NoelC's Linux Questions (split)

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An open question to those who have embraced Linux…

Let’s imagine that you have had a few really great applications you came to know under Windows over the years.

Have you been able to achieve the equivalent functionality under Linux?

Beyond the few really essential applications, I’ve been using Windows so long with my productivity tweaks that I imagine I’d have a heckuva “unlearning curve”. So, second question:

Do you feel you’ve been able to get Linux up to a level of productivity that more or less matches what you had achieved with Windows?

-Noel

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DrBonzo

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Noel,
The easiest way to tell would be to download one of the many linux distros and try it out. Considering your computing acumen i’m sure you could determine if Linux would be useful to you in short order. I have concentrated on Ubuntu primarily because it comes with a browser (Firefox) and office tools (LibreOffice) and has a myriad of add-on applications available.

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Noel Carboni

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@Noel – My short answer to each of your questions is ‘no, not yet’. But I perhaps should elaborate a bit.

For me ’embrace Linux’ comes with qualifications. I really like Win 7 and would be happy to use it – or reasonable progressions of it as long as they are stable – until I go 6 feet south. But I am so tired of first fending off Win 10 and the increasing update problems that I simply can’t support MS in any way anymore. I have come to dread patch Tuesdays. So when January 2020 comes around I’m going to be Linux and/or Apple.

I’m a non techie with nowhere near the technical chops you have. Still, I found it relatively easy to install Ubuntu. It seems to be a very stable system and updates are without any drama. The application programs that install with the Ubuntu installation (Firefox, Libre Office, etc.) all seem to work fine. I can tweak and customize things just as much as I did in Win7. Compared to what I’ve read of the tweaking and customization you’ve done, mine is probably fairly minimal, but again, I would think you wouldn’t have much trouble.

My biggest irritation with Ubuntu is perhaps illustrated with an example. I’m in a chorus and one way we learn our parts is by listening to midi files. In Win 7 I just double click the midi file and Windows Media Player plays them. No such joy with Ubuntu. The installed ‘Videos’ app is supposed to play the files but didn’t. The Ubuntu repository has a handful of midi players listed but after installing each of them, still no joy. After googling the issue and going to probably 10 to 15 sites and help forums I finally made an inspired guess that I needed to install something called QSynth. Still no joy. By sheer luck I found a thread that said I needed to open settings in QSynth and check the box for ‘alsa_seq’ for the midi driver. Suddenly all the installed midi players worked. I suspect that to those more knowledgeable than me about Linux, this example demonstrates my stupidity. Perhaps so. But I would contend that it should not be so obtuse or complicated as to require 10 hours for someone to figure out.

Anyway, I think that I will get it all sorted out and be very happy with it. I’ve read that Mint and Zorin are more user friendly, but I have no experience with them.

Finally, for a bit of context, I’d been using Windows exclusively since 1999, and I really don’t have much problem navigating around the Ubuntu desktop or OS. It’s pretty easy to find what I need to find. I’ve had Linux installed on 2 computers for the last 5 months.

That’s my 2 cents worth.

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Noel Carboni, Cascadian, HiFlyer

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Noel, I think you would be ok, and if you need Windows programs you could install Virtualbox and install Windows 7 or something in it. Just do a search on using it in Linux. Some use VMWare, and some use Qemu also. Go to the official forums for the distro you are interested in, might spare hours of reading otherwise!

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Noel Carboni

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Noel Carboni wrote:

An open question to those who have embraced Linux… Let’s imagine that you have had a few really great applications you came to know under Windows over the years. Have you been able to achieve the equivalent functionality under Linux? Beyond the few really essential applications, I’ve been using Windows so long with my productivity tweaks that I imagine I’d have a heckuva “unlearning curve”. So, second question: Do you feel you’ve been able to get Linux up to a level of productivity that more or less matches what you had achieved with Windows? -Noel

If you do GPU intensive tasks at work – that’s probably not going to happen. Linux will always lag behind Windows in that area (unless, for some reason, more AAA games start to be released to Linux and they’ll be selling well). In every other case – I suppose it’s just the matter of software availability and changing your habits a bit maybe.

What bothers me a bit is that I find all the distros I’ve come across visually inferior to Windows – even terribly looking Windows 10. And I do like a nicely looking desktop.

Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta Insider

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Noel Carboni, Cascadian, HiFlyer

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Yeah, Linux is definitely behind on a lot of things. I am still restricted to a VM without 3D acceleration and so I can’t implement all the window effects nor test all the things I want, but I still made it look halfway decent. Replacing Nautilus (default file manager) was a big must for me. If Linux is going to catch up, it’s going to be in the next two years. I really hope to see that happen.

I don’t foresee any problems with implementation since most of the programs I do use are older and the important ones run just fine from what I can tell in Wine. I will try to post my experience with transition once I am able to get the money together to do what I want to do with my system. I am anxious to try, though. I may be able to get away from Windows entirely, but having Windows 7 in a VM isn’t out of the question either.

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Elly, Noel Carboni, Cascadian

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Noel,

> Have you been able to achieve the equivalent functionality under Linux?

Yes, in some cases there are some equivalents that are on par with their Windows Counterparts, in some cases I’ve found a few that are even better than some on Windows. Some are cross platform and thus there was no need to learn anything new.

Some don’t though. Skype used to work great on Linux, but the new version is just awful. I’ll probably ditch Skype since no one uses it anymore. Photoshop I have to run in Wine because GIMP is terrible.

One learning curve I had was GCC, but CMake has made that a breeze now.

The biggest learning curve was the Desktop Environment. I hopped around until I found one I liked, which ended up being Mate. I know how to use it now, I even changed it to look like Windows 98 for awhile last year, currently made it look like the Ubuntu Human theme just because I could.

The one thing though I found to be a major productivity boost was the terminal. I never realized how unproductive having several windows open made me in recent years. Since almost everything in the Linux world can be done in the terminal, I just use that with Tmux so I can have multiple virtual windows in just one terminal.

> Do you feel you’ve been able to get Linux up to a level of productivity that more or less matches what you had achieved with Windows?

For most things yes. Depends on the task. Somethings will always be more efficient on Windows than Linux, and vice versa. For me, anything in a terminal window is always much faster/productive on Linux than the Windows Console. Things like Ctrl+Z (Pause foreground application and put it in the background) in the Linux Terminal really shows how powerful it is compared to Windows.

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Elly, Noel Carboni

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I use CMD windows quite a lot. I’ve augmented the command language with tools from the GnuWin32 Toolkit forever, so pipelining command line filters won’t be foreign to me.

Thanks to everyone for their insights.

I believe I need to brave the waters and start to get familiar with Linux in a guest VM on my Windows system first, then consider switching things around.

-Noel

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Noel:  I have a couple of observations that may assist you.

DrBonzo’s post #154824 is a good one for his description of playing Midi files.  I have found challenges with some files over the different distro tests I have done over the past years.  Switching a distro can make it easier (or harder) to find solutions.  Additionally, you may have to dig a bit before you solve the question.  After the solution, you are fine, until the next one.  This should not be a deterrent though and unlike Windows, the live media testing, especially since a USB 3.0 image is far better than testing from a Live CD or DVD, and should reveal many of the potential gotchas.  It also allows you to test different distros and desktops rapidly and on many machines.

I did a software inventory in prep for a Linux PC build I was planning for last year.  (Build delayed)  I then tried to accomplish many of my routine Windows tasks under various Linux distros on USB sticks.  For me the issues of concern were image editing (I do NOT like GIMP if I have another alternative) and GPS mapping with my Garmin auto GPS and handheld, plus scanning and gaming..

Gaming can be a big issue for many Windows users, but with Steam games getting more and more Linux options it is better than even 2 years ago – IF, and a big IF, your favorites are available in Linux.  You keep hearing that we are on the cusp of a great leap in Linux gaming, but realistically, for the big high performance games and studios, the numbers do not offer a great return on investment.  For me, many of my favorites are older classics that are now available on Linux or have gone open source.  Doing a personal survey and testing should at minimum provide you with a diagram of what could be problematic.

I also want to touch upon an issue that has not been discussed too much and that is the concept of productivity and your audience.  Since my retirement I have far more flexibility as I do not have to produce work product that is seamless with a Windows version, uses corporate or government templates in Word and Excel or uses a lot of customized technical or proprietary software.  Linux now is an easier reach due to not having to please a boss, be compatible with installed IT infrastructure or provide accessible documents to customer, clients, or editors across varying OS and connectivity options.  However, in that time, Linux and its programs and productivity suites have also gotten much more intuitive and easier to use and have become move compatible with the standard MS offerings.

For issues with hardware and specifically GPU performance, I would suggest you review material on http://phoronix.com.  There are real benefits to be had by going with one GPU chip brand over another depending on what you want to achieve.

I was a big Ubuntu fan and still use it on one machine.  I now really like Mint in either the Mate or Cinnamon flavors.  My best looking desktop was when I tested LXLE, but recent distros have been disappointing (still look great) and been buggy on my configurations.  ZorinOS and ElementaryOS have looked promising, but Mint is very mature and a truely easy install.

Hope this helps, and have fun.

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HiFlyer, Elly, Cascadian

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I especially appreciate your comment on working well with others. At least that is how I think about my continuing hangup. Satisfying me is easier than satisfying others.

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Essentially, there’s not much difference between Linux and Windows, for me.  I’ve got both on my desktop and my netbook.  My wife still uses the Windows side of the computer, while I typically stay on the Linux side.  Whichever side it happens to be booted into, I find I don’t usually have a good reason to switch over to the other.  I’m a basic user, with no special needs, but I’ll make a comparison, by usage (Using Windows 7 and Linux Mint Cinnamon):

Online video

With a capable desktop, there’s no difference in watching YouTube, but with the limited resources of a netbook, Google Chrome is the only browser that shows videos correctly in Windows, and Firefox is the only browser that shows videos correctly in Linux.  I don’t know why.

Basic games

I’m not a heavy gamer, but I find that browser-based games work the same in both, and windows-based installed games have all (so far) worked just as well in Linux, using WINE.  The old WINE that comes pre-installed must be completely removed with all associated components, and an up-to-date version must be installed directly from Wine HQ.

Office software

I’ve been using open-source office software on Windows, already, and I find that the open-source software that came with Mint operates very similarly.

Drawing

I was using GIMP on Windows (I like it, but I have never used Photoshop, either), and GIMP for Linux seems indistinguishable.

Internet browsing

No difference.  I use Chrome on both.  The settings transfer smoothly from one to the other.

Printing

The old printer that I have is slow on Linux and occasionally hangs.  This is one of the bigger issues with Linux.  It means that my next printer is going to have to be one specifically chosen for Linux compatibility.  It can be done, but the implications are significant.

Home networking

Setting up multiple home computers to share information freely over the network is a breeze with Windows.  Not so much with Linux.  Mint comes installed with Samba, which enables it to communicate with a Windows computer, but getting it to work is not intuitive.  The GUI is baked into Mint, but I didn’t realize this, at first.  Other GUIs in the repository are all old and do nothing but corrupt the Samba configuration file.  Making two Linux computers talk to each other was a totally different process.  I had to install the SSH server on each, first.  Overall, once the connection is made, one Linux computer can be used to explore another without restraint, regardless of sharing options.  Two Windows computers only explore each other’s shared folders, it seems.

Other

One other thing worth mentioning is that the two systems have a different approach toward defaults.  Linux assumes nothing, and Windows tries to second-guess you.  In Linux, the DVD playback has the disinterlace set to nothing.  This makes the image bad until you manually set the default to something like “median.”  If you set the disinterlace to median without changing the default, it doesn’t assume you want the same thing next time.  Similarly, when I plug an HDMI cable into a Windows computer it assumes I want the sound sent through the cable, as well as the video.  Linux assumes nothing.  The sound doesn’t go through any connection until you tell it to, and it doesn’t return to the former after the cable is unplugged until you say so.

The positive side for Linux is that when downloading content from the internet, it assumes no default, either.  I’ve been lately hunting down and killing several years’ worth of downloaded items in Windows that managed to get saved in obscure and unlikely places, because Windows made wild assumptions about where they should go.

Well, I’ve got to go, but that’s the gist of it, for now.

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Cascadian, Elly

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Noel:

At this point, I have been able to get just about everything I need, or its equivalent, running in Linux. The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that I haven’t been able to do in Linux is Microsoft Movie Maker. For these programs, I have VMWare Workstation Player, with Windows 8.1 (32-bit) installed in a VM. I went into the VMWare settings and shared my hard drive with the VM, so everything works great. Running in the VM is a bit slow, but understandable, since I only have 4 GB of RAM installed in my computer. I’m sure that if I had 8 GB or more, I wouldn’t even notice that I was running Windows in a VM.

Microsoft Office was the big program I had to find an alternative for. For that I use Libre Office. After using Libre Office for several months, I am almost as familiar with it as with MS Office. And it does everything I need. Again, though, I could install MS Office in the Windows 8.1 VM if I wanted to.

Here is some of the really good software I use in Linux Mint:
* VLC media player for watching videos of every sort. Works like a champ.
* Thunderbird – comes pre-installed, works like a champ.
* The latest Firefox.
* Libre Office – alternative to Microsoft Office.
* Audacity – for editing audio files.
* Handbrake – for importing the contents of a DVD into Linux, so that I can edit it.
* XFBurn – for burning CDs and DVDs.
* Samba – for sharing one or more of the hard drives in a Linux computer. (You don’t need to install anything on the computers which will access the shared drive.)
* VMWare Workstation Player – to set up virtual machines.

PDF functionality is built into Linux Mint (and I suppose other Linux distros). Anytime you want to print something, you can print to PDF as an option.

There is one nut I haven’t been able to crack in this setup. I have found Canon printers to be difficult to install straight up as wireless network printers. However, this hasn’t been a problem, because the Canon install program allows you to plug the printer in with a USB cable so that the router can find it that way. Once the router has found it, you unplug the USB cable, and it’s a wireless network printer from that point forward. And once you have made that first connection to the router, adding the Canon as a printer in Linux Mint is trivial. But there is no such “USB to set up a network connection” functionality in the Linux version of the Canon printer software. And I haven’t been able to get the printer’s initial network connection accomplished without using the USB cable method.

The problem comes in when you don’t have a Windows machine to do the first connection. I tried connecting my Canon Selphy printer to my Linux machine, but I couldn’t do it. So I opened the Windows 8.1 VM to install it there, but it couldn’t find the Selphy! I ended up using it as a USB printer off of the VM; I never could get it to work from Linux, nor as a network printer from the VM. I probably could do direct print to the printer, rather than setting it up as a standard network printer, but there’s no Linux software for the Canon Selphy.

Another issue which was a real problem, but which I finally solved, was scanning from Linux. You could probably figure it out, but there are a huge number of Linux users who haven’t been able to figure it out. So for a while, I scanned from my Windows 8.1 VM. Then I found the Linux scanner software on a Canon Asia (Thailand, I think) website. I downloaded it and PRECISELY followed the install instruction, and BINGO! In Linux Mint, I am limited to running the command line program that comes with the Canon software; but that isn’t a problem, because I created a shortcut for the executable, and now all I have to do is click on the shortcut, and I am scanning. The scanner program isn’t a function-rich as you might want, but it does a good job.

As long as you have a Windows 8.1 VM installed, you are ready to make the switch to Linux Mint or some other distro of Linux. And you will love the feeling you get everytime you load the VM — Windows is the step-child, not the main OS!

Do a backup first, before taking the plunge. You can always get back to Windows by restoring the backup.

Jim

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Bill C., Cascadian, Elly, geekdom

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