Networking technologies

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I need advice on the pros and cons of different networking methods.

We are renovating our house and adding a second storey and have the opportunity to lay network cables. Our internet access is via an ADSL2+ modem/router with wireless (wifi) and four ethernet outlets. Our network, at least initially, will include a few laptops/netbooks and a smartphone (which will continue to use the wifi connection), and a printer.

Should I be laying network cables (CAT5e/CAT6), or using powerline adapters for the laptops/netbooks, or just use wifi? What are the benefits/concerns with each, in relation to speed, security and “futureproofing”?

At the moment, network use is limited to email, copying files, printing and web browsing. But when I have time, I would like to find out about sharing movies/photos across the network.

Thanks for your help.

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Cat6 will be best option for future proof investment as it widely used by Phone Service Providers around the world.

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You may want to consider Ethernet for the TV.

I have a Samsung SMART TV that uses Ethernet to connect to the ‘net and among other things, it’s how its firmware updates are obtained.

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Ethernet is still too slow for real time HD video, but it’s OK for downloading the program for you to watch later.

cheers, Paul

p.s. the boring old satellite feed via coax has speeds in the terabit region, vs gigabit for ethernet.

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Ethernet is not used for TV and isn’t likely to be, except for streaming from storage.

Paul,

I don’t know where on “Earth” you are but her in the good ole USofA apps like Hulu Plus, Net Flix, and others are built right into smart TVs, DVD players, and DVRs and they all require connection to the NET. Not to mention getting firmware updates for those devices. So IMHO you want BOTH coax & Cat 6 cables anywhere you want to put or might want to put a TV. As DG stated it’s trivial to do while the walls are open so don’t miss the chance. I put Cat 5 into the walls of our house when we built it in 2001 unfortunately we didn’t have smart TVs, etc. at the time so I didn’t put Cat 5 with the Coax and now I have a black wire running from my router to my main TV (lucky they are in the same room) for the above mentioned services (I can’t live w/o my Net Flix!). I’ve got it mostly hidden behind furniture but it still shows in spots as I haven’t gotten out the drill just yet (not very handy that way).

HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Paul,

I don’t know where on “Earth” you are but her in the good ole USofA apps like Hulu Plus, Net Flix, and others are built right into smart TVs, DVD players, and DVRs and they all require connection to the NET. Not to mention getting firmware updates for those devices. So IMHO you want BOTH coax & Cat 6 cables anywhere you want to put or might want to put a TV. As DG stated it’s trivial to do while the walls are open so don’t miss the chance. I put Cat 5 into the walls of our house when we built it in 2001 unfortunately we didn’t have smart TVs, etc. at the time so I didn’t put Cat 5 with the Coax and now I have a black wire running from my router to my main TV (lucky they are in the same room) for the above mentioned services (I can’t live w/o my Net Flix!). I’ve got it mostly hidden behind furniture but it still shows in spots as I haven’t gotten out the drill just yet (not very handy that way).

HTH :cheers:

Actually, I have often been surprised at how easily a competent electrician or linesman can thread extra wires alongside existing wiring to add to the building’s existing wiring, without having to disturb the roof or wall framework. (Hey, talk to your electrician or linesman, that is outside my territory).

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Actually, I have often been surprised at how easily a competent electrician or linesman can thread extra wires alongside existing wiring to add to the building’s existing wiring, without having to disturb the roof or wall framework. (Hey, talk to your electrician or linesman, that is outside my territory).

True in many cases but not all. Its much cheaper to get it done while the walls are open as RG suggested.

Jerry

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Paul,

I don’t know where on “Earth” you are but her in the good ole USofA apps like Hulu Plus, Net Flix, and others are built right into smart TVs, DVD players, and DVRs and they all require connection to the NET. Not to mention getting firmware updates for those devices. So IMHO you want BOTH coax & Cat 6 cables anywhere you want to put or might want to put a TV. As DG stated it’s trivial to do while the walls are open so don’t miss the chance. I put Cat 5 into the walls of our house when we built it in 2001 unfortunately we didn’t have smart TVs, etc. at the time so I didn’t put Cat 5 with the Coax and now I have a black wire running from my router to my main TV (lucky they are in the same room) for the above mentioned services (I can’t live w/o my Net Flix!). I’ve got it mostly hidden behind furniture but it still shows in spots as I haven’t gotten out the drill just yet (not very handy that way).

HTH :cheers:

A little help please, for an older guy who doesn’t fully understand some of this new technology of cables and router selections.

I have just moved to a new residence in FL (a very nice mobile home) that previously had satellite service. I had Comcast come out and ‘rejuvenate’ their older connection so I could get some good internet service. This service comes into he house via a coax cable, that I connected to a new Motorola surfboard modem (SB6121) that I purchased to replace my older one.

I then tried to install my older Netgear router, but discovered it was not up to the task, as it kept dropping the internet connection. I replaced that router with another Netgear one that I borrowed from a friend, and that has kept me connected for just basic internet surfing.

But I want to purchase my own new router. As I look thru the bewildering selection I get confused. I run across some that are highly recommended by some ‘knowledgeable’ folks only to discover some very negative comments about the individual units on Amazon customer reviews. It really appears that there are a great number of these new routers brought on the market, and professed to be the ‘greatest thing since…’ , only to be found to either not hold up for long, or have some very negative features. It appears as though the dual-band ones are the ones to buy now?
Can someone offer me a few suggestions for a good router that will cover a moderate single floor mobile-home with good internet and streaming video,….at a reasonable price??

I also want to install a Roku3 system for streaming video. What internet speed do I really need for streaming video? When I googled this, I got an answer that said anything in the 3-mbps plus range would do just find? But I have had many folks tell me I need more…..at least 6-mbps?

And should I be concerned with the ‘quality’ of the Ethernet cable connecting the modem with the router? Do I want a Cat6 cable? (I just read this discussion of coax and cat6, and discovered that cat6 is just a real hi-quality Ethernet cable,…is that correct?)

thanks, Brian

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……

But I want to purchase my own new router. As I look thru the bewildering selection I get confused. I run across some that are highly recommended by some ‘knowledgeable’ folks only to discover some very negative comments about the individual units on Amazon customer reviews. It really appears that there are a great number of these new routers brought on the market, and professed to be the ‘greatest thing since…’ , only to be found to either not hold up for long, or have some very negative features. It appears as though the dual-band ones are the ones to buy now?
Can someone offer me a few suggestions for a good router that will cover a moderate single floor mobile-home with good internet and streaming video,….at a reasonable price??

This is an example of one that was highly touted by one source on the internet, but didn’t fair so well with some of the reviews on Amazon,….and it wasn’t a cheap unit
Linksys AC1750 Wi-Fi Wireless Dual-Band+ Router with Gigabit & USB 3.0

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This is an example of one that was highly touted by one source on the internet, but didn’t fair so well with some of the reviews on Amazon…

I tend to take opinions in “user reviews” and comments with a large grain of salt, as many times I have seen negative opinions expressed about products I know do not have the deficiencies claimed of them. Probably such mistaken negative opinions are those of marketers for a competitor?

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I tend to take opinions in “user reviews” and comments with a large grain of salt, as many times I have seen negative opinions expressed about products I know do not have the deficiencies claimed of them. Probably such mistaken negative opinions are those of marketers for a competitor?

I do realize there are some things to sort thru when looking at ‘user reviews’, …and that is part of what makes it complicated to sort thru this mess of opinions and facts. The consumer is getting f—- in many instances these days. I’m just trying to be as informed as I can get, but my older age and lack of knowledge of this new computer world (and language) hinders me.

I believe this is where I saw some good reports on that Linksys unit I mentioned above:
http://www.techspot.com/products/routers/linksys-ea6500-hd-video-pro-ac1750-smart-wi-fi-wireless-router.88535/

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…I’m just trying to be as informed as I can get, but my older age and lack of knowledge of this new computer world (and language) hinders me…

That would apply to most of us.

Have you tried upgrading the firmware on your old Netgear WGT624? (could solve the disconnect problem).

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Have you tried upgrading the firmware on your old Netgear WGT624? (could solve the disconnect problem).

Didn’t realize you could do that. I gave it away last weekend

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And they not only run well with wired Ethernet as RG said, my Roku runs well with a wireless connection for TV streaming.

Jerry

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RG, you managed to ignore the bit about “streaming from storage”, which is what you are doing. Live TV requires more bandwidth than Ethernet can currently provide.

cheers, Paul

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Paul,

RG, you managed to ignore the bit about “streaming from storage”, which is what you are doing. Live TV requires more bandwidth than Ethernet can currently provide.
cheers, Paul

I thought I had that covered with:

So IMHO you want BOTH coax & Cat 6 cables

:cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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I’m coming late to this thread. Nonetheless . . .

Live TV requires more bandwidth than Ethernet can currently provide.cheers, Paul

I must respectfully disagree with the above statement. Modern TV and Video works well on Cat5 Ethernet cable and Cat6 is not much more expensive, so run that instead.

Do be sure to run *both* quad-shield RG6 *and* Cat6 to your TV location if you can. Also run an extra Cat5 cable for use as audio (you get 4 balanced pairs) and, again, it’s inexpensive.

FWIW – Our local Telco is delivering multiple simultaneous channels of HD TV over DSL at speeds significantly LESS than what Cat5 can handle. The interconnect cable between modem and cable boxes is Cat5 cable.

dwayne

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Brian, congratulations on a first post that opens a very large can of worms. 🙂
Your existing router should be up to the job of providing internet connection, but may not handle the video streaming you want. What is the model of the router?
Are you likely to be streaming different video to different machines at the same time? This may require a bit more from a router, but modern routers should be up to the job.
Streaming speed depends entirely on your source material. If it’s all high def then you need as much bandwidth as you can get. Again, a modern router should handle this no problem.
A CAT5e cable will stream your video happily – it’ll run up to 1Gb.

I’m sure others will have more questions / suggestions.

cheers, Paul

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Brian, congratulations on a first post that opens a very large can of worms. 🙂
Your existing router should be up to the job of providing internet connection, but may not handle the video streaming you want. What is the model of the router?

My original router was a Netgear WGT624, 108mbps unit that served me well for many years, but now seems to be just too old. It is the one that kept disconnecting from the internet just recently, particularly when I went to access my gmail and/or google home page.

The router I have now borrowed from a friend is a Netgear WNR2000v2. This unit seems to be working fine for regular web searching and email access.

But I want to get a Roku box and do some video streaming. I’m assuming I need an even better router for this work?,….and perhaps a dual-band one??
These are 2 models I am considering:
1) Netgear WNDR4500 N900 Dual Band
2) Netgear N750 Dual Band Wi-Fi Gigabit Router (WNDR4300)

Are you likely to be streaming different video to different machines at the same time? This may require a bit more from a router, but modern routers should be up to the job.
Streaming speed depends entirely on your source material. If it’s all high def then you need as much bandwidth as you can get. Again, a modern router should handle this no problem.
A CAT5e cable will stream your video happily – it’ll run up to 1Gb. Paul

No, I only expect to stream NETFLIX video to one new large screen LG LED TV, and hook up a wireless keyboard so I can do some web-surfing on that large screen in lieu of my laptop computer.

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If your computer has a Gigabit Ethernet card in it, then you’ll want a router that has Gigabit ports and I’m not sure if all routers now have those, so you will have to check their specs before deciding.

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Streaming video from the internet does not require a particularly fast router as the internet and your connection speed are the limiting factors. Your old WGT624 will stream happily, as will the WNR2000. If you need to give the loan unit back then the WNDR4300 will be more than enough for your needs.
Note: your computers may not have WiFi capable of running at the speeds of these new routers, but they will still work happily.

cheers, Paul

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Streaming video from the internet does not require a particularly fast router as the internet and your connection speed are the limiting factors. Your old WGT624 will stream happily, as will the WNR2000.
cheers, Paul

Paul, here is an example of part of my dilemma. I just looked this Netgear one up on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-N600-Wi-Fi-Router-WNDR3400/dp/B0041LYY6K/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1417228303&sr=8-1&keywords=netgear+router+wndr3400

Here is their ‘sales pitch’
Faster WiFi Speed: N600 Dual Band WiFi delivers 300 + 300Mbps
•Ideal WiFi range for medium to large homes
•Simultaneous Dual Band: Reduces interferences for better connections to more WiFi devices
•NETGEAR genie® home network manager for easy installation and home network management

BUT, now read thru some of the customer comments. I was surprised that quite a few of them had problems with their unit beginning to drop the internet connections (and require ‘rebooting’) after a few months usage:
(“This product worked great for about 2-3 months then I had to reset the router sometimes. About 5 months after I bought this router, I had to reset it 4-5 times a week. It will not stay connected with my phone, laptop, or my computer (hardwired). I know it is not my modem because when I reset it, I connect with any or all of my devices”)

And I was really surprised to hear a number of these customers saying how much their routers seemed to be the culprit in slowing down their internet speeds.

(could not locate the specific quote I had read once before)

(“Third, while all of my gear connected easily with each other, this piece of junk had severe network slowdowns. I mean, my internet speeds slowed down to between 150-250Kbps…slower than my first DSL about 12 years ago! Unplugging, letting it sit for a couple of minutes, then pluggin in again would usually work for a day or two, then back to ridiculous speeds again.”)

(“Specific problem: Wireless bandwidth was dramatically slower than wired. Was getting 22Mbps max via wireless, but anywhere from 55-80Mbps wired. I went through 4 different routers on warranty exchange, several phone calls, hours of time with Netgear support. The closest I got to improvement was the last router (an upgraded version) that got about 36Mbps on wireless (on some of my devices), but my laptop wouldn’t connect.”)

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…And I was really surprised to hear a number of these customers saying how much their routers seemed to be the culprit in slowing down their internet speeds…

I wonder how many routers Netgear has supplied to the market? It should not surprise us if there are a few negative comments. Also, there might be a tendency to mistakenly blame the router because it is a physical/visible thing, when the real cause is likely to be wrong settings or problems with their ISP’s systems.

I use a Netgear DGN1000 ADSL2+ WiFi Modem Router myself (for about eighteen months now), and am very happy with it. I replaced my previous modem/router with the DGN1000 after supplying and installing a few DGN1000s for customers, and was very impressed with the speed and WiFi range of these units.

Overall I think I have supplied/installed about 30 of these units; only one had to be returned for warranty because the on/off switch refused to stay in the on position.

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I have a router provided by my ISP and at first it seemed to slow to a crawl after a week or two and be OK after a reboot. Lately it’s been fine, so I suspect it’s not really the router at fault. When dealing with your own equipment it’s important to remember that “a sample size of 1 does not a study make”.

cheers, Paul

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Doing a little more searching for a router this morning, and ran across this cheap model that got very good reviews in general:
http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-WR841N-Wireless-Router-300Mpbs/dp/B001FWYGJS/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

But this particular negative review got my attention,…concerning how much a router might slow down ones’ connection speed:

I have ordered two different TP-Link routers in the past 2 years. My reason? The amazon ratings were mostly 5-star, however, the set-up for the TP-Link routers is not as easy as other routers and I compared the speeds of this TP-Link TL-WR841N to another router made by Netgear that cost only $15 more–

My internet is 100mbps:

TP-Link TL-WR841N wireless speed: 10mbps
TP-Link TL-WR841N wired speeds: 30-35mbps

NetGear N750 router wireless speed: 65mbps
Netgear N750 router wired speed: 80-95mbps

Do a lot of routers really slow down one’s connection speed?

The reason I ask is that supposedly my new Comcast connection is suppose to be 25mbps, or at the very least 6mbps. But what I am getting according to a Comcast Speed Check from their own site is 3.61 ….just unacceptable considering what I contracted for ??

How am I to contest my slow speed with Comcast if they can simply blame it on my router (whichever one I have) ??

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You get what you pay for, so it would not be unusual to see a cheap router fail to achieve the theoretical maximum speed. It would also be unusual to see an expensive router achieve the maximum theoretical speed as you have to take into account cables, PC overhead etc.
Stop reading reviews and buy one that fits your requirements and your wallet. If it fails to live up to your expectations, send it back and get something else. 🙂

cheers, Paul

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You get what you pay for,

It use to be that way in this country (USA), but nowadays I think they just have to sweep all this electronic gear out the door, regardless of its short comings,…just to not lose everything invested in it, and to make room for more and more variations.

Stop reading reviews and buy one that fits your requirements and your wallet. If it fails to live up to your expectations, send it back and get something else. 🙂
cheers, Paul

I hear what you are saying, ….and I am getting tried of looking. But I like to be an educated buyer, and not have to send things back.

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The NETGEAR N600 should be plenty powerful enough for you and the price seems right. I’d buy one.

cheers, Paul

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What do youse guyse think of Netgear 7550? My AT&T DSL setup earlier white-colored router/modem was replaced by Netgear 7550. I have old apartment wiring from wall to whatever point outside. So far, hard-wire is more reliable for file-transfer/sharing than the wireless. I wonder if I need some router/modem guru come in and tweak the settings.

"Take care of thy backups and thy restores shall take care of thee." Ben Franklin, revisted

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Seems it’s an ISP specific beasty that is probably only just good enough – it was cheap, that’s why your ISP bought them. You could piggyback a better unit and turn off the wireless on the 7550.

cheers, Paul

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So I’m up visiting DC area and I go into one of the Micro Center stores that I have purchased items from before. A young fellow who appears to be quite knowledgeable suggest I try this Linksys AC1200 EA6300 dual band router that is on a special offer as a factory refurbished……49.99. They are boxed and look like they are brand new units.
http://www.microcenter.com/category/4294966869,4294966228/LinkSys-Wireless-Routers

…and they were not a cheap router to begin with.

So I bought one.

Now doing a little research, it appears as though several folks have had to do a ‘firmware update’, …and it appears as though some folks suggest that this be done right away?

And I noticed this quote on one of the firmware support forums,

Puddie wrote:
hi I was silly enough to do the firmware upgrade on auto and now its killed the internet access through the router, done several hard resets and tried manual firmware upgrade didn’t work…..router still dead (lights all working)
been on tech support for 10 hours plus and now seen this.. i cant find Firmware 1.1.40.153731 anywhere, and when i do its got no file. can someone tell me where to get it from. Tech support have been unhelpful and i have a very unhappy family

https://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/Linksys-EA6300-Issues-After-Firmware-Upgrade/td-p/847432

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So I’m up visiting DC area and I go into one of the Micro Center stores that I have purchased items from before. A young fellow who appears to be quite knowledgeable suggest I try this Linksys AC1200 EA6300 dual band router that is on a special offer as a factory refurbished……49.99. They are boxed and look like they are brand new units.
http://www.microcenter.com/category/4294966869,4294966228/LinkSys-Wireless-Routers

…and they were not a cheap router to begin with.

So I bought one.

Now doing a little research, it appears as though several folks have had to do a ‘firmware update’, …and it appears as though some folks suggest that this be done right away?

And I noticed this quote on one of the firmware support forums,

https://community.linksys.com/t5/Wireless-Routers/Linksys-EA6300-Issues-After-Firmware-Upgrade/td-p/847432

Back with an update on my selection of a router.

I ended up returning this unused Linksys AC1200 EA6300 before I left DC to return to FL. My reasoning was that if I was going to go with this model I might as well purchase it from Amazon or the like, so I could more easily process any warranty situation that might arise,…rather than having to deal long distance with MicroCenter that has no stores down south here.

Concurrently I discovered an ebay offer for a Netgear n600, WNDR 3800, for only $28 with free shipping. I decided to give it a try. Got back to Florida just before Christmas, and it was in my mailbox. Hooked it up and it has worked flawlessly so far….fingers crossed

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As it’s been refurbished it’s probably up to date so I’d plug it in and see how it goes.

cheers, Paul

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As it’s been refurbished it’s probably up to date so I’d plug it in and see how it goes.

cheers, Paul

Refurbished….what does it really mean these days ????

For example I looked up this Netgear router that is utilized in a limo company I worked for. supposedly a pretty good router,…but look what a number of folks said about a “certified refurbished” unit:
http://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/B00E4U83B0/ref=acr_search_see_all?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

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Refurbished means it was returned under warranty and the manufacturer reckons they have fixed any problems and are attempting to get some money back. Doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a subtle fault that only rears it’s ugly head after a week or two, but it does have a warranty, or maybe you have a weird arrangement in the states?

cheers, Paul

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Hi Paul,
I really wonder about this term ‘refurbished’. I think I remember what it use to mean, but I have my doubts about that same meaning today. I believe it may be more of a ‘marketing label’ they put on items they wish to clear out of inventory.

I started new subject thread on this ‘REFURBISHED’ subject over under the ‘hardware’ heading as I did not find a general discussion of this VERY often utilized term. these days.

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FYI
Media Bit Rates:

Best bit rate (max), the specification and standard:
HDTV = 20 Mbps
DVD = 9.8Mbps (about 10Mbps)
SVCD = 5.7Mbps
VCD = 1.1Mbps

Best resolution (max):
HDTV:
480p = 640×480 (4:3)
480p = 852×480 (EDTV, 16:9)
720p = 1280×720 (HDTV, 16:9)
1080i= 1920×1080, also HDTV (16:9), interlaced
1080p= 1920×1080 (16:9), non-interlaced
DTV:
480i = 640×480 (4:3)
480p = 640×480
NTSC = 480×350 overscan,
display actual=400×300,
post analog noise=330×250

DVD = 720×480,16:9,
640×480, 4:3
SVCD = 480×480
VCD = 352×240

SVHS = 480×352 (more analog noise than disc)
VHS = 352×240 (same as VCD but more analog noise)
LaserDisc=528×480 (more analog noise than digital disc)

Anamorphic: squeeze 16:9 into 4:3.
When display it back, squeeze 4:3 into 4:2.25 (letterbox)

————————————————————–
Many tricks to transmit HD data.
You can compress first then transmit. MKS file format is one example.
Most cable and other transmissions are NOT true HD (at max bit rate). Most information in the HD data do not have the fastest bit rate requirement. These fastest bit rate requirement is for fast scene changes AND fast color changes. 90% of the time, even the HD content itself does not contain it. Mostly you can produce 1080p under 5-6Mbit/sec. You can even cut the resolution to slightly below HD requirement and 99% of customers would swear it is BluRay resolution. Content of a good movie is the main attraction. ‘Good enough’ resolution is only a side show. Expectation is a relative term: Compared to what? Compared to our pass experience, which is either poor NTSC TV resolution or DVD vs BluRay (and only if you have a *calibrated*, good, large (>=55 inches) 1080p-4k flat panel TV as a platform for comparison).
If you cut frame rate (24 frames/sec) to, say, 20 f/s, you may get away with transmitting at 3-4Mb/s. At 10-15 f/s, may even work at 1-2Mb/s for HD content.
For example, 99% of people would not realize over the air broadcast HDTV is 30 frames/sec and DVD and film are 24 frames/sec. Customers feel no difference! [You can say, then, that extra 6f/s is a waste of technology and/or financial investment.]
If you watch carefully (rather than to enjoy the movie), you will realize that. Some information and software will tell you exactly the frame rate and bit rate too.

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If I were building a new house, I would pull two Cat5e or Cat6 cables on each socket. Or, at least add a 4-wire cable in additional to the network cable. You never know. The extra cable(s) helps in the future. If money is sufficient, I would pull fiber (glass fiber) to each network box and to the main network/phone box.
Technology doubles every 5-10 years. The recent cycling is getting faster and faster. But a house lasts 20-50 years.
Of course, it also runs the risk of wasted capital. Glass fiber could be obsoleted. However, a copper wire is always useful.

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