Microsoft Security Essentials: How good is it?

Topic

New Reply

I was recently back in WashDC where I visited a MicroCenter store. At the help desk, I causally inquired about anti-virus programs and was handed a sheet of paper that listed some antivirus programs in a sort of top ten format. What surprised me was that Security Essentials was listed at the bottom??

Something like 3 years ago I had a professional install a new hard drive into my old XP desktop machine as a precautionary operation,…being my machine was an aging one. I had been running AVG for years, first the free version, then the paid subscription. I developed this feeling that the ‘advanced AVG’ was slowing up my computer by just checking and double checking everything too much. My professional installer said that this might be entirely possible.

He suggested that I just install Security Essentials, a free program, and a very good one in his opinion. I (we) did install that antivirus program and it worked perfect for me for at least 3 years (maybe more, I’ve forgotten).

So I was surprised to find it rated at the bottom of a list of good antivirus software? ANY OPINIONS ??

PS: I found this quote on an older subject thread:

I’m satisfied with what Microsoft said in their blog posting.

The only thing that creeped me out a bit was “When we explicitly looked for these files, we could not find them on our customers’ machines.” In other words, they are looking on their customers’ machines!

In my opinion, Fred Langa did the best real-world test of anyone — he put only MSE on his laptop, and he then went all over the place, connecting everywhere on public wifis. He regularly scanned his laptop with other AV software. After six months of that, he had not been infected once with any malware.

The only concern I would have about Fred’s results is, since he is an IT pro, he certainly has unconscious habits which lead to safer computing than a non-IT person would; this may have skewed his results without him realizing it.

Reply | Quote

Replies

See http://www.av-comparatives.org/dynamic-tests/ for independent real world test results. Note the Microsoft finished last out of 23 vendors.

Jerry

Reply | Quote

MS now advise that as MSE only gives basic protection that you should look at other 3rd party AV programs.

http://www.howtogeek.com/173291/goodbye-microsoft-security-essentials-microsoft-now-recommends-you-use-a-third-party-antivirus/

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/replace-microsoft-security-essentials-proper-antivirus/

Reply | Quote

MS now advise that as MSE only gives basic protection that you should look at other 3rd party AV programs.

… except that she never actually said that.

Reply | Quote

… except that she never actually said that.

Alright then – allegedly 😀 but it’s still way down in the ratings and the only time I would recommend it would be for elimination purposes against another 3rd party installed AV program.

I agree some people have used it without any infection problems but that could be because of safe browsing practices.

Reply | Quote

MS now advise that as MSE only gives basic protection that you should look at other 3rd party AV programs.

http://www.howtogeek.com/173291/goodbye-microsoft-security-essentials-microsoft-now-recommends-you-use-a-third-party-antivirus/

Okay I just finished reading that link. interesting, sounds like it parallels my experiences in that it was fairly highly recommended back a few years ago, but has declined in ratings fairly significant.

They seem to like Avast. That was one that came highly recommended by a local young guy who does a fair amount of computer repair. However I have also heard someone say it comes with LOTS of advertisements (pop-ups?)

Reply | Quote

MS now advise that as MSE only gives basic protection that you should look at other 3rd party AV programs.

http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/replace-microsoft-security-essentials-proper-antivirus/

So now I am reading that second link you provided, and right off the bat this quote hit me….so true. It is a wonder that that company went along so long before trying to provide protection for their own products !!

Microsoft threw its hat in the anti-virus arena in 2009 with Microsoft Security Essentials (MSE), a tool that runs on Windows XP, 7 and 8. The move received early praise, as it seemed strange that the company had gone so long without providing even the most basic anti-virus protection, and early tests showed MSE to be nearly as effective as paid competitors.

The idea that malware developers might be taking MSE into account when creating a new Trojan or virus is plausible, but also hard to prove one way or the other.

I wonder if this could be the reason I got infected with this latest virus Win32 Chroject.D!dll ….that I brought up in another subject thread titled by that virus’ name.

Reply | Quote

I’ve been using Microsoft Security Essentials/Windows Defender for as long as they have been provided by MS. Within the last year, I’ve also added Malwarebytes Pro to my defenses. I’ve had sites flagged/blocked by one or the other from time to time, but I’ve had no other issues. I have Windows Defender setup through Task Scheduler to check for definition updates hourly, perform a daily quick scan and weekly full scan. Malwarebytes is scheduled to scan daily.

In addition, I practice safe surfing. I don’t use torrents for any reason at any time. I don’t open email attachments unless I am specifically expecting them. I download utilities from only trusted sites (CNET, MajorGeeks, and the like). I make drive images regularly, and safeguard my data with multiple copies on separate hard drives.

I’m not really concerned about how MSE/Windows Defender are rated, because my real world experience tells me they’re good enough for me. They have a small footprint and don’t put any noticeable drag on performance.

YMMV

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

I’ve been using Microsoft Security Essentials/Windows Defender for as long as they have been provided by MS.

In addition, I practice safe surfing. I don’t use torrents for any reason at any time.

What is the difference between Essentials and Defender?

What is Torrents?

Reply | Quote

What is the difference between Essentials and Defender?[/quote]
Basically, Windows Defender is Microsoft Security Essentials for Windows 8. MSE runs on Windows XP and Windows 7.

What is Torrents?

Torrent is a file sharing technology that allows the file to be split into numerous pieces hosted on a number of servers. When one uses a torrent client to download a file, the torrent technology gathers the various bits from all over and pieces them back together. This allows for faster downloads of large files, like pirated videos, pirated music, pirated OS’s, and a few genuine “free” large files. Torrent networks are notorious for packing malware into bits of popular files. The source/author of the original file(s) has no control over the server network, which are members of the torrent community, which itself is not policed.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Basically, Windows Defender is Microsoft Security Essentials for Windows 8. MSE runs on Windows XP and Windows 7.

Not intending to confuse the matter, but there is a “Windows Defender” included in Windows 7, but IIRC, it is an antimalware tool and not a full antivirus. If you have installed MSE or other antivirus program, I think it will be turned off when the other program is installed and then turned on when that program is uninstall. That is was I saw when installing and uninstalling MSE before installing Avast.

Reply | Quote

Not intending to confuse the matter, but there is a “Windows Defender” included in Windows 7, but IIRC, it is an antimalware tool and not a full antivirus. If you have installed MSE or other antivirus program, I think it will be turned off when the other program is installed and then turned on when that program is uninstall. That is was I saw when installing and uninstalling MSE before installing Avast.

Yes, the Windows Defender included in Windows 7 is a tool to protect against malware and PUPs, not an AV too. MSE in Windows 7 is basically Windows Defender with AV extensions, so it disables Windows Defender and takes over its functions.

38924-Windows-Defender 38925-MSE

Trying to turn on Windows Defender with MSE installed will just timeout; it won’t turn on.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Running 2 Anti Virus programs on one computer?

As it appears, even MS may be hinting that SE be run ‘in addition’ to another AV. But doesn’t this cause conflicts on one’s computer?

Reply | Quote

Running 2 Anti Virus programs on one computer?

As it appears, even MS may be hinting that SE be run ‘in addition’ to another AV. But doesn’t this cause conflicts on one’s computer?

MSE/Defender and Malwarebytes don’t conflict.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

beiland, MSE for Windows 7 and prior. Windows 8’s Windows Defender is MSE renamed, refaced. I have run MSE alongside another AV program; I simply turned off MSE’s Real Time Protection and scheduled scans that both AV programs would run.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

beiland, MSE for Windows 7 and prior. Windows 8’s Windows Defender is MSE renamed, refaced. I have run MSE alongside another AV program; I simply turned off MSE’s Real Time Protection and scheduled scans that both AV programs would run.

My Acer laptop came with Win7 installed. So why does it have a ‘Windows Defender’ listed in the control panel. I just discovered this the other day and turned it on, hoping that would help protect me from a virus attack. BUT I already was running Security Essentials. If they are the same, why didn’t it notify me I was already running it??

Reply | Quote

My Acer laptop came with Win7 installed. So why does it have a ‘Windows Defender’ listed in the control panel. I just discovered this the other day and turned it on, hoping that would help protect me from a virus attack. BUT I already was running Security Essentials. If they are the same, why didn’t it notify me I was already running it??

All part of the MS culture of confusing naming. Windows 7 has a service called Defender which is a very basic AV program that it turns on if it does not detect any other AV program on the computer to provide some very simple protection. You can think of MS Security Essentials as a souped up version of this, which was originally very good, but now seems to perform more in line with its name, and give you something between Defender and a third party program. With Windows 8 they seem to have retained the Defender name and purpose, but increased the functionality and made it more obvious.
AV protection is always hard for professionals to advise on, as they tend to have good habits and be ultra cautious, since spreading malware onto a clients machine from your own is professional suicide! Despite years of exposure, I still can’t predict and protect against all the strange things people will do, and that is where most of the infections come from (e.g. a recent example, “there was a zip file in the email, and when I tried to open it a strange box came up but it didn’t open so I forwarded it to the rest of the office to see if they could open it”).

Reply | Quote

My Acer laptop came with Win7 installed. So why does it have a ‘Windows Defender’ listed in the control panel. I just discovered this the other day and turned it on, hoping that would help protect me from a virus attack. BUT I already was running Security Essentials. If they are the same, why didn’t it notify me I was already running it??

They are NOT The same. Windows Defender in Win7 and Vista was MS’s first attempt at spyware blocking. MSE is a classic anti virus program; if you install/activate MSE it turns off Defender automatically.

Reply | Quote

OP, maybe you want to read this.
Only my $0.02 though.

Reply | Quote

Don’t overlook the safe browsing, downloading (and installing) and email use habits. Relying on any anti-virus is like relying on the safest-rated car in the world to prevent you from getting into an accident.

Reply | Quote

Don’t overlook the safe browsing, downloading (and installing) and email use habits. Relying on any anti-virus is like relying on the safest-rated car in the world to prevent you from getting into an accident.

I have slowly learned how to practice safe browsing,…but I am an inquisitive person about many scientific subjects, and boating subjects (my website: http://www.RunningTideYachts.com), and model RR subjects,…and a little porn photos sometimes.
So I do a considerable amount of web surfing,….just want a good AV program that is not going to ‘overdo it’ as my once paid subscription to AVG did.

Reply | Quote

bieland, Earlier,I left out a couple of things. Windows 8’s Windows Defender is MSE renamed, refaced. In Windows 7, Windows Defender is part & parcel, within, Windows 7. MSE, a separate distinct program, must be downloaded and installed ’cause [unlike the other program WD] it is not part & parcel of Windows 7. You can run both WD & MSE within Windows 7. I have done in the past, I’m doing it now — not Real Live Protection, rather, as scheduled scans during the week.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

bieland, Earlier,I left out a couple of things. Windows 8’s Windows Defender is MSE renamed, refaced. In Windows 7, Windows Defender is part & parcel, within, Windows 7. MSE, a separate distinct program, must be downloaded and installed ’cause [unlike the other program WD] it is not part & parcel of Windows 7. You can run both WD & MSE within Windows 7. I have done in the past, I’m doing it now — not Real Live Protection, rather, as scheduled scans during the week.

Microsoft (and others) sure have a way of naming things, and combining them, that can get quite confusing to the casual computer user,…..I mean like how many things are named ‘explorer’ ??

Is the casual computer user suppose to know this subtle difference between what ‘Defender’ is in Win 7, verses Win 8 ??

As was mentioned before, its ironic that Microsoft waited for so long to even provide a decent anti-virus program for their own product,…especially considering how often their product was (is) attacked.
And now they are even letting the public down by not ‘maintaining’ it in a high order. Shame on them!

Reply | Quote

Microsoft (and others) sure have a way of naming things, and combining them, that can get quite confusing to the casual computer user,…..I mean like how many things are named ‘explorer’ ??

Is the casual computer user suppose to know this subtle difference between what ‘Defender’ is in Win 7, verses Win 8 ??

As was mentioned before, its ironic that Microsoft waited for so long to even provide a decent anti-virus program for their own product,…especially considering how often their product was (is) attacked.
And now they are even letting the public down by not ‘maintaining’ it in a high order. Shame on them!

It’s possible that the large number of anti-trust lawsuits against Microsoft made them skittish about including AV software in Windows. They were being sued for integrating IE in the OS, including AV software in the OS might have been asking for trouble at the time.

Reply | Quote

As was mentioned before, its ironic that Microsoft waited for so long to even provide a decent anti-virus program for their own product

There’s always issues with licensing/non-licensing of products to be included with Windows. As I recall, back in early ’90s there was a problem with file compression MS-DOS 6.2 and Microsoft had to issue MS-DOS 6.21 which left that out. Same with some current restrictions in European versions and media players.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

Reply | Quote

The dirty secret is no anti-virus will protect you good enough. I will continue to say, until I’m blue in the face, that the only way to come close to perfect protection is through virtualization. Typing this now in an XP VM. I know; XP. Still, it’s safer then exposing the Host to the wilds of browsing and I regularly recover from a golden set point which literally takes seconds for me to do (wish Windows recovery could be as fast). 🙂

Reply | Quote

Or to put it another way, how many folks who’ve gotten a virus had a firewall and anti-virus? The overwhelming majority, I have to think. It is nearly infinitely more important to have a reliable browser, don’t download and install anything without exquisitely acute inspection, and don’t open email attachments. I haven’t used any anti-virus actively for 7 years now and I’m still using XP Untamed (not virtual)! Definitions and heuristics are but the palest of shadows compared to what the user is capable of.

Reply | Quote

There seems to be so much confusion over how good Security Essentials is – The name is appropriate, it provides essential protection, but no bells and whistles. Why does it always do so badly in comparisons then? The reason is that it is NOT like the other anti-virus products. The others try to protect your computer from everything, including viruses not seen in the wild for a decade. It allows them to claim their products stop such-and-such a percentage of viruses. But checking for all of those viruses puts a fairly heavy load on your computer and software. Windows is used sometimes on quite slow computers, where this would slow them down too much. So Microsoft could not make software that just checked for everything that has ever been written, instead they used their unique position of writing the operating system, to be aware of what malware is currently affecting their software and in what parts of the world. Essentials ONLY checks for viruses that are CURRENTLY affecting computers worldwide, or in your region.

That is why Essentials does so badly in comparisons, it does not check for every virus that has ever been written, it just checks for what is currently affecting computers. That is why it is so light on your system, but still offers pretty good protection. You might just get an infection if you are one of the very unlucky early ones, but then that is true to some extent of all antivirus programs. I’ve had no problems on Win 7 as I install all updates early on (but have had some problems thanks to Microsoft releasing really borked updates). I run malwarebytes monthly as a double-check and if I have visited a website that has been hacked or is showing adverts that try to compromise my systems, it will usually slow down and/or lock up Internet Explorer. Then I close all windows, save my work and then run one of the online scanners from a reputable company like bitdefender, f-secure, Kaspersky or trendmicro for example as a tertiary check.

So far, no great problems. Just don’t think that comparisons are the full story, Essentials is actually much better than it appears. No one solution is perfect and you can never be completely safe. It has to always be a trade-off. I am happy with Essentials even though I have fast computers, as it gives almost no false positives. I run some obscure programs for my hobbies on one computer and I found that all the others were giving too many false positives for my liking. The other difference you might want to consider is that I do not download torrents. If you often do, then you might want a more “pro-active” antivirus than Essentials?

Reply | Quote

T.K, to continue your excellent summary about MSE, I read somewhere that unlike other antiWhatever software, MSE will step aside “like a gentleman,” and allow the user to boldly go where not even Pcard or the Borg should boldly go [or do].

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

Reply | Quote

T.K, to continue your excellent summary about MSE, I read somewhere that unlike other antiWhatever software, MSE will step aside “like a gentleman,” and allow the user to boldly go where not even Pcard or the Borg should boldly go [or do].

Oops, you are absolutely right and it is something important that I completely forgot to mention! Thank you for that RolandJS!

Yes, MSE seems more willing to play nice with other antivirus/antimalware programs than any other as well as letting you have more control. Usually running two antivirus programs at the same time is a bad idea, because they are signature-based. That means they contain small snippets of malware code which they compare to what is on your computer, looking for close matches. When you run two programs like that, they keep flagging each other as malware and have to check. Sometimes one will try to disable and delete the other, but in my experience what happens is that your computer slows down to where it is almost unusable and there may be a lot of internet activity as they keep sending samples of each others code back to check if it really is malware.

Microsoft Security Essentials (and Defender) do seem to stand aside and let alternatives run without problems, even browser-based scanners seem to run without problems for me (Win 7 x64 Ultimate).

I do use Zone Alarm, but ONLY as a firewall. Along with Avast and Avira, I had to get rid of them as they were throwing up way too many false positives – But do remember that I run a lot of slightly unusual or old programs for my hobbies on one machine, so I probably got more false positives than most from them. One product even had an advanced “feature” that stopped things from being changed in key areas of your computer and also seemed to stop some areas from running installation programs at all. Not only did it stop me from using or altering my computer, but when Windows tried to update itself, it was partially prevented from doing so and all I could do was recover a rather old back-up from before the software had updated itself and added this “useful” extra “protection” by default and trashed the operating system completely. Even trying to uninstall the program would not give me back control of my files and folders again.

Reply | Quote

I could be wrong, but Windows Defender in Win7 is turned off when MSE is installed and turned back on when MSE is uninstalled. Also, Win7 Windows Defender may not even be a basic AV, rather it may only be antimalware.

@paulwilke,

You should (probably) go ahead and turn Windows Defender off if you have MSE installed because, as I understand this, MSE does what Windows Defender does plus being an antivirus program.

Reply | Quote

I could be wrong, but Windows Defender in Win7 is turned off when MSE is installed and turned back on when MSE is uninstalled. Also, Win7 Windows Defender may not even be a basic AV, rather it may only be antimalware.

@paulwilke,
You should (probably) go ahead and turn Windows Defender off if you have MSE installed because, as I understand this, MSE does what Windows Defender does plus being an antivirus program.

Now I am confused again.

As I have said before I recently ‘found’ that Defender program on my Acer laptop, and turned it on even while I had MSE installed. Should I turn it off?
Do the 2 interfere in any way?

I have observed that my computer is very slow to connect to my home page of Google when I first start up, and it is slow to shut down. (I have Google as my home page as I have 3 gmail accounts for various different subjects)

Part of this problem may be because I also still have that recommended ‘Hitman Pro’ installed, and I think it is running a check each time I newly turn on the computer. I’m thinking of just removing it.

Reply | Quote

Now I am confused again.

As I have said before I recently ‘found’ that Defender program on my Acer laptop, and turned it on even while I had MSE installed. Should I turn it off?
Do the 2 interfere in any way?

I have observed that my computer is very slow to connect to my home page of Google when I first start up, and it is slow to shut down. (I have Google as my home page as I have 3 gmail accounts for various different subjects)

Part of this problem may be because I also still have that recommended ‘Hitman Pro’ installed, and I think it is running a check each time I newly turn on the computer. I’m thinking of just removing it.

I would turn Windows Defender off and see if things improve. (My suspicion is, Yes, system performance will improve because, as I understand it what Defender does is included in MSE. If you turned Defender on after having installed MSE, that could be why your system performance is not so good.)

Reply | Quote

As noted below this product finished last but todays problems are really pups ( potentially unwanted programs ) that you’re tricked into installing on your machine or plug ins in you’re browser . For these you need other types of products I would just get Panda free for viruses and malewarebytes for the pups and browser hijacks then add Spyware blaster that runs in the back ground with a spyware white list . Note the install instructions Turn off antivirus before download and install , up date then turn antivirus back on . Finally add hitman pro alert as a plug in to your browser and your good to go I use the free versions of all of this

Bob

I was recently back in WashDC where I visited a MicroCenter store. At the help desk, I causally inquired about anti-virus programs and was handed a sheet of paper that listed some antivirus programs in a sort of top ten format. What surprised me was that Security Essentials was listed at the bottom??

Something like 3 years ago I had a professional install a new hard drive into my old XP desktop machine as a precautionary operation,…being my machine was an aging one. I had been running AVG for years, first the free version, then the paid subscription. I developed this feeling that the ‘advanced AVG’ was slowing up my computer by just checking and double checking everything too much. My professional installer said that this might be entirely possible.

He suggested that I just install Security Essentials, a free program, and a very good one in his opinion. I (we) did install that antivirus program and it worked perfect for me for at least 3 years (maybe more, I’ve forgotten).

So I was surprised to find it rated at the bottom of a list of good antivirus software? ANY OPINIONS ??

PS: I found this quote on an older subject thread:

Reply | Quote

Looking at the AV comparison link provided by jwitalka above reminded me again that I rarely see Zone Alarm included in this type of comparison. Is this an indication that ZA is not in the same league as the AV programs considered in the comparisons? I have used ZA (paid, along with the free version of Malware Bytes) for several years with no severe problems. I realize that this is not proof of anything other than maybe a little bit of carefulness and a lot of good luck. I have just been wondering if I should consider trying to find something else a little stronger without bringing on a serious slowdown.

Thanks for any insights,
Gary (W7 Home Premium x64 SP1)

Reply | Quote

MSE has lost its way.
I previously used Avast (free) which is good.
Now using Avira (free) which is excellent.

Reply | Quote

Since Fred recommended MSE so strongly a while back, I’ve been using it, with no problems. Then again, in 20 years online I’ve never had a virus. I don’t use IE for anything, not using FF either, I use Pale Moon since version 28 of FF, and it works just fine. I have a hardware firewall on my router, use Comodo as my software firewall (only), and have the paid version of Malwarebytes (which incidentally does find PUP’s every time I fire up Chrome, which is not all that often) which provides real time malware protection. I use an addon from FF (Pale Moon is also Mozilla spawn) Web of Trust, which I have learned to trust over the years. So rather than a suite (which used to be Zone Alarm Pro) I’ve gone to standalone tools and still haven’t managed to catch so much as a cold. MSE has never interfered with anything, the only burps I ever hear come from Comodo and that is only when I’ve installed something new to it. Safe computing is still always the best defense. :^)

Reply | Quote

… Safe computing is still always the best defense.

I can’t agree more and second that motion!

IMHO it is way better to keep the burglar out of the warehouse rather than to fight him inside.

Reply | Quote