Mike Bombich (CCC) : No bootable backups in the future

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Beyond Bootable Backups: Adapting recovery strategies for an evolving platform

CCC 5.1.27 and CCC 6 can make bootable backups on Intel and Apple Silicon Macs (11.3+) right now, and we’ll continue to support that functionality as long as macOS supports it.

But as Apple’s platform continues to evolve, we have to design our recovery strategies around the current hardware capabilities. A bootable external device may not be a part of that strategy. CCC can do so much more than just make copies of the system, and now is the right time to revisit your backup strategy and make it even better with some of the new features in CCC 6.

For decades, Mac users have taken for granted the Mac’s “External Boot” feature. Prior to Mac OS X, people could simply drag and drop the System folder from one volume to another; presto, external boot volume. When Apple made it more complicated with Mac OS X, we pioneered the “bootable backup” solution (nearly 20 years ago!), and this has been a feature we’ve reliably supported on every new Mac and every new OS since then.

But Apple has never been afraid of shaking things up to blaze new trails. Big Sur and the new Apple Silicon Macs have shaken up the way Mac users will recover from hardware failure…

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Thanks, Alex. This seems like a truly important thing to know, in my case in particular, because I am planning to jump over Catalina from Mojave directly into BigSur in another couple of months. So I have some comments and questions about it. Please, see below.

From the CCC article:

“Especially since the introduction of APFS (*), Apple has been moving towards a lockdown of macOS system files, sacrificing some convenience for increased security.”

OCP — I see: Bad news.

“ASR [Apple Software Restore] is also very one-dimensional; choosing to copy the system requires that we sacrifice other backup features, e.g. we cannot copy the system and retain versioned backups of your data, we can’t evaluate what was copied, we can’t exclude items from the initial backup, we can’t save checksum data for later verification. So, while we’re certainly able to make a bootable copy of the system with ASR, it starts to feel like using it causes us to lose sight of what’s actually important to back up – your irreplaceable data.”

OCP — How about keeping the “Time Machine” external drive permanently connected to one’s Mac, if the loss of any data not immediately backed up can be so serious that it cannot be afforded by a particular user?

“After you have reinstalled macOS on your Mac, or when you boot a new Mac for the first time, you can migrate data from your CCC backup via Migration Assistant. CCC Standard Backups are compatible with Migration Assistant, and we support that configuration.”

OCP — So only users who have a backup macOS disk image somewhere, know how use it, and are in a position to use it can do this? That surely must leave plenty of users high and dry.

(*) ” Apple File System (APFS), the default file system for Mac computers using 10.13 or later, features strong encryption, space …”

https://support.apple.com/guide/disk-utility/file-system-formats-available-in-disk-utility-dsku19ed921c/mac

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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APFS on Big Sur have its drawbacks

macOS Big Sur supports Time Machine on APFS-formatted drives, but there are a few catches

..Big Sur APFS-based Time Machine backups can’t be used in Catalina or earlier releases. This might go without saying, but I know enough people with mixed-system setups who will ask. Not only must you use Big Sur to back up to an APFS-formatted Time Machine volume, you can’t even access the backups from a Mac with Catalina or an earlier macOS version installed…

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This seems to be a potentially very serious issue, particularly for me, as I must upgrade from Mojave to BigSur later this year. Unfortunately, the explanation in the article, at least to me, is as clear as mud, So here is a simple and direct question requiring an equally simple and direct answer:

First, some background:

I have had the same Time Machine external hard disk since I got my one and only Mac, a MacBook Pro (ca. mid-2015) laptop, back in mid-2017, so obviously an Intel Mac. It came with Sierra as its OS and then. skipping over High Sierra, I upgraded over a year ago to Mojave and I am still running Mojave on it. I have backed up my data in the same external hard disk since I got the Mac, in 2017, and still I am doing so.

Now, my question:

When I move, in a couple of months, to BigSur, shall I be able to do backups of my BigSur data in my one and only Intel 4-year old Mac laptop, by then running BigSur, in the same hard disk I have been using since Sierra, and retrieve both these new files and those saved there while using the old systems? Thank you, in advance, for any useful and practical answers.

 

 

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I think the article is clear and the answer is dependent of the current file type you are using HF+ or APSF.

There’s no way to convert an HFS+ Time Machine volume to one that uses APFS without erasing it. Apple created an exceedingly wacky way to encompass Time Machine’s snapshot format inside the APFS format, almost as if the company hadn’t developed both APFS and Time Machine. (Insert thinking face emoji here, for sure.)

Your old HFS+ based Time Machine volumes remain valid and readable in Big Sur. You can set up a drive from scratch with HFS+ to create new Time Machine volumes as well. That’s not a problem. However, if you want to shift a drive from HFS+ to APFS, you have to reformat the drive, and that erases all the Time Machine backups. Because of the structural differences, you can’t just copy from HFS+ to APFS, either…

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I have seen that already and it does not answer my question. In particular this part at least that I expand for greatest clarity:

Considering that one has only one Mac, can one continue to use with BigSur, to make backups, the same Time Machine hard disk used already with previous versions of macOS, and be able to backup on it and retrieve files both backed up there before and after the switch to BigSur, or does one have to have two separate hard disks, the old one up to the time of the switch over to BigSur, and a  new one exclusively for BigSur backups? That’s it. Please, do not mention “volumes”, “containers”, or any technical words or expressions not used explicitly in the question. Thanks.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

or does one have to have two separate hard disks

If you current HDD is formatted for HFS+ and you want to keep the old backups you will need a new APFS backup drive for Big Sur.
If your current backup drive is APFS you can continue to use the drive with Big Sur.

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Alex5723 wrote:

OscarCP wrote:

or does one have to have two separate hard disks

If you current HDD is formatted for HFS+ and you want to keep the old backups you will need a new APFS backup drive for Big Sur.
If your current backup drive is APFS you can continue to use the drive with Big Sur.

I think whats Oscar is asking about is his external hard drive and not the Mac’s internal hard drive which is APFS on the new models.  My 2019 iMac came with APFS/Catalina and I know have Big Sur on it.  The APFS internal hard drive did not change.  It is still APFS.  In both cases, my EXTERNAL HARD DRIVE was formatted to ex-Fat.  Oscar…what format do you have on your external hard drive?  Are you asking if the external hard drive needs to change?

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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I think Oscar went from Sierra (HFS+) to Mojave (??).
If I recall, the change from HFS+ to APFS was a choice you could make when installing High Sierra (give me an exception for age-related lack of memory retention if I’m wrong).
If the original format of the Time Machine used in Sierra was HFS+, and it was not reformatted for the change to Mojave, it still may be formatted HFS+.

This information may be available through the Time Machine software or maybe by right clicking on the Time Machine in Finder and “Get info.” Also maybe the System Report, connected h/w (?).

I believe the answer to his question will depend on how the Time Machine is currently formatted.

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OscarCP

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pmcjr6142 wrote:

I think whats Oscar is asking about is his external hard drive and not the Mac’s internal hard

I was referring to Time Machine backup drives..

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OscarCP

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Thanks to you all.

I have been in touch with Nathan last night and he has told me that I can keep on using my by now 4 years old (short of a few weeks) Time Machine hard disk, because, according to him, I should  be able to retrieve files from this HD with BigSur, that will convert them to the new format:

“I believe you’ll still be able to access your files backed up with Time Machine after you upgrade to Big Sur. What happens is it converts your existing Time Machine backup into the new format (it also did this in Catalina). I can double-check with some other Mac experts though to see.

You shouldn’t need two drives, but if you want to keep your pre-Big Sur Time Machine drive separate from your Big Sur Time Machine drive, it wouldn’t hurt. That way it wouldn’t covert it to the new format.

Once it’s converted to the new format, the only “issue” is you can’t access the files on a pre-BigSur Mac. Only a Mac running Big Sur or later could access the files.

If you go that route and decide on two drives, you may want to try a trial of CCC for your Big Sur backups. It’s working great for me and far more flexible than Time Machine. I plan to buy the CCC v6 upgrade soon.”

Other opinions, please? Anyone else?

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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OscarCP wrote:

I should  be able to retrieve files from this HD with BigSur, that will convert them to the new format:

You will be able to READ HFS+ Time Machine backup files but you won’t be able to WRITE/ADD to the same HFS+ backup drive in Big Sur. Writing to that drive will format the drive to APFS and erase the data.

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OscarCP

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OK, Now the score is 1, 1 for “yes, two drives” and “no, one drive is enough, but two is OK too”.

So “two drives” is becoming more of a definite thing to consider.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I must take my previous comment back: what Alex has written about recovering OK,  but backing up a file or files causes the old-format external Time Machine drive to be reformatted to the new format and its previous contents to be wiped out?

That no longer works for me.

Reason? That to recover a file from Time Machine one has to connect the external disk (I do not keep it connected 24/7 to the Mac, and even if I did, it would make no difference as far as what follows goes).

By connecting the TM disk to the Mac and choosing to recover something from it, one has to start TM first. And the moment TM starts, it stars looking for something to back up and then starts to backup whatever is there.

On the one hand, according to Alex, that will reformat the disk and make it unusable. So whatever one does, the old stuff will be wiped out, in practical terms, the first time one uses the old TM disk — that I have been using since I got the Mac in 2017, then running Sierra — when one is running BigSur and then tries to use Time Machine with the old disk. But according to Nathan, on the other hand, there will be reformatting, it’s true, but it will be OK and all the old stuff there will still be available for further retrieval, only now in the new format. To be retrieved, that is, as long as it is with a Mac that is running BigSur or later. I have just the one Mac, so after I move on to BigSur from Mojave, sometime this summer, that is not going to be an issue.

So I must modify the previous score:

Now it stands, once more, as: 0, 1 for “yes, two drives” and “no, one drive is enough, but two is OK too”.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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I don’t use TM for reasons such as you’ve described.  Plus, I’ve never really understood how to use it.  One article I read last year when I got my first Mac and started to learn how to use it, said don’t use TM, it can cause more problems than it was worth.   Just drag/drop important files like Documents and Pictures to an external hard drive formatted to ex-Fat.  That’s what I’ve been doing.

iPhone 13, 2019 iMac(SSD)

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OscarCP

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pmcjr6142: I have been using Time Machine for nearly four years, since I got my Mac, and have not noticed any problems doing that, so far. There are some good articles online that explain how to use it. That said, I have not used it for much more than to make backups every so often, and have retrieved something from it only a few times, because I keep copies of the things I want to make sure I still have around and handy, in more than one directory in the Mac (old habit), so my experience with Time Machine is limited. What you do is also a good idea (that is what I used to do to back up my things in the Windows 7 PC, back when I was still using Windows.)

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

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pmcjr6142

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