Is Microsoft switching machines from “Download but let me choose” to “Install updates automatically”?

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I’ve heard from several people, in several different contexts, that Microsoft had switched their machines from “Download updates but let me choose whe
[See the full post at: Is Microsoft switching machines from “Download but let me choose” to “Install updates automatically”?]

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Woody
I thought you might want to hear about this. Today when using Skype I got the message that there was a new version of Skype so I updated to it.
After I used Skype I turned off my computer and went to do other things. When I turned the computer back on later I had a message from Microsoft that when I updated to the new version of Skype they change my homepage to MSN.
To me that a new low even for Microsoft.
I thought your readers would be interested in this and to warn them of lows that Microsoft has sunk.
Sam

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Woody,
Such interference from Microsoft would sadly no longer be surprising,
but so far this has NOT happened on my Win7 SP1 laptop, which always
runs with “Never check for updates” (I do monthly updates by hand).
The laptop is now completely up-to-date except for KB3035583, which I
never install. Is it conceivable that KB3035583 is the culprit here?
Bob.

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I have had my settings changed once. It was some time back, and happened after I had done some patching of Office 2010 Starter edition.

Some online research suggested that patching Office 2010 could sometimes result in WU settings being reset to default (automatic).

I now check regularly to see whether WU settings are still how I left them.

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Woody,

Is this issue unique to Win 10 PC’s or is it being reported from Win 7 or 8.1 PC users?

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The settings doesn’t appear in Win10. The reports I’ve seen – but still haven’t confirmed – are with both Win7 and 8.1 machines.

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It’s not at all clear – and it only happens on some machines.

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Microsoft is no doubt doing this on a limited basis or trial to test the level of acceptance (or outrage) before implementing to everyone.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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I’m not surprised in the least. Given Microsoft’s well deserved reputation for questionable (at best) ethics/tactics since the introduction of WinX, I can’t fathom why anyone with the slightest grain of computer management competence would have AU set to “download updates but let me choose whether to install them”. Have there been any reports of tampering when Win7/Win8.X AU is set to notify only?

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“Download updates but let me choose when to install them” really means download them in the background and install them the next time I reboot my computer if I don’t uncheck them. It’s been that way for a long time (see the exclamation mark in the shutdown button) and a lot of the people I take care of have misinterpreted it and got bitten.

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I turned on my computer this morning and got a warning from my GWX control panel that some settings related to windows 10 had been enabled. Should I turn off my WU setting entirely for the time being? I have it set for notify. Are there other settings on my computer I need to check? Also, I went back and looked through my installed updates and found KB2976978, which I’m pretty sure I had hidden in the past because it’s on a list of updates that I have made to not install. Is there anything I can do or is this #$%$%# OS upgrade to 10 inevitable? I have never been so outraged about a software company before in my life. I wish I could afford to buy a new computer, but this one still works fine (for the moment).

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Is there any real risk in disabling all MS updates, via the Services menu, while keeping anti-virus up-to-date and occasionally, re-enabling Services when the negative chatter about the updates dies down?

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This certainly happened to me back when the gwx campaign/invasion started and i’ve never had update set to anything other than letting me choose. I’m guessing it was because i did initially install 3035583 before knowing to avoid it. It was after i noticed the gwx folders and task scheduler entries that i saw to my horror it had been switched over. Then again it could have been due to installing an update to the windows update client around that time, i used to install those before learning they don’t seem to add anything useful just more telemetry tracking.

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I’m not sure, and would welcome others’ opinions….

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If’n I were you, I’d just make sure GWX Control Panel is running, and not sweat the changes. Setting WU to “Notify” is a good move. If you hide a patch and Microsoft re-issues it, the patch (at least in some cases) becomes “unhidden” for the new version of the patch.

Upgrading to Win10 is NOT inevitable. Keep GWX Control Panel running and you should be able to stay with Win7 (or 8.1) forever.

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True on all counts. You have to bypass the normal re-boot to avoid getting patched.

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One thing for sure. This will all end July 29, 2016. If it’s no longer free, they certainly won’t force it on people’s PCs if they can’t get their money for it!

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You recently wrote that you could not think of a single recent update, other than security updates, that was for the benefit of Windows 7 and 8 users.

If so, why not simply put updates on “Never,” check manually, and accept only the security updates?

With the push to get Windows 10 adopted, it seems most unlikely that M$ would offer us anything that made Win7 or 8 more functional.

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Call me a mad old soothsayer if you like, but I have this frightening vision that July 2016 won’t be the end of it – unless something drastic gives somewhere beforehand.

Today, for example, kb3035583 happily listed and stored months ago as a ‘hidden recommended’ update. By lunchtime it had vanished from the list. By the end of the afternoon it was back, all new looking and sparkly, this time as an ‘important new update’. I sent it packing to ‘hidden updates’ and as if by magic, it’s a ‘hidden recommended’ update again.

Just who are these people and perhaps more worryingly, what do they take us for?

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I had a computer last night that was a couple months behind on updates, and I did some testing on it to see whether any recent updates did in fact revert users’ Windows Update preferences. I had my computer set to “download and notify” before installing any updates, and after all updates were complete and several Windows restarts along the way, I was still at “download and notify” at the end. And GWX Control Panel only detected one settings reversion… and it turned out to be one that’s not a big deal. Read on…

There’s a GWX Control Panel feature called “Save Diagnostic Info” in the system menu (click the little icon in the upper-right of the program window, or right-click the Monitor Mode icon). If you use “Save Diagnostic Info” while GWX Control Panel is still telling you that settings are enabled, the report includes some information that indicates which specific settings are found (or missing) that might leave you vulnerable to Windows 10.

The most important field there is “UpgradeFlags.” In version 1.6, the report just gives you a single hexadecimal value that means something to me, but no one else. Version 1.7 (work in progress) actually tells you exactly what GWX Control Panel found in human-readable format.

Anyway, I just wanted to mention that if you see this (and only this):

Upgrade Flags=0x00000010

I’ve determined that this is actually not cause for concern, and in fact, version 1.7 will no longer warn you about that setting. Basically it’s a Windows Update setting that I had observed getting set during actual Windows 10 upgrade attempts… when it changes along with a few other things it IS a bad sign. But if it is the ONLY thing that changes (code 0x00000010), that appears to be safe, and you can ignore that alarm.

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I have 4 Windows7 macines at work that have set themselves to automatic updates. It doesn’t matter what option I choose, the following day they are back to auto updates. I have GWX control panel running on all machines. I we get updated to Windows 10, we are sol.

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Are they attached to a domain?

It’s possible a gpedit setting is pushing them back.

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Thanks for the update, Josh.

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In fact I’ve been mulling over that idea for some time now. The problem is that listing all of the KB numbers for security vs non-security updates would be a horrendous task – not just for me, but for readers who want to install only security updates.

In the case of updates to Windows 10, there’s no way I know to separate the security from the non-security updates.

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@ Teresa

Ouch! That warning is not good! But it’s not clear what has happened to your system…..

*I went back and looked through my installed updates and found KB2976978, which I’m pretty sure I had hidden in the past because it’s on a list of updates that I have made to not install.* I believe that KB is for Win 8.0/8.1. It has been released and re-released a number of times apparently for the last year or so ( see here: http://www.infoworld.com/article/2930713/microsoft-windows/microsoft-re-re-releases-kb-2952664-kb-2976978-and-kb-2977759.html ). It has been an unchecked optional update, and an important checked update at various times. When is the install date in your update history for that KB?

*got a warning from my GWX control panel that some settings related to windows 10 had been enabled.* What setting(s) for GWX had changed in GWX Control Panel? Josh Mayfield, the developer of GWX Control Panel might want to hear from you ( http://blog.ultimateoutsider.com/2015/08/using-gwx-stopper-to-permanently-remove.html ).

*Should I turn off my WU setting entirely for the time being? I have it set for notify.* Double check–is it *notify only* and not “Download updates but let me choose when to install them.” The former should not download or install anything unless you tell Windows Update to do so. The latter will download and then install updates selected the next time you re-boot your system.

* I wish I could afford to buy a new computer,*–jumping from the frying pan into the fire! A new computer will probably have Win10–and you can not control updates at all!

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@ Woody

Just to be clear–GWX Control Panel, even if it’s the latest version 1.6.0.1 that continuously monitors for GWX changes, will not automatically change the settings back to a safe setting. One must manually reset any settings that you wish to change.

So just having GWX Control Panel *running* is not sufficient!

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I no longer trust any of the Microsoft updates, security or otherwise.

If more users follow the approach of installing only security updates, how long will it be before they start sneaking in the unwanted crap with the security updates? You certainly can’t rely on descriptions. I find myself in the undesirable position of having to decide between possibly jiggered updates, which may contain an unwelcome surprise, or no updates, which leaves my computer at greater risk. Thanks, Microsoft!

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Unless all of the telemetry, keylogging and advertising ID tracking of user data were to magically disappear on July 29, 2016, why would Microsoft stop pushing Windows 10? The mechanisms would still be in place to generate the revenue. You pay for it, and then you continue to pay for it. Win-win for Microsoft!

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I have done a clean install of Windows 10 on an old HP 2000. The first thing I do with Windows 10 is disable the Windows Update Service to block the forced updates. When an update is released, I watch my favorite tech sites for a few weeks for any information about problems or MS’s underhanded tactics. If all seems clear, I’ll turn it back on and let 10 update. So far I have had no problems with this approach except that the store app won’t install apps with it turned off. I just turn it on long enough to install the app and then turn it right back off again.

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The other problem is that Microsoft are now releasing so little information about the updates that it’s often impossible to tell what they do and therefore whether they’re security updates or not. They’ve also moved away from having separate patching days each month for security and non-security updates.

Of course, I wouldn’t suggest for a moment that Microsoft would disguise a nagware update as a critical security update…

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Microsoft lists security patches separately from non-security but, as you say, without some description, it’s very hard to make an independent determination.

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Point well taken. As that, in my opinion, is how GWX Control Panel shoudl work.

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Aren’t the security updates listed first when you download the list of available updates?

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I don’t trust Microsoft anymore either. And with their latest push to force Win10 on us, and the expected even bigger push next year, it would not surprise me in the least if they hid a Win10 “upgrade” in a security patch (scare quotes on purpose – I do not consider Win10 an upgrade).

Like some here, I have automatic updates turned off and check them manually, only installing critical security patches. But this is really getting old. Win7 is supposed to be supported until 2020, so Microsoft needs to simply leave me alone. It’s personal now, I won’t load Win10 on a perfectly functional machine because Microsoft says so.

Fortunately for me, I’ve discovered Linux Mint and set my machines (2 of them) to dual boot with Linux/Win7. Certainly by 2020, and perhaps before then, I should have replacements for all my Windows programs (or build them, I’m a programmer) and be off Windows pretty much for good.

And yes, other Linux users, I know about Wine, but the software I need Windows for doesn’t run under it. I’ve tried. Fortunately I’m not a gamer who needs Windows for that.

It’s going to get to the point where, when I boot to Windows to run something there, that I unplug my cable modem to avoid the Win10 push until I can boot back to Linux. Thanks a lot, Microsoft.

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Generally, yes, although there may be exceptions.

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My settings were switched when installing Windows Live Mail using Windows Essentials 2012 web installer. Running Windows 7 SP1 32-bit.

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Woody… per your advice in another thread I upgraded Windows Live Mail from 2009 to 2012 and the upgrade itself went fine but produced some other very unwelcomed results… read on.

Although the upgrade didn’t request a restart I’ve always been in the habit of restarting after any upgrade so I did. I went back to Windows update to manually check for updates to see if KB3093594 was now available and saw that my Windows Update setting was changed from NEVER check for updates to download and install them automatically (I wasn’t planning to install the patch by the way, I just wanted to see if the upgrade to 2012 made the patch available now).

I have NEVER had Windows Update set to anything other than never check for updates in the 5 years I’ve owned this system and I’ve always checked & installed manually every month!

I also disabled the Windows Update Service before restarting the computer as I always have after updating every month and lo & behold that Service was now enabled and set to Automatic/Delayed.

I have two other systems that still have WLM 2009 on them but upgrading them isn’t going to happen now unless it stops functioning. If it does stop functioning at least I know what to expect after upgrading… and having one upgraded to 2012 now I can verify that 2009 is actually the culprit before dealing with all this M$ crap two more times!

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“But this is really getting old.”
I have felt this way for months now. I would welcome an alternative that did not take the time and effort required to avoid Windows 10.
This is getting to feel like an endless game of Whac-A-Mole.

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I too run Windows 7. My update options have been changed to automatic for months. I use to change it back, but it kept changing the setting to auto. I finally said to hell with it and let it do its’ thing. I have had several problems lately with bad auto downloads (email screw up, and now my Internet Explore 9 has just disappeared and I get a blank page), but MS seems to not care.

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You’re going to have a lot of problem with IE 9 in early January. You need to upgrade to IE 11. I should write a column about that, eh?

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That’s interesting, and I bet it’s one of the main causes of Windows Update switching over to the dark side. (Sorry.) Once you’ve flipped the settings back to what you want, does WLM 2012 change them again?

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I too will have to upgrade to IE11 before 12th January, as well as probably being best advised to upgrade from WLM 2011.

The latter I can get around by installing a third party email client (when I can work out which one!) but I am concerned as to what exactly I will be letting myself in for with the IE upgrade in terms of “unintended consequences”.

Do you have any specific problems in mind?

An article on all of this would certainly be appropriate and very much appreciated!

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Yes Please Woody – I for one would appreciate yours and others thoughts of the necessity or otherwise of upgrading to IE 11 …. and running the risk of trashing my computers presently running IE9/IE10 vs better security. Recent upgrades have not be particularly reassuring ….

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No it hasn’t (so far), and no apologies necessary Woody. I’m beyond confident you had no idea anything like this was in store when you recommended the upgrade.

I use WLM only for one Hotmail account and I’ve checked it several times since and the Windows Update Service is still disabled and my update settings have remained at never check for updates.

So far anyhow, if something changes I’ll update this post.

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Here’s the basics – although I’d re-write it for clarity:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/WindowsForBusiness/End-of-IE-support

As of Jan. 12 – less than a month from now – if you’re running Win7 or 8.1, IE will no longer get security patches unless you’re running IE 11. Considering older versions of IE are security disasters waiting to happen, that effectively means that everybody needs to upgrade to IE 11. (Vista’s a lost cause because it’s going off support soon anyway.)

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Actually, IE 11 upgrades at this point are generally relatively painless.

That said, I would NEVER recommend that people use IE. It’s so bad Microsoft has abandoned it.

For mail? I use Gmail, have for years, and it works great.

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As far as I know you can’t install a version of IE on Vista above IE-9. But like you said it doesn’t much matter because Vista support is ending in January too.

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Thanks Woody. I should have said that I don’t really use IE, I use Chrome, but see the need to keep IE upgraded as it is embedded in Windows and gets relied on “behind the scenes”. I only use it very rarely if I have a problem with Chrome or for a hardly used second hotmail account so I don’t have to switch logins.

I don’t have a Gmail account although my ISP used Google for their webmail and it was terrible, I think they’ve withdrawn from the arrangement now. However, I don’t like the ISP’s webmail anyway and prefer a separate email client. I’m thinking of using Thunderbird for now.

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“My settings were switched when installing Windows Live Mail using Windows Essentials 2012 web installer. Running Windows 7 SP1 32-bit.”
Same here, two times, after installing and rebooting machine and after starting program and accepting terms.

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I haven’t used Skype in about 5 years, and neither has an older relative of mine whose computer/digital safety I try to keep up to date for her.
The other week I changed all her account passwords because she’s been a victim of a few of the big data thefts/leaks of the past year, and as a part of that process I decided to change her old Skype password and to check that the account has as little personal information on her as possible in it.
I logged in to Skype, changed her password, and the next thing I knew, I got a message box saying that her Skype account had been merged with her Outlook account, and both accounts had been populated with the personal details about her that heretofore had only been on one or the other account. Suddenly both accounts had her home phone number, address, etc.
Unhelpfully, I was required to click around quite a bit in Skype to find out how to unlink the 2 accounts, and there was a stark warning that you are ever allowed to do this once (or maybe twice) _in your entire life_,
or some guff like that,
so they urged you to consider carefully asking them to de-link those 2 kinds of Microsoft account.
I think that they said that it was also a process that would take them days/weeks to accomplish, because they’d have to get someone on their side to do it manually, or something like that.
While I had not volunteered to them that she had accounts with both entities, I realized that maybe Microsoft had grabbed her Outlook account and had merged it with her old Skype account, without any warning from them and without asking me for permission, because I happened to be logged into her Outlook email (within a different IE11 “private browsing” window on the computer) at the time that I logged into the Skype account.
I guess they spied across Internet Explorer and made an assumption that it was the very same person who was simultaneously logged into both programs on that computer? (Even if her user name on Skype and Outlook were exactly the same, which I don’t think it is because I do try to vary that across entities, the user passwords for the 2 accounts were definitely different — I make her a unique password for every website/company. Plus, her contact email address listed in her Skype account has always been a Yahoo email address, not an Outlook email address.)
It was certainly not my intention for Microsoft to suck up the information held on her in that entirely-separate Outlook email account and bundle it together with the personal information, call history, call content, payment methods, contact details, etc. that they have had stored within her disused Skype account.
I find this kind of corporate behavior over-reaching, and chilling.

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@Woody,
“Vista’s a lost cause because it’s going off support soon anyway.”

@Ed,
“But like you said it doesn’t much matter because Vista support is ending in January too.”

The “Windows lifecycle fact sheet” shows the end of support for Vista with Service Pack 2 as April 11, 2017.

http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/lifecycle

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle?C2=11732

While I wouldn’t use it, Internet Explorer 9 in Windows Vista will still receive technical support and security updates after January 12, 2016.

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/lifecycle#gp/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer

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You’re absolutely right, and I stand corrected. Must be the tide of yule clouding my brain.

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Upgrade to IE11 gets you KB3035583 (GWX app) and KB2952664 (Compatibility update for upgrading Windows 7 – This update helps Microsoft make improvements to the current operating system
in order to ease the upgrade experience to the latest version of Windows).

I have updated two computers in as many days from IE10 to IE11 because shortly anything less that IE11 won’t be supported with security updates. (It’s still a liability on your computer even if you are not using it). It’s no longer offered through Windows Update. The Update, whether downloaded directly from MS or Filehippo (or the like) carries with it two unwanted updates: KB3035583 and KB2952664.

If you do this update, you will be able to uninstall KB3035583 only you turn off the GWX app with GWX Control Panel first. If you try to uninstall KB2952664, it will disappear from the installed updates, but it will reinstall itself each time you uninstall/reboot the computer even if you hide it from the important updates list.

Maybe the upgrade for Windows Live Mail to 2012 also carries this baggage. Check your installed updates if you have done that upgrade. The install will have been done the same day.

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@PKCano, @Woody

“”If you do this update, you will be able to uninstall KB3035583 only you turn off the GWX app with GWX Control Panel first. If you try to uninstall KB2952664, it will disappear from the installed updates, but it will reinstall itself each time you uninstall/reboot the computer even if you hide it from the important updates list.””

Can you clarify, please?
Are you saying that when we update to IE11 to leave GWX Control Panel running so that it will stop KB3035583 & KB2952664 from installing? Or, after installing IE11 we have to manually uninstall those patches?

Thanks.

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I updated one of my three non-IE11 machines last night from IE10.0.9200 using the IE11-Windows6.1-x64-en-us.exe that I downloaded from MS on Dec 9, file size 54,605KB.

GWX Control Panel was active and running in Monitor Mode. Before installing IE11, I ensured that Windows Update was set to Never Check just in case the install forced it to change. Immediately following the install’s required restart, I checked to make sure my Win Update setting was not changed (it was not); started IE and made sure the Help About screen had not changed the Automatic Update setting (it remained set to NOT update). Ran Win Update to see what IE 11 updates were available; WinUpd scan took about a half hour to complete. KB3035583 was listed in Optional updates withOUT a check (I Hid it once again); there was no mention of KB2952664 in either Optional or Important. The Cumulative IE update was dated 12/8/15 and I decided to leave it alone until Woody gives the go-ahead later this month.

Right after reading PKCano’s post, I went and checked the Update History on that PC and there is no mention of any Win Updates at all installed last night and, more specifically, KB2952664 is not listed.

Whew! Guess I dodged THAT bullet.

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I was not running GWX Control Panel when I did the IE11 upgrades. (GWXCP doesn’t stop updates anyway, it only warns) Updates were set to “Let me choose what to download and install” so downloading was supposedly not automatic. I downloaded the IE11-Windows6.1-x64-en-us.exe from the MS site the first time, and the x86 version from Filehippo for the second installation (trying to avoid the additional patches). Each time the installation went through a “downloading updates” phase before it finished. Maybe setting “Never check for updates” in Win Update would have prevented the two patches from being included. At any rate, both were hidden but downloaded/installed anyway.

If you have KB2952664 previously installed, it may not show reinstalled initially with the IE11 upgrade. On one of the PC’s I had uninstalled it prior to the upgrade to IE11, searched for updates, and hidden it. On the other I uninstalled it after the upgrade. In both cases it reinstalled itself after the reboot – never showing up in the list of updates and in spite of being hidden. Repeated uninstalls/reboots resulted in its reinstallation without apparent pass through the install list or download – like it never left the install queue.

As for KB3035583, it was installed in both cases. I had previously been able to just uninstall it, but this time I had to disable it with GWXCP before it would uninstall and stay gone.

Hope this helps explain. If there are more questions I will check back here periodically.

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Whoa! Found one of my Win7 machines set to Automatic updates this morning. I know I would NEVER do that.

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@Owburp

Thanks for the recap…Glad it went well for you. Could you provide the link that you used to find and download IE11 directly from MS?

I’m a little hesitant to install IE11 from Windows Update unless someone can share a positive experience using that method.

Thanks.

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Any idea what caused it?

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Excellent sleuthing! Who woulda thought….

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No clue. Checked for recent installed updates expecting to see something but nothing since 12/8.
These updates are hidden: 2952664, 2990214, 3035583, 3050265, 3065987, 3068708, 3075249, 3075851, 3080149, 3083324, 3083710, 3102810, 2112343. I have been hiding since June or so. Don’t think any of them have ever been installed.
However, this is one of my most used Win7 machines, so it is on and connected for the longest amount of time.

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@Woody
I have been reading the threads about WLM, though I don’t use it. As suggested in my email to you, maybe MS is downloading their poison along with the unrelated downloads/upgrades from their site. In the case of IE and WML, they are no longer offered through Win Update, so you don’t have much choice at this point when the upgrades are necessary.

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@louis
support.microsoft.com
type “Internet Explorer 11” in the search.
(under the big display for Win10)

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Yeah, I didn’t want to use the Win Update procedure to update IE11 either.

http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/Internet-Explorer-11-for-Windows-7-details.aspx

But just in case I’m not allowed to provide URLs here, just do a DuckDuckGo search (or Google if you prefer) on “internet explorer 11” and the first MicroSoft link will probably be the one you want.

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One of the nice side-effects of manually approving every post on AskWoody is that I get to include URLs that seem germane.

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It’s certainly a troubling sign. Obvious, now, with IE 11. Not so sure about the WLM 2012 patch.

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@PKCano, @owburp,

Thanks for the assistance guys. I’ll let you know how everything goes one I get an opportunity to update. Appreciate your advice/help.
And of course, Thanks to @Woody as well for all he does for us MS hostages…

Happy Holidays.

louis

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That wouldn’t happen to be one of the computers you recently updated to IE11 was it? If so, start IE and go to Help / About IE and see if there is a check mark in Automatically update. Same thing if you recently updated (or allowed Win Update to update) Skype.

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Not one just updated – IE11 had been on this computer for a long time. Don’t have Skype. Win Update’s been on manual forever (till this). I changed it back and it has not changed again.

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@Woody
More on the KB2952664/3035538 thing:
Did a Win7 today. Had IE11 since 2013, so no upgrade there. Win Update on manual. Owner had not done the Nov and Dec updates. KB2952664 and KB3035583 had been installed with the Oct updates 10/15. I was able to uninstall 3035583 without GWXCP help. I uninstalled 2952664 (as well as patches changing Update Client back through Aug, and 3 telemetry patches 149, 249, 708). Searched for updates several times, hid all I had uninstalled, and installed the Nov and Dec remaining patches. KB2952664 did NOT reinstall itself, did NOT show back up in the important updates, and remained in the hidden ones.

Could be different versions of KB2952664 and 3035583 coming down with the IE11 upgrade now.

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I have always had my system set up to let me control the downloads. For months the setting is changed to automatic. Whenever I change it back, MS changes it to automatic. I am the only person using my machine so this must be a MS change.

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