How would you install Win7 from scratch?

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Getting more email questions that all boil down to: I have Win7 SP1 installed. I want to get it up-to-date, without installing the snooping stuff. How
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I had to do that a few days ago. Basically follow this guide:

http://www.freenode-windows.org/resources/vista-7/windows-update

You may need to stop the Windows Update service again before the second and third updates, otherwise it may get stuck searching despite being disconnected from the Internet.

And note that it’s quite normal for it to be stuck on initializing updates for 15 minutes even after the Windows Update agent patch. But it won’t take hours to search for updates.

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There’s lots of ways the easy way is to “slap” the install disk in or make a USB with Rufus from an .iso and follow the instructions. Then enter your computer name and password. Don’t enable windows update, skip the activation (do it later) don’t bother setting the network up if it gives you the option, if it doesent you’ll need network drivers handy (can do all that later) copy kb3138612 & kb947821 and install from desktop in that order reboot as necessary. Connect to internet and enable windows update as you like, but use “check for updates choose which to download”. Hit check and then grab a coffee or Beer or even a Smoke. 10-12 mins later after the “flood gates” have opened you should have around 205 x86 220 x64. as for choosing the good from the bad updates the answers out there on these pages. You are done! 🙂
That’s the easy way but of course there’s a myriad of different machines and scenarios out there and more than a “Boat load” of what if’s 🙂

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Believe it or not, Ed Bott (Mr. Windows 10 himself) has a guide to getting this done as well, though I think those who want to opt for something other than Group A may have to make adjustments to which updates they install:

article/four-steps-to-reduce-the-pain-of-windows-7-installations-using-cumulative-updates/

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Yep, that’s definitely Group A, all the way.

http://www.techproresearch.com/article/four-steps-to-reduce-the-pain-of-windows-7-installations-using-cumulative-updates/

The report is from “TechPro Research – a TechRepublic and ZDNet joint venture.” You may not realize it, but both ZDNet and TechRepublic are owned lock, stock and barrel by CBS. So are CNet, Metacritic and Modern Auto Reviews.

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Did this yesterday.
After install, I installed the September servicing stack update, July rollup, IE11, then checked for updates. 3 minutes later or so, 145 important, 60ish recommended first go around. 4 of the recommended were telemetry updates, which were hidden and disregarded.

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Seems much simpler than Ed Bott’s approach.

Do you have KB numbers? (I assume they’re the wu.krelay.de/en numbers.)

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Simplest way might be to just re-install, and then use Spybot Anti-Beacon…

https://www.safer-networking.org/spybot-anti-beacon/

Pre-download all Windows Updates using WSUS Offline, and follow their instructions on how to exclude updates from installing.

http://download.wsusoffline.net/

Make sure you have all the product licensing keys for the software you’ll need to re-install.

Nirsoft’s Produkey is a good tool for finding those…

http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

Add Windows Update MiniTool for managing updates going forward and you should be good to go…

http://www.majorgeeks.com/files/details/windows_update_minitool.html

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I have Windows 7 for now and am in Group B. I am content to keep it until end of support in 2020. At that time I think I may decide to get a copy of Windows 8.1 however I would like to remain in Group B and keep all the snooping off.

How any one created an 8.1 like of KB’s to avoid?

Would I just use windows update to get all the KB’s through Sept 2016 then try to find a list of security only KB’s to down load from the catalog? or would I need a list of all KB’s I want and go one by one from the catalog?

I know its three years away but I am a planner and I would like to have an idea of what I will do.

Woody, that may be a good thing to keep posted somewhere for when the time comes as I am sure I won’t be the only one going that route.

I figure I may use that time to learn Linux for when 8.1 is no longer supported and that all the programs I need will have a Linux option.

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Right now, it looks like you would update to September, and then apply each Security-only update, month by month.

I plan on having a full list in the Lounge, when it settles down a bit. One of the AskWoody Knowledge Base articles.

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Another option for “refreshing” Windows 7 without losing your programs and data is an “upgrade in place” repair installation as outlined in Shawn Brink’s tutorial on SevenForums…

http://www.sevenforums.com/tutorials/3413-repair-install.html

I recently refreshed two laptops with OEM installations over the past two weeks, and it worked great…until it came to activation.

For Toshiba, Dell and many other OEM’s, the product key is system locked, meaning that it is tied to the motherboard. Your copy is genuine, but it will not activate using that product key.

So the WARNING FOR OEM REPAIR INSTALLS…

Activation is done through a .XRM-MS cert file that is embedded in the file token.dat.

BEFORE DOING A REPAIR INSTALL ON AN OEM SYSTEM…

Find the cert key location and extract the cert key using the freeware program SLIC Toolkit Version 3.2

http://www.afterdawn.com/software/desktop/programming/slic_toolkit.cfm

Save the licensing key cert by clicking the Backup button on the Advanced tab twice.

To re-insert the licensing key cert after doing the repair install, open an elevated (Run as Administrator) Command prompt, and enter the following…

C:Windowssystem32>slmgr.vbs -ilc C: {Your folder location} {Your Cert key file name}.xrm-ms

Reboot, and your repair install should be activated.

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Woody,

This may be a dumb question, but should I go ahead and update to IE 11 on Windows 7 SP1? Download or through Windows Update? I am required to use an application that required IE 10, but that was 1-2 years ago when we couldn’t use IE 11. Should I just go ahead and install it, and then ask IT, or wait? I know I can always rollback. I also know there isn’t compatability mode..

I know IE can be buggy in general, so the rollback may mess with stability. Your take?

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Another vote for WSUS Offline. It cannot be beaten in streamlining the update process for a fresh install.

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Group A only.
I tried to keep it universal for Group A and group B, but I found it is too hard for Group B.
Warning: Do not install KB971033 and KB2952664.
If you know what you do, you can install those 2 updates as well. I install routinely only KB2952664, but you don’t have to do the same. You are still considered fully patched (Group A) without those updates.
None of the other updates should be avoided, except for Optional updates, which I recommend but they are not mandatory. They are Optional, it is YOUR option. 🙂

1. Install Windows 7 64-bit SP1
2. Configure Windows Update on Never check for updates. Deselect Recommended included if selected (it is not by default).
3. Run Windows Update. This will automatically install “something” and restart. That “something is Windows Update Agent 7.6.7600.320
4. From the list, deselect everything and select only Windows 7 Service Pack 1 – this is an add-on to SP1 which is the Servicing Stack Update KB2533552.
5. Restart if required or else continue.
6. Run Windows Update again
7. Select only Important updates less KB971033 and deselect all Security updates and IE11. Install and Restart.
8. Run Windows update again.
9. Select everything coming under Important less KB971033, security and non-security except IE11. If you don’t have enough memory, you could select only about 25 updates at a time. Install and Restart.
10. Repeat until there is nothing left under Important, except IE11.
11. Run Windows Update again and install IE11.
12. Run Windows Update after restart.
13. Install all updates including Recommended, except for KB2952664 when offered – see notes above.
14. Repeat until finished.

If my mistake you installed KB971033 and KB2952664, they can be gracefully uninstalled.

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How I would install Windows 7 SP1 from scratch would be is first I would I download any latest drivers I needed from the manufacturers sites for my motherboard and GPU and save them to a USB flash drive. This is to save time later. Then if it were me I’d check for a new BIOS version. Might as well.

Then I would manually download whatever current updates will speed up the update scans. Right now I find that the July 2016 Rollup (KB3172614) and September 2016 Servicing Stack Update (KB3177467) do the trick nicely. Then I’d save the installers to the same flash drive as the drivers.

Then I would go onto Ninite and select any programs I regularly use like Google Chrome, VLC, CCCP, Steam, etc. It’ll download a 413 KB EXE that’ll automatically download and install any programs you checked off. Any programs you might use that you can’t get through Ninite I would download the installers for and save them to the aforementioned flash drive. Again. Saves time because you won’t have to download them later.

I would first update my BIOS Usually the manufacturers of your motherboard or computer if you bought a prebuilt one should have software that’ll update the BIOS for you. You’d ideally want to update your BIOS before reinstalling Windows, but if you’re afraid you might brick your system then don’t update the BIOS.

Then I would reformat the drive or during the installation delete any partitions on the drive where you’ll be installing Windows. After installing Windows I’d stick my flash drive into the computer and first install the updates that’ll speed up the scans. If you’re given a reboot request don’t do it right away. Because if you want this to take as little time as possible then you’ll want to do one reboot at the end.

After installing the speed up patches I would then install my drivers. And using Ninite I would install any programs that you might use. And then after Ninite is done and you’re done with those two updates and your drivers, then reboot. Then begins Windows updates. You’ll probably have to set aside a couple of hours for the updates. Then using something like CCleaner I would run it to delete any temporary files. And then I would run disk cleanup just to delete any superseded updates.

As for avoiding “snooping” updates you’ll have to ask Woody which ones to avoid. But hope this helps someone out there.

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Not a dumb question at all!

I would go ahead and install IE 11 and see if it works. IE isn’t that buggy – it’s just the target of a whole lot of malware.

But I would also try to move to Firefox or Chrome.

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I forgot to mention that you’ll need to make sure to have your Windows product key. You need to make sure to have it before you reinstall Windows otherwise good luck with reactivating Windows.

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Correct, I follow them (and you). 🙂
Win7 Pro 64-bit here.
[In order of installation]
September servicing stack – KB3177467
July rollup – KB3172605
IE 11 – IE11-Windows6.1-x64-en-us.exe

The last few times, I’ve had issues with gpedit giving an error on launch related to a line error with C:WindowsPolicyDefinitionsinetres.admx which requires replacing that file (and the one under en-USInetRes.adml) using the Group Policy Administrative Template files for Internet Explorer (KB2841134, https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=40905). I’d never had to do this before, and I think it may be because I installed IE11 before the September servicing stack and July rollup on a machine yesterday for some reason (and I think that’s the cause). But, just something to mention.

The telemetry/CEIP related updates that came up as recommended (that I’ve hidden/disregarded) were:
KB2952664
KB3021917
KB3068708
KB3080149

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Microsoft has published (2 weeks ago) a technet article how to build a Windows 7 refresh media. I’ve written about that at http://borncity.com/win/2017/01/13/how-to-create-a-windows-7-sp-refresh-media/

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Woody, just curious have your written a book on or considered writing a book on Linux for a home user?

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@ SomeDude ……. In general, there is no real need to download device drivers b4 doing a clean install of Win 7 bc the Win 7 Install Media(= DVD or USB-stick) from M$-website contains all the basic/generic standardized essential device drivers for most cptrs in use, eg for the motherboard, internal hard drive, display, keyboard n mouse, Ethernet connection, DVD-drive n USB 2.0 ports, in order to hv a general cptr system up n running.
……. In fact, if the Win 7 Install DVD was provided by the OEM, all drivers for that specific model of the OEM Win 7 cptr r already included.

After a clean install, sometimes, 1 or 2 peripheral or non-essential device drivers may be missing, eg for the Wifi card, Sound card, Multi-card reader adapter(eg for camera SD cards), Printers, etc, … n usually Windows Update will automatically detect n install the missing drivers for the users via the Internet/Ethernet. If not, then only will the users need to go to the OEM or device manufacturer website for the missing driver/s n do a manual install. Similarly, if they need to manually install the latest updated/better essential device drivers to replace the already-installed basic/generic drivers.
.
Maybe, only those who build their own exclusive high-end cptrs, eg software developers, online gamers n bitcoin miners, need to do as SomeDude, ie pre-download their cptr drivers b4 a clean install.

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Good advice overall, probably the most useful here. 🙂

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Woody, the browser agent string in IE11 is unlike any other IE version. It tries to claim that it is Chrome-like, but the engine is not Chrome’s, but Trident. This causes compatibility problems with applications trying to sniff the browser agent string and server applications differently according to the browser. There are 2 compatibility modes built in IE11, one is the “traditional” Compatibility View which tries to emulate IE7 but there is also Enterprise Mode which the user can set as well, locally or managed centrally. In this case, if IE10 works, the Enterprise Mode should be configured most likely for “Document Mode 10”.
There is no easy answer to this question.

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@ jmwoods ……. Yr option for a “Repair Install” looks very complicated for the average Win 7 user. So, better for the users to stick to the normal clean install of Win 7 via a DVD or USB-stick = activate the Win 7 license by entering the Product Key of the COA sticker, which is usually attached to bottom of the laptop or the side of the desktop-tower.
.
All new OEM Win 7 cptrs that were sold came pre-activated at factory with the same OEM-SLP Volume License keys = less work for the OEMs, eg Dell n HP.
……. Thereafter, if the users do a clean install, they hv to use the individualized COA sticker Product Key for re-activation.

Manual re-activation with a COA PK is not required for a clean install of Win 8/8.1/10 bc the Product Key is hard-embedded in the motherboard = less risk of piracy = easy automatic online re-activation by M$. In comparison, for Win 7, the PK is soft-embedded in the hard-drive.

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How about a fresh install of Windows7 Retail, pre-service pack 1?

I haven’t tried it recently, but I have a retail disc not in use by anyone. I plan to use WSUS offline for initial updates. As I am limited to very restricted internet usage per day*, I dread the inevitable change to W10.

*450MB/day(max)@250KBps(max)@$120/month(nojoke)

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But isn’t KB2533552 superseded by KB3177467 ???

http://www.catalog.update.microsoft.com/ScopedViewInline.aspx?updateid=16740a04-df6d-4be3-b27f-f7cdb287ebf2

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I tried a new install but I got stuck with 2 updates which are apparently known to be problematic. Both were released in February 2015, one of them revised in May 2015.
They simply refuse to install and I am wondering what our experts here would know about them.

KB3004375
KB3031432

They are both top of the supersedence chains to which they belong, probably the fixes implemented are not needed by most people, however they are Security Updates and for the sake of having a consistent Windows image, they should be installed and installed correctly.
Few references:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=2920727
http://www.sevenforums.com/windows-updates-activation/365983-kb3004375-kb3031432-wont-install-2.html?s=452c9d751e118ba39da708a52864057e
https://windowstechcorner.wordpress.com/2015/04/19/windows-7windows-update-problems-kb3021952-kb3004375-and-kb3031432/

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I think I found the answer.
KB3000483 is bundled with KB3004375
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/3000483/ms15-011-vulnerability-in-group-policy-could-allow-remote-code-execution-february-10,-2015
However, somehow on Windows update they got messed up and it is likely that the order of the updates installed was wrong.
In the same article, it says:
This security update includes some files that are in security update 3031432

This means that KB3000483 is the master update for the other two updates, but on my machine they did not install together.

After reinstalling KB3000483, it all went smooth.

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What a mess. KB3031432 was revised in May 2015 and contains the files from KB3004375.

This means that the correct order is:
KB3000483 which will install KB3004375
KB3031432 which will install again KB3004375 (revised may be)

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Aaaaaarrrrgh!

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Nope. I don’t know enough about the topic.

But we will have a forum in the new Lounge (if it ever gets here!) that’s specifically for Windows users who are moving to other platforms – Linux, macOS, ChromeOS in particular.

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Interesting. For folks familiar with the Windows command line, I’d say that’s considerably simpler than Ed’s approach – and you end up with a USB that’ll install anytime, anywhere.

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Thank you Günter.
You will see in the comments on the Technet site some people from here. 🙂

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@ Schnarph ……. Fyi, eg in New York City, HughesNet is offering satellite Internet(= similar technology as mobile/cell broadband Internet, ie OTA – over-the-air, n not thru-land-cables)
for US$60 per month for 15GB Data Cap(= 450MB per day) at 10Mbps or 1000KBps, with a bonus of 50GB Data Cap from 2am-8am. But inclement weather will cause service disruption…
https://www.hughesnet.com/get-started
.
With this ISP, the huge Win 10 cumulative updates and/or feature updates/upgrades can be done between 2am n 8am = won’t incur overage fees.

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Just too complicated to explain it again for the millionth time.

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We really need to break off important topics like this and put them in separate Topics, in the new Lounge. Sorry it’s taking so long.

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Good article there @Gunter Born if anyone wants to try that it works really well but there’s one shortcut that will save you all a lot of time and hassle. Just “throw” all the updates (.msu or .cab) in a folder and call it c:packages.
Then amend the 2nd to the last CMD line to

dism /image:c:testoffline /add-package /packagepath:c:packages

Gunter’s method is the correct way to add packages but its quicker & easier to stick all of them in a folder and leave dism to it. Using dism isn’t quick though even with any shortcut.
If you can grasp Gunter’s method there a few programmes out there thatll do it in a “point & click” scenario from the desktop.

https://mikecel79.wordpress.com/

https://sourceforge.net/projects/vdism/

(with these just create any empty folder any where ie c:mount for clarity)

lastly if any of you have trouble installing win7 and it stops the install looking for a driver and you know you have or suspect you have USB3 ports then this will get you through.

http://codeabitwiser.com/2014/03/how-to-install-windows-7-with-only-usb-3-0-ports/

this works for adding other drivers you may need as well. (after a few simple additions)
What you get after all this is a fully updated image that you can, as Woody says, go anywhere and install anywhere but uniquely tailored to you system as well. The only downside is it takes a bit of time to do but not even 1sec more to install. 🙂

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Thx, haven’t visited the Technet article after I wrote the German blog post.

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@ch100 curious thing it seems kb971033 is no longer being offered in the M$ catalogue and, as the last 2 weeks have been win7x86 (for some unknown reason)weeks, No longer appearing in the outstanding list of updates on offer after installing. It always appeared “unchecked” which was promptly hidden. Mainly because if your key is “Genuine” its a potential problem just waiting to happen and, obviously, one less to install. Not sure if this is the case with win7x64 the last one I did was quite some time ago and it appeared then.

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I have a User with a “check reader” for bank deposit over the Internet. The company SAYS the reader works with IE11, but every time we’ve tried to upgrade IE10 on Win7 to IE11 it hoses the s/w – even with their assistance online.
So we’re stuck with IE10.

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I tested this in a VM late last night.
The IE11 update broke gpedit again, even after installing in the “proper” order (servicing stack -> rollup -> IE11).
Upon launching gpedit, you get the following error:
Administrative Templates
Encountered an error while parsing.
Resource ‘$(string.Advanced_EnableSSL3Fallback)’
referenced in attribute displayName could not be
found.

File C:WindowsPolicyDefinitionsinetres.admx, line
795, column 308

OK

(screenshot: https://i.imgur.com/73Ts8NS.png)

Oddly enough, after going through and installing all of the important updates (all 145-ish), the error no longer happens. Apparently one of those updates fixed it, though I hate to admit that I have no idea which one.

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Nice guide

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I do this routinely. I have a procedure I documented that starts with replacing the hard drive. It works every time and is not complicated. By the way, it will install IE11 all by itself. No additional steps necessary.

2.I do this all the time. I have done hundreds. This is likely to take an elapsed time of around 12 hours.
3.First go to your computer’s OEM support site and find and download the drivers for your computer and store them on a USB stick.
4.From this point onward, I am providing you with the process to install Windows 7.
5.You may be able to take your data off first. Remove the failing hard drive and put it into a USB external drive housing. Connect to a working PC, copy the data off. You may need a friend to do this part for you, but the rest is not really very technical or difficult for most people.
6.Install the new hard drive.
7.Do not do any formatting or partitioning.
8.If you made a set of disks for recovery or an image copy at the time your computer was new. This is the time you need them.
9.Start your computer on the first of the disks as instructed and in an hour or so, your computer will look exactly as it did then.
10.If you do not have that set of disks. You will need a legal reusable Microsoft Product Key. You will need a Windows 7 install disk. The win7 disk must match the edition of your product key, and its bitness (32 or 64). If you do not have the original Windows 7 install disk, borrow one from a friend. Hopefully, the disk you use will be labeled SP1 (Service Pack 1), because that will save you an additional 4 hours or so.
11.Place the Windows 7 install disk in the disk reader and start your computer.
12.Once the install process is started, choose CUSTOM. Ignore the check box about drivers, unless you can not proceed further.
13.When you get to the place where it asks you where to put the installation, click Advanced and delete all partitions.
14.When the installer asks about Windows update, choose Ask me later
15.Once Windows 7 SP1 is installed, install the following:
16.KB3020369 Win-7 32 https://download.microsoft.com/download/C/0/8/C0823F43-BFE9-4147-9B0A-35769CBBE6B0/Windows6.1-KB3020369-x86.msu
17.Win-7 64 bit https://download.microsoft.com/download/5/D/0/5D0821EB-A92D-4CA2-9020-EC41D56B074F/Windows6.1-KB3020369-x64.msu
18.KB3172605 Win-7 32 bit, https://download.microsoft.com/download/C/D/5/CD5DE7B2-E857-4BD4-AA9C-6B30C3E1735A/Windows6.1-KB3172605-x86.msu
19.Win-7 64 bit, https://download.microsoft.com/download/5/6/0/560504D4-F91A-4DEB-867F-C713F7821374/Windows6.1-KB3172605-x64.msu
20.Open Windows Update, change Windows Update setting to Never check for updates
21.Do not install anything else at this point – NOTHING
22.Start the update process. It is likely to include about 200. It will take some time.
23.Once you have a list of updates, you need to prevent certain specific updates from being installed to prevent Windows 10 from taking over.
24.Click once on each Update that is NOT labeled SECURITY and check the date of issue on the right. If that date is after January 1, 2015, Right-click on it and hide.
25.Click install updates and wait for it to finish. Restart when asked to do so.
26.After re-start is complete and you see a desktop, start Task manager – Right-click on task bar. Look at the % at the bottom. Do NOT attempt to use the computer for any purpose until you see that % fall to and stay at 10% or less. Windows Update is still working and has a lot of work to do.
27.Keep running Windows Update again and again till it offers no new ones.
28.Start Internet Explorer, click the gear (upper right) in IE11 and select Compatibility settings and enter Microsoft.com in the list
29.Start Windows Update and click the link to include updates for other Microsoft software.
30.Run Windows Update again and again until you are satisfied you have all the updates you want.
31.After the install is complete, check Device Manager. Type device in the text box above the start globe when you click it and choose Device manager from the list to find out if Win7 was able to supply the drivers you need. You should get drivers only from the maker of your computer or Intel. Its best to get all the drivers at this point. Win7 install may have installed all of them or nearly. Do NOT use any of those driver download sites. They are all bogus, have bad drivers, and install malware.
32.Install your Microsoft Office software and then run Windows Update again and again till no more are proposed.
33.Defragment your drive. Type defragment in the text box above the start globe when you click it once. Choose the Defragmentation link. Wait till it completes all passes..
34.Next, you will need to take steps to prevent Windows 10 from taking over. First step is to change the Windows Update setting to NEVER. Second step is to download and install GWX Control Panel.

New install tip:

After Windows 7, system drivers and all updates are installed and any stable applications like Microsoft Office are installed and updated, and before any data or dynamic applications are installed such as antivirus software, create a system image. It will take 3 or 6 DVD +Rs (not -Rs) and about an hour. When you are done you will have a very nice bit of insurance. Should you ever again need to re-build a corrupted system or replace a hard drive, you will have a precise duplicate of your system as it was at this point. You can restore that image to a hard drive in about 20 minutes. Creation of System Image is found in your menu under Maintenance, Backup and Restore.

Another great feature about using the image is that you do not need an install disk or a product key to do the re-install the next time, and you will have saved yourself all the time you put in this time.

I emphasize the need for PLUS R DVD blanks. Do not use the more common MINUS R DVD blanks.

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Which IE11 update percisely?
the monthly rollup needs to be installed after IE11

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I did one yesterday – dual core Pentium laptop w/ 4GB RAM (not your fastest). So this should work for fairly low-end machines. The installs are done in batches so as not to overload the machine.
NOTE Machine may require reboot between installs.
NOTE If you are installing Win7SP1 the first two installs will be together.

OFFLINE:
1. Install Win7 from Factory Restore disks (no SP1). (do not check “activate online, do not set up Windows Update)
2. Install SP1 from DVD or file.
3. Set Windows Update to “Never check” and check “Give me recommended updates.”
4. Control PanelAdministrative ToolsServices – highlight Win Update Service and click on “stop” at the top if it is running.
5. Download (on another PC) and manually install KB3177467 Sept servicing stack then KB3172605 July Rollup.

ONLINE:
NOTE Search for updates/UNCHECK all important updates following each install/reboot.
NOTE After each install/reboot, open Task Manager (right click on Taskbar) and wait for CPU usage to drop and stay below 10%
6. Search for updates.
7. HIDE KB2952664, KB3021917, KB3062708, KB3080149, and KB3184143
8. Uncheck ALL important updates
9. Check and install “Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2013 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
10. Check and install “Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2014 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
11. Check and install “Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2015 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
12. Check and install “Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2016 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
13. Check and install KB2670838 Platform Update (it will be in “optionals”), IE11, and .NET 4.5.2 or 4.6.1 (ONLY)
14. If there are any additional “Update for Win7,” check and install them. Reboot/wait/search.
15. Check and install any “Update for User-Mode Driver Framework”, Update for Kernel-Mode Driver Framework,” and “Update for ActiveX Killbits.” Reboot/wait/search.
16. Check and install “Security Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2013 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
17. Check and install “Security Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2014 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
18. Check and install “Security Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2015 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
19. Check and install “Security Updates for Win7” (ONLY) dated 2016 and before. Reboot/wait/search.
20. Check and install “Updates for MS .NET Framework” – whichever version you installed(ONLY). Reboot/wait/search.
21. Check and install “Security Updates for MS .NET” – whichever version you installed(ONLY). Reboot/wait/search.
22. UNCHECK any of the “Security Monthly Quality Rollups for Win7” that appear in the list OCT, Nov, Dec 2016 or Jan 2017) and install everything that is checked. Reboot/wait/search. UNCHECK/DO NOT INSTALL any “Security Monthly Quality Rollups for Win7.” Do this until there are no more checked updates.

DECISION:
Are you in Group A (accept everything MS gives you) or Group B (security-only)?

Group A:
23A. Check and install any “Security Monthly Quality Rollups for Win7” that appear. Reboot/wait/search.
You will probably only see Oct2016 and Jan 2017 because they are cumulative.

Group B:
23B. Download the “Security only Quality Updates” from the MS Catalog for Oct KB3192319, Nov KB3197867, Dec KB3205394 2016 and Jan 2017 KB3212642. Be sure to get the right x64 for 64-bit and x86 for 32-bit.
24B. To manually install: Control PanelAdministrative ToolsServices and stop the Windows Update Service.
25B. Install in chronological order. You may have to reboot/wait and stop the Update Service each time. They are not cumulative.
After Jan 2017, I understand there will be two security-only downloads, one for Win7 and one for IE11.

AFTER INSTALLATION:
Run Disk CleanupCleanup System Files to clean up Windows Update.
If you have a spinning hard drive (NOT an SSD), defragment the drive.
Set Windows Update to “Never check” or “Search but let me decide whether to download and install.” (“Download but let me choose” DOES NOT WORK)
Wait for Woody to change DEFCON to 3 or above.

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Usually I like to have the drivers downloaded so I won’t need to download them later. Also since I build my computer my motherboard’s Ethernet doesn’t work out of the box without manually installing the driver. I’m in the camp that if you want the computer to function as efficiently as possible then you want to get the latest drivers. But that’s just me.

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Thank you for the information, but HughesNet is my current ISP. There is only one other viable alternative which is Exede, also satellite. They claim to be much faster but so does HughesNet. The real challenge is having 3 Windows computers, thus the necessity for WSUSoffline. It’s the huge Windows10 updates I fear most, I can only download ~3.5GB in the 2am-7am period.

I have watched Time Warner repair their line which runs over my driveway but they “have no plans” to run the cable to my house or my neighbors. I asked them to “name their price for installation”, but they still refused.

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I have seen this with Windows 10 breaking .admx files, but I don’t remember noticing with Windows 7.

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@Canadian Tech
Out of scope
If I may ask, what is the relevance of DVD Plus R vs Minus R for common data? I think I remember reading that Plus R are superior for other purposes like DVD Videos, but I really did not pay much attention.

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Sorry @JustMe, you are right about supersedence, it only avoids a cosmetic issue due to Microsoft’s neglect to update their own information or it may be on purpose for special reasons not so visible.
Like how KB3020369 is still recommended first, even if it is superseded by KB3177467. This is because KB3020369 can be slipstreamed in an offline image, while the newer one cannot.
This does not affect everyone, but as I said sometimes not everything is obvious.
I still maintain that to avoid issues and alert for no reason those less aware of all implications, the “good” order for the servicing stacks to be installed is:

KB2533552
KB3020369
KB3177467
one at a time, although technically only the last one can be installed and most people would be fine.

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@PKCano
When installing in batches, please be aware of the issue which I discussed in another post in relation to
KB3000483 / KB3004375 / KB3031432
https://www.askwoody.com/2017/how-would-you-install-win7-from-scratch/comment-page-1/#comment-115336

I would think now that when installing in batches, which is the best from a resourcing utilisation perspective, the best order is to install starting from the bottom of the list, i.e. in their chronological order of release.
I used to do the opposite based on the idea that by taking advantage of hidden supersedence I might avoid installing few patches, but this approach is more likely to create problems.

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A clean install wipes all programs and data, which is fine if that’s the intention.

Not all OEM installs include a COA.

One of the laptops I refreshed last week was purchased as a Windows 8.1 system, downgraded to Windows 7.

It was shipped with Windows 7 installed, and recovery disks for Windows 8.1.

Using ShowKeyPlus confirmed the Product Key for each version.

http://showkeyplus.findmysoft.com/

I prefer a clean install as a last resort…days to get back up and running versus 6-8 hours with the upgrade-in-place repair install.

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It has always been offered as Important unticked to the Enterprise versions and as far as I know this patch has been largely discredited for few years and likely non-functional.
If Enterprise version (which works forever unlicensed, but with nag-screen and black background) does not get it even when unlicensed and less so when licensed/activated with KMS or MAK, then I think it is not required at all, at least not now.
The only other patch which was never offered to Enterprise version, but to any other version was the GWX update, now retired KB3035583. This patch was never offered, ticked or unticked, Optional or otherwise and was never offered to WSUS. But it could be installed manually, so technically was compatible, like KB971033.

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If IE10 works, I think IE11 would work with a certainty of 99%. But you would need to use as I said above, IE11 in Enterprise Mode Document Mode 10. It is not as complicated as it seems to configure.
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/itpro/internet-explorer/ie11-deploy-guide/what-is-enterprise-mode

Use the Group Policy to point to the xml file as instructed here
http://www.howtogeek.com/184634/how-to-enable-and-use-internet-explorer-11s-enterprise-mode/

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+R is a superior format. I have tried to use -R and had many failures. With +R, I have never had a failure. I am referring here to using DVDs for creating System Images.

I do this routinely for all my clients. It has been invaluable so many times. When a client PC needs a new hard drive, it saves about 6 hours of time and eliminates the need for an install disk or activation key. Not even necessary to go through an activation process. All the drivers are in place and everything is set up the way I want it to be.

I suspect one day, this will be the only way to restore Win7.

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What I meant was installing IE11 (updating from IE8).
I didn’t realize the rollup should be installed after IE11…I’m going to ‘test’ with that one now, later. 🙂

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FYI
I respect your knowledge.
Thank you for your input.

But the topic here is about how I would install Win7 from scratch NOT how would YOU do it.

It is not necessary for you to impose YOUR methodology on EVERYONE ELSE.

FYI is NOT “for your information”

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WSUS Offline now gives you the option to exclude superceded updates in the download phase, so the order is not an issue.

I let WSUS Offline install everything it downloaded, and had no issues on two different laptops.

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This guide includes KB3125574 AKA the convenience rollup which includes their telemetry client so it’s a non-starter for me.

Personally, I use the Simplix update pack.

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@ CT ……. Easier to use a re-writeable 16GB USB-stick to store the Win 7 SP1 system image, eg with Macrium Reflect Free at the default Medium compression.
……. A fresher system image can be re-done a few months later with the same USB-stick, ie over-writing the old image = no need to throw away DVDs = better for the environment.

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@ CT & ch ……. Seems, burning of files onto DVD+R is supported by nearly all DVD-burner-drives, compared to DVD-R. My Acer Aspire Win 7 SP1 laptop cannot burn on DVD-R, only DVD+R. My relative’s more expensive Dell Latitude Win 7 SP1 laptop can burn both DVD+R n DVD-R.
……. Also, avoid using DVD+RW = do not last with burning = waste of money.

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@Erik If you want to get Windows 8.1 then I would suggest getting one soon because if you wait until 2020 then Windows 8.1 will only have 3 years of support left at that time, and it might be hard to find a legit unactivated license because it went out of print in October.

Also keep in mind if you get a new computer in that time that has a Kaby Lake, Xen or whatever new CPUs AMD and Intel might come out with in that time won’t even support Windows 7 or 8.1. Skylake is the last one where you’ll get any support for 7 or 8.1. But it’s limited support.

I would get Windows 10 and dual boot with Ubuntu or Linux Mint. But your choice.

Question for Woody. If Windows 10 is the last version of Windows then what will they do after support ends in 2025? I suppose it’ll just be “Windows.” But who knows.

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@ Schnarph ……. To reduce Internet Data usage for updates/upgrades for 3 Windows cptrs in a home, u should create a Home-sharing Network for the 3 cptrs = updates/upgrades can be downloaded to only 1 cptr n then shared with or passed-onto the other 2 cptrs. Companies hv to do that for their network of tens to hundreds of Windows cptrs.
……. How.? Google is yr friend, …not M$(= yr enemy).
I hv no experience in networking bc my home has only 1 cptr = running Linux Mint 17.3 from an external USB hard drive on a Windows cptr.

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I haven’t a clue. I can’t even accurately predict what’ll happen to Win10 this year…

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The Win7 image creation program demands precision. It writes then reads back to verify. If it finds even one bit off, it will reject the disk.

I have found several DVD drives that seemed to work fine in most respects, but could not burn even a DVD+R with enough precision.

I use DVDs because they are just an insurance policy that I give my clients. Hopefully it will never be used. One thing I have to worry about is a client losing the set of DVDs. A USB stick is more likely to get misplaced or even misused.

I do not use this image technique for backup. It is simply an insurance policy that guarantees you can re-install a Win7 system to a point of usability.

Also, it is critical to eject the last disk properly. Do NOT press the button on the drive. Use the Eject command on a right-click on the DVD drive.

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@ Anonymous ……. Likely, M$’s/Nadella’s dream is to hv every Win 10 user paying subscriptions by 2025 or earlier, …like for Office 365 which does not hv any EOL = no need for M$ to worry about EOL for Win 10 after 2025.
……. Remember, there is the WindowsUpgradeSubscription Tool built-into Win 10, which is presently only used by M$ for SMB who wanna upgrade from Win 10 Pro to Win 10 Ent E3 or for anyone who wanna subscribe to Win 10 Ent E3 at US$7 per month per user/employee.

Hopefully, the dream will turn into a nightmare.

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Thank you.

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Only Windows 10 Enterprise LTSB and Server 2016 are obligated by the traditional support policy

all other editions follow Modern lifecycle Policy
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/30881/modern-lifecycle-policy
i.e. stay current, no specified end of support date

today, first Windows 10 RTM build started 60-days grace period for end of support
same thing will happen for version 1511 when the coming version 1704 is announced CBB

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Thanks again, but that’s one thing made easier with Win10, not so much for Win7. I prefer not to run a WSUS PC for a 3 PC network with such a tiny bandwidth allowance. This is why I use WSUSoffline, one download of patches is easily distributed to any number of computers similar to the legitimate WSUS with many advantages like USB install.

BTW, WSUSoffline takes care of Win8, 10, and all currently supported MSOffice. Every month after WSUSoffline updating, the only thing missing is the monthly MSRT update which is small and usually unimportant thanks to 3rd party anti-virus, firewall(s), etc.

Many thanks to those that have answered my original question about installing pre-servicepack1 Win7, intentionally or not. Those of us without broadband internet need all the help we can get. I’ve been using Linux dual boot for 10+ years, but too many programs and hardware just won’t run. MS is a monopoly I cannot do without, which is why I’m here.

I’m waiting for the next MS operating system. Win10 is supposedly due to expire in 2025 so hopefully there will be something else but I’m not holding my breath forever. Consumers demand new things. Win10 cannot be the last WinOS unless the world’s about to end.

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Actually, the 60-day clock will start ticking for 1511 when Microsoft ships official installation files for 1703 (or 1704).

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I think that would be the 4 month-clock, after which there is the grace period which is mentioned by @abbodi86

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@ Schnarph ……. Yes, u r correct about using WSUSOffline to save on Internet bandwidth when running 3 Win 7 cptrs at home bc of limited monthly Data Caps. Maybe this link is useful …
http://superuser.com/questions/380092/update-multiple-machines-at-home
.
.
I do not think there will be a next M$ OS after 2025. M$ intend Win 10 to be the last version of Windows by likely n eventually moving every Win 10 users onto subscriptions. This intention has already begun with Win 10 Ent E3 & E5 subscriptions on 02 Aug 2016, ie Version 1607 = Windows as a service.
……. Like EOL-less Office 365 subscriptions n Win 10 Ent E3 & E5 subscriptions, there will also be no EOL when all Win 10 Home & Pro are transitioned to subscriptions.
……. Similarly, there r no EOL for subscriptions to Cable TV(= for the set-top box or decoder), Internet service(= for the router), Cellphone service, Internet Cloud service, etc.
.
The key to success for M$ in this money-grab thru subscriptions/services is to first get most of the businesses onto Win 10 Ent E3 & E5 subscriptions bc Windows business users r M$’s major revenue earner(= not consumers).
……. Once this has been accomplished, M$ will impose subscriptions on all Win 10 Home & Pro users = consumers can take it or leave it n by then M$ will not really care.
.
Fyi, there is already a Windows UpgradeSubscription.exe Tool built into Win 10. M$ only hv to press the launch button n then deactivate any non-subscribed Win 10 cptr via a mandatory auto-update.

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Hi, thanks for your answer, I did some tests myself and installing only KB3177467 and then KB3172605, KB3179573 and cheking of updates it asks for KB976932 (SP1).
But installing KB233552 instead won’t offer that SP1 update.
So maybe KB3177467 doesn’t supersede 100% KB233552.

I didn’t test with KB3020369.

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One at a time means restarting after?

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@ CT ……. I hv found that the improper handling of DVD can also give problems, eg using too much force to remove the DVD from the DVD-drive-tray-locks/catch = warped or bent disc. One time, a Linux Install/Live DVD suddenly did not work until I unbent it.
……. The proper way to remove a DVD from the DVD-drive-tray or a DVD-box/holder is to use only one of yr fingernail or a flat plastic-like screwdriver to lift the DVD at an angle until the DVD is released from the tray-catch/locks(located at the middle of the tray).
…… Of course, a scratched Install DVD will also be useless.
.
Nowadays, it is very common for people to burn cptr OS onto USB-sticks n then do the OS install with success, esp for cptrs that do not hv DVD-burners/drives. It should be the same for the “burning”/storing of system images.
……. I hv run a few Live Linux OS from USB-sticks with no problems.

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SP1 update will be offered in all cases
and KB2533552 is 100% superseded
you can check it yourself, install KB3177467 first then launch KB2533552 msu, it won’t accept install

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I forgot to say that my tests was on a fresh Windows 7 SP1 installation. And that KB976932 (Windows 7 Service Pack 1) is about 3.9MB only.

Installing KB3177467 or KB3020369 and checking for updates, Windows Update offers that 3.9MB Service Pack 1 KB976932.

But installing KB2533552 won’t.

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Only if asked for reboot, although I would still say it is good practice to reboot.

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They supersede each other internally, at the component level, only that the metadata, the one which is taken in consideration by the Windows Update scanning engine has not been updated.
KB2533552 comes bundled with Service Pack 1 on Windows Update as it is a kind of mandatory postfix for Service Pack 1. When you download separately SP1 or get it slipstreamed in an image built by Microsoft, it does not have KB2533552, which was released later. This is why it is presented by WU as SP1.
Technically, it would be the same to install only KB3177467, but to avoid the WU nag about SP1, I say install KB2533552 first, as otherwise you would not be able to install it manually, being superseded.

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@abbodi86 is right 100%.
I say install KB2533552 only to avoid the nag. Otherwise you can “install” SP1 when offered by WU, with the same effect. Internally, it just flags it as installed, but it does not install anything if you have the later one.

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@abbodi86
I am not convinced that the behaviour of KB2533552/SP1 is the same for 32-bit and 64-bit versions. The behaviour described by me is related to Windows 7 64-bit and Windows 2008 R2 (which is 64-bit only) and shares most of the code with Windows 7.

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@messager7777777
You are right in principle, but @Canadian Tech uses DVDs for reliability and convenience and I would do the same for long term storage.
USB sticks are known to be a lot less reliable than burnt CDs/DVDs. And while scratches and other mechanical faults with CD/DVDs can be repaired in most cases to recover data, the chances to do the same with USB sticks are close to zero.
It is the same when storing long term data on HDDs compared to SSDs which are not meant to store data in the long term.

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What behaviour exactly?

when KB3177467 was first released as optional, it actually solved the KB2533552/SP1 bug for x64 and it’s no longer requested
but later when it superseded KB3020369 officially, same old behaviour returned

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@ ch100 ……. Yes, DVDs r best for long term data backups n system images but nowadays they r quite impractical, wasteful n bad for the environment. System images on DVDs are suitable for Canadian Tech’s Dummy clients, but may not be suitable for others.
……. Eg another poster “SH” stated that his Win 7 C:/Drive is about 48GB in size. If he uses DVDs to create his system image, he will need 11 DVDs. No doubt the Win 7 system image stored on the 11 DVDs will last for decades but in 3 years’ time he will most likely be using a new OS n needing to create a new system image. By then, Win 10 systems will be even more bloated.
.
A system image stored on a USB-stick may last only a few years maximum but this effect can be mitigated by refreshing the system image about once a year(eg by copying the system image to the cptr n then writing it back to the USB-stick) or by creating a newer system image yearly on the same USB-stick.
……. Pls see Reply #24 at …
http://reboot.pro/topic/13791-how-to-refresh-the-contents-of-a-flash-drive/
.
Similarly, for practical n environmental reasons, nowadays many people prefer to burn Windows OS iso or Linux Live OS iso onto reusable USB-sticks instead of non-reusable DVDs.

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Weird! Thanks, this is exactly what I was asking, because I don’t use or test on 32-bit. 🙂

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In the Catalog, the supersedence for KB2533552 is described differently for 32-bit (not superseded) and 64-bit (superseded by KB3020369 but not KB3177467). Probably a bug in the metadata published for the 3 Servicing Stack updates, while the story at the component level is obviously different.
This is why, until Microsoft fixes their metadata, I keep recommending to install all three in the order of their release, to avoid the WU nagging about SP1 missing.
Just check in the Catalog and search for KB2533552. Look at the dates of the revisions and you will see that only the Windows 7 64-bit was revised while all the other versions have not. It is a minor cosmetic issue, but Microsoft should fix it regardless, in particular because it scares people who don’t understand why SP1 is re-offered when they have it already.

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I see
will, it’s just another WU-update to ignore for me, there are around 35 one 😀

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The “dummy clients” you refer to make up at least 95% of all Windows 7 owners.

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Did somebody mention my middle name?

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This is in reference to the B Camp that I am completely not understanding. It couldn’t be more simpler is what likely could come as the answer if there is one, but how do I sort out what I need on a B Camp’s security update(s) on patch Tuesdays or what can i look for. Among my updates i have this week, has malicious tool update that I did install and then the monthly rollout security update that i didn’t install. I followed the link to Microsoft’s description of January security updates and did install one that to the best of my knowledge was just that as it said, it was security update only, however, within the same description it said it was the same as the rollout’s security update and that’s when i just lost it to the never-mind point.
I mean, there has to be a simple way to learn this stuff and all i want is to do just that to find what i need to keep my windows 7 going without all this snooping B S and pardon my saying so, but this surely been a whole lot of malarky since this whole Win. 10 issued. Ok, that’s my rant and my question if it can be answered. And by the way, i couldn’t email your Ask Woody because i don’t have gmail or yahoo, i have outlook, that incidentally lost every email i had saved since 2013 during the Hotmail/outlook conversion process(?). Funny how that happened New Years Eve 12/31/2016…with nothing of any reason why that came back from the Microsoft thread i input there.
Also, i wanted to post this same kind of question on a link to Eileen’s Lounge, but i couldn’t fulfill registration due to the question at the bottom where it’s in the same as proving not to be a robot. But anyway, thanks if i there’s clarity to my question of how to depict windows security updates for Windows 7 B Camp.

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You can email me any time, from any email program.

The best way to stay in Group B is to follow my instructions. They change slightly every month.

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Thanks. I better get started and read more. Sorry.

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@ CT ……. I think most of yr “Dummy” clients also would not know how to restore their system images from the 5 to 11 DVDs.
……. Maybe, yr “dummy” clients should just make do with a Win 7 Install/Recovery DVD, which is also a good back-up for system recovery but entails more work as compared to a restoration with a Win 7 System Image back-up on 11 DVDs.

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massager, restoration from a DVD backup is as simple as simple gets. True most of my clients could not do it, but if I’m not available, they can find some other technician to do it in a wink.

All you have to do is start the system on a System Repair disk (which is always part of the set), then choose restore from an image. The rest is pretty obvious and simple, and flawless.

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I just finished installing Win7x64 SP1 OEM on a cheap new computer system. During installation I skipped activation and skipped configuring Windows Update. Then I tweaked a few settings and configured Windows Update to only notify me for updates. Well, when I ran Windows Update for the first time, the first thing it did was install Hotfix for Microsoft Windows (KB2534111). Windows Update automatically restarted after installing the Hotfix. In less than three minutes, Windows Update reports that there are 207 important updates and 8 optional updates. Wow. That was fast!

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A question for you all. Is the hotfix for Windows Update (KB2534111) making Windows Update list all of the updates with the cryptic information about each update?

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Interesting!

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KB2534111 is built-in hotfix the refreshed installation media, it’s not installed by WU
WU close and restart to install its self update agent v7.6.7600.320

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@ GTP ……. Seems M$ hv finally hotfixed broken Windows Update for a clean installed Win 7 SP1.
.
In Aug 2015, WU began having problems with very slow scanning for updates(= a few hours) after a clean install of Win 7 SP1, which happened to coincide with the launch of Win 10 on 29 July 2015. In April 2016, the slow scanning turned to never-ending scanning or broken WU, which happened to coincide with M$ using dirty tactics to sneak Win 10 onto Win 7 cptrs.
……. So, it took M$ about 17 months long to fix this mess(of their own creation.?). Seems M$ hv given up on pushing Win 7 users onto Win 10.

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This is the same hotfix which was the first update to be installed when I built another Win7 system last March. I initially configured this earlier built system the same as the Win7 system I built yesterday. The interesting thing is that the system built several months ago took over an hour to find its first batch of updates, yet the system I built yesterday took less than three minutes.

The other interesting thing is that last March, updates were presented and downloaded in batches at a time. I installed the first batch of updates, and then Windows Update found more updates. This made it easy to make sure that updates were installed sequentially in batches, based on the date of their release. Yesterday’s new machine literally finds all updates all at once. Unless one is very careful, I imagine that there is the potential to encounter errors if an update tries to install which depends on a prior update being installed. This potentially might even lead to security holes in Win7.

Many have suspected that Microsoft deliberately slowed down Windows Update for Win7 machines after Windows 8 was released in order to push Win8 and then Win10. I too have suspected the same. Note that yesterday’s machine does NOT the patches installed which supposedly fix the slow Windows Update problems.

To sum it up, something ain’t Kosher with Microsoft.

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https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/2534111

This is a hotfix for SP1 required only if you encounter the specific issue described in the article. It is push to everyone anyway as it is like an add-on to SP1. Install it as is is offered.
This hotfix has nothing to do with the list of the updates that follows.

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That is a bit bleak, yet plausible. I don’t trust MS to stick to their word either, but…

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/13853/windows-lifecycle-fact-sheet

Besides, from a purely marketing/advertising standpoint, the name “Windows 10” will have to change eventually. If it was just “Windows” or “Windows 365”, maybe it would still sell in 5 years. Like any OS, a version number is preceded by the brand, and the number changes through the years or it is assumed to be old news. Hardware makes software obsolete, and vice versa.

Also, nobody is forced to buy Office 365 to stay up to date, unless Office 2016 was the last one dated by year. I cannot make an informed comment on enterprise editions, they come with unique and complicated caveats.

Another silver lining, linux GUI’s get better every year.

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@ Schnarph ……. Office 365 subscriptions was launched by M$ in 2011 n received lukewarm response from cptr users. Today, ie after 6 years on the market, Office 365 adoption is still below 10% = more than 90% still use licensed M$ Office 2007/2010/2013/2016. Hence, M$ could not get rid of all licensed m$ Office software n make Office 365 subscriptions mandatory = M$ would lose a lot of customers n money$$$$.

Similarly, if things do not turn out well for M$-Win 10 subscriptions by 2025/EOL or earlier, ie less than 10% adoption by cptr users, M$ will hv to continue selling licensed Win 10 Home, Pro & Ent.
……. If this were the case, in 2025/EOL, Win 10 users will hv to buy new licenses, similar to how most Win XP users bought new licenses for Win 7/8.1 in 2014/EOL.

Bc of the failure of Office 365 subscriptions, M$ hv been pulling out all the stops to try to ensure the success of Win 10 n Win 10 subscriptions, beginning with Win 10 Ent E3 & E5 subscriptions in Aug 2016, eg by sneaking the Win 10 upgrade onto Win 7/8.1 cptrs in April 2016, degrading Windows 7/8.1 Update from Aug 2015 onward, mandatory Win 10 auto-updates, mandatory cumulative updates, mandatory OS Version upgrades every 6-9 months, etc.
……. If Win 10 adoption reaches 50%, it won’t be a surprise if M$ starts imposing mandatory subscriptions for all Win 10 users n get rid of licensed Win 10.
.
Things r still very fluid n nothing has been set in stone yet. But it is likely M$-Nadella’s dream to achieve “Windows as a subscription service” for Win 10.

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messager, At least half my clients have Office 2003 installed, and don’t think there is any reason to change that. In fact, one of the advantages of the 2003 version is that the home (read cheaper) edition has Outlook in it.

Most of them don’t even know what Microsoft Office is. They think of Word, which is the only part of it they use. And since the advent of email, they use Word much less frequently.

Just trying to bring some reality of the street into this discussion.

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I think this type of user and even more those users who don’t have the advantage to have any form of ongoing support are the users for who Cloud solutions are suitable.
This means end-users having only a thin-client/dumb terminal available to them, which is only turned on or off.
The Cloud solutions require high speed/low latency connections though which are not available to everyone, or at least not yet.

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