How to speed up Windows 7 Update scans – permanently

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Those of you with lots of experience, please take a hard look at this article and tell me what I missed! InfoWorld
[See the full post at: How to speed up Windows 7 Update scans – permanently]

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@Woody,

Yup…read the Intel references from your article and my Intel adapter is the n1030. No updated drivers for that family. Surprised at how callous Intel is about this issue.

And MS wonders why some/many people are going to move to group W?

And then aboddi’s answer in the MyDigital Life forum requires a login?? Suppose I don’t want to ‘register” over there? His answer/solution can’t be posted here??

geeez….

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I recently did some maintenance on a laptop with the KB3172605 non-compatible intel bluetooth chip mentioned. The thing is, using the microsoft bluetooth drivers is no problem at all. Everything worked, bluetooth file transfer and bluetooth speakers. Not sure what extra features the Intel driver brings that one can’t live without?

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The article says –
“Note that, in the new patching paradigm, even those who manually download monthly security patches (“Group B”) still need to use Windows Update, if only for .Net patches, Office patches (for those who don’t have Office Click-to-Run), and other patches that don’t arrive as part of the Security-only Update. See, for example, this month’s KB 3200006 and KB 3199375, for Internet Explorer.”

According to their respective articles KB 3200006 and KB 3199375 fixes are offered through the catalog, not windows update.

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“No matter how you expect to handle Windows 7 patches in the future (see my discussion of “Group A” and “Group B”), I think it’s wise to turn off Windows Update.” — Woody

Wow ! This is a revolution ! Why is it better than “Always ask” ?

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Setting Automatic Update to “Always ask” and “Never update” is functionally the same thing.

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Woody,

Win7x64 Home Premium PC user.

I’m going to install KB3172605 & use your speedup guide but I have a question about disconnecting the ‘net before installing the KB.

Regarding disconnecting from the ‘net before installing; would disabling the Net Adapter suffice vs disconnecting my Ethernet cable?

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Thanks for checking!

It looks like both of those are available from both Windows Update and from the Catalog. Or am I misreading https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/894199 ?

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So the MS bluetooth driver works?

Wow. I had no idea. How did you install it?

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Good point. Abbodi, what do you think? I’m fine with it either way…. (I subscribed to MDL in 2013, back when the world was kinder and gentler.)

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Both should work. But isn’t it easier to just pull the cable? Just a KISS maneuver.

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My cabling is a little more difficult to access but thanks for the info. Will give this a go soon.

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Woody… shouldn’t there be a restart between steps 2b and 2c? Simply clicking the X on an update already in progress doesn’t actually stop the process.

Also, doesn’t the WU service itself need to be stopped BEFORE running the installer for 3172605? I’m not sure on this one as I’ve always stopped that service for every manually installed patch I’ve downloaded, including this one.

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I think you are misreading the guidance. KB 894199 indicates that the method of deployment for both of those are through the catalog —

Update for Internet Explorer (KB3200006)

Locale: All
Deployment: Catalog
Classification: Updates, Non-Security
Target platforms: Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows Server 2012, Windows 7, Windows Server 2008 R2, Windows Server 2008, and Windows Vista

and

Update for Internet Explorer (KB3199375)

Locale: All
Deployment: Catalog
Classification: Updates, Non-Security
Target platforms: Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2012 R2, Windows Embedded Standard 7, Windows 7, and Windows Server 2008 R2

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This was Windows 7 and the bluetooth chip was recognized by the OS and the MS drivers installed automagically. I recall owning a laptop with Intel bluetooth before and their drivers were a hassle, bloated with “features” and a million services etc etc, completely useless imho. I got rid of those and just used the MS driver and things were peachy. same thing with this one I encountered, so yeah dunno what the Intel drivers are supposed to do better..?

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I still want to know why Microsoft no longer makes a stand-alone package for current the WUA bits. If there was one single component that should be packaged separately from everything else (even if it did have prerequisites it checked against before installing), it would would be the code that is used to detect what all other updates are applicable for a given system. Having been doing IT work now for over 20 years, I honestly can’t think of a dumber design decision than this. It is so beyond bizarre I can only come to the conclusion that they just honestly don’t care if Windows 7/8.1 even work properly, despite the fact they are obligated to support these systems out to 2020/2023.

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Woody,

Thanks for the instructions to speed up WU scan. It worked for me, but I then found myself facing 20+ important and 80+ optional updates. Whew!. I thought I was caught up as of September, but I guess not.

Just FYI, I do see the October Security Monthly Quality Rollup (KB3185330) listed and checked in my important updates after previously installing the Security Only Quality Update from MS Update Catalog, which I believe you didn’t think would happen per your InfoWorld article describing the Group B Update Catalog process. I suspect that will trip up a lot of folks.

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I already pastebined it for non-MDL users
http://pastebin.com/raw/UHXiAf4M

zip file contains ReadMe.txt

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@Woody, could you replace that MDL link in you article with pastebin link?

also, it’s better to link to the revised 3172605 version that’s available from catalog, instead having the users to install it twice:

32-bit
http://download.windowsupdate.com/d/msdownload/update/software/updt/2016/09/windows6.1-kb3172605-x86_ae03ccbd299e434ea2239f1ad86f164e5f4deeda.msu

64-bit
http://download.windowsupdate.com/d/msdownload/update/software/updt/2016/09/windows6.1-kb3172605-x64_2bb9bc55f347eee34b1454b50c436eb6fd9301fc.msu

great article, thanks.

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Thank you, thank you!

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There’s something weird going on with the Monthly Rollup. I’ve seen admins complain about it, too. Not sure why it’s showing up, but fortunately the instructions are accurate – you need to uncheck it.

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The changes have been made. Appreciate it!

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Fascinating! And reassuring.

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YIKES! You’re right. I stand corrected.

I’ll get the article updated immediately.

Thank you!

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I read the InfoWorld article at http://www.infoworld.com/article/3136677/microsoft-windows/how-to-speed-up-windows-7-update-scans-forever.html and noticed that among the Wireless/Bluetooth adapters mentioned as broken by KB3172605 are Centrino Advanced-N 6230/6235/2230.
I had one of those, I think it was 6230 if not 6235 in my Dell XPS L502x and I had only problems with Wi-Fi. This was due to the dual functionality Wi-Fi/Bluetooth which apparently didn’t work well due to physical limitations of the design. One of the known improvements, as it was not a fix, was to turn off Bluetooth.
After few years of frustration, I bought a direct replacement which is essentially the same Wi-Fi less Bluetooth and could not be happier with the Wi-Fi. The replacement card is Intel Centrino Ultimate-N 6300 AGN.

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I’m not sure about stopping the WU service, but I’m having the post changed to add “reboot” after clicking the X.

Thanks!

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Confirm what Eric posted, I noticed the same thing while reading the article.

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“windows phone does not support this type of file”

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KB3020369 is not needed anymore woody.

KB3177467 supersedes/replaces KB3020369. Install the newer KB3177467 servicing stack update instead of the older KB3020369 update.

Also note that KB3172605 was re-released in September 2016, so if the original KB3172605 was already installed, download & install the re-released one.

So install the KB3177467 update before installing the “revised” KB3172605 update.

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But what about this?

https://www.askwoody.com/2016/ms-defcon-3-time-to-get-the-first-post-patchocalypse-patches-patched/comment-page-4/#comment-105082

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Thanks for the recommendation!

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@EP
The Servicing Stack updates have been discussed before and multiple times in different contexts. I actually proposed installing all 3 Servicing Stack updates in their order of release and allow CBS/TrustedInstaller.exe to sort out between them, in order to avoid cosmetic issues with Windows Update detection.
As there are few reports about KB3177467 not behaving well and the patch is new and not yet required, Woody decided for the safer solution, which is the installation of KB3020369 for now.

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The instructions in your InfoWorld article worked well for me. Seems I already had the KB3020369, but the offline install of KB3172605 made a major difference when I installed one of the IE updates mentioned–only took a few seconds to check installed updates instead of forever. I have a Windows 7 Pro, SP1 laptop with no separate MS programs such as Office.
Just one question (as a Group B follower): How are we supposed to know about IE updates in future? I do receive notification in Windows Update of separate .NET framework updates, but I don’t recall seeing any separate IE updates this month. Admittedly, I only maintain IE as an emergency back-up browser, and I honestly don’t care about correct time zones in Bulgaria, but I do like to keep the browser updated for critical patches

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Since MSFT itself propose KB3020369, annd the combination solution KB3020369/KB3172605 has been floating the web for couple of months now, changing it might cause unnecessary confusion

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@Woody,

Your InfoWorld article has some
IMPORTANT
information backwards!

Your article says:
“Intel continues to not fix its Bluetooth drivers for the Intel Centrino Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160/1030 and Centrino Advanced-N 6230/6235/2230 Bluetooth devices—a big swath of Intel Bluetooth systems (see poohsticks’ firsthand report on AskWoody).”

However, you can see in my report that you linked to in your InfoWorld article that those two families are the ones that Intel HAS FIXED —
note the word “isn’t” in what I wrote:

“If one’s Intel thingie _isn’t_ in either of the following groups
1. Intel® Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160 family
2. Intel® Centrino® 6235/2230 family,
then Intel says that it’s too old and there will be no official fix for it”

from: https://www.askwoody.com/2016/does-the-new-intel-bluetooth-driver-fix-the-problem-created-by-kb3172605/#comment-104377

——————————–
From some of my other comments in that prior thread, here are further instructions for fixing the Intel Bluetooth drivers from those 2 families of adapters:

—
Intel’s instructions for applying the “fix” for KB3172605:

“How can I resolve the issue?

How to install this version:

1.Uninstall all Microsoft KB mentioned above. Skip this step if the KB is not installed.

2.Uninstall any version of Intel® Bluetooth software.

3.Download the new Intel® Bluetooth software.

4.Install the new Intel® Bluetooth software.

5.Re-install the Microsoft KB as needed.”

from the fix instructions at: http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/network-and-i-o/wireless-networking/000022410.html

—
As of last week, here is where to get the latest software for those 2 Intel Bluetooth adapter families:

The latest software for the Intel® Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160 family was published on Sept. 28th:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26311/Intel-Wireless-Bluetooth-Software-for-Windows-7-?v=t

The latest software for the Intel® Centrino® 6235/2230 family is apparently from July 26th:
https://downloadcenter.intel.com/download/26208

———————————-
NOW, unfortunately some people have reported that those Intel-supplied “fixes” for those 2 adapter families are not actually fixing the problem entirely.

See, for example, the following excerpt from one of my comments in that earlier thread:

“The following guy has a 6235 thingie and he followed the advice for Group 2 but it has messed up his Bluetooth:
from Sept 28:
https://communities.intel.com/thread/106878

The advice to him from Intel was to check with his bluetooth headphones’ manufacturer to see if they had any ideas, and otherwise to consider an OS reinstall.

(There’s no way I would want to do an OS reinstall.)

—
The following guy has a 7265 thingie and he followed the advice for Group 1 but it messed up his Bluetooth:
from August 31:
https://communities.intel.com/message/418211

Intel’s advice was: “In situations like this, Intel suggests to use the drivers provided by the computer manufacturer first”

…which is different than their generic uninstall/install instructions.

I am pretty sure that my “business” Lenovo laptop has its own weird drivers for most things, given my past experiences with trying to update its drivers in any way (even from the driver maker’s own site) other than through Lenovo’s in-built “ThinkVantage System Update” program that gets everything from Lenovo.

Anyway, that guy finally found his own fix for it (described in the last comment), and it wasn’t by following Intel’s advice.”

the above excerpt was from my comment here: https://www.askwoody.com/2016/does-the-new-intel-bluetooth-driver-fix-the-problem-created-by-kb3172605/#comment-104374

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I recently installed KB3172605 and WU is now running properly. However, when I tried installing it with the WU service running, I got a “checking for updates” window which never completed (left it running for 36 hours) after clicking the file icon. I turned off the WU service and the installation of KB3172605 proceeded normally.

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@Woody,

A comment on the following statement in your InfoWorld article:

“If your wireless adapter came from Intel, run the official Intel Driver Update Utility.”

That has not worked for me in the past with my current Lenovo computer. When I run the Intel Driver Update Utility, it gives me the message that my computer has special drivers that were installed by the manufacturer (Lenovo), and that I must get them from Lenovo and not from Intel.

Then, when I check with Lenovo and I run Lenovo’s own update utility, it tells me that I already have the latest Intel drivers for my computer.

I’m sure that most people CAN use Intel’s driver update utility, but not everyone can.

(Particularly if people own a Lenovo computer, they might watch out for this roadblock by Intel.)

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Hi Woody,

I’d like to ask a new question, but can’t find a link on your page! So I’m posting my question here. This is regarding Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE).
———-

My Win 7 updates is set to never check for updates, yet MSE is getting multiple definitions updates daily instead of once a day as it used to be. (MSE definitions updates are part of Windows updates and appear in the update history)

Does this mean that MSE has a built-in function which allows Microsoft to control the frequency of definitions updates without the user’s intervention?

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Woody,

The manual install of KB3172605 resulted in dramatically improved times on all three x64 machines (roughly 15 minutes from checking to finished install for the 42Mb today).

However, on all three, the Windows Update settings had been changed under “Important updates” from “Check for updates but let me choose …” to “Install updates automatically”. Obviously not what I wanted.

Also, I find that stopping the WU service is imperative (for me at least) prior to running the standalone installer. Else I get an interminable “Searching for updates on this computer” window.

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I’m just wondering why disconnect from the internet for the installation of KB 3172695?

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By the way, only just 3 days ago, when I was running my computer’s in-built Lenovo software updating utility (which I do about once a month),
it ACTUALLY said that they had a new update for my Intel Bluetooth adapter!

I gave the utility permission to install it, and after it beavered away for about 2 minutes, I got an error message within the Lenovo software updating utility (which is called ThinkVantage System Update) saying that the installation was NOT successful.

However, the utility had taken the update off of my “available updates” list, and it gave me no way to re-try the update from within the ThinkVantage utility.

So, I went to my Windows 7 computer’s “Programs and Features” in the Control Panel and I did a “repair” of the Intel adapter which Lenovo had just attempted to install.

The repair in Programs and Features did some things, removed some files, etc. — so it did seem to be changing something around. It finished, without throwing up any warning notices.

I went back to the Lenovo ThinkVantage System Update utility to see how they characterized the “repaired” Intel adapter installation, and it STILL said that installation was unsuccessful;
however, I think that the ThinkVantage System Update utility probably does not re-examine the program after it’s been installed the first time, so ThinkVantage System Update will probably always say that that particular Intel adapter installation was “unsuccessful”.

[It’s really shoddy that the ThinkVantage System doesn’t give the computer owner a way to re-run an “unsuccessful” installation.]

Then, it occurred to me that I could probably get the .exe file from the Lenovo website, and after doing significant contortions on their site in order to find the correct file for my particular model of Lenovo, I downloaded it from there and ran the file as an in-place upgrade (a la the AskWoody.com contributor “Bill C.” recommended method for updating Lenovo’s Intel Bluetooth adapters).

The ThinkVantage System Update utility still says that the Intel adapter installation was unsuccessful, but that is probably the same error message from the initial problematic installation, so I am disregarding it now.

(Unfortunately, I don’t know enough about Bluetooth adapters to be able to probe my adapter and see if it is working *entirely* properly now, or not. But I have done the best I could to get it installed correctly.)

Anyway: if people have a Lenovo, and, like me, are told by Intel that they can’t use the Intel Driver Update Utility for their Lenovo machine, it may well be that Lenovo has recently released a new Intel adapter for their computer, and they should check their computer’s in-built Lenovo system update utility and see if there is a new Intel adapter update ready to be installed.

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Note that with “Always ask” the updates found in a check stay in the list, but if “Never”, the list is cleared as soon as you exit WU. (True for Win 7 Home Premium.)

Not a problem if your scans are fast. Also, not a great idea to use an old list, but if you have do do one of those update-reboot-update cycles, you’ll save some time with “Always ask”…

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Note: This next post is about your blog comment system, not about the main topic of this thread.

—-
Oh dear, I see that I’ve been automatically subscribed to get updates to the thread.

I did not click on any boxes today, so maybe you have recently set this up to automatically subscribe people unless they opt out.

Below my comment, it says:
“You are subscribed to this post. Manage your subscriptions.”

When I go to the link for “manage your subscriptions”, it says something about getting sent an email at one’s email address which will contain information about managing subscriptions.

I can’t do that though, because the email address I entered was a made-up one.

I always put in a different, pretend email address every time I’m on AskWoody.com (to protect my privacy), but if it’s now an automatic opt-in system to get updates on thread contributions, I’ll have to be careful to not put in an email address that possibly could be a real one, out in the world!

[otherwise, number 10 downing street “… .gov.uk” is gonna be like, ‘what is this about a change in the Def Con status’? ha ha]

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If WU service is indeed running, you need to stop it. Easy way to tell is to bring up task manager (right click on task bar). If you see a percentage CPU usage above 10% consistently, WU is running and it needs to be stopped. There could be other things that cause this, but WU is almost always the culprit. Stopping it will do no damage.

I have just this morning started doing windows updates for my clients. The vast majority of selected B. One has selected C which is right for him because he is transitioning to Apple.

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I found that by turning off Windows Updates (Never Check for Updates) completely, my Win 7 laptop no longer has the fan running on medium speed most of the time, because svchost.exe is no longer running at 25% for hours.

And when I want to update, I select Check for Updates, and it just takes minutes, thanks to the advice from Canadian Tech.

Best advice ever, thanks!

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I found the same on a client computer. The problem was that the Bluetooth and wireless drivers are packaged as one and the Bluetooth gets installed first. Consequently, no wireless.

I solved this by finding an alternative wireless driver without the bluetooth driver. Client was not interested in Bluetooth anyway.

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Nope, I haven’t set anything up to automatically subscribe people.

And you’ve hit an important shortcoming of the subscription service. There’s no confirmation of email address. I don’t have any way to fix it with the current setup, but I’m looking at changing some things shortly.

Fortunately, I now have a little bit of money, so that’s not out of the question…

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Great news!

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That may be a side-effect of installing 3172605…

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Short answer: Yes.

Longer answer: I’m looking at grafting a forum onto the side of this site. We’ve become so busy that I can’t keep up – and there are lots of great one-off questions that don’t match up with my InfoWorld posts. Stay tuned.

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I have the same question. I’ve done literally hundreds of systems Windows Updates and have never done a disconnect from the web. I could not have anyway because I do this remotely using remote control software.

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Got it. Looks like I need to change the article – but it was based on Intel’s official announcements… ????

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It looks like MS has changed its mind and now will include IE patches in the monthly Security-only patch.

So far, anyway.

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… then you probably don’t need it…

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I certainly am happy about this and hope it continues that way. If they do not, we will need to stop the use of IE.

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I should add an important point. Windows Update continues to work long after a restart. On some systems, depending on the updates, as long as 10 or 15 minutes.

I always start Task manager after a restart and watch the % at the bottom. You can even look at the processes and see ones like Trusted installer working.

In the case of installing KB3172605 and then a restart, I always wait until the % drops below 10% for a time before I start WU.

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+1

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My Wi-Fi was working but dropping off the network intermittently or just having slow performance at random times. While disabling Bluetooth was improving the behaviour, it was not fixing it completely. This is why I replaced the card with the equivalent without Bluetooth. The two cards are also identical in size, so no mechanical modification is required in the laptop.
Some people use Bluetooth to connect their phone to the laptop for transferring data, but there are better and more reliable ways to do it.
Like you, I couldn’t find good use for Bluetooth for a PC, laptop or desktop.

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Good point, it is the same solution in the KB and not everyone is familiar with supersedence issues.

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I think it is because with certain updates, there are dependency checks which may invoke exactly the broken mechanism which we want to bypass by installing KB3172605. Think IE11 installed manually. If not told by a switch to install with locally available resources, it will go on the internet to look for the latest available updates.
I don’t think disconnecting is necessary for most updates installed manually, but Woody or other posters here seem to have a different experience.

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I encountered the same problem mentioned in two of the other comments. When I ran KB 3172605, I got a box from Windows Update Standalone Installer with a continuously running progress bar that said “Searching for Updates on this Computer.” After an hour I clicked the “Cancel” button, but it had no effect. I had to shut down and reboot to stop it.

The explanation from the other commenters is that Windows update is still running. I did cancel two previous update attempts that ran forever, but when I open Windows Update it shows a button that says “Try Again” instead of “Install Updates,” so maybe it is still running in the background (although it doesn’t show on the task bar).

However, I don’t know how to shut it down — do I have to use the Task Manager? If so, what is the name of the process I need to kill? I’m not all that savvy about such things, and I don’t want to screw anything up.

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This solution has always worked for me. Please try it:

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-doesnt-work-even-with-the-solution/1e7c6642-fd2b-4122-a62d-b5dff90b777d?tm=1477181520617

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Just to provide an answer to Eric P (A Different One), I think setting Windows Update to Never check while installing manually has the same effect for most patches like disconnecting from the Internet. Do not disable the service for this purpose.
There are special updates like the IE11 installation mentioned, but those are only a few and even they can be controlled with built-in switches in most situations.

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@Canadian Tech “Start Windows Update and change the Setting to Never check for updates. Restart.”

I posted the same above before reading to your article and I know that this is essential. Restart is probably optional, but it cannot harm.

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@Bill See reply below from Canadian Tech and from me. Set WU to Never check and you should be OK.
Or take the hammer approach and pull the cable as Woody says, both will work.

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@Bill,

Try this way before CTs excellent instructions, it’s easy.

I just downloaded and manually installed KB3192391. This is what I did and it should work for any KB you want to manually install. Go to “Services”, find “Windows Update” (near the end) from the list. Highlight it by clicking on it (do not change anything under “Startup Type”) and select “Stop the service” (top left). Exit from “Services”.

D/C on the standalone package (2605) you downloaded and it should take no time at all to install. Reboot. Windows Update for some restarts itself automatically but it doesn’t for me so I go back into “Services” highlight it and click on “Restart the Service”. You are done.

Hope this helps.

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In the following discussion thread
(https://communities.intel.com/thread/104414?start=15&tstart=0 ),

Intel claims that:

a) They have a FIX for Intel® Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160 family
(see Comment 18)

b) They have a FIX for Intel® Centrino® 6235/2230 family
(see Comment 27)

c) They _never_ will have a fix for older, legacy, discontinued adapters such as 1030 and 6230.
(see Comments 31, 34, and 38)

—-
Comment number 18, posted by “Intel Corporation”, talks about how they have a fix for the Intel® Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160 family:

“We are glad to inform that the new version of Intel® PROSet/Wireless Software for Bluetooth® technology for Windows 7*, that fixes the compatibility issue with the Microsoft KB 3161608/3172605 is already available and can be downloaded”

—
Comment number 27, posted by “Intel Corporation”, talks about how they have a fix for the Intel® Centrino® 6235/2230 family:

“We would like to inform that the new release of Intel® PROSet/Wireless Software for Bluetooth® technology for Windows 7* is already available for legacy adapters, this prevents the issue with the Windows* updates mentioned in this thread.”

——
In comments 31, 34, and 38,

they say that they will _never_ have a fix for some adapters
(they are talking about adapters that are _older_ than the 2 adapter families that they mentioned earlier in that thread in comments 18 and 27 which they claim that they _do_ have a fix for):

for example, from comment 34:
“As mentioned previously, it is not possible to provide a fix for Legacy (Discontinued) Adapters,
such as the Intel® Centrino® Wireless-N 1030 and Intel® Centrino® Advanced-N 6230”

======================
They have made this much more confusing than it should have been.

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The particular comment, comment 30,
in that (same) Intel discussion thread
which you provided a hyperlink to in the InfoWorld article

(https://communities.intel.com/thread/104414?start=30&tstart=0 )

as supporting the article’s claim that Intel has not fixed
“Intel Centrino Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160/1030 and Centrino Advanced-N 6230/6235/2230 Bluetooth devices”

actually talks about a _different_ adapter, 6230, which they say is an older/legacy/discontinued adapter.

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That had never happened to me before,
but since you say that you haven’t changed the settings for the site as a whole,
it must be that my mouse strayed while I was toggling back and forth between AskWoody.com and InfoWorld.com and the box ended up getting checked without my noticing.

Before I assumed the policy had changed at a site level and commented on it, I should have tested it on second day – sorry about that!

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Are standalone IE updates available to Group B through the Update Catalog, without having to run Windows Update to get them?
I know that Woody wants Group B to run Windows Update for certain patches, but if they are obtainable from the Catalog, and if they aren’t tricky for the user to know which patch applies to her/his computer (like I guess the .Net patches are?), I’d rather get all the patches I can from the Catalog, and avoid Windows Update and KB3172605.

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I’m right there with you Canadian Tech, and I’ve posted comments including instructions about this in numerous threads here in the past! I also maintain a large group of computers remotely and as you stated it’s obviously not possible to disconnect from the internet during a remote session. I will repeat this process once again as it has been 100% successful through at LEAST a hundred remote installations!

Set WU to never check for updates first, then RESTART THE COMPUTER! After the computer has been restarted you must stop the WU service before launching the downloaded installer. That’s it… plain & simple… this has worked successfully for me EVERY single time!

Also keep in mind that manual installations do NOT create a restore point so you should create one manually before launching the installer. I normally create one between stopping the WU service and launching the installer myself, but it doesn’t matter when you do it. It’s just a routine I’ve gotten into after installing “magic patches” on numerous computers every month for quite some time now.

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At this point the IE updates are rolled into the monthly Security-only patch.

Originally Microsoft said they’d be released independently. But they’re rolled in now.

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No problem. I always want to hear about site oddities!

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I tried to unravel things a bit in a comment on the InfoWorld site.

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I too have spotted that MSE has recently gone from once-a-day updates (and mostly I had done a manual update anyway at breakfast time), to several updates in each 24 hours. I can’t find any settings which I have mis-set accidentally, so I conclude the change has occurred by MS’s choice. This is Win7 Pro SPI, the MSE client version is still 4.9.218.0 (I worried about that).

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@Woody:

I have the “updates option” set to “NEVER”. Is it necessary to also set it in the “Services” to “stop” too?

I didn’t think it was necessary unless a user was downloading a “stand-alone” update.

Correct?.

Just need verification, please. Everything is working fine as it is now set at “NEVER’.

Thank you for your help, and guidance, always.

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CORRECTION: Statement above should read:

“unless a user was INSTALLING a “stand-alone” update. Apology for the error.

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I had the same problem. To make a really long story short, I made sure my router was turned off, and I rebooted the system. Immediately tried to install again, and was successful. It does take a few minutes to find the update, but it was successful and it’s definitely worth the install. Updates were found and now working again.

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@Woody,

I can’t view the comments on InfoWorld (I never could see them, even when I temporarily unlocked my blocking defenses), but your statement in the main article, claiming that

“Intel continues to not fix its Bluetooth drivers for the Intel Centrino Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160/1030 and Centrino Advanced-N 6230/6235/2230 Bluetooth devices”

seems to be incorrect.

As it stands, the article gives thousands of readers who have those particular adapters the false idea that they now must choose either to keep their computer’s Bluetooth working, or being able to have Windows Updates in the future.

But that is not their true position: Intel actually has released fixes for the Intel Centrino Wireless 8260/7265/3165/7260/3160/1030 and Centrino Advanced-N 6230/6235/2230 Bluetooth devices
(which they stated in comments 18 and 27 of https://communities.intel.com/thread/104414?start=15&tstart=0),
so those people should enact the available fixes for their Intel Bluetooth adapters and continue on with their Windows Updating.

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@poohsticks, et al

Re:”I’ll have to be careful to not put in an email address that possibly could be a real one, out in the world!”

No need. Try Blur. Works great.

http://uk.pcmag.com/abine-blur/38259/review/abine-blur

Don’t worry, be happy

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@CH100…

Your comment stating “Restart is probably optional, but it cannot harm.” is incorrect.

It is NOT “probably optional”, after altering your Windows Update setting restarting the computer is REQUIRED. I’ve done hundreds of remote installations and when the “magic patches” first came out I experimented both ways.

The ONLY way I’ve found to be 100% successful is to restart the computer after changing the WU setting!

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Bill, follow the procedure here precisely. It works for me.

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-doesnt-work-even-with-the-solution/1e7c6642-fd2b-4122-a62d-b5dff90b777d?tm=1477181520617

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Canadian Tech…Following your advice, I was able to solve my Win 7 scan forever issue. (Many thanks!) But, am now addressing similar issue with Win 8.1.

How do I stop WU services in Win 8.1?

When I follow Woody’s Win 7 procedures on my 8.1 box, I get to a point where the only option offered is to START services. This suggests that it is already off (I’m set to “never check”), but still can’t install from catalog.

I follow your posts here and elsewhere because your instructions are clear, concise, and understandable by home users such as myself. Keep up the good work!

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To fix the WindowsUpdate issue of it hanging around for hours or more before it giving results, instead of installing the suggested:
windows6.1-KB3172605-x86.msu

Instead I installed the KB3185330 which as I understand it is cumulative of what KB3172605 had within – but anyway I installed KB3185330 and it too fixed my WindowsUpdate problems

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Thank you. I am very pleased you got Win7 WU working for you.

I disliked Win8 from the beginning. Out of 150 client computers, 2 upgraded to 8. They did not keep those computers very long. I don’t know anything about Win8, so sorry, I can not help you with Win8, but I am sure others will be able to point the way.

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No
KB3185330 contain win32k.sys patch which fix the issue temporary until Update Tuesday
whereas KB3172605 contain latest Windows Update Client which solve the issue permanently

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I am a Plan B person running Win7 Pro on two Bootcamped Macs – one with 64 bit, the other x86. I have been following Plan B for updating.

I do Audio Engineering with my Windows boxes, using an external Audio interface from RME. RME have released a new series of drivers for their products, all of which require “Digital Signing”, and they are recommending that their users install KB3172605 to enable this.

I was all set to follow Abbodi’s instructions to just install the Update fixer he’s provided, but now it looks like I’ll have to swallow the whole KB3172605 install, as I suspect more and more hard and software vendors will be incorporating Digital Signing to remain compliant with their agreements with Microsoft.

A word to the wise, as they say, is a penny earned…

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@Woody & abbodi86:

Please interpret:

I have no knowledge of what MDL is, nor what “pastebined” means. I do not have problems with anything that is Blue Tooth, so is it even necessary that I understand what the definition of these terms is?

Apologies for my ignorance.

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Don’t worry about it.

The terms are just shorthand. MDL is the My Digital Life forum (great place). pastebin is a web site that allows you to paste in anything. If you install the patch and you can still use Bluetooth (or you don’t care if you can use Bluetooth), there’s nothing you need to do.

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So I installed KB3172605 and then the most recent RME driver update (the one which requires Driver Signing) and surprise, surprise, it won’t work.

Now I’m deciding whether to just uninstall …2605 or to restore my whole system from a cloned backup made last night.

Drat!

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+1

I do the same.
However TrustedInstaller.exe is supposed to resume from where it was stopped if this happened before finalising the current task.
I don’t know if this happens though.

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Okay, so the question is even though I’ve already installed KB3185330
…to make it right can I now safely install KB3172605 on top of that?

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…or if that’s not good then I can restore a backup image from the day before and start again?
I guess I’m not sure what to do now that I installed KB3185330 and found out you don’t like the win32k.sys

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@fl,

That doesn’t sound good.

What did you end up doing?

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KB3185330 doesn’t include KB3172605. It has fixed your update issue for another reason. You’re free to install KB3172605 to fix update issues permanently or install upcoming monthly rollups manually – because they are ones that cause the problem.

Regards, VZ

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VZ, Would you please provide a link for the download of October Security only update rollup for 32 bit machines?

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Yes, just install both
KB3185330 is going to be replaced after few hours anyway

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Here it is:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=53995

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Thanks VZ

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RME suggested that I needed to have KB2999226 (an update for Universal C Runtime) installed as well. I’ll post results when I have a chance to try it.

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They did it right this time with Windows 7/2008R2.
The November, 2016 Security Monthly Quality Rollup for Windows 7 (KB3197868) supersedes November, 2016 Security Only Quality Update for Windows 7 (KB3197867).
This means that there is no need to install both to be complaint with the security scanners out there, which is normal, as the Security Monthly includes the Security Only.

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@abbodi86:

I thought that originally KB3185330 was not supposed to be installed. ??

It had that “Security Quality Rollup for Win7 64x description” I’m in Group B, and that was the information that I annotated.

The “word “Quality” being there apparently, at that time, was what I stayed away from.

Thank you for any current information you have on this one for those in Group B, please? Thank you in advance.

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I also could not do the November Security update for Win 7 x64.
Does anyone have the link for that one?

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Wait, wait, wait!

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Wait.

If you’re in Group B, you don’t want KB 3185330.

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!

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Thank you, Woody, for verifying the information that I had on this one. I made a brief note just stating, “Not for Group B”.

I NEVER install anything unless I’m certain that it has been cleared by you! You are NEVER wrong!! Thank you once again!

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I’m wrong all the time, but OK.

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> woody says:
>
> November 8, 2016 at 2:52 pm
>
> Wait.
>
> If you’re in Group B, you don’t want KB 3185330.

dam, if I realized that the other day I would not have installed it.
No problem, I am restoring my C: partition image back to the day before to remove it, and will install what you original said as windows6.1-KB3172605-x86.msu …Is that still OK, and then await what you all recommend

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thank you for the replies, appreciate it.

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I didn’t mention it originally, he/you asked about it and why it solves the WU scan issue, and i just explained why

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Yep, the instructions for Group B from last month didn’t include installing 3185330. That’s the “Group A” rollup patch from October.

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*i check for updates daily under MS-Defcon 3, but have nothing since 9/12/2016*???
Most recent check for updates: 9/12/2016
Last updates installed: 9/5/2016 updates.

*i also have never seen, nor had the opportunity to choose a group*.
As Woody advised, i would like to choose Group A.

Optional Updates: [not installed]
1. Advanced Micro Devices – Audio Device – AMD High Definition Audio 2. Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3080079)
3. Update for Windows 7 for x64-based Systems (KB3102429)

*Any recommendations as how to proceed*?
[up until now, all was going well :)]

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Wait.

I’ll have full instructions when it’s safe to install the Group A patches.

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Thx Woody!
i did the above prior to getting your message, hopefully that works out ok.

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Thanks for cross-posting in the other thread.

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Yes thank you, you did explain:
> abbodi86 says:
> November 6, 2016 at 8:30 pm
> “KB3185330 contain win32k.sys patch which fix the issue temporary until Update Tuesday
whereas KB3172605 contain latest Windows Update Client which solve the issue permanently”
>

At the time I just did not completely understand all about what the win32k.sys patch did, and if then going forward that’s what I wanted, or not.
I’m still not completely sure, but I see now I am clearly in Group B

Thank you for your replies – I Do Appreciate it!

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I am new to your group so was/am still in the process of learning your posted informations and that of your right-hand helpers.
I see now I am Clearly in the Group B ..and then some. I only want to install critical updates and whatever else is obviously important, but nothing more.

Thank you for your work, and your replies

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It turned out that the RME driver also required the installation of KB2999226, which was somehow missing on my system. Once it was installed, everything worked properly with the new driver.

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A:I suggest placing the “search site” site at top of the page instead of 6 inches down in the R column.

B: I suggest a disambiguation of steps in the InfoWorld article as follows:

Step 2. See if all you need is patch KB3172605

The speed-up patch you want, KB3172605, requires that KB3020369 be already installed (KB3020369 is “April 2015 servicing stack update for Windows 7 and Windows Server 2008 R2.”) Most people already have KB3020369 installed (or have one of its workalikes, including KB3177467). If you don’t have KB3020369 and try to install KB3172605, the installer will give an error message, but no harm is done. That’s why I recommend you try to install KB3172605 first anyway. Follow steps 2A-2F:

Step 2A. If Windows 7’s Windows Update is in the middle of an update scan, click the “X” and reboot to stop the madness. Yes, even if you’ve been waiting for six hours, this will be faster. Trust me.

Step 2B. Download the KB3172605 MSU installer file. There are different versions for 32-bit and 64-bit.

Step 2C. Turn off the internet. If you’re attached via ethernet cable, pull the cable. Turn off Wi-Fi. Do whatever you need to get off the grid.

Step 2D. Run the installer. Double-click on the MSU file that you downloaded. It should finish in a couple of minutes. However, if you get the message “This update is not applicable to your computer,” make sure you tried to install the right version (32-bit or 64-bit). If you did try to install the correct 32-bit or 64-bit version and still got this message, jump down to Step 3.

Step 2E. Turn the internet back on.

Step 2F. Reboot. When your machine comes back up for air, you’re done. Try running Windows Update again and see if life in the fast lane is sweet.

Step 3. If your PC tells you that KB 3172605 is “not applicable to your computer” and you’re sure you tried to install the right version of the patch (32-bit vs. 64-bit), this is because your computer needs to have the KB3020369 patch. Follow steps 3A-3C to install it:

Step 3A. Turn the internet back on (if you turned it off during step 2c). Download the KB3020369 MSU installer file. There are different versions for 32-bit and 64-bit.

Step 3B. Install KB3020369 by double-clicking on the downloaded file.

Step 3C. That’s all you need—no reboot required, nothing squirrelly. Go back to Step 2 and resume installing KB3172605.

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I’ll be juggling the Search box as soon as the Lounge gets pasted on the site. As it stands, Search doesn’t work very well.

And for streamlining the post – thanks! I may be going back in for a re-write if there are big changes.

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First of all, I want to say that this site is awasome

I have Windows 7 Professional x64
and I have two question.

1) First question:
If I install “November Security Only Quality Update” must I install “October Security Only Quality Update”? And so on.. if I install “Security Only Quality Update” for December must I install it for November and October? Does “Security Only Quality Update” for actual month include (or somehow supersede) “Security Only Quality Update” from previous month?

2) Second question:
KB3172605 is July rollup, so it has a lot KBs. I see that it has KB3075249.
I found this description: KB3075249 – This update adds telemetry points to the User Account Control (UAC) feature to collect information on elevations that come from low integrity levels.
I don’t want telemetry.
So is it safe to install KB3172605 to speed up Windows Update on Windows 7 ?
On my computer Windows Update takes forever.
I tried to do this abbodi1406’s approach: https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/?p=1253845
but I completely doesn’t know what to do in the last step:
“the last step is compelety manual and take long time it’s to group each language components in separate folder
you will need to open each package .mum to identify the deployment manifests
after finishing this long task, you need to rename all packages to update.mum & update .cat

this step can be dropped if you choose to keep all packages without packing in separate .cab files
but in that case you will need to rename each package to distinguish it for each language
then for installation you point dism /packagepath to .mum file”
I tried to understand this but that what I was doing doesn’t work. Maybe it would be easier with some example.

It would be very nice if you or abbodi1406 could describe it a little further – maybe on any example.

Or is there another safe (without telemetry) method to speed up windows update on windows 7? Maybe other KBs or other manual approach or something else?

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1. The Security-only updates are NOT cumulative. We don’t have enough experience to know for sure, but likely you should install the older one first. There are a couple of threads here on that topic (searching for them will get easier when I get the Lounge worked out). That said, it’s too early to install the November Security-only update. As long as you don’t use IE or Edge, you’re safe.

2. Yes, 3172605 contains telemetry. The only way to get the benefits of 3172605 without the headaches is to use Abbodi’s approach. His special instructions only apply if you have Language Packs installed. As for details… (shrugs)

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Thank you for the answer.
I don’t have Language Packs installed.
My Windows 7 is x64.
So if I did all steps from https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/?p=1253845
with “now move back winsetupui to the current folder” inclusive
could you or Abbodi write what I should do next?
At this moment I have:
– 73 package files with .mum extension
– 73 package files with .cat extension
– and a lot .manifest files and directories (with language symbol or ‘none’ word and with ‘amd64’ or ‘wow64’).

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I’ll have to defer to Abbodi. I haven’t a clue.

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Ok, thank you.
So I wait for Abbodi’s answer. Does it mean that you have contact with Abbodi?

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He usually drops by AskWoody several times a week.

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1) Yes, you have to install all Security Only Quality Updates
unless one of the future Security Only Quality Updates supersede older Security Only Quality Update
this can be checked through MU catalog, click on update name and see Package Details

2) Telemetry points are not active or effective without the telemetry service installed, aka updates KB3068708 or KB3080149
so yes, KB3172605 is completely safe, but it’s your choice

you mixed the soultion post with technical post after it
the post link offers ready-to-use package, but if you are not a member at MDL, you won’t see the post
for that, you can check this link which explains the solution:
http://pastebin.com/UHXiAf4M

installation is easy, just extract the zip, right click on install-online.cmd and run as administror
then reboot

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Thanks for rescuing me!

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Thank you very much.

1) It isn’t possible that I could end this what I done already with your instruction? I only don’t know what to do to install those final 73 packages with .mum and .cat extension?

Maybe something like doing 73 times:
dism /packagepath:package_375_for_kb3172605~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~6.1.1.4.mum
(…)
dism /packagepath:package_447_for_kb3172605~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~6.1.1.4.mum

With exactly that commend above I get “Error: 87”,
but maybe something similar or something else can I do?

I would rather do it myself because I must say that I am a little concerned about links to those ready-to-use package, because my internet security warned me against them.

2) How can I check that I don’t have “telemetry service installed”?
I disabled something about telemetry long time ago, but I am not sure how to check it if I did it correct.

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1) Like i said, the steps you gone through was merely to explain how i repacked the packages
i don’t know at what stage you reached or how to proceeed
for x64 system, you would only need 4 packages

there is an easier way to do it, but i need to know your system language, is it en-US?

2) Check services tab, the telemetry service is “DiagTrack: Diagnostics Tracking Service”

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Thank you very much that you want to help me.

Ad. 1) My system language is pl-pl.

If it would be useful I remind that I did exactly all steps from https://forums.mydigitallife.info/threads/?p=1253845
with “now move back winsetupui to the current folder” inclusive.
And at this moment I have:
– 73 package files with .mum extension
– 73 package files with .cat extension
– and a lot .manifest files and directories (with language symbol or ‘none’ word and with ‘amd64’ or ‘wow64’).

Ad. 2) I was searching in my Administrative Tools -> Services for “Diagnostics Tracking Service” or “Connected User Experiences and Telemetry” (I found that name on the internet) or analogue in my language, but I didn’t find anything with words “tracking” or “telemetry”.
Is it possible because I have disabled everything in Task Scheduler under “Application Experience”, “Customer Experience Improvement Program”, “Autochk” and “Disk Diagnostic”?

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Worked for me. Windows update searched for 2 hours this morning without results. I then went to the optional updates and tried to install 3172605. 18 mb, but after 15 minutes it was still stuck at 0% downloading. followed the link in the Inforworld-article, remembered to yank out the network cable in time, installed the msu, and after a reboot Windows Update found the updates in <10 minutes. uckily there is no Intel Bluetooth in my pc, because otherwise this route to fast updating would not have been the road I could have followed. thank you Woody, once again. Whenever I get frustrated with Windows (update), there is a 99,99% chance I'll find a cure in your site!

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1) Well, the steps was not ment for installations, but for preparing and repacking

after you extract the .cab file with expand, you would need to add these packages:
dism /online /norestart /add-package /packagepath:package_418_for_kb3172605~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~6.1.1.4.mum /packagepath:package_419_for_kb3172605~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~6.1.1.4.mum

dism /online /norestart /add-package /packagepath:package_447_for_kb3172605~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~6.1.1.4.mum /packagepath:package_446_for_kb3172605~31bf3856ad364e35~amd64~~6.1.1.4.mum

execute the commands from directory where you extracted the cab file

2) No, it’s because you didn’t install KB3068708, KB3080149 or the Monthly Rollup

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– 2 Win 7×64 Home Premium OEM PC’s: Built Desktop & Toshiba Laptop

Woody,

Success. I’m in ‘Group A’ & installed the 2 Nov WU’s, the Nov Rollup KB3197868 & the monthly ‘Malicious Removal Tool’ KB890830 .

My complete WU install times, starting with the Download step & completing with the Restart & Desktop platform loaded, was about 25 minutes; a huge improvement from what had recently been taking anywhere from 6-8 hrs to complete. Most of that time, on my PC’s, was consumed during the Download step.

I also noticed something that’s a nice bonus from your ‘speedup’ guide results:

Starting somewhere back in Aug 2015 when the ‘GWX’ issues began, when I had been installing the Patch The WU’s, my CPU usage had been running around 25% anytime there were new WU’s present on the Windows Update (Control Pnl) page.

The usage was coming from the service C:Windowssystem32svchost.exe -k netsvcs

The CPU would stay at that level, sometimes for 2-3 days at a time, until I downloaded & installed the updates.

I didn’t see this issue arise on either PC when downloading & installing the Nov WU’s.

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@Abbodi Thank you very much for the answer and explanation.

I have in addition those (I think last) questions:

1) I did like Abbodi sad but I forgot to install KB3020369 – is it necessary to install KB3020369 ? I ask because I see that Windows Update searched updates very fast and showed me that I have new updates (and that didn’t work before).

2) Is there any practical difference between “Check for updates but let me choose whether to download and install them” and “Never check for updates (not recommended)” beside that with first option I am informed about new updates?

3) Is it safe now when it comes to telemetry etc and other big problems to install those Security Updates (now I have them in Hidden)? Maybe those problems of that time now (which I saw on the net) aren’t actual now.

3a) kb3139398 -> causing USB devices (thumb drives specifically) not to function (I use external USB hard drives)

3b) kb3146706 -> BSODs and longer desktop-to-desktop reboot

3c) KB915597 Definition Update for Windows Defender -> When I have already Internet Security should I update Definition Update for Windows Defender?

3d) KB890830 Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool -> When I have already Internet Security should I update Windows Malicious Software Removal Tool (and are there any problems with this)?

3e) KB3188740 October 2016 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET Framework 3.5.1 (I would have only security updates)

3f) KB3185319 (IE 11) -> in previous cumulative IE updates there where some problems and there was something about IE spying

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1) No, KB3020369 is not required in this case (only WU components)
however, installing KB3020369 (or better KB3177467) is recommended to improve the servicing stack

2) No really, “check only” do scheduled scans, “never check” do not do
so it’s the matter of wanting notification or doing the scans in your convenient time

3) Yes, all security updates (except the new Monthly Rollup) are telemetry-free

.NET and IE11 updates are also safe

as for problems, i never had any
and if they were broad, Microsoft would withdraw those updates

i don’t know about Definitions or MRT, as i never use any so-called protection programs

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@Abbodi Thank you very much for answers.

I updated all security updates beside beyond those which seem to me unsure:

1) KB3042058 -> winlogon spying?

2) kb3139398 -> causing USB devices (thumb drives specifically) not to function
(I use a lot external USB hard drives)
3) kb3146706 -> BSODs and longer desktop-to-desktop reboot

4) KB3192391 Security-only for October 2016
5) KB3188740 October 2016 Security and Quality Rollup for .NET Framework 3.5.1 (it has something beside security?)
6) KB3197867 Security-only for November 2016

Do you think that I should now install them all (beside November update until MS-DEFCON 3)?

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1) No
just the regular FUD from paranoia users who don’t understand SSL cipher suites

i did not face any issues with any of the updates, neither i seen one face it

.NET Rollup have quality fixes, which is on the same level as security fixes
if you avoided it now, the next Security Only .NET update will have both fixes
anyway, .NET updates are always safe

yes, if you are looking for security protection you should install them all

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…, and later found out that these updates interfered with Windows’ “Backup & Restore”, causing it to freeze in mid-backup. This happened for four out of four tries. I reverted, via a cloned backup, to the condition before applying either KB update as well as the new RME driver, and lo and behold, Backup & Restore works once again.

I guess my next step is to try a 3rd party Backup solution, and I’m leaning towards Macrium from all the posts in this thread, although I’ve used Paragon software in the past and have been reasonably satisfied that way.

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Thank you very much.

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Good news

latest individual WU Client update (March 2016) now fixes the issue, just like July 2016 rollup

that’s KB3138612 (Win7) and KB3138615 (Win8.1)
both fix the scan issue without the need for any other update, for now

not sure about how this worked, but probably it’s a result for a change in Windows Update detection rules or metadata
this change was first noticed by other user at MDL on preview tuesday (3rd tuesday)

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So it looks like Microsoft finally fixed the problem. Took ’em more than a year, eh?

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..and so how this this affect if we’ve already installed KB3172605 to fix it?
Maybe we don’t have to do anything, or are we suppose to now install one of these new ones?

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They already fixed it in the July 2016 rollup
and now the fix is somehow extended to March 2016 WU Client update

i tried inbox WU Client and older WU Client updates, but they still have the issue

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No affect
this just gives more options for the user
if you follow rollups path and have no Bluetooth issue, then KB3172605 is preferable
other than that, KB3138612 is good enough

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Sent you an e-mail when I did the fresh installs last week – about KB3138612. It finally stopped working when I installed the 2015 security updates and I had to use 605. Perhaps whatever 2015 security update broke WU has not been fixed in the later rolled security updates.

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Last sentence should be
Perhaps whatever 2015 security update broke WU has NOW been fixed in the later rolled security updates.

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Not working for me. Cancelled my scan after an hour. Just checked and found that KB3138612 was installed in April. I was hoping to avoid KB3172605 as I need to update a couple of laptops that have bluetooth. Does it only work if you ave taken Oct/Nov rollups ? I have installed (group B) Oct/Nov security only.

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I believe KB3138612 works only if WU database is new, this eliminate the bad metadata
meaning, you would need to either reset the database or uninstall KB3138612 then reinstall it

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This worked great for me on a Thinkpad X230. But no go on a Dell XPS 8100 from 2010. Both were current with Win7 SP1 and updates through September when I tried it. In both cases I downloaded the 64-bit versions of the updates and disconnected from the internet before starting the updates. When I double-click on the .msu files the Dell pops up a ‘searching this computer for updates’. After three hours of that I killed the process and tried to install 3020369 with the same result. So now I’m back hooked up to the internet and letting Windows Update do its same old check for updates routine.

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Try this solution on the Answers forum:
http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-7-update-solution/f39a65fa-9d10-42e7-9bc0-7f5096b36d0c

If that does not work,
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_7-update/windows-update-doesnt-work-even-with-the-solution/1e7c6642-fd2b-4122-a62d-b5dff90b777d?tm=1477181520617

The most common mistake is not setting Windows Update to Never and restarting.

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You don’t need to disconnect from internet if you changed WU setting to “Never check…” then reboot
follow these instructions:
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3200747

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They were not current with updates through September if you needed to install older updates. Current means to have EVERYTHING installed up to the date mentioned. Any other interpretation is inaccurate.

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Ok, problem resolved. Canadian Tech nailed it. It appears that I had missed resetting Windows Update back to Never. I fixed that, restarted, followed the rest of the procedure and was able to get the November updates in about 10 minutes.

ch100: Point taken. I should have said “current with updates recommended by Woody and Susan Bradley” or something similar . . .

Thanks everyone.

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I have advocated for the WU setting of Never for more than a year. I amazes me how reticent people are to use that setting: “Never check for updates (not recommended)”

It really does not mean never update. It really means you want your system to never check for updates and instead you take responsibility and control over the process.

In effect you are removing Microsoft’s ability to control what happens to your system.

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Susan Bradley recommends installing everything as far as I know, unlike Woody who has a more granular approach with his Group B style of updating.
I am glad that you sorted your updating problem for the time being, but unless you move to Group A and install everything as it is recommended by the official documentation (taking in consideration the due delay of few weeks), the Windows Update issues are likely to re-surface.

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Susan is definitely in teh Group A tent – although she waits before updating, too.

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Likelihood of the Update issues resurfacing isn’t a matter of affiliation to Group A or B. It’s a matter of KB3172605 installed or not. Without it, likelihood of issues to resurface becomes certainty. With it, likelihood of issues to resurface drops to zero.

Regards, VZ

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Has KB3172605 only ever been listed under Optional updates in Windows Update or was it bumped up to Important at some point?

If the later, how come if it is critical to Windows Update functioning properly it hasn’t been listed as Important?

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I only see it as Optional.

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Pardon me please, but WU has made little sense in a long time. KB3172605 is so critical that WU effectively does not work without it.

We discovered this back in the Summer. It was not announced by MS. I am doubtful “they” even knew about it. The Answers forum is full of stories of people who called for Microsoft help and paid for it multiple times and the Microsoft technicians did not know about this KB and spent many hour and dollars achieving nothing.

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I think it was changed in September 2016 when it was updated to Recommended, but it may show as Optional if the relevant check box is not ticked.
The latest WU agent marked as Critical in WU at the moment is only the March 2016 KB3138612.
From
https://support.microsoft.com/en-au/kb/3172605

This update is provided as a Recommended update on Windows Update. For more information about how to run Windows Update, see How to get an update through Windows Update.

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Actually Woody announced KB3161608 as “the fix” earlier and very few people paid attention at that time.
http://www.infoworld.com/article/3086811/microsoft-windows/microsoft-releases-kb-3161647-kb-3161608-to-fix-slow-windows-7-update-scans.html

KB3161608 was replaced the following month by KB3172605 which was replaced again in September 2016 by… KB3172605 and this is the one which should be installed now.

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There it is.

I was looking at the Windows Update official list – which only shows KB3172605 as Optional, with no metadata change.

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Since that update is crucial for Windows Update, shouldn’t Microsoft list it as important? Those that have give me recommended updates unchecked would never know otherwise if not for sites like this.

Seems like if a time zone change gets listed as important for everyone, then an update that is required for Windows Update to even function should have been also. I always thought that Windows Update updated itself automatically as part of its functioning anyway.

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I suppose it is not listed as Important because there are components in the update which still cause issues with certain Intel hardware. Based on previous history, those patches are generally not even promoted to Recommended, but rather left in Optional forever. It is a way of shifting responsibility for the installation from Microsoft to the user, because there are known unresolved issues and this makes the patch not suitable for everyone. The next level down is a hotfix, which is not even publicised to the larger public in Windows Update.

Important patches are those which MUST be installed, Recommended only SHOULD be installed.

Note: KB3172605 is not only a Windows Update agent, but a collection of multiple updates bundled in one installer.

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Any chance Microsoft starts offering required Windows Update agents by themselves rather than bundling them with other things for that reason? So that items critical to Windows Update functioning can be marked as important.

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There are no chance

that would require them to update all WSUS products, bundle new WUA for downlevel systems.. etc

they already start eliminating individual updates model for rollup model, which eventually will include WU client

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I think @guest refers to the WU agent in KB3172605 to be presented like KB3138612 as separate and Critical Update, which in WU appears as Important non-security.
This discussion will no longer be relevant soon as the rollups will bundle everything under the name of “Security Update” released every second Tuesday of each month and as Preview releases in one of the other Tuesdays.

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I have been using KB3172605 as the “speedup” for Win7. But I have noticed that if the computer has not been updated in a while that KB3138612 will show up in the list of important updates if it has not already been installed.

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According to abbodi86, KB3172605 include bit by bit KB3138612. For an unknown (to me) reason though, the metadata supersedence which is taken in consideration by WU and WSUS when offering updates does not reflect this fact and KB3138612 is offered in addition to KB3172605. The supersedence relation between updates is shown in Catalog and in WSUS. They are both identical and they cannot be different because they have the same reference, which I think is the Catalog, but it may be other database at Microsoft.
There is no harm in installing both updates, because internally this is sorted out by TrustedInstaller.exe, however the only benefit is to keep WU quiet and clean.
Probably this is the most authoritative official article published by Microsoft in this matter.
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3200747

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Equivalent Windows 8.1 one KB3138615 have the same supersedence status
when the fixed WU client was released first in June rollup KB3161606, KB3138615 was still requested by WU despite being superseded
however, when July rollup KB3172614 is released, WU/Catalog metadata was updated to declare KB3138615 as superseded

i do not know why they did not do the same for Windows 7 one KB3138612, but it might be related to the GDR/LDR mess

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