remarks on Privacy as an Apple selling point) would make a good New Thread, don’t we think? But not in this Windows thread.

-- rc primak

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Someone else will have grabbed that spot, and Microsoft will likely never get their dominant spot back.

I remember when Chrome threw Firefox down the throne. I couldn’t believe nor understand why, but one thing is for sure: Firefox never got itself back up from it’s knees.

So yep, this can perfectly happen to Microsoft. Lets see what happens after Win EOL.

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In reality, the consumer, not Microsoft, is ultimately made responsible for beta testing.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
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HiFlyer

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I’m sad to see that things have come to this point, but I’m very happy to see all the negative articles (for a change) calling MS out and demanding change. I don’t expect them to listen yet, but, hopefully, the time is coming when they will.

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walker, rc primak, BobbyB, HiFlyer, Bill C., Seff, WildBill

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@AlexEiffel, since you mentioned 1809, another issue with 1809 has been reported on reddit and seemingly ignored: https://www.reddit.com/r/Windows10/comments/9qixam/1809_breaks_systemwide_font_substitution/

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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AlexEiffel, HiFlyer, PKCano, woody, geekdom

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Got it.

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Microfix

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I read it & he’s right. Even human testers can be short-sighted, particularly when it’s their own code. An internal review or QA process adds at least 1 more pair of eyes. Automated testing can only find what it’s told to look for. As for “Insiders”, unless there’s a wide-enough group to check multiple features and/or problems, they’re myopic. Only checking what they use or encounter on a regular basis. Until the testing issue can be resolved satisfactorily, MS should scale “feature” releases back to once a year… but they won’t. This makes them look “weak”. In the meantime, Win7 users will start moving to Chromebooks, Macs & Linux… definitely in 2019. These are consumer & small businesses, of course. Enterprise clients without enough clout to move will follow the forced migration to Win10 whatever. As for the 7-8% on Win8.1, we’ll move also… we just have 2-3 more years to do so. Less if Microsoft starts trying to break those systems after Win7 reaches end of life!

Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...

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rc primak, HiFlyer

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As for the 7-8% on Win8.1, we’ll move also… we just have 2-3 more years to do so. Less if Microsoft starts trying to break those systems after Win7 reaches end of life!

If and when that happens, there’ll be a Group W waiting for us. Specially if Win8 is running inside a VM with easy snapshots and roll backs. We already know M$ and their malpractices with Win7, so we are getting ourselves ready ahead of them.

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The article is spot on. A key part of the third stated change that is required – slow down – is, of course, putting back the scheduled end of support for Windows 7 until such time as there is a fully functioning and properly tested successor worthy of an upgrade.

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flackcatcher, HiFlyer

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Microsoft will continue to put out garbage as long as we continue to put up with it and buy and use it.

100% true. MS has ignored most if not all feedback for users. It will never get back to its good days.

As the expression goes, the lights are on, but no one is at home.

Total agree with that. No one over at MS has any mojo left. They are bring many of the old stuff that was already thought of or create new stuff base on old stuff but make it worse and worse.

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walker, HiFlyer, Bill C., Microfix, Canadian Tech

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Time for investors to start calling for changes in leadership.

Red Ruffnsore

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lanceboil, HiFlyer

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Mr. Natural wrote:

Time for investors to start calling for changes in leadership.

As long as the stock price goes up, the only thing you will hear from investors is crickets, more “buy” orders, and the sound of dividends and increased shareholder value. Only when the TRUE value of Win10 is exposed will corrections and changes occur.

However, do not forget, as a friend just told me, she does not understand what all the anti-Windows 10 rhetoric is, after all it “works for her,” and she has not had problems.

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HiFlyer

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Bill C. wrote:

Mr. Natural wrote:

Time for investors to start calling for changes in leadership.

As long as the stock price goes up, the only thing you will hear from investors is crickets, more “buy” orders, and the sound of dividends and increased shareholder value. 

Spot on. One of the fundamentals or marketing is that a company’s aim is to make profit. Microsoft’s business decisions are made on that basis. They listen to the profit margin, not complaining customers. As long as they have corporations on side, they know corporation staff will follow that lead.

Group A (but Telemetry disabled Tasks and Registry)
1) Dell Inspiron with Win 11 64 Home permanently in dock due to "sorry spares no longer made".
2) Dell Inspiron with Win 11 64 Home (substantial discount with Pro version available only at full price)

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Bill C, note that IBM stock stills sells well. Yet, as far as technology is concerned, they are a bit player, nothing like their previous selves.

Stock price has never been a reflection of the real value of a business.

CT

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HiFlyer

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Canadian Tech wrote:

Stock price has never been a reflection of the real value of a business.

But it is what investors care about, and as long as MS stock is soaring, they would fight to keep the status quo, not to upend it.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

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HiFlyer

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Ascaris, you are correct of course. That is exactly the problem. What drives the C suite at most businesses is the reward system — which rewards the C’s for stock price, not for building business.

CT

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Ascaris, HiFlyer

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I see Microsoft has performed well this year until October 3rd. It has been going down ever since then. (keeping fingers crossed)

Red Ruffnsore

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HiFlyer

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But Everything is going down in October, not just Microsoft.
Hear the pennies clinking on the sidewalk?
Retirees notice things like that!

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walker, BobbyB, dononline, HiFlyer, Mr. Natural, woody

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So do bloggers….

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Shhhhhh! Quiet don’t tell anyone!

Everything is fine. Nothing to worry about.

 

 

Red Ruffnsore

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HiFlyer

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A human does not have to be retired to notice those clinking sounds.

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It’s worth noting that El Reg Commentards, as Commenters there are known, are some of the most experienced IT and Dev folks showing up to share experience for free at any Tech site, Half the value at The Register is reading comments, so I recommend doing so. You also get dry Brit humour, so those with a low irony tolerance should probably ignore my recommendation.

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BobbyB, HiFlyer, Microfix

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I do on a daily basis and have been for years it’s highly addictive and entertainment value is up there.

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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BobbyB

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@microfix and @anon. definitely a good daily read it may be the overtly Sarcastic in me but I love the style on M$ topics its almost like a “Monty Python meets Microsnooze” and awesome great Technical, Scientific and other IT happenings. No Week is complete without starting Monday with an anecdote from “Who Me” and finishing the week with an hilarious tale from “On Call” of course the comments in there whilst funny have a certain directness that not be altogether welcome in here

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Mr. Natural wrote:

Shhhhhh! Quiet don’t tell anyone!  Everything is fine. Nothing to worry about.

Is that Bagdad Bob?

Edit to remove HTML

 

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Please note that this post is not a complaint about the moderation policies in these forums.

Microsoft does not have a monopoly on these flaws in the release cycle of its operating system.  A whole other thread has been started in the Linux forum area about Ubuntu Linux and its fast-release cycle. Some of their problems parallel those of Windows 10 only too closely lately. So criticizing Microsoft without mentioning other OS developers seems to me to be a bit biased, to say the least. I hope this paragraph is not too off-topic here.

Interestingly enough, the major web browsers (Firefox and Chrome) have release cycles which are just as fast, and yet their quality controls have (generally) been better than what Microsoft has achieved with Windows 10. I wonder what these other developers have been doing right which Microsoft might emulate? I think that would be a very productive discussion thread, though here it may be a bit off-topic. If this part of the discussion would  result in splitting off into a new topic, perhaps a link here could be provided?

Also of interest to me (but maybe also probably off-topic here) is the apparent fact that Apple’s MacOS and Google’s Android phone OS do not seem to find a need for fast-release cycles to stay relevant. So the suggestion in the article to just slow down may indeed be a possible way out for Microsoft with Windows development.  I may be wrong on this point, so I would appreciate anyone with more detailed Apple and Google knowledge chiming in, either here or in a more appropriate place in these forums. If elsewhere, perhaps a link here would be permitted?

-- rc primak

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I think it would be a very appropriate topic, and would love to see the links….

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If others agree, we may have some new threads to create. But I want to wait and see if anyone else sees these parallels and differences.

-- rc primak

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You could expand those parallels and differences more fully by starting a thread or two yourself, then returning here to drop a link for any one interested. Then you could pick the title and category.

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I think that’s a great idea.

@rc, want to start a new topic in the Linux or Mac or Android forum?

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Done. And I hope a couple of trashed replies from here will more officially find their way over there.

-- rc primak

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Cybertooth

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The Ubuntu LTS releases are great for slowing down, however I can say that there are hoops and tricks that maybe required to get hardware like Bluetooth to work again after switching to a Long Term Service release. Unable to figure out how that broke but it was good to see some positive results.

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M$’s main bread and butter come from the enterprises/companies/businesses who have been mostly locked into the Windows ecosystem by its market-monopoly since the 1990s. M$ has cunningly “protected” or immunized their bread and butter enterprises from the vagaries of new bug-ridden Win 10 releases/upgrades, eg by giving them a better Group Policy Editor and recently extending the EOL for new versions/releases of Win 10 Ent from 18 months to 24 months and then to 30 months. In effect, the enterprises can use an old version of Win 10 Ent for about 3 years before they are required by M$ to upgrade.
___ Hence, M$ is still able to make more profit$ in her latest Annual Financial Report, ie mostly from the trapped enterprises/companies/businesses who cannot escape from Windows or go out the Door.

In comparison, the expendable and “unprotected” or non-immunized consumers or users of Win 10 Home(= beta-testers) and Pro have to suffer the vagaries of new bug-ridden Win 10 releases/upgrades twice or once per year and M$ couldn’t care less because consumers are not their main bread and butter.

So, it’s unlikely that M$ will slow down the Win 10 upgrade cycle or reinstate the Windows Test Division.

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When Linux is mentioned in topic threads which start out being about Windows subjects, many Lounge users have complained that the original topic of the thread gets diluted and difficult to follow. So with this in mind…

I would like to split out some of our discussions about Ubuntu and its fast release cycle from this thread about Windows Fast Release Cycles and Windows Quality Controls.

Please follow me over here to continue any non-Windows discussions about fast release cycles. We can decide whether the Linux issues need to be further separated from Apple issues and other OS or web browser issues regarding fast-release cycles.

New Thread: Ubuntu Linux vs. Windows 10 Fast Releases
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/ubuntu-linux-vs-windows-10-fast-releases/#post-227157

-- rc primak

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PKCano, geekdom, Canadian Tech

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