How can a cord-cutter with an old analog TV get digital local channels?

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[OscarCP]

Well, today it happened!

I have hardly watched TV for the last three years, replacing it with streaming shows and also news over the Internet. But I have been paying good money for it to Verizon, that gave me access to some 600 cable channels I really do not need to watch anymore. Except, now and then, for local stations’ programs and local news. So I asked to have the TV service discontinued, keeping the Internet and my trusty land-line.

A Verizon technician came today and disconnected my ca. 1995 analogue TV from the Verizon FIOS (fiber-optics) network. (He also replaced my old Verizon router with a new one.)

So now it is official and definite and done: my TV cord has been cut, chopped off, it is gone, it’s no more!

And I’ll be saving nearly US$1000 a year as a result. With upgraded up and down internet connection speeds as well as a year-long free subscription to the Disney Bundle (including also Hulu and other streaming services owned now days by Disney.)
None of which, besides no more TV, I had asked for, but got anyways, along with the abovementioned annual savings.

Now I have an inactive old analog TV, a “Zenith” circa 1995 that works fine, but even with rabbit ears would not be able to display over-the-air local programming, because this is coded in a digital format. The Verizon set top box that did translate digital cable to analogue, is now gone in exchange for the aforementioned savings. And I prefer to keep using the old TV, rather than to buy a new one that is designed to receive digital transmissions. Assuming the difference in the cost of keeping old vs. buying new TV is not going to be a telling issue against this idea.

I think there is some kind of set top box translator, digital-to-analogue, that can be installed between the rabbit ears (or any sort of decent indoors antenna) and the old TV. Anyone giving useful advice and information on what is available that may work well shall have my deepest thanks.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

• This topic was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by OscarCP.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by OscarCP.
• This topic was modified 2 years, 10 months ago by OscarCP.

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Answer: ‘Digital Converter Box’. Amazon, Best Buy, etc.
Caution: Be sure that the output is coax.
Some converters may be HDMI, which a 27-year old TV won’t have.
Converter output is switchable (a manual switch on the box) between channels 3 and 4. You’ll set your TV to that channel. TV channel tuning is via the remote for the converter.
A shallow wave of the hand is adequate; thank you.

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PaulK, Thanks for your quick answer. But I need an explanation about the following:

“Converter output is switchable (a manual switch on the box) between channels 3 and 4. You’ll set your TV to that channel.”

What is”channel 3 or 4″?

And what is the difference between those two?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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The converter box gets the input from the antenna and it is set up to scan for all of those over the air local channels.  Then the output goes to the tv and you pick EITHER channel 3 or 4 (doesn’t matter which one) on the TV and that’s where the tv stays at.

If you want to change channels, you then use the remote with the converter box to pick over the air channels.

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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OscarCP

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It would be helpful to first identify what connections you have available in the back of your TV. Once you’ve checked that out, compare what you have with the info on these FCC.gov web pages. It’s likely that you never sent for the free converter box that the government offered back when they mandated the demise of analog TV broadcasts.

https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/digital-analog-converter-box-setup-basic
https://www.fcc.gov/consumers/guides/digital-analog-converter-box-setup-viewing-analog-and-digital-broadcasts

BTW, do you have a *decent* TV antenna that you can use????

Here also will be web site to get familiar with (it will help you orient your antenna properly) —

https://www.tvfool.com

 

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Charlie

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Susan and owburp, thanks for your very helpful replays.

I also have some other points I would like someone here to comment, if so inclined:

Indoor antenna: any ideas of which type may be best to use, in my case? Over the air reception OK for FM, AM and short-wave radio, but unknown for TV. Because of very low volume demand?

Looking up set top converter boxes in Amazon, I must say these things are unexpectedly cheap, prices ranging 20 –  30 US$.

Some of the boxes there might be like what I need: no HDMI or USB or RCA ports in my TV, so it has to be plain coaxial in from antenna, coaxial out to TV. Not always clear from the product description (or if the box comes with the coaxial cables or not, or if the coaxial connectors are BNC, as needed here, or not).

Coaxial alone probably does not give stereo sound, but if the mono is the sum of left and right audio channels, that’s OK for me.

But is it?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
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Amazon.com: HDTV Antenna – August DTA240 – Indoor/Outdoor Portable Digital Aerial with Magnetic Base 6.5 feet Coax Cable 50 Miles Range : Electronics

That is actually a great antenna

Susan Bradley Patch Lady/Prudent patcher

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OscarCP

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50 miles maybe depending on mountains, valleys and height of the antenna as well as orientation of broadcast antenna.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Indoor antenna: any ideas of which type may be best to use, in my case? Over the air reception OK for FM, AM and short-wave radio, but unknown for TV.

To help in answering that question, take a look at the tvfool.com web site I mentioned above. Plug in your info and get the graph and chart of the stations in your area. Find the TV stations you are most interested in watching and see which direction they are in from your location. Hopefully, they all come from essentially the same direction (you’ll have a much harder time if some are in one direction and others are in the opposite direction). Note that direction in your mind and then take a look outside your window. Do you have buildings or trees or hills that would block the TV signal from getting to you? For example, I have a huge oak tree in my back yard that is directly in the path to the transmitting tower and it’s less of a problem in Winter than in the Summer when wet leaves can cause all sorts of havoc with the signals.

The higher up you can mount your antenna, the more likely you’ll get a better signal. TV signal-wise, living on the ground floor of an apartment building surrounded by high rises would horrendously worse than living up in the penthouse (of course, if you lived up in a penthouse, you’d be a lot less likely to be screwing around with antennas, but I digress).

And there’s another potential problem — the TV channels you watch might be high-VHF as opposed to the more common UHF. Once again, refer to the TVFool chart for your area. The left most column gives you two numbers — the one that you most likely recognize is the “virtual” channel, while the one in parentheses is the channel it transmits on. If that number in parentheses is below 14, then your desired channel is broadcasting in the VHF band and your antenna has to be capable of picking up that kind of signal. Many of the advertised “HD” antennas will only pick up UHF frequencies. Check to make sure the one you get will pick up VHF if any of your desired stations are transmitting in that band.

Or, of course, you can look up some YouTube videos on how to build your own antenna … Not a bad idea really if you are willing to put one together yourself (even with coat hangers and scrap wood). And they do work!

Coaxial alone probably does not give stereo sound, but if the mono is the sum of left and right audio channels, that’s OK for me.

But is it?

Wild guess … All the time you had your cable/Fios setup, you had no problem with the sound coming out of your TV then. And guess what? That signal coming out of that cable box fed into your TV through the same coax connector. The signal you get from your over-the-air setup isn’t going to be appreciably better or worse. I mean, how much hi-fi can you expect to get out of tinny TV speakers anyway????

 

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wavy

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owburp: Thanks for the advice, that is mostly on point for me. I’ll keep all that well in mind.

As to the sound issue: is not about the sound quality, it is about whether I’ll hear everything or mostly just one half of it.

As to the antenna type: it is literally about the antenna type, the hardware itself: rabbit ears, or some other type, perhaps with an UHF RF amplifier to boost the signal and match impedances? Etc.

It is to be installed indoors. So it is not going to be a yogi on a tall mast, above a house,  but something siting on top of the set top box on top of the TV. Probably with an omnidirectional antenna pattern, or one with maximum lobes that can be pointed by moving either the antenna, or parts of it around to better catch a particular station to watch a program there at a given time.

And certainly there are big trees and tall buildings in the general south-eastern direction where most local stations have their transmitters relative to my place. And I do not live in a penthouse, but only in the six floor of a seventeen-story high raise. There is nothing I can do about any of this. If buying the antenna and decoder set top box is cheap enough and this does not work out, I’ll be left no worse off than I am now.

So I would like to give this a try and see what happens.

In the worst case, I might not be able to watch local TV, but I’ll still be saving about  US$960 every year by not paying for something that I do not need and do not use, unlike what has been the case for several years already. All this thanks to a positive change of policy by my ISP.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

I do not live in a penthouse, but only in the six floor of a seventeen-story high raise

Actually, that’s way better than your typical residential antenna!

The sixth floor puts you 60 ft above the ground whereas the antennas for most homes are only 25 ft above the ground. The higher up you are, the better your reception will be, especially for stations that are further away.

I live on the 3rd floor of an apartment and get a total of 51 different stations from as far away as 54 miles using a Winegard Flatwave FL5500A amplified indoor antenna (available from Amazon, Home Depot, or Lowes for $60)

Your problems will…

Are there any taller buildings/hills “directly” in the path from your apartment to the transmitting antennas for the stations (the farther away they are, the less they’ll effect the signal strength.)

Will the signal have to go thru your “whole building” to get to your apartment (the more walls it has to got thru, the weaker it’ll be.)

BTW, the best placement for an indoor antenna isn’t on top of the TV itself but in a window or against the wall that actual faces the transmitters for the stations you want to receive.

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alejr, There is one high building that might or might not be directly on the way of a transmission from one local station, but it’s hard to say. In any case, there are going to be multipath (TV ghosts) because of echoes off buildings and, now and then, off airplanes or helicopters on a landing approach to an airfield nearby.

I am right now looking forward to hearing about some recommended indoor antennas likely to work decently under less than ideal conditions I can’t do anythig about. I intend to test a combination of such an indoor antenna + a digital analogue-converter TV set-top box, if such a combination is not too expensive. (At least the set-top box seems to be on the cheap side.)

If it works, it works. If it doesn’t, it doesn’t.

So such good indoor antennas that also can have their output connected with a coaxial cable to the digital to analogue set-top box is what I hope some might recommend here.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

In any case, there are going to be multipath (TV ghosts) because of echoes off buildings and, now and then, off airplanes or helicopters on a landing approach to an airfield nearby.

While digital signals “can” suffer multipath interference, they’re a lot more resistant to it and it doesn’t appear as a “ghost image” like the old analog signals. When it happens, it’ll appear as momentary pixellation and/or freezing of the image or, if it’s bad enough, complete lose of signal for a short time.

The main TV signals I watch also cross thru a nearby airport’s landing approach but the only times I’ve had it happen to me where it was even noticeable are when there are storms in the local area.

OscarCP wrote:

So such good indoor antennas that also can have their output connected with a coaxial cable to the digital to analogue set-top box is what I hope some might recommend here.

Every new antenna currently being sold uses a coax cable to carry the signal from the antenna to the TV/Converter box (the days of the old “2 wire” flat antenna cables are dead & gone.) In fact, some of them (like the Winegard I use) come with a “extra long” coax cable (18.5 ft on mine) and an “in-line” amp powered by the same sort of USB power adapter used to recharge cell phones.

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“Assuming the difference in the cost of keeping old vs. buying new TV is not going to be a telling issue against this idea.”

Personally, I think a new TV would be the way I would do it.  Also if your old TV isn”t widescreen (16 x 9 aspect) then how will you deal with the wrong aspect ratios?

Anyway, if no new TV, then you need a RF modulator device with a RF output and a HDMI input.  This unit (or multiple units) would have a F type female RF connector that would allow you to hook a cable between it and the other F connector on the back of yor TV.

Then you would plug in a Google Chrome Cast device into the HDMI input.

https://store.google.com/us/config/chromecast_google_tv?hl=en-US

What this essentially does is make your old TV into a smart TV since the Chromecast device has “Apps” built into it which allows you to stream content.

The last step is to use the YouTube TV app (built in) to basically give you all the content you would have on cable….including local stations.  The content or channels depends on your area.  YouTube TV is a service (like Hulu) that has a monthly cost, but much less than cable based TV.

Note that a new smart TV gives you this option without the extra hardware, but with built in apps (like YouTube TV) and a 16 x 9 widescreen.  Light years more modern.

As suggested by others above, the only other way is to use an antenna and some sort of input switching on the TV.

Mike

 

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OscarCP

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Mike, Thanks, but buying a new TV given my less than ideal over-the-air receiving conditions is probably not a thing I would like to spend money on. Besides, this is not something I really need, but something I would like to have for seeing local TV now and then, mostly to watch the odd show and for local news.

My idea is to try with an indoor antenna that is recommended as having a shot at providing a more or less viewable picture on my old TV, plus a set-top digital to analogue converter. The latter I already know that can be inexpensive. As to the 4:3 aspect factor: I ‘ll either get a black bar on top and another at the bottom, or miss something on the right and something on the  left of the picture. I’m OK with that.

Please, see also my reply to alejr, a bit further up from this one.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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As far as antennas go, what alejr posted is excellent advice and are things to keep in mind. What I would add to that is that whatever antenna you wind up getting, it would be ideal if you could return it if it doesn’t work for you. Some antennas will work great in certain situations but not in others. What works for alejr and for Susan might not work for you, but their recommendations/usage are good starting points for you to try. (and both antennas will pick up high-VHF as well as UHF signals)

And keep in mind that old real estate saying about location, location, location — I have a home built antenna that I have used on two different setups. One setup, at one end of the house on a higher level, works great with the antenna (taking seasons into account; better reception when there are fewer wet leaves being blown about on trees) while that same antenna at the other end on a lower level struggles to get any kind of stable signal. Same antenna, different location, night and day with reception. The one rule to always keep in mind is to try to place the antenna as close as possible to the window or wall that is closest to the transmitter. The TV set’s tuner comes into play as well; some tuner’s are more sensitive than others. So the bottom line, unfortunately, is that it’s a crap shoot whether the antenna you get will work as well as you would like.

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Owburp: What indoor antenna do you use?

alejr: What Winegar antenna do you use?

https://winegard.com/at-home/hdtv-digital-antennas/indoor/

Looking at what Winegard has on offer in their Website, it looks like the flat-sheet “amped” one might be OK (does “amped” mean that it comes with with an RF amplifier to boost the received signal and match impedance with the coaxial connection?) One thing I did not understand, watching the video, is how does on stick this floppy square antenna to the wall: does it have some glue on its back?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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My two antennas were modeled after the very first antenna I made based on a YouTube video very much like this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKynS43OCiI

Instead of the coat hangers I used originally, my current ones use aluminum wire off a spool of the kind used to hang dropped ceiling tiles but the wood is still what ever scrap pieces I have laying in the garage. The one sitting in the attic gets great reception (though it is still sensitive at times to severe weather outside) and is cabled through the attic over to the computer room which is on the far side of the house away from the transmitters (there is NO spot within the room that will pick up a usable signal). The one in the back bedroom (that’s the antenna that sometimes gets shuttled to the dining room on certain occasions) gets pretty decent reception for it being placed in a lower level but is further away from the big oak tree in the backyard.

I had, way back in the beginning, purchased a Philips “HD Antenna” and it was a disaster. NO VHF reception at all off of it so I was missing several of my desired stations. From that point on, I decided to build my own.

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Interesting the idea of making your own. I am definitely not a DIY person, and live in an apartment building with 11 apartments above mine and six below (not counting what is in the “Lobby” ground floor and a semi-underground level below, housing the maintenance office, deposits, machines room, etc.) All seventeen apartments with the same floor plan, forming one “tier” of the building, so no attic.

I would be happy, once I have some recommendations of what might work well by way of indoor antenna, to go buy that and the decoder box, probably altogether considerably less than $200, from what I’ve been seeing. After that, the plan is as follows: Putting antenna and converter box together, connecting box to the TV, trying to set up the TV and position the antenna  to get a sufficient choice of received stations. Then seeing what I got.

If it works, fine. If it doesn’t, (slightly less) fine too.

But I still need some more indoor antenna recommendations before I take the first of those steps.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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From what I gather based on your description of the apartment, your “tier” allows you window access to all compass directions. in other words, if the main TV channels you are interested in are coming from one general direction, you have a window that points in that direction. Now the question is where is your TV situated in relation to that window? If it is at the opposite side of the apt, then you have a choice of moving the TV or running a cable from that window or room to where the TV is located. Setting up the antenna in that room, or better, right at that window, will most likely get the strongest signal for those stations.

Once you have the room and the window, you can now choose an antenna that will allow for the easiest mounting. Susan’s antenna suggestion has a magnetic base. If you have a tall cabinet in that room near the window or something metal that will hold that antenna, that one might be a good starting point.

If, on the other hand, you have a window facing the proper direction and you don’t mind a flat rectangular object stuck to it, the antenna that alejr has might work nicely.

Both of those antennas appear to be omnidirectional, so you won’t have to “aim” the antenna. That’s one of the upsides. The downside might be not being capable of drawing in the strongest signal. That old saying of “Your mileage may vary” applies very much in the case of setting up these antennas.

How you get the cable from the antenna in the room or at the window over to your TV is a question you have to answer for yourself.

This is the approach that comes to my mind. I’m sure there are plenty of others.

 

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OscarCP

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OscarCP wrote:

alejr: What Winegar antenna do you use?

As I posted previously, it’s the Winegard Flatwave FL5500A amplified indoor antenna.

OscarCP wrote:

does “amped” mean that it comes with with an RF amplifier to boost the received signal and match impedance with the coaxial connection?

Yes! The small white box seen at the bottom of this picture is the amp.

They also sell the same antenna without an amp (Winegard Flatwave FL-5000 indoor antenna $30) but it only picks up signals out to 40 miles and the coax cable is only 15 ft long. For me, that wasn’t good enough to pickup the main TV stations I wanted to watch which were +45 miles away.

Of course those mileage figures dependent on how strong a signal a station is broadcasting and any obstructions between it and your antenna, so YMMV.

OscarCP wrote:

how does on stick this floppy square antenna to the wall: does it have some glue on its back?

They come with two 3M Command Strips for mounting to walls/windows. If mounting to a wall, you can also simply “push” some thumb tacks/thumb pins thru the plastic areas at the top that aren’t part of the antenna (those “very white” areas in the above image are the actual antenna wires.)

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OscarCP

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Thanks for all your answers that have given me, in a surprisingly short time, a good idea of what I might have to do to get my old TV receiving local stations over the air (to the extent that may be possible, given my location), now that I have had the Verizon FIOS “cable” TV disconnected and I am going to start saving close to  US$1000 per year (plus a promotion: access to the full Disney+ Bundle free for one year). And, without my asking for it, I’ve had also my service upgraded to from some 60Mbps to around 1 Gbps (up and down). I really don’t need that, but I’m not about to complain, as after this upgrade I am still making those 1K$ per year savings.

One thing where I still would like more suggestions is buying the indoor antenna, meaning the actual hardware: the brand, the reasons for recommending it, and who sells it.

Looking forward to that, with thanks in advance for some more good antenna suggestions.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Remember, though, Oscar, that you will still need a converter box to convert these over the air digital signals to the analog signal your TV is expecting. This was mentioned to you in the first two replies you got at the beginning of this thread from @PaulK and @sb (Susan).

In summary, after you get both the antenna of your choice and the digital to analog converter box of your choice, plug the antenna into the box’s input and the box’s output into the TV’s input and tune the TV to either channel 3 or 4 (again, your choice) and you should be all set.

Then you can enjoy the sight of all that money not leaving your wallet!  🙂

BTW, we just took our 1993 Magnavox 19 inch color TV to recycling after no longer being able to decently see the images on the screen we have been getting from our cable provider. Replaced it with a 32″ TV that does just the minimum we need it to do, which is to watch TV in a second bedroom, usually CSPAN and the local university’s channel we have on cable.

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The rabbit ears antenna may be enough.  You may need a 300 to 75 ohm balun (~$3 us) depending on the converter antenna input. Walmart link

Win 11 home - 24H2
Attitude is a choice...Choose wisely

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OscarCP

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Thanks to you all!

Just now I took my money in my hands and went and bought in Amazon a Philips rabbit ears antenna and a Zenith DTT901 digital/analogue converter.

Both the coaxial output of the antenna and the input of the converter box are 75 ohm, so no adapter is needed. I did not buy the converter box because it is a Zenith and my old analogue TV is also a Zenith, but because I liked the way the box is programmed, as explained in the manual, that I found separately doing a search on the Web.
It has a coaxial connection for video and (mono) sound, besides of one for separate video and stereo audio, that my TV does not have, so I do not need. It also has an “analogue pass-through” feature, where if one turns off the box, it will let through to the TV set stations that are still transmitting in analogue mode: some low power stations may be like that, I understand. Probably no around here, but one never knows.

I’ll be getting the antenna and the box next week, so then I’ll find out if I : (1) can watch all local TV; (2) can’t watch some local TV; (3) can watch snow.

I missed Susan’s advice on which antenna to buy, so if the rabbit ears proves unequal to the task, I’ll buy the one she has recommended. It’s some US$10, so I’ll probably live after that.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Rabbit ears should work, as they were designed to receive VHF and UHF. Digital DTV broadcasts are using the two existing TV frequency spectrums, either VHF and UHF. Refer to your local stations info for the details of their broadcast type.

The old-school rabbit ears were a hybrid of both types, the dipole antenna was used to receive the VHF frequencies (2-13), and the loop antenna was for the UHF frequencies (above 13).

The modern flat style antennas are typically UHF only, so if any of your local stations are broadcasting in VHF, those will be a no go.

The other tips mentioned earlier will apply as well. This was just added info regarding the antenna type.

Where I live, the stations within a 10 mile range are good, but those that are 20 miles or so are marginal. I live in a US metro area with lots of trees and tall buildings, and it’s not practical to locate an indoor antenna near a window here. So I get a few networks, but not all. I can get ABC and the CW without issues. Sometimes more, but it’s a delicate process to adjust the antenna for the finicky ones… and I have been doing this for over 10 years! Good thing that streaming has improved! 🙂

Good luck!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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JohnW wrote:

The modern flat style antennas are typically UHF only, so if any of your local stations are broadcasting in VHF, those will be a no go.

Not true.

Flat style antennas are multi-directional (i.e. them pick up signals from both the front and back sides unlike “long” outdoor antennas which only receive in one direction) and they can pick up both VHF (channels 7-13 in the frequency range 174-216 MHz) and UHF (14-36 in the frequency range 470-608 MHz.)

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Not true that all flat style indoor antennas are VHF compatible. Yes, they are multi-directional.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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JohnW wrote:

Not true that all flat style indoor antennas are VHF compatible.

Just FYI…

Tired to verify your claim by googling flat style indoor antennas and couldn’t find even a single one that indicated it only received UHF.

I did find flat style indoor antennas reviewed on various sites, from following 20 manufacturers, that all receive both VHF & UHF.

1byOne (highly rated)
Antennas Direct (highly rated)
Antop (highly rated)
Channel Master (highly rated)
Mohu (highly rated)
U Must Have (highly rated)
Winegard (highly rated)
Auchen
GE
GPED
Lorddream
Luxtronic
Newway
One For All
Phillips
RCA
SatMaximum
SiliconDust
Solid Signal
Vansky

Note: I can’t provide direct links to those because the forum S/W has a limit of no more than 3 links/post.

 

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Just one link to a user that has been able to receive VHF with an indoor flat antenna would be fine. I have seen nothing but complaints from users of these style antennas for such purposes.

Sure, the manufacturers can say anything they want to, including claims for ridiculous reception distances. Fortunately for them, most stations broadcast over the UHF band.

Only one station in my area uses VHF, and the tower is only 9 miles away. Never had any luck picking this one up with a modern indoor antenna. Since it is PBS I can stream it live for free, so haven’t been bothered to remedy the OTA situation.

But in the end it’s all about the physics of the different wavelengths involved. The two bands VHF & UHF have not changed since broadcasters used analog signals. Why do you think TV users relied on rabbit ears for decades when most network programming was broadcast over VHF? The requirements for the antennas have not changed. If anything, you probably need a better antenna now for DTV, because there is no tolerance of dropouts or low signal quality (old school “snow”). It either on or off.

So yes, please bring some actual proof that flat indoor antennas work well with VHF. Somebody clever might have invented one by now, but I have not seen actual evidence of one that works better than rabbit ears.

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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JohnW wrote:

Just one link to a user that has been able to receive VHF with an indoor flat antenna would be fine.

You got it!

My Winegard Flatwave FL5500A amplified indoor antenna (purchased back in April 2015 from my local Walmart) picks up these 51 channels.

VHF

2.1, 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, 2.5 (53 miles)
4.1, 4.2, 4.3, 4.4 (14 miles – local PBS station)
5.1, 5.2, 5.3 (28 miles)
8.1, 8.2, 8.3, 8.4 (52 miles)
11.1, 11.2, 11.3 (28 miles)

UHF

16.1, 16.2, 16.3 (13 miles)
17.1, 17.2, 17.3, 17.4 (28 miles)
22.1, 22.2, 22.3, 22.4 (28 miles)
26.3, 26.4, 26.5, 26.6 (10 miles)
28.1, 28.2, 28.3 (28 miles)
40.3, 40.4, 40.5, 40.6 (28 miles)
45.1, 45.2, 45.3, 45.4 (51 miles)
48.1, 48.2, 48.3 (51 miles)
50.1, 50.2, 50.3 (28 miles)

The only time I experience any reception issues is when there are local thunderstorms.

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OscarCP

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OscarCP wrote:

It also has an “analogue pass-through” feature, where if one turns off the box, it will let through to the TV set stations that are still transmitting in analogue mode: some low power stations may be like that, I understand. Probably no around here, but one never knows.

A quick google search shows there are quite a few low power TV stations still operating in the US, but almost all of them have converted to digital.

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OscarCP

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OK, I had to edit this post because while I was typing it, alejr ( @bigal67 ) was editing the one above it to be indicative of what the search result actually found!  👍👍

The link still shows exactly what it used to, though…a rather lengthy list of those low power stations still operating on channel 30.  😉

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Commercial low power stations are very unlikely in an urban environment. The Analog Pass Thru function really just turns off the Digital-to-Analog translation, effectively making the Converter just a direct In-to-Out wire. One then does channel tuning back on the TV tuner itself. Pass-thru was necessary back during the transition period when stations were converting from analog to digital, and a viewer needed to be able to switch around the various stations.

” … (3) can watch snow. ”
Only if you look out the window, and the weather supplies it.
With Digital TV the only on-screen snow is if it is actually part of the picture.
A pixel (picture element) is either On or Off, no Mr. Inbetween. Hence, as someone previously mentioned, what you’ll see when the signal is absent or too weak to be usable, is black screen, or pixellated (you’ll know it when you see it) picture, or blocking (when pieces of the picture are flitting about). Audio also will blat in and out, no hiss.

How many TV channels were available when you had cable?

Here are links that you will find helpful. Click in each for details at your location.
https://www.channelmaster.com/pages/tv-antenna-map-by-state
https://www.channelmaster.com/pages/free-tv-channels-by-state
https://www.channelmaster.com/pages/free-tv-guide-listings-by-state
– above links from near bottom of https://www.channelmaster.com/

Also, these 3 are cross-linked on ‘tabs’ within each page.

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OscarCP

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Oh, Geez! Even I know that I won’t see snow with digital TV signals and see instead pixelated pictures and black screens in poor reception conditions. That was a metaphorical joke, to coin a figure of speech. I used to see black screens and pixelated images when my TV was still connected to coaxial cable with Comcast, years ago. I imagine they were taking those signals from some analogue transmissions from stations and digitizing them for retransmission over cable (even then I already had to use a set-top converter box), as that was in the early days of the government-mandated  conversion to digital TV and the change from analogue at the stations was just beginning.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Without smart TV and cord cutting how do you stream Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV+.. movies and TV shows’ ?
You stream to your MacBook Pro ?

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Alex: “Without smart TV and cord cutting how do you stream Netflix, Amazon Prime, Apple TV+.. movies and TV shows? You stream to your MacBook Pro ?”

Yes, I do everything that has to do with the Internet with my MacBook Pro. With an external DVD player for the movies and shows in my collection. I have also an external 17″ monitor for better viewing. And a printer. That is quite enough for me. I’ve been always one for having and using a little as possible, only just enough, of anything. Makes my life simpler.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Alex5723

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So you miss all the glory of movies on big screen, multi-loudspeakers Dolby Digital, Atoms.sound..movies that studios invested 200-400 millions into making..

Why settle for poor experience ?

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Alex: I don’t settle for a poor experience. I am mostly indifferent to looks and only care about what is coming with and underneath the picture: humor, meaningful drama; the quality of the story, the acting or animation, depending on type of show. A so-so picture on a modest-size screen plus the accompanying sound with enough quality to understand what is being said and enjoy the music, if there is any, is enough for me to get all that’s there that I may care about. And the pictures I see are actually considerably better than so-so, as is the sound.

Could it also be that my age is a reason for my attitude to spectacle? That I have seen during its course plenty enough and learned to value substance over appearance? Maybe, maybe not. Because I’ve been this way for more decades than people take to go from puberty to retirement. So I would guess that it’s just part of being who I am. Or, more precisely, who I became while growing up. Because life is process, like the flame in the Buddhist metaphor.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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JohnW

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Actually my external monitor is 27″. For some reason I keep writing 17″ …

But still modest, compared with three- and six -feet flat screens …

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Oscar also note that many local networks allow internet streaming for gratis.

Oh yeah just get a nice led flat screen, they are cheap now and cheaper to run than CTRs.

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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OscarCP

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wavy: “Oscar also note that many local networks allow internet streaming for gratis.”

I recall seeing that, now and then, but had paid not much attention to it, having for nearly a quarter century a functioning TV to watch local stations over cable: first Comcast’s coaxial, then Verizon’s FIOS, until last Thursday.

I’ll certainly look into it, now that you have reminded me of this useful fact.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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Yep, especially PBS. They have a ton of quality content available on demand! Installed the PBS app on my streaming device and just let them know who my local PBS affiliate station is. Good to go!

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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Charlie, OscarCP

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Just another Forum Poster wrote:

JohnW wrote: Just one link to a user that has been able to receive VHF with an indoor flat antenna would be fine. You got it! My Winegard Flatwave FL5500A amplified indoor antenna (purchased back in April 2015 from my local Walmart) picks up these 51 channels.

Just a follow-up here. I ordered one of those Winegard Flatwave amplified antennas just to give it a try. I like Winegard and already a customer!

I have been using a Winegard SS3000 amplified indoor directional antenna (out of production now) with generally great results for about 10 years.

In my area, the local networks have two groups of transmitters located in slightly different directions on the outskirts of the metro area. One group is about 9-10 miles away, the other is 22-24 miles away. All stations but one are UHF. I have never been able to pick up the one station that broadcasts on VHF high band, even though it’s about 9 miles away. The UHF transmitters in that group come in with very high signal quality.

Anyway, the Flatwave did no better for me. Returned it, and went back to my original Winegard. The good news is that I have found a better location for it as I tried all possible locations that the included Flatwave cable would reach.

Still no VHF here, but that PBS network has another affiliate station here that comes in strong. It also streams on my Roku. So no loss, just took it as a challenge!

Winegard SS3000 image

 

 

Windows 10 Pro 22H2

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OscarCP

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