Getting ready for upgrade to 20H2

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When I bought this computer a year ago, I was advised to “create a recovery drive” using the tool provided on Windows 10 and to do so about once a year.

So, it has been a year and I am probably going to move from v1909 to v20H2.  Windows 20H2 has been offered in Windows Update, but right now I have update on pause.

I think I read here that a “repair disk” is not necessary if I have a recovery drive.  I think I read whatever is on a repair disk is included in a recovery drive.

I just want to be sure.  If I make a fresh new recovery drive before I move to v20H2 is that enough?

I back up my computer files and image once a week with the Windows 7 backup program that is also on Windows 10.  So, I have that too.

I want to be sure I am safe if the upgrade to v20H2 fails or crashes.  I have never done this before.

HP Pavilion Desktop TP01-0050 – 64 bit
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[geekdom]

mpw wrote:

I think I read here that a “repair disk” is not necessary if I have a recovery drive. I think I read whatever is on a repair disk is included in a recovery drive.

Repair disk? Are you referring to an external stand-alone disk that will boot and allow you to access your backup files for system recovery?

Create an external stand-alone boot disk (system repair disc) Window 7/Windows 10:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/create-a-system-repair-disc-3b4640fd-d3da-3dce-8288-3121161c416e

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• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by geekdom.

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I don’t know.  I guess that is what I read here.  Can I boot my computer with a recovery drive.

If I also need to make a boot disk, where do I get get it?  What kind of disk do I need?

My back up files are on an external drive.

 

HP Pavilion Desktop TP01-0050 – 64 bit
Windows 10 Home Version 22H2
OS build 19045.5608
Windows Defender and Windows Firewall
Microsoft Office Home and Business 2019
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Recovery drive information:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/create-a-recovery-drive-abb4691b-5324-6d4a-8766-73fab304c246

Creating Bootable Rescue Disks

Bootable rescue disks permit booting when your system disk has been damaged. In my computers, I’ve configured the booting sequence to check for flash drives and CD/DVD first such that my system automatically boots to these if there is a disk or flash device in the drive. If the drives are empty, the system boots to the default hard drive. Your backups are not bootable; your rescue disks are bootable and come in two flavors: system repair disc (CD/DVD) and recovery drive (flash drive).

For 32-bit machines, you need a 32-bit rescue disk. For 64-bit machines, you need a 64-bit rescue disk. They don’t mix.

Read further here:
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/using-windows-10-backup-option/

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mpw

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Thank you.  I read this post and it was very helpful.  Creating the recovery drive took almost 2 hours.  See below.

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Regarding recovery backups.  When used for recovery if things go bad, do all/any of the recoveries also include 3rd party apps that had been installed?  Or do these apps need to be reinstalled ?

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If you create a FULL image backup of all partitions on your PC, which you should do (recovery partition, boot partition drive C: OS, D:data..) then the recovery/restore from image will recover everything.

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Thank you.  I have a 64bit recovery drive on a 32GB flash drive made last year.  I think I will make a new, current recovery drive using the windows 10 tool like I did last year.

Then say a prayer, click resume updates and then click upgrade to 20H2 that is offered.  (I know some February patches may have to load first.)

I can come back here on my old Windows 7 lap top computer to read the links you provided if I need to use the recovery drive as I know I won’t recall the steps.

HP Pavilion Desktop TP01-0050 – 64 bit
Windows 10 Home Version 22H2
OS build 19045.5608
Windows Defender and Windows Firewall
Microsoft Office Home and Business 2019
-Version 2502(Build 18526.20168 C2R)

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note that the home & pro editions of Win10 v1909 will go out of support (aka. “end of service” or “end of life” or simply EOL) this May 2021, so do make a recovery drive before attempting the upgrade to Win10 20H2

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New recovery drive took about 2 hours, maybe a little less.  Upgrade to 20H2 took about 1 ½ hours.  No obvious problems yet.

Printer/Scanner seems to work better, faster.  Less spinning icon.

All my desk top icons seem to be present.

I have something called a Windows Feature Experience Pack which is, I guess, a bunch of Apps.

So far so good.

Hope I can keep this version for a while.  Hate this process, but I must say it went very well and no hiccups.  Yet.

HP Pavilion Desktop TP01-0050 – 64 bit
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mpw wrote:

New recovery drive took about 2 hours

I create a new image in about 20 minutes using a 3rd party app.
Recovery boot USB takes 5 to 10 minutes from the same app.

Do you have loads of data for it to take that long?

cheers, Paul

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I thought that was odd too.  It had been a year, but I did not think it took that long the first time either.  The first time when I used Win10 tool to create a recovery drive for v1909 it took about what you say – 20 minutes.

I do not have a lot of programs and files.  I have files on my D drive, Pictures and Documents, but they occupy only 1% of the 931 GB HD drive.  Don’t really need a 1 T HD drive, that is just what came with the computer.  It is 99% free space.

And anyway, I thought the recovery drive only involved the C drive.  The C drive is an SSD drive and has a capacity of 237 GB and is 69% free.

The flash drive I used shows a capacity of 29 GB and is 61% free.  The used space of the recovery drive is 11.4 GB.  It is a Fat32 file system if that matters.  It was also new last year and was not used at all for a year until I made a new recovery drive yesterday.   It is a PNY USB 3.0 FD.

Also, I did not use computer while this was going on.  Only thing happening was the creation of the recovery drive.

I would like your thoughts on why it took so long.  Any ideas?

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mpw wrote:

It is a PNY USB 3.0 FD

No wonder it’s slow. Flash drives are not designed for the sustained speed of a backup, especially if you are writing over an existing backup. Get a USB HDD instead.

cheers, Paul

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What is a USB HDD?  I have an external hard drive that I collect my backups on once a week.  If that is what you mean, I don’t want to create a recovery drive on that because the Win10 tool to create a recovery drive says it will erase everything.

I don’t think I understand.

Also, the recovery drive I now have on PNY USB 3.0 FD is for v1909 before the upgrade. I think I need to create one for 20H2 now also.  So I need to know what a USB HDD is.

 

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mpw wrote:

So I need to know what a USB HDD is.

That is what you have. An external hard drive (spinning platters=HDD) that connect via a USB port. You need that to store your backups on. You use a bootable USB Flash drive for a rescue “disk.”

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mpw

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Get a USB SSD, they’re cheap now and faster than most USB flash drives.  You don’t need a 1TB drive, 256 or 512GB drives are fine for moving stuff around.  A plain old mechanical HDD doesn’t make much sense these days except for servers with arrays of gigantic SSD’s because they’re still somewhat limited by total size.

USB SSD, good deal:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/ADATA-Premium-SE800-Series-512GB-Black-External-SSD-USB-3-1-XBOX-PS4-Compatible/392450622916?hash=item5b5fe145c4:g:AKsAAOSwfhde-mPf

Here’s a fast as SSD USB Flash Drive.  You get convenience, small size and no cable for a higer price per GB.  I have one of these, they settle down at the same speed as my SSD’s writing similar file sizes.  Kinda big is all.

https://www.ebay.com/p/25031082161?iid=253210772507

External USB SSD’s are all similar in speed; Flash drives vary a lot, definitely not all the same.

 

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PKCano wrote:

bootable USB Flash drive for a rescue “disk.”

Too many similar terms.

I created a recovery drive on a USB Flash drive using Windows 10 tool called, “Create a Recovery Drive”.

If I want a repair disc, I use “Create a System Repair Disc” from Backup and Restore (Windows 7) on a DVD.

Are these two different things?  Or are they the same thing, just one downloaded to a  a flash drive and one downloaded to a disc?

So, then there is also a “bootable USB Flash drive for a rescue “disk.”  And now I am confused.

Is the Recovery Drive I have a  “bootable USB Flash drive for a rescue “disk.”

HP Pavilion Desktop TP01-0050 – 64 bit
Windows 10 Home Version 22H2
OS build 19045.5608
Windows Defender and Windows Firewall
Microsoft Office Home and Business 2019
-Version 2502(Build 18526.20168 C2R)

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If you have recovery “drive” that’s on a USB Flash drive it does the same thing as a recovery “drive” does on a DVD. So I think you have what you need.

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mpw

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[geekdom]

mpw wrote:

I created a recovery drive on a USB Flash drive using Windows 10 tool called, “Create a Recovery Drive”. If I want a repair disc, I use “Create a System Repair Disc” from Backup and Restore (Windows 7) on a DVD. Are these two different things? Or are they the same thing, just one downloaded to a a flash drive and one downloaded to a disc?

They have the same function: they boot up when your system won’t boot. They are both  rescue disks.

mpw wrote:

So, then there is also a “bootable USB Flash drive for a rescue “disk.” And now I am confused.

This bootable flash drive is the recovery drive. The bootable CD/DVD is a system repair disc.

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• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by geekdom.
• This reply was modified 4 years, 3 months ago by geekdom.

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mpw

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So, it has been three weeks since I created a recovery drive on a USB Flash drive using Windows 10 tool called, “Create a Recovery Drive”.  That was for Windows 10 v 1909.

I have been using Windows 10 20H2 and it is working.  So, I think I should make a recovery drive for my current operating system.

I want to use the same PNY USB 3.0 FD.  I don’t think I need the v 1909 anymore.  I can’t think why I would want to go back to that.

Is there any reason to keep v 1909 any longer?

I know the new recovery drive will take a long time if it also has to write over the existing v1909 recovery drive.  But I don’t want to buy a new flash drive every time I do this.

Is it OK to create a recovery drive for my current operating system now?

 

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Uh. This seems very complicated. I use Macrium reflect free. When you install that, the program in Other Tasks/Create rescue media will create an iso. I burn that iso to a USB stick (flash drive) with Rufus. That is my bootable rescue disk on a stick. Each of these steps is very quick. I use USB3 sticks so when I boot from them  they are fairly fast.

Every so often I start Macrium (on windows 10) and create an image of my SSD (10 minutes) onto a spindle (external USB)( USB3 to Sabrent 4-port extension to Sabrent dual bay HD docking station, into which I can plug an “internal” 2.5″ or 3.5″  SATA HD. This one happens to be 2T so I can keep a bunch of images on there. Each image is about 60-100GB in size depending on what I have on my SSD at the time.

So lets say normally I might make an image twice a month. Actually I take one whenever I am about to make some change that might screw things up (I NEVER rely on windows 10 to be able to remove an update or anything). So I take one just before I do my windows updates, one month late, just before patch Tuesday, because it mightl screw things up. If I have to go back, I just stick in the Macrium rescue disk, boot to it, and restore the entire SSD, Or I could just restore the opsys partition along with the 3 or 4 little MS files (recovery, EFT, boot,etc.)

I never use incremental and I never use the auto delete feature.

If this helps, cool. If not, just ignore it.

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You’re right.  That is way more complicated than I expected.  And all about programs and equipment I don’t have.

I have a Windows 10 v20H2 operating system. It has a tool to Create a Recovery Drive.  Said Recovery Drive is a bootable rescue drive.  It is for emergencies when my computer won’t boot.  Nothing like that has ever happened to me.

I’m just asking if now that the upgrade to 20H2 is working smoothly and I don’t think I will ever want to go back to v1909, should I create a Recovery Drive for the new 20H2 upgrade?

I want to use the same USB flash drive that currently holds v1909.

Is there any reason not to overwrite the 1909 recovery drive and replace it with a new 20H2 recovery drive on the USB flash drive?

 

 

 

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I have a Windows 10 v20H2 operating system. It has a tool to Create a Recovery Drive.  Said Recovery Drive is a bootable rescue drive.  It is for emergencies when my computer won’t boot.

Are you talking about the option that’s listed in the Backup and Restore (Windows7) area on the left side of the window that says “Create a system repair disc” or “Create a system image” or are you talking about an option that’s presented by third party software such as Macrium or Acronis?

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Type the word create in the search box.  It will automatically complete to Create a Recovery Drive.  That is what I am talking about.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/create-a-recovery-drive-abb4691b-5324-6d4a-8766-73fab304c246

 

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Nice! I did not know about that feature! Really easy to get to. Doesn’t look like it’s tied into any of the other utilities either!

R/

Bob99

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A recovery drive can include the original system image from the computer manufacturer. It does usually take a couple hours to create. Put’s the machine back to when you bought it. I create them for clients to save and use drive images thereafter.

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You can reuse your USB drive without issue. No need to buy another one.

As always, test boot from the recovery USB.

cheers, Paul

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mpw

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Paul T wrote:

As always, test boot from the recovery USB.

I have never done that.  I don’t want to mess up my working computer.  How do you test without the computer starting to recover?

Is there a step by step somewhere on the internet where I can learn to test and the computer not go into recovery?  Would appreciate the link.

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See this post: https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/backing-up-my-computer/#post-2345046

USB = CD for your test.

cheers, Paul

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mpw

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Sorry for slow reply.

So things are a little different now in 20H2.

1. Insert the USB.
2. Click the Windows flag and hover over Shutdown.
3. Hold down the Shift key and click Restart.
4. From the “Choose an option” screen select “Use a device”.
5. From use a device screen

Choices: UEFI: CD/DVD drive

UEFI: Removeable device

UEFI: network device

I chose Removeable device and the USB flash drive started blinking and a screen came up asking me to choose a keyboard layout.  Now I am afraid Windows 10 on Recovery drive is about to load. But there is no going back so I chose US keyboard layout.

Then several options appeared and I chose EXIT to Windows 10 and I was back  to my desk top.

I think USB Recovery drive did restart my computer.  So I am good to go, but it was an un-nerving experience.

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mpw

I have never done that. I don’t want to mess up my working computer. How do you test without the computer starting to recover?

You can’t start to recover if you don’t opt to recover.
You check out the options available for access, then use the Exit and continue to Windows 10 (Continue) tab to restart into Windows 10.

Using the:
1. Insert the CD.
2. Click the Windows flag and hover over Shutdown.
3. Hold down the Shift key and click Restart.
4. From the “Choose an option” screen select “Use a device”.
5. Select the CD.

. . . . is only part of the testing procedure.
If you can’t Boot the machine, then no ‘Windows Flag’ is there to access shutdown as it isn’t started.
You need to test the Recovery Drive (USB Flash) from a machine that is not turned on also.
Click the image below to see what I mean. I have used the applicable ASUS F8 ‘Boot Menu’ key in the video to access the Boot Menu and then to select the Recovery Flash Drive in the menu. Most modern systems have the key to use but manufactures, for reasons I cannot fathom, use different keys or a combination of keys to access the Boot Menu.

Booting to the Boot Menu and BIOS
https://kb.nmsu.edu/page.php?id=80139
https://www.disk-image.com/faq-bootmenu.htm
http://www.boot-disk.com/quest_bootmenu.htm

Note 1: You can also enter the UEFI/BIOS to change the Boot order so it Boots from the Flash Drive directly to test it, but I’m reluctant to advise on that part as I have done it before from a distance (over the phone) and instructed the ‘listener’ to do not do anything without my say so to avoid mistakes that can brick a machine.
I told him what we were going to do, from start to finish and reminded him again of the consequences of doing something wrong.
I advised we do ‘This, That, then The Other’, accept the changes, then save in that order, but for reasons known to him, he did ‘That, The Other, then This, accepted the changes, then saved and bricked the machine.
It cost him (locally) a lot of money to get it in a working state again. He was actually ripped off, but many folks are when they go to some so called professionals who rely on a customer knowing little about their machine and system etc.

Note 2: A more accurate test of using the Recovery Drive is to actually go through a Recovery process/option(s) to see how it works and if it actually recovers/troubleshoots etc as intended.
Most folk don’t go down that root as a test for fear it fails and causes issues.
‘Their’ test is when they actually can’t start their machine for reasons unknown and try a Recovery Drive with fingers crossed.

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mpw

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Yeah, too much needless complication here.  What you’re doing is fine.

There are many ways to do this.  Having done it (upgrading windows a few versions at once) more than a few times and never, ever had a blue screen or unrecoverable disaster occur, I’d guess those who have, have made it far too complicated, used third party backup software for ugrades (huh?), have existing hardware problems or used non-MS sources.

Here’s my very simple method.

Make a usb Windows ISO from here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

Pick Installation media for another PC with usb flash drive, run installation tool, unplug usb, go OFFLINE, turn off PC, plug in usb, turn on PC and go.

After it’s done,unplug the USB and go back online if you want.  Repeat on your eight other computers.

That’s it!

The more I learn about Windows, the less value utilities give.

 

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mpw

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Pick Installation media for another PC with usb flash drive, run installation tool, unplug usb, go OFFLINE, turn off PC, plug in usb, turn on PC and go.

. . . . and go! – are you not missing a bit of vital information like how to Boot from the inserted USB Flash Drive so it actually Boots from the USB Flash Drive, then allows it to Go?

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mpw,

IMHO, the thing that’s making things more complicated is your inability to make another recovery drive on your current USB flash drive using Win 10 “Create a Recovery Drive.” If you were to use the FREE version of ANY of the 3rd party backup programs discussed here (Macrium Reflect, EaseUS Todo, AOMEI Backupper), you could create as many backups on the same USB external HDD or SSD as you desire (limited, of course, by drive space). This includes differential (partial) backups of only what has changed since your last full backup.

Even if you keep your current backup on your current flash drive, do yourself a favor and check one of these programs out. (You WILL need to create a “bootable flash recovery drive” containing the program and a Win 10 environment to boot from, but this can be used over & over).

As Ive said in other threads, “Don’t fear the Reaper (if you have a good backup)”.

Zig

P.S. See the “Maintenance and backups” Forum.

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mpw

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I use the Windows 7 backup tool still available on Windows 10.  I have been using it for years and it is familiar and works for me.  I know most people on this blog prefer other backup tools but I prefer to stick with what I know.

My USB Flash drive now has a recent Recovery Drive which I will keep in a safe place for another year and hope I never need it.  The guy at Best Buy, who sold me this computer, said he makes a new Recovery Drive about once a year.  I don’t know why.

My computer did boot from my 20H2 Recovery Drive see

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/getting-ready-for-upgrade-to-20h2/#post-2350120

I am not putting my backups on a flash drive.  I have a WD Easystore external hard drive.  Every Saturday I back up my computer files, C drive and D data drive, and system image using the Windows 7 tool.  I hope I never need them either but I have them as well.

Still angry and frustrated I had to give up Windows 7 operating system and even angrier everything has to be so complicated.

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Windows 10 Home Version 22H2
OS build 19045.5608
Windows Defender and Windows Firewall
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-Version 2502(Build 18526.20168 C2R)

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