Problem Dual Booting Win 7 & 8+

Topic

New Reply

I had problems booting either Win 7 or Win 8.

I reinstalled Win 7 successfully, and activated and installed all applicable Windows Updates. I also did some selective copying and pasting from the last backup I made before the boot problems started.

With regard to Win 8, I restored that to the same drive it was on before, using Macrium Reflect, which naturally formatted the disk before restoration. However, if I try to boot Win 8 I am told “Windows can’t verify the digital signature for the file WindowsSystem32winload.exe. To start without this file temporarily disable driver signature enforcement”

After reinstalling Win 7 Win 8 did not show up on the boot screen, but it did after I restored Win 8 from the backup.

I can find the file in the Macrium backup, but the properties of the existing file in System32 and the one in the backup are identical, including the hash sums, so replacing the existing file with a copy of the backed up version would seem to be pointless.

Help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and regards,
Roy

Reply | Quote

Replies

Roy, I think this is what happened.

When you originally installed Win 8 as a dual boot with Win 7, the Win 8 boot loader took over for the Win 7 boot loader. In this way you could see both Win 7 and Win 8. When you subsequently reinstalled Win 7, it’s boot loader took over again. Win 7 does not recognize the newer File System of Win 8 as a valid OS (I believe I read this). Just restoring the Win 8 partition does not restore the Win 8 boot loader.

I believe in your scenario you would have to start anew, reinstalling Win 7 (which you have already done) then reinstalling Win 8. You can then grab the stuff you need from the Win 8 Image just as you did when you reinstalled Win 7.

If you had instead created an image of Win 7/Win 8 dual boot initially, then simply restore the Win 7 image you would have been fine, but reinstalling Win 7 interrupted the integrity of the dual boot. When I was dual booting, I imaged the entire HD at least once, and often more than that. Then on subsequent images if I wished to save time I would image just a particular OS depending on what the reason for creating a new image was. If I had made changes to both OSs then I would include both in the new image.

Reply | Quote

Win 7 does not recognize the newer File System of Win 8 as a valid OS (I believe I read this). Just restoring the Win 8 partition does not restore the Win 8 boot loader.

That is not true. I dual boot Windows 7 with Windows 8, but I use the Windows 7 boot loader (don’t like the extra contortions the Windows 8 boot loader goes through). The Windows 8 file system is NTFS, just like Windows 7. I do the same with my laptop, and it is UEFI/GPT.

The route to go would have been to use the free version of Easy BCD after the Windows 7 reinstall, and simply add the existing Windows 8 installation to the Windows 7 boot loader. Here’s a video of the Windows 7 loader launching Windows 8:

Windows 7 Boot Menu.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

bbearren and Ted, firstly I forgot to mention that when I restored Win 8 with Macrium Reflect, just before the process started I was asked whether I wanted to use an option to do with the MBR (I can’t remember exactly what it said) and I accepted that. Maybe that was the cause of the Win 8 boot problem. At any rate , I wouldn’t use that option again-I learn from my mistakes.

Ted, how do you include 2 drives in the same image?

bbearren, I have Easy BCD-is it too late to use it in the manner you describe? If not, could you please tell me exactly how to do it.

Please advise further.

Thanks and regards,
Roy

Reply | Quote

Using Easy BCD is quite simple.

32043-EasyBCD

This shows the main screen. To add another OS choose the Add New Entry tab.

34146-EasyBCD

Reply | Quote

I do not know the exact procedure for Macrium Reflect, but in Acronis when I choose the source drives, I can put a check mark in one or the other, or BOTH. If I choose both then both partitions will be included in the Image. When I was dual booting Win 7, Win 8 with my data partition, I put a check mark in all 3.

When you restore, you can choose which OS to restore, and where to restore it. You have to be careful here that your partitions are labeled such that you can easily distinguish between them. After all you don’t want to restore Win 7 in the Win 8 partition.

34145-Acronis

I always label my partitions with the OS installed there.

Reply | Quote

Ted, thanks a lot, particularly for the comment about labels. I will try the Easy BCD add new entry method for future reference, but on reflection I think I will reinstall Win 8 anyway.

Regarding backing up 2 drives with one image, I don’t think you can do that with Macrium, but I will ask them.

Thanks again,

Regards,
Roy

Reply | Quote

Regarding backing up 2 drives with one image, I don’t think you can do that with Macrium, but I will ask them.

Roy,

Hello… I use Macrium Reflect both Paid (Pro) and Free versions .. .I’m not sure if you’re asking about 2 separate, hard drives or two partitions.
If it’s two (or more ) partitions …”No Problemo” You just select (check box) the ones you want to Image. …or you could just do a “Clone” of the entire Hard Drive… :cheers: Regards Fred

Reply | Quote

Regarding backing up 2 drives with one image, I don’t think you can do that with Macrium, but I will ask them.

Thanks again,

Regards,
Roy

Roy,

I do this all the time, you just tell it to image the drive and it’s done. This works both from with in windows and also booting from the Windows PE Recovery media {this is how I do it most often but recent tests backing up to my NAS drive from within within windows seem to work just fine also}. I do this on both my desktop Win 7/8 and my laptop Win 7/7 w/office 2003/2010.
34179-Macrium-Dual-Boot
HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Sorry, I do not know about Macrium Reflect. In Acronis I can Image and Restore any or all Partitions on a HD. I wonder if that is something you would need the paid edition of Macrium Reflect for. Perhaps someone who uses Macrium Reflect can answer that question.

Reply | Quote

Yes system backup in the case of imaging software might only mean the partition recognized as the active operating system partition. In ToDo it’s that way, what might seem reversed in that system means just the OS partition and partition backup means any partition or groups of partitions including whole disks. So if I want to back up a dual boot system I choose disk/partition backup, ironically, not system backup. :huh:

Reply | Quote

I wonder if the paid versions of Macrium and ToDo would include the whole disk option. When I was dual booting with a data partition (total of 3 partitions on the HD) Acronis also had an option called (I believe) whole disk backup, or something like that. This option would Image everything including OS partitions, Data Partitions, Windows reserved partitions, Recovery partitions, etc. I generally did not use this option because it takes more time. After getting a whole disk Image once, I would only Image the partition I was changing, unless both OSs had major changes, then I would Image the whole disk once again.

Reply | Quote

With Acronis, you can also back up multiple disks in one image.

Jerry

Reply | Quote

Thanks for that info Jerry. Since I do not have multiple disks I did not know that. Good to know for future reference.

Reply | Quote

I used to backup both my OS and data disks in one differential image. After the first backup, the differentials didnt take too much time or space. On restore you can choose to restore one or both disks as well as browse foor individual files.

Jerry

Reply | Quote

Fred, regarding your post #11 I have the Pro version and now realize I can back up multiple disks in one image.

I have now successfully reinstalled Win 8. I have a couple of minor queries and will start new threads for them.

Thanks for all the replies.

Regards,
Roy

Reply | Quote

Roy,

Once you get this working you’ll want a copy of Neo Tech’siReboot. This little tray icon makes it very east to reboot into the desired O/S and it’s free for personal use. HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

RG, thanks. I have got it working now and I already had iReboot.

Regards,
Roy

Reply | Quote

EasyBCD is recommended in this thread for adding Windows 7/8 loader.
Does this work on UEFI/GPT or just BIOS/MBR ?

Is EasyBCD really UEFI aware ? Which version ?

Reply | Quote

EasyBCD is recommended in this thread for adding Windows 7/8 loader.
Does this work on UEFI/GPT or just BIOS/MBR ?

Is EasyBCD really UEFI aware ? Which version ?

2.02 is UEFI aware, and there is a new version available, but I haven’t downloaded or installed it. I have 2.02 on my laptop, it’s UEFI, and EasyBCD sees the efi loader. I dual boot 7/8, but use the Windows 7 loader.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

2.02 is UEFI aware, and there is a new version available, but I haven’t downloaded or installed it. I have 2.02 on my laptop, it’s UEFI, and EasyBCD sees the efi loader. I dual boot 7/8, but use the Windows 7 loader.

Why didn’t you answer my question ?
Can EasyBCD add a loader for Windows 7/8 on UEFI/GPT ?

It is not enough to “see” but has to CREATE.

Latest version of EasyBCD is NOT UEFI aware and compromises the boot menu in Windows 8 – there are many threads stating this, just google.

Reply | Quote

Why didn’t you answer my question ?
Can EasyBCD add a loader for Windows 7/8 on UEFI/GPT ?

I did answer your question.

EasyBCD is recommended in this thread for adding Windows 7/8 loader.
Does this work on UEFI/GPT or just BIOS/MBR ?

Is EasyBCD really UEFI aware ? Which version ?

2.02 is UEFI aware, and there is a new version available, but I haven’t downloaded or installed it.

[/SIZE] [/FONT]

It is not enough to “see” but has to CREATE.

I have 2.02 on my laptop, it’s UEFI, and EasyBCD sees the efi loader. I dual boot 7/8, but use the Windows 7 loader.

Latest version of EasyBCD is NOT UEFI aware and compromises the boot menu in Windows 8 – there are many threads stating this, just google.

there is a new version available, but I haven’t downloaded or installed it.

[/SIZE] [/FONT]
I believe that I made it clear that I use version 2.02 on a UEFI/GPT laptop, that I haven’t downloaded or installed the latest version, and that I use the Windows 7 loader, not the Windows 8 loader.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

bbearren,
please answer with simple yes or no following questions:

1. Can EasyBCD create loader object in BCD for Windows 7/8 installed on system with UEFI firmware and GPT style disk ?
2. Have you ever created an UEFI loader object using EasyBCD ?
3. Do you know the difference between Windows BCD loader objects for UEFI/GPT and BIOS/MBR ?

Reply | Quote

bbearren,
please answer with simple yes or no following questions:

1. Can EasyBCD create loader object in BCD for Windows 7/8 installed on system with UEFI firmware and GPT style disk ?

Yes. *

2. Have you ever created an UEFI loader object using EasyBCD ?

Yes. *

3. Do you know the difference between Windows BCD loader objects for UEFI/GPT and BIOS/MBR ?

Yes.

*EasyBCD gets everything correct except for winload.exe. This needs to be edited to winload.efi. For the editing, I use Visual BCD. It’s been a while, so in the interest of gettin’ it right, I deleted my Windows 8 loader using EasyBCD and then recreated it. That’s when I remembered using Visual BCD for the editing.

That is the only difficulty for me (not all that difficult; change “xe” to “fi” and it boots). YMMV.

Oh, and I still use the Windows 7 bootmgr. I don’t like the extra contortions the Windows 8 bootmgr goes through, and I don’t use the fast boot feature of Windows 8.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

*EasyBCD gets everything correct except for winload.exe. This needs to be edited to winload.efi. For the editing, I use Visual BCD.

Thank you answering my questions.
Your “Yes. *” is a clear NO !
The only difference between a Windows 7 BIOS loader and a Windows 7 UEFI loader IS path element !
EasyBCD clearly fails to create path=Windowssystem32winload.efi !
You stated that you used another BCD editor for correcting path element.

EasyBCD is NOT capable of creating an UEFI loader !

Windows 8 is another story !
EasyBCD does not know about new elements “IsolatedExecutionContext”, “AllowedInMemorySettings” and “BootMenuPolicy”.
BootMenuPolicy is the element where you set text or “metro” style boot menu.

So EasyBCD is not Windows 8 ready and not UEFI capable !

And there is another story with EasyBCD.
Neosmart is distributing the file “easyldr” as its own product.
BUT easyldr is a renamed version of “ntldr” – a Microsoft product !!!
THIS IS CLEAR COPYRIGHT VIOLATION !
The copyright string in easyldr(=ntldr) is:

S t r i n g F i l e I n f o Ä 0 4 0 9 0 4 B 0 L C o m p a n y N a m e M i c r o s o f t C o r p o r a t i o n @ F i l e D e s c r i p t i o n B o o t L o a d e r r ) F i l e V e r s i o n 5 . 2 . 3 7 9 0 . 2 8 2 5 ( s r v 0 3 _ s p 2 _ r c . 0 6 1 1 0 3 – 1 3 0 3 ) :
I n t e r n a l N a m e o s l o a d e r . e x e € . L e g a l C o p y r i g h t © M i c r o s o f t C o r p o r a t i o n . A l l r i g h t s r e s e r v e d . B
O r i g i n a l F i l e n a m e o s l o a d e r . e x e j % P r o d u c t N a m e M i c r o s o f t ® W i n d o w s ® O p e r a t i n g S y s t e m @ P r o d u c t V e r s i o n 5 . 2 . 3 7 9 0 . 2 8 2 5

I would not recommend a tool which is disguising (renaming) a Microsoft tool and pretending it is its own product.
There should be at least some copyright notice in EULA !

There are other legal issues with EasyBCD not complying to Free Software Foundation GPL Copyright for grub4dos.

EasyBCD is distributed as a signed product by Neosmart Ltd so the copyright violations are clearly made by Neosmart and the guys there.

Reply | Quote

Thank you answering my questions.
Your “Yes. *” is a clear NO !
The only difference between a Windows 7 BIOS loader and a Windows 7 UEFI loader IS path element !
EasyBCD clearly fails to create path=Windowssystem32winload.efi !
You stated that you used another BCD editor for correcting path element.

I thought I made it quite clear that the only difference is “xe” instead of “fi”. (The two files are in the same WindowsSystem32 folder, in close proximity.)

I also thought I made it quite clear that I dual boot Windows 7/8 on my UEFI/GPT laptop and that I don’t use the Windows 8 bootmgr, I use the Windows 7 bootmgr.

2.02 is UEFI aware, and there is a new version available, but I haven’t downloaded or installed it. I have 2.02 on my laptop, it’s UEFI, and EasyBCD sees the efi loader. I dual boot 7/8, but use the Windows 7 loader. [/FONT][/QUOTE]

I did answer your question.

I believe that I made it clear that I use version 2.02 on a UEFI/GPT laptop, that I haven’t downloaded or installed the latest version, and that I use the Windows 7 loader, not the Windows 8 loader.

Oh, and I still use the Windows 7 bootmgr. I don’t like the extra contortions the Windows 8 bootmgr goes through, and I don’t use the fast boot feature of Windows 8.

I would think this also makes it clear that I don’t use or see the Windows 8 boot menu.

I would suggest that your argument is with someone else, since I am very plainly speaking only of the Windows 7 UEFI loader.[/FONT][/SIZE]

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

Sorry, I thought the thread is about dual-booting Windows 7 & 8 😉

It is clearly impossible to boot Windows 8 using Windows 7 boot loader / manager 😉

You can put winload.exe and winload.efi as close as you want but they are two different files 😉

And yes, EasyBCD CANNOT be used for creating an UEFI loader, you need another UEFI capable BCD editor like “bcdedit” or “Visual BCD Editor” as you already stated it.

I thank you for making this clear.

Reply | Quote

Sorry, I thought the thread is about dual-booting Windows 7 & 8 😉

It is, and I do, on two machines.

It is clearly impossible to boot Windows 8 using Windows 7 boot loader / manager 😉

Actually, it clearly is possible, as I do, on two machines, boot Windows 8 from the Windows 7 boot menu. They say a picture is worth a thousand words. Here’s a video. Sorry, but you’re clearly wrong.

You can put winload.exe and winload.efi as close as you want but they are two different files 😉

I don’t see any mention anywhere in the thread intimating that they are the same. I only stated that they are in the same folder, not that they are the same.

And yes, EasyBCD CANNOT be used for creating an UEFI loader, you need another UEFI capable BCD editor like “bcdedit” or “Visual BCD Editor” as you already stated it.

Actually, an editor doesn’t even need to be UEFI aware in order to edit a single file extension; it merely needs the ability to open a BCD store for editing.

I thank you for making this clear.

Apparently it isn’t at all clear to you, since you are incorrect on every point in this post, with the exception of your statement that winload.exe and winload.efi are two different files. But then, no one has said that they aren’t.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote

bbearren,

You are completely right that EasyBCD CANNOT create an UEFI loader and you need ANOTHER BCD EDITOR !
The editors able to do this are Microsoft command line bcdedit utility and Visual BCD Editor.
You can name other editors if you like.

But you have to mention to users seeking help that:
1. Current version of EasyBCD is NOT able to create an UEFI loader for Windows 7 or Windows 8.
2. Current version of EasyBCD compromizes graphical Windows 8 boot menu !
as you proved in this thread that you know these facts !!!

Leave the choice to the user if he wants or not a graphical boot menu.
Using EasyBCD DESTROYS the choice given by Microsoft to use either graphical or text boot menu.
Do you understand this ?

Reply | Quote

The OP’s system is BIOS/MBR. There are few in these forums dual booting UEFI/GPT. Those who are tend to be more experienced users. And there are a number of ways to edit the Boot Configuration Data Store, even from outside Windows.

I happen to prefer the Windows 7 boot menu, whether in BIOS/MBR or UEFI/GPT. We all have the option of doing things our own way.

As for the OP, 3 days ago (just over 8 hours before your first post in the thread) he posted

RG, thanks. I have got it working now and I already had iReboot.

Regards,
Roy

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

Reply | Quote