Re-examining Dropbox and its alternatives

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	TOP STORY Re-examining Dropbox and its alternatives
	By Woody Leonhard Recent revelations about privacy concerns with Dropbox have led many people — including me — to think about changing my practices regarding online file-storage and -synchronization providers. If you use Dropbox or some other cloud storage and sync program, let me explain what you do — and don’t — need to be concerned about. And what you can do to sleep better at night.

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The full text of this column is posted at WindowsSecrets.com/top-story/Re-examining-Dropbox-and-its-alternatives/ (opens in a new window/tab).

Columnists typically cannot reply to comments here, but do incorporate the best tips into future columns.[/td]

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Too bad! I knew it was too good to be true. As noted in original article, Dropbox is incredibly useful. Sad to say I DO use it for confidential info but will now have to encrypt it although I find the mobile uses of Dropbox significantly useful which this article implies won’t work with encryption.

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I’ve been using Dropbox happily since the beta. However, I am also delighted with SugarSync, which offers 5 GB storage for a free account, and is much more flexible than Dropbox (for example, you can sync any folders you want, and can sync different folders on different devices). Drawbacks include allowing only two devices on a free account, and uploads seem to be a good deal slower than Dropbox. Can you examine and report on SugarSync’s security policies?

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Can FTP be used as an alternative? I have plenty of space on my website and could easily provide my clients an ftp account and private directory for storing their (encrypted backups). I suppose most companies and individual could do likewise with nominal cost using their own web host’s facilities. I am not sure though that there is a reputable ftp deamon that they could use to automatically load files. Do you know of one?

-Dan

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I just found an example of how to automate send files to an ftp site with Windows’ built-in ftp client.
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/windows/how-to-automate-ftp-uploads-from-the-windows-command-line/
I just tried it and it works on Windows 7 64-bit. With this, I can set up an encrypted program to create a temporary batch file to send a file or a bunch of files to the ftp site automatically. My program can then delete the temp batch file afterwards so the ftp account password is not stored unprotected. I already wrote a program to perform the backup, so I will just add a little bit to the end to create/execute the batch ftpput file.
-Dan

Can FTP be used as an alternative? I have plenty of space on my website and could easily provide my clients an ftp account and private directory for storing their (encrypted backups). I suppose most companies and individual could do likewise with nominal cost using their own web host’s facilities. I am not sure though that there is a reputable ftp deamon that they could use to automatically load files. Do you know of one?

-Dan

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Thanks for the really useful article. I have a question, though. You say that “the only way Dropbox could deduplicate files or store the deltas is if the Dropbox system can get at the contents of your files” and that SpiderOak cannot get at the contents of my files, yet SpiderOak makes the same space-efficiency claims as Dropbox. From their “Nuts and Bolts” page (https://spideroak.com/engineering_matters#true_privacy): “Even though your historical versions are encrypted and only stored on the server, SpiderOak detects the similarity between those historical versions and your new versions – only saving the parts that actually changed.” What is the true story here?

Thanks,

Steve

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Any anybody look at Evernote? Is it a better alternative to Dropbox? I know it doesn’t have as much file capacity as Dropbox but I think they absolutely have security in mind when they design their system. Here is a page from their blog in 2008

http://blog.evernote.com/2008/04/15/evernote-privacy-and-security/

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The moral of the story is that the DropBox folks lied to everybody, hoping to suck in a big user population (Facebook anybody?) Of course, DropBox (and its lookalike friends) will be the next target of the recording and movie industry associations, with almost absolute proof in hand that you are a violator (look, it’s YOUR userid and password and you performed these actions with our copyrighted files, now PAY UP and/or go to jail!) No need for lawsuits, just call homeland security (the association police) and they will take care of everything. And ebooks will be right there with audio and video files as well as electronic news and other content. And don’t even think about posting any web links (URLs) in the shared DropBox area as many web based entities now consider that to be a copyright violation and unlicensed/unauthorized usage. You thought these tools were for your ease of use and convenience?

By the way, it is clear that the shared storage area is on some server farm controlled by DropBox. How long before they invoke the “all your data are belong to us” rule…oh, wait, that is already the case since they are reading and changing your files, with nothing to stop them from using your files and content (their terms of service is to control you, not them; remember Google desktop). Further, it is not beyond the realm of imagination that they already do have access, or will make use of access, to your computer for purposes above and beyond just sharing the files you have “given” to them. Others have also attempted “all your computer are belong to us” as well. Is DropBox just a more socially acceptable form of spyware?

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Although SpiderOak is cool – I tried it out a few monthes ago – I’d like to recommend another alternative: wuala.
wuala also encrypts the files BEFORE they’re uploaded to the server and stores the files in chunks distributed all over the net.

It also has a very cool integration into the os, so you can have a local drive automatically used as a cloud-drive, and it has cool tools like backup and sync and sharing.

see: http://www.wuala.com/

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You say that if my brother and I have separate accounts, each with their own username and password, Dropbox will not allow us to upload copies of the same picture. There must be more to this than you have told us. Certainly Dropbox does not enforce this no duplicate policy across all their millions of accounts. These two “independent” accounts must be linked together in some way you have not identified in the column.

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The illusion a person is not at risk because they have “nothing to hide” is naive. Such a premise ignores a profound ruling by the Supreme Court. “Miranda Rights” protect the innocent from themselves. Police and governments can and will manipulate people into making statements which are incriminating. Such a reality is why any intelligent attorney advises their client to say NOTHING. Period.

Here’s where it gets slippery for life in general as well as in the cloud. A person being accused/arrested has zero knowledge of the actual reason(s) they’re being taken into custody nor do they have any clue what allegations may have been made against them. Most concerning, justice has nothing to do with reality. Accordingly, say nothing which might be used against you.

No one can know with certainty how a future algorithm might be coded to data mine nor what fragments of your information may be misconstrued. Ipso facto, the digital equivalent of Miranda is encryption. ‘Encrypt everything’ is equal to ‘say nothing which might incriminate you’.

That Dropbox may or may not have knowingly misled to gain customers is interesting. That the consumer remains deluded about actual security in the cloud is criminal. Any vendor who assures you a cloud repository for anything is safe is either stupid or a liar.

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You say that if my brother and I have separate accounts, each with their own username and password, Dropbox will not allow us to upload copies of the same picture. There must be more to this than you have told us. Certainly Dropbox does not enforce this no duplicate policy across all their millions of accounts. These two “independent” accounts must be linked together in some way you have not identified in the column.

What they’re doing is called deduplication: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Data_deduplication. It’s not a matter of enforcing a policy, it’s just the way that they’re doing data storage. Basically when you upload a picture of that funny cat you found online it looks at the metadeta and checks to see if anybody else has uploaded the same picture. If somebody has then it doesn’t re-upload the picture. Instead, it just notes in their systems that your account now has access to that file.

When you delete the file it doesn’t actually delete it if other people have “uploaded” the same file. Instead, it just removes the link between your account and that file.

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ADrive offers 50GB of free storage for individual non commercial use. This is much more than either Dropbox or SpiderOak. The downside is that the free service does not use ftp.

http://www.adrive.com/static/storageplans_basic

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:o:
Gee wizards, folks, disks are really cheap and local cloning and backups are quick, easy, and reliable. Why would you want to save your files in the Cloud, especially with a free service, subject to somebody else’s management, Internet congestion, and loss of privacy?

If you gotta share stuff, then get yourself a web server, for goodness sake! :huh:

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Why use the Cloud in the first place?

Gee wizards, folks, disks are really cheap and local cloning and backups are quick, easy, and reliable. Why would you want to save your files in the Cloud, especially with a free service, subject to somebody else’s management, Internet congestion, and loss of privacy?

If you gotta share stuff, then get yourself a web server, for goodness sake! :huh:

Cloud storage is useful for offsite backup. It’s true that you can back up on a device and take the device offsite, but this is a hassle and therefore doesn’t happen as often as it should. Or you need an expensive courier service. So free and paid cloud services using shared media accessible to the service provider’s employees are a bargain — as long as you take steps to protect your data.

You might be kidding about a web site. Most affordable web accounts are on shared servers hosting hundreds of sites, none of which are encrypted. Basic authentication you apply to folders on a web server usually sends the password in the clear. Setting up SSL on shared hosting can be pricey (for the supported vendors) or technically complicated (if you do it yourself). And maintaining your own personal web server open to the web is fraught with security issues. So yes, web servers are good for sharing files, but not for easily sharing files securely. Hence the popularity of Dropbox and similar services.

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Hi,

I am using Windows Live Mesh since it was first Live Mesh Beta. How does it compare to Dropbox or SpiderOak?

Regards,
Fernando

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You gave a good rundown on DropBox.

What are the thoughts on Yahoo MyDrive?

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Another alternative to DropBox and other cloud storage/sync services is NAS (network-attached storage) with internet access. I’ve avoided using Dropbox and its competitors for security reasons; I only store files that I don’t mind others seeing on MediaFire.com. That service allows unlimited sharing and downloads, even though it is plagued by ads shown to those who want to download the files.

Recently, I have purchased a Buffalo CloudStor Pro ($254, free shipping at Amazon) which gives me 2TB of storage. Here’s why I’m so tickled with it: (a) I own the device – it sits in my office attached to my router. (b) It appears on my network as a networked hard drive, so all my computers can access it at network (not internet) speeds. (c) I can access shared files from anywhere, such as when I’m on the road, by logging in to my account through the free PogoPlug services. (d) I can share any single folder or file on that drive with anyone I choose. They can download without creating an account, but they can also upload if they create a free account. (e) I can delete anyone’s access at any time. (f) If I am ever concerned about security, I can change the passwords on my account, or simply unplug the drive.

With 2TB of storage for a one-time cost, no additional monthy fees, and the ability to add another hard drive inside the unit – this seems to me to be a much better choice than DropBox.

David in Mississippi

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@vroberts –

You misunderstood, or I didn’t explain it very well. Dropbox deduplicates by not uploading the second copy of a given file. Instead, it keeps track of where the data’s stored. You don’t even know that it happened.

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SpiderOak offers mobile access (Android, iOS)

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First, that any of these sync programs have to access their folder on your computer only makes sense. But they should be accessing anything else.

I use a sync program Idrivesync, which after inquiring was told there was no way you could even set it to access anything else. The other thing was how they addressed the security issue, and they are very up front. You set a Username and Password for the site. IF that is all you do then they can recover them for you which means specifically they could also access your data. However they also give you the option of setting up an encrypt key. I use a strong one from random characters. When you do this they warn you, that using a key on your account means if you loose it you are out of luck. They can’t help you. Also there is no option to change the key, other then deleting the account. Logging into the website, just allows you to see the file names, but no acccess at all without the key.

I am very comfortable with that appoach. The website (http://www.idrivesync.com) lists the service as a beta, but it has been running trouble free for me on all four of my machines.

Pete

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With all due respect, anyone who believes anything they put in the “cloud” is secure is just not paying attention to the news. Besides Sony et. al. that Woody references in his column, just read the Washington Post this morning and yesterday- yesterday’s article touted that the Federal Government was going to save “billions” by moving their email from Exchange to GMail; then read this morning’s Post to see that GMail accounts have been hacked and compromised, including “high ranking Government officials” accounts. DUH!!!

Yes I use Dropbox and yes I encrypt specific business-related files if they are sensitive but for the most part I put nothing there that is private, corporate confidential, or anything I wouldn’t want to get into someone elses hands. That is why I carry (around my neck on a lanyard (my kids call it my “bling”) an encrypted USB drive. The whole drive is encrypted with TrueCrypt and it is copied at the end of each day to my external drive on my work computer.

Safe computing is in the hands of those using it and to assume anything in the ether is secure is just not thinking.

steve

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Excellent breakdown of DropBox.

As far as I am concerned they just lied in their FAQ. The only reason I used them was because their FAQ clearly stated that they didn’t have access to your files, and it strongly implied that you held the keys, not them. Their blogs may have said differently, but people aren’t going to go read all of their blogs for the last 3 years just to make sure it doesn’t contradict their FAQ.

Many people may not be storing confidential data in their DropBox account, but that doesn’t mean there’s nothing to worry about. School essays, papers, company documents and emails, and a host of other things that we may not think of as confidential can still reveal a lot of proprietary or confidential data. This data can be used for anything from spear phishing to outright industrial espionage.

I was using DropBox to sync my Google two-step verification codes and my KeePass database to my Android. Needless to say, I was beyond *issed when I found out what they were doing. Even if they’re ethical that data is still a target for hackers. And, now that it’s public, they’re even more of a target.

I’m currently checking out Wuala. Unfortunately the Web-based app and the mobile version isn’t as smooth as DropBox yet, but it shows a lot of promise. And, best of all, you really hold the keys, not them.

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I have not had the time to read all of the posts here, will get there later, it seems I am not the only one that has dual-noias (also known as ‘paranoia’) nor trust this “Cloud Computing” no matter where it is saved and protected?

My solution to this problem is to purchase a 1, 2, 3, or more TB HD USB hook-up for my home use and even for small businesses. No you will not have all of the conviences of hooking-up with sync, mobile, networked, or groups to share. We all need to learn to live within our means, money and computing included, using our own creative methods of sharing our data.

Not being a programmer nor a cute named Geek-a-zoid, but; just a plain and simple curious user that wants to know more about my own system and how to keep me and that system safe. Maybe to assist some friends, relatives, neighbors, or even strangers a little safer and better informed, I like to THANK Windows Secrets and all of their staff for providing these newsletters that has been very RICH with information and data which I share with any and all that are willing to read and learn.

This Lounge is also very important for people like my self to learn from other people what they are doing and posting here.

I thank one and all, you know the ones you are are very important to me and many another that lurk and read.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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Nice article, thanks. I use another alternative to Dropbox that encrypts before uploading – JungleDisk. https://www.jungledisk.com/. If you do not put a lot of data there it is pretty cheap – you pay a sliding rate based on the amount of data you store and upload and download. I use it to share files within the family and $3/month covers us. I, too, was suspicious of using the cloud but Steve Gibson examined JungleDisk and gave it a thumbs up in episode 123 of the Security Now podcast. http://www.grc.com/securitynow.htm. You have a choice of Amazon or RackSpace servers for where your files are stored.

It doesn’t do the incremental backup of Dropbox but otherwise it is pretty convenient. I have it configured to create a virtual drive on each machine so I just have to tell the kids to put a file on the “R drive” and they know what to do. That also lets me isolate the kid’s machine from my work computer on our home network just in case.

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According to this article, Dropbox’s revised privacy policy states: “We may disclose to parties outside Dropbox files stored in your Dropbox and information about you that we collect when we have a good-faith belief that disclosure is reasonably necessary to (a) comply with a law, regulation or compulsory legal request; (b) protect the safety of any person from death or serious bodily injury; (c) prevent fraud or abuse of Dropbox or its users; or (d) protect Dropbox’s property rights.”

If a user encrypts the data before Dropbox gets it using TrueCrypt, SecretSync, BoxCryptor or similar tool, how is Dropbox able to comply with its own (newly-revised) policy, specifically (a), (b), (c) and (d) above?[/FONT][/COLOR]

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I looked at SpiderOak and installed it but, unless I misunderstood something, you can’t share files with anyone unless you backup your entire computer or at least one of the general categories they give you. So, if I want to share a group of vacation pics, I have to backup all 20 GBs of pics in order to share some 30 pictures. Not at all convenient nor necessary. I’m looking to share a few memories, not backup my computer or parts thereof. Di I get this right or not.

PS I would never put anything in Dropbox that I consider confidential or “sacred” so the security issue for what it’s intended use is not a major concern of mine anyway.

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I use dropbox to synchronize my passwords across two Macs, a Win7 PC and an iPad. However, I use 1Password to store my passwords, and it encrypts the passwords before it is passed to dropbox. 1Password can unencrypt the passwords on all of the platforms, so this is transparent. I don’t put anything else on dropbox that is proprietary in any way. If I wanted to do that, I would encrypt the file manually before passing to dropbox. This would work for all platforms except the iPad.

David

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The same issue of the company holding the encryption keys applies to online backup vendors like Mozy and Carbonite. This still is preferable to the alternative: leaving users to manage their own encryption, which for the vast majority of people will mean storing data in the clear. Users who prefer extra security can avail themselves of local encryption options, while users who don’t have the interest or energy are at least protected against outsiders reading their files on the service’s storage media, assuming key storage is secure.

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Greetings and salutations from LeonSprings, TX.,

I attempted to post a message about this topic this morning and my IE would not finish the posting. Had to use IE ‘recover webpage’ and my message went into the waste bit bucket, never never land.

I am now making another attempt, if I may? Hope the same does not occur again. Next, or maybe now, I will copy/paste my message to a TXT file before loosing it.

EYE “C” my original post did get through, even though I checked several times lookin for it, I will appologize to the Lounge for thinking and saying that it did not get through, When It Did!!

I suffer from the problem of having ‘dual-noids’ (better known as ‘paranoid’) and do not trust the internet nor any other service there upon such a unsecure/insecure facility. My ‘Cloud’ is not connected, it is a 1TB HD USB connected when I want it or share with anyone if wanted.

With the creativeness of all of the ‘fools’ that are hacking into thingys there is not any facility out there that is “fool proof” nor, if accessible from the internet from any where, totally secure. Encryption is better than NONE, yet with all of the naive people out there using that and will give any information to anyone that asks for it, how secure can they be?

My best suggestion for those of you that feel you cannot get by without some sort of “Cloud” out there in ‘la-la’ land get real and use 1, 2, 3, et ceteras TB HD USB connected to your computer when you need it. Learn to live within your ‘means’ like financially as well as computer wise. Meaning be wise in how you use your computer and where you store your valuable information. Also spend your money wisely so we can survive, each of you as well as our country. I bless the USofA!!

Now if anyone is offended by any thing you read into this, forget it, we are not all the same nor believe the same.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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Hey Woody,

I too understood that explanation the way ‘vroberts’ understood, or maybe I misunderstood also. I will reread later, still attempting to read all posts on this topic. Along with troubleshooting mineown problems here.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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I have used Steganos LockNote (on certain files in my DropBox) with a very long password (upper & lower case, numbers, special characters) without a problem for a number of years.

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Thank you for an excellent breakdown of what the “problems” really are.

That said, I never really liked Dropbox. And Spideroak, well… It needs to grow it’s software a little more.

The online storage I keep using and installing is Zumo-drive. See it as a secure online USB drive. Upload & storage is secure (no details), and it adds a drive to your Computer – you can just drag / drop / manipulate files like you do with an ordinary drive on your windows computer. Also, it has an online portal where you can browse your files from your internetbrowsers. Sharing is also no problem (user/public). And many more! You can use this link to test-drive it (link will give you +256MB). Maximum free account 2,25GB.

–> https://www.zumodrive.com/referrals/dir/23JMGM4Mm

It has been a while since I tested ADrive, software was bad, but I see it popping up more and more… I’ve been replanning on testing it once again, might do it one of these days ; )

Thank you for the alternatives mentioned in the comments until now – I’ll check them out (inforelay.com, jungledisk.com, wuala.com).

Peace!

Devvie

~~~ notemail@facebook.com ~~~

Cuisvis hominis est errare, nullius nisi insipientis in errore persevare
——
All spelling mistakes are my own and may only be distributed under the GNU General Public License! – (© 95-1 by Coredump; 2-011 by DevNullius)

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I’ve just read the article on DropBox – and what concerns me is the factthat Password Manager uses DropBox to enable it to synchronise your passwordsbetween PCs, Macs and your iPad or iPhone. Presumably this means someone mightget access to my passwords.

Does anyone know if RoboForm is the same (it synchronises on the cloud and doesn’tuse DropBox if you use RoboForm Everywhere).

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I’ve just read the article on DropBox – and what concerns me is the factthat Password Manager uses DropBox to enable it to synchronise your passwordsbetween PCs, Macs and your iPad or iPhone. Presumably this means someone mightget access to my passwords.

I don’t know Password Manager, but if this description is correct http://www.wpcentral.com/password-manager-review , Password Manager encrypts its database using AES 256. If true, only you have the key, and Dropbox is a fine way to distribute the password database.

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I’ve Dropbox on a number of Windows 7 (64 bit) and Mac systems. On one, I had issues and attempted to uninstall and reinstall Dropbox due to some errors. In trying to uninstall and clean up everything (incl. the Dropbox folder in Roaming) and then reinstalling I get very odd errors about not being able to read the dropbox.exe file or having sufficient permissions on a folder (I’m running with full admin privileges and even launched the install as Administrator), and then when attempting to abort the installation, finding the installation process hanging.

Seems others have run into similar issues. Love to know if anyone’s figured out how to completely clean out a system or if this has to do with something in the current download.

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For those of you needing access to your data through the internet, you might look at pogoplug. You connect it to your local area network, attach a USB hard drive, set up an account via pogoplug.com to control access and you can see all your info, even from a smartphone. Just another alternative.

Being an old timer who used to work in the mainframe days, I think of the cloud as just a big mainframe that is shared by many users and many apps. When PCs came out everyone wanted to move to PCs so that they controlled their own data, now we are putting it back into a mainframe. Just that it is not down the hall or within out physical complex. What goes around comes around. The youngsters here probably don’t even know what a mainframe is / was. LOL.

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Had one of these for a few years and it eventually died, though the drive kept on going, which was the surprise. If you’re not really concerned with the power consumption of using these devices for what may turn out to be somewhat limited use, then it’s probably a good alternative to putting your “stuff” out in the ‘net. However, when you’re away there’s the issue of managing the environment, if anything goes wrong (router, PogoPlug reboot, disk issues, whatever). When it’s on a server that’s shared and managed by others, there may be a better chance of higher availability, or at least support.

p.s. I was able to “fix” Dropbox by booting into Safe Mode (no network), cleaning things up, and running the installation. Seems that there must be some resources that the installation cannot either obtain or get control over that exist in a fully running system.

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I’ve been using PogoPlug as an alternative to DropBox. PogoPlug has support for all PC platforms, iPhone, Android except Blackberry. There is no fees and no limits on file sizes. You can encrypt your files before uploading them. You are in total control of your own cloud.

Jack C.

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One thing that I’d be leery of and that I don’t see mentioned in anyone’s articles is the fact that Dropbox doesn’t necessarily store the file you send. If it already has a file that it “sees” as identical, it just gives you a copy of that one instead.
Now I know from experience that especially with photos, the software that makes those decisions can be wildly faulty. I used a WS recommended program to dig out duplicate photos on my computer and when looking over the duplicates it found, ran into some that were so bizarre it was hard to believe. One “duplicate” – and this is a true story – had paired a picture of my 6 yr old grand daughter doing gymnastics on the beach with a photo of a massive male rhinoceros that I took in Kenya.
There were many, many false pairings, and I would advise anyone who values their photos to stay far, far away from this program.

"She was not quite what you would call refined. She was not quite what you would call unrefined.
She was the kind of person that keeps a parrot."
--Mark Twain

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Interesting to highlight this privacy issue, but totally disappointing to recommend just one product as an alternative, that’s a definite placement. We need a bit more analysis, objectivity and a few proposals please. Not a happy subscriber! By the way, trying out Sugarsync and it has 5GB free account and more flexibility, actually much more than I need but may be interesting for many people who want to also backup as well as have a Dropbox alternative – worth checking out, but I would like to try a few more alternatives before I decide.

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Dropbox, Sugarsync, Cloud, et ceteras, are not for me. Security is my most important point and having any data strored anywhere except my system is not acceptable. Besides a cloud is a bit too damp and may cause my bits to drip or drop.

"Infinite CREATOR" cast "Loving Light" upon thee
TIA, CU L8R, 'd' "LoneWanderer"
"Only you can control your future." Dr. Seuss
NOT a leader,
NOT a BLIND follower,
Join US and LIVE this LIFE as ONE!
Original author Unknown

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