The end of Microsoft support for XP

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I have read lots of complaints about Microsoft abandoning XP when there is a huge active XP userbase.

The way I see it, Microsoft isn’t making any money from this huge userbase, yet they are being asked to continue to support them.

The way Microsoft makes money is by selling software. Therefore, I like Woody Leonhard’s suggestion that Microsoft charge a small annual fee in order for people to continue to receive XP support.

If you were Microsoft, would you keep giving support to XP, or would you try to move people foward to a more modern OS? Me, I would do exactly what Microsoft does with regard to OS support.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Have to agree with you Jim, but I fear you will find many members won’t…

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I agree; still, I use XP and will continue (in a virtual machine that is). I hardened it and will continue to fine-tune that hardening until the mal-ware writers give up and attack other OSs since that would be more lucrative for them to do so.

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I don’t know who would disagree, I’m a very ardent XP user, will be for a long time, loss of updates means nothing to me since I barely paid them any heed for years and years, heck I don’t even update a system past SP2 unless some software requires it (most does these days).
I say don’t let the update door hit you in the derriere Microsoft…and while you’re at it, turn off the activation servers, set it FREE man. Microsoft has done everything they could to kill off XP over the last half a decade short of actual sabotage. Turn and shuffle away in defeat, stinging from the assessment that XP is still WAYYY more popular than that steaming pile of Eight.
I heard the best assessment of the situation at hand on the most recent episode of Windows Weekly. To quote, “It’s time to double down on the people who actually use your products, NOT some mythical group of consumers who will never stop using their simpler Android and iOS devices just because you WISH they would.” Said about Microsoft of course. Bingo, right on the head. Build that nonsense into separate products if you still wish to try for the shoelace tackle of Google and Apple, just don’t mess with the business and productivity users. I fall into the latter camp and you couldn’t pay me anything less than 5 grand or so to give up my XP systems and put up with the grief of something else still considered viable. Special exception, only 2 grand to switch entirely to Win 7.

God love’em for producing XP but,…hear that?…me neither, but, that was the second Microsoft Deathstar exploding silently in space. Now go away and let the XP users and Ewoks party!

…too strong?

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…too strong?

Yes, I think so. If you prefer XP, no problem. With your technical knowledge I’m sure you can make it safely work. But with a few minor ttweaks, some of us actually like that “steaming pile of Eight.” I find I live primarily on the desktop but I actually like the option of having access to modern apps only when I want to. I have found a couple of Modern app games I like.

As for “don’t let the update door hit you in the derriere Microsoft”, I’ve always felt that if and update doesn’t work, there is almost always a problem with the PC that should be fixed. I never let a PC that I repair go without fixing any Windows Update problem. I think to do otherwise is unprofessional.

I never bad mouth anyone’s choice of an OS but I believe Microsoft has made security advances in each new release. I find Windows 8 the most secure and fastest OS they have released but if you are happy with what you have, there’s no reason to change.

Jerry

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After listening to Windows Weekly this week I’m just so glad the people have joined the Rebel Alliance in such great numbers that it means Win 8 is NOT the future of Windows, though I know not what that is because for me it has been THE most frustrating technically proficient passive aggressive anti-productive OS I have ever used (don’t miss the plus in there). That’s why the inclusion of productivity users as a separate entity alongside business struck home like Robin Hood’s mythical arrow splitting the arrow beneath to win the contest.

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I recently set up several PCs for a business (lawyers no less!) and with a few tweaks they love it. They did hate it out of the Box.

Jerry

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I took the plunge and did a clean install of Windows 8. I used it as-is, trying the best I could to work in Desktop mode, but it was extremely frustrating without the Start Button / Start Menu. I then installed StartIsBack, and I couldn’t be happier with Windows 8. This is on my extremely lame eMachines Vista computer with 2 GB of RAM.

(Windows 8.1 is a different story. Too many incompatibilities.)

As others have said, if you want to use XP, go for it. I really liked Windows 7, but I went to Windows 8 because I got tired of commenting on Windows 8 without actually having used it! (There has been a lot of Windows 8 “expert” commentary from people who have never touched it!) Also, I wanted to have as new an OS as I could, so that I could keep up with patches, etc.

But the point I made by my original post, and which I still stand by, is that if I were Microsoft, I would do whatever I could to wean people off of an OS that I was not going to make any money off of, and which likely is getting harder over time to keep secure from malware, hackers, etc. (To me, that is one of the key selling points of Windows 8 over older versions of Windows.)

But there could be a Win-Win situation if Microsoft were to charge a small subscription fee for those users who want to keep using XP, and who want to continue receiving security updates. This way, Microsoft could still make money off of XP, and therefore they would have a reason to keep supporting it.

Not too many people are going to want to spend a lot of their time and money doing work for people they don’t even know, if there is no hope for any return on their investment. It’s hard enough doing that for your friends and family, let alone perfect strangers.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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But the point I made by my original post, and which I still stand by, is that if I were Microsoft, I would do whatever I could to wean people off of an OS that I was not going to make any money off of, and which likely is getting harder over time to keep secure from malware, hackers, etc. (To me, that is one of the key selling points of Windows 8 over older versions of Windows.)

But there could be a Win-Win situation if Microsoft were to charge a small subscription fee for those users who want to keep using XP, and who want to continue receiving security updates. This way, Microsoft could still make money off of XP, and therefore they would have a reason to keep supporting it.

Not too many people are going to want to spend a lot of their time and money doing work for people they don’t even know, if there is no hope for any return on their investment. It’s hard enough doing that for your friends and family, let alone perfect strangers.

I don’t disagree with a token charge for say SP4 with a 5yr life but the way that Microsoft have gone about things with Vista, the 8 fiasco and what is still a premature withdrawal of a a sound OS is just to alienate. It has spurred me to install and use Linux for the first time, bearing in mind that these are constantly improving, and I have friends and family that will go the same way. Perfectly good hardware otherwise going to waste and my laptop isn’t going anywhere soon despite being 6yrs old. Good brand, sound performance and I feel that Microsoft want to force me to ditch it. Not a way to engender loyalty and they will lose out as I don’t believe I’m alone in looking at alternative paths. I’m not sure what Microsoft software I will miss. Microsoft gained their foothold by realising the money wasn’t in the hardware. They need to be careful not to be overdependent on the concept that the money is in the OS.

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I have read lots of complaints about Microsoft abandoning XP when there is a huge active XP userbase.

That’s a declining userbase, not a fixed or growing one.
Once the vast majority of XP users turnover their XP based computers there will be no going back.
Hardware is already starting to outpace it.

MS has every right to dump it’s XP support considering that it already has 4 operating systems to support, let alone supporting one that is grossly antiquated.

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…… Once the vast majority of XP users turnover their XP based computers there will be no going back. Hardware is already starting to outpace it. MS has every right to dump it’s XP support considering that it already has 4 operating systems to support, let alone supporting one that is grossly antiquated.

Exactly! Microsoft is in business to make as much money as possible from as many people as possible, so what they do is always going to be motivated by that principle. Having a static user base is not what they want. Added to that is supporting an OS that continues to require monthly patching – time consuming and expensive.

So they bring out the “Next Best Thing” – NBT. I don’t have a problem with that at all: every company has to do that or run the risk of being overtaken in the market.

However, many people don’t want to use the “NBT” and continue to use the “Previous Next Best Thing” – PNBT”. Eventually, however, the computer running the PNBT will require some replacement parts, which may not be available or supported by the PBNT. At that stage, unless the user has squirreled away new/used parts that can be used as a replacement, the upgrade option becomes a necessity.

That’s life, it happens all the time and very few people complain about it: thinks cars, expensive electronic items, houses and so on.

I don’t see the need to contribute to Microsoft’s coffers at this stage, perhaps never. My XP is fully patched, and hides behind a hardware firewall – my router. Every so often I do an anti-virus scan, a malware scan, use CCleaner and a few other such apps. In eight years I’ve not has any viral infections, and only a few dodgy root-kits and malware, but I know why and how they got there, and they’re easy to fix. So I don’t see the point in going to the NBT when the PNBT is still a fully functioning, suitable piece of software that does everything I want it to.

Should I have an elevated series of “bugs, nasties and other nefarious intruders”, AND the reason is the OS lets them through, THEN I most definitely will change my OS – or if I can’t get old parts I’ll have to change. But not at the moment.

I have a video card, motherboard, ram, hard disk, cables and connectors lying around, so I may be able to replace parts for a while. Who knows.

Microsoft’s doing what they should be doing. I don’t agree with the latest offering Win8.1 and don’t buy into the constant replacement of OSes just because MS wants more of my money.

Everyone has a choice. Mine is to stay with XP and I’ll change when it costs me to stay with WinXP, or when XP fails to support the uses I have for it, or when I can’t get newer hardware to work with it. I’ve been working with desktops since 1988, and with an IBM 360 mainframe from a few years from 1972, and I’ve seen it before. Microsoft’s only one company that does this, others are not as visible, but think of hardware manufacturers – think of Apple, with its incompatible connections between models. .

I’m not including businesses here – they have huge costs in any changes to their systems.

We can make that choice fully informed, or believe market hype, overstatements or whatever else comes from the mouth of the beast and spend our hard-earned cash so we can say something like :

1. “Look what I’ve bought.”
2. “Isn’t this nice.”
3. “Now I can work better, faster and cleaner.” (Right)
4. “New technology, ain’t it great.”
5. “Now I need to buy a new PC.”
6. “At last I can work without the OS getting in the way.”
7. “When’s the next training course. I NEED to learn this new OS before I can do any more work.”
8. “Oh, great. I can’t play DVDs any more.”
9. “Where’s my desktop gone?”

and finally …

10 “A new OS? Great, show me how it works about sometime next year.”

I’m for #10, somehow I think XP will be my desktop of choice for a few more years.

THE SMALL PRINT
This discussion does not include any flavor of Linux, Apple OS or any other variant of anything other than Windows XP and above. Opinions expressed above may have no foundation in fact, are my own and may not be supported by any external group, business a national security organisation.

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I stayed with XP until W7 was firmly established. I still truthfully did not want to make the switch. I was so thrilled to have a PC that didn’t require multiple reboots every. single. day.; one that never froze up as well as one that simply, in a word, worked. How can you improve on such a solid OS?

The first time a customer brought in (the first of many to come) a 2 month old laptop that took 14 minutes to boot after she installed MS Office I knew Vista (in any form) was not the answer. When 7 was introduced fairly quickly and I got to tinker with it a little, I switched from antacids to a grain of salt to cope with MS’s latest hype. Toward the end of 2010, after SP1 rolled out, I permanently switched over to the new OS. Thus far, I’ve been pretty happy with it. I could, and can still, feel XP’s influence in 7’s stability and durability. I had my first experience with 8 a couple weeks ago. Two words: Keyboard Shortcuts.

I don’t remember if it was Windows Secrets or another of the half-dozen IT newsletters I receive each week, but one of them mentioned a lucrative business opportunity for some of those XP gurus to, in MSoft’s stead, form a group to provide support to the huge base of die-hard XP users out there. Not a bad idea, really, IMHO.

I’m now disabled due to kidney failure but I still do a little IT work for the municipality in which I live and the residents thereof. Most businesses I worked for over the years could not afford to stay on the bleeding edge of technology. Even where I live: I upgraded them from the used W2K Server & 3 W2K Pro PCs dumped on them in ’04 by their previous IT guy to W7 & SBS in late 2010. That was a big investment for them. Same for firms with even 10 PCs.

But as you’re all very aware, cost is only part of the issue. If what they’re using fills their computing needs, why should they have to scrap everything simply because the OS developer has to constantly manufacture its market? My brother owned two convenience stores in rural Alabama. He used 80286 model PCs for video rentals up until he sold the stores in 2004. There were some minor issues but the computer, bar code scanner, monitors and printer still worked.

One thing I saw mentioned a few times here is the question of replacement parts for older machines. Since all the big builders have subscribed to “planned obsolescence” there are tons of parts out there for just about any generation PC. Older parts are expensive, yes, but still cheaper than replacing all your PCs. Surely, y’all have looked at eBay and, to a lesser degree, Amazon. And there are countless parts stores online.

Cases in point:

[INDENT] 1) I have a Vista laptop on my bench right now that belongs to my wife’s boss. The left mouse(?) button does not work. Cannot replace the buttons only but you can get the entire top cover complete with touchpad and buttons for <$20. (To buy from the manufacturer would have cost nearly 5x that for the same used part.)There weren't just one or two but dozens from which to choose. That's just eBay. [/INDENT]

[INDENT] 2) Six months ago my neighbor was given a ThinkPad with XP Pro. The bezel around the display was missing a section which had been broken off. Hundreds of that model ThinkPad were available for virtually every conceivable part. [/INDENT]

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's absolute nonsense to force customers to give up something that works and works successfully for them simply because there's a new version. Obviously, the ones that are happy with XP feel their current level of security and performance is adequate for their particular needs. Who's to say there's anything wrong with that?

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Would-be eternal XP users can moan all you want, the fact is that Microsoft will not be continuing to support it. There will be no critical updates available, new or old, after 8th April. Every new security hole that’s discovered after then is an issue that will make XP users who go online sitting ducks for hackers. No, your firewall won’t protect you. No, your antivirus won’t fully protect you, and all antivirus programs will stop being updateable on XP after a while.

Microsoft have done this before, they’re going to do it now, and they will do it again. They can’t support an unlimited increasing number of operating systems. You have about 6 weeks to get a new, secure, operating system installed, working and tamed. And only that long to fully patch all your XP systems, including XP Mode on Windows 7.

Good luck for those continuing to use XP online anyway, you’ll need it. I for one won’t be helping you to solve and problems that arise.

After some of you learn the lesson about needing to install a new OS, for some of you the hard way, think ahead, it pays. I bought every copy of Windows 7 my family and I will need in the future just before Windows 8 went on sale, at consequently very good prices. By leaving it until the last weeks, a few of you will be stuck with Windows 8, good luck with that too.

Anyways, got to go do other things on my nicely tweaked Windows 7 OS, enjoy ya moaning to each other while the deadline approaches, I guess.

Asus N53SM & N53SN 64-bit laptops (Win7 Pro & Win10 Pro 64-bit multiboots), venerable HP Pavilion t760 32-bit desktop (XP & Win7 Pro multiboot), Oracle VirtualBox VM's: XP & Win7 32-bit, XP Mode, aged Samsung Galaxy S4, Samsung Galaxy Tab A 2019s (8" & 10.1"), Blu-ray burners, digital cameras, ext. HDDs (latest 5TB!), AnyDVD, Easeus ToDo Backup Home, Waterfox, more. Me: Aussie card-carrying Windows geek.

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I knew it would be a landslide for ending support ruirib (with the caveat of paid support of course). China is about the only place still asking for an extension. Also calling XP grossly antiquated won’t make it so; it wouldn’t even be close to as useful and USED if it were. Extremely old yes, but I use antiquated OSes (98,ME,BeOS a tiny bit) and the difference is quite striking. In fact it’s one of the cornerstone reasons MS is having such an extended uphill battle to purge XP. Am I the only one making all these spacial and temporal connections? XP does not exist in a vacuum! The other cornerstones; the Vista disaster, piracy (mostly in China again), and business reluctance to change something that is perceived rightly or wrongly as safe enough (they’ve had a long time to learn safe procedures either the hard way or with good IT support) and certainly efficacious enough for their needs.

I wonder if a small fee for support would be successful…in essence Microsoft would be getting a taste of what they always seem to want; a subscription fee rather than a license fee.

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One thing that doesn’t get mentioned a lot is that about 95% of ATMs are still XP based. I doubt the companies are going to just dump them when support ends. The reason XP was extended because of the bungled developments that eventually led to Vista. I suspect Windows 7 may get extended since many businesses are just transitioning to Windows 7 now.
Joe

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The big push to get rid of XP is because XP was originally released in 2001 which means its beginnings were in the late 1990s. The computing world was a different place then. The design and architecture of XP does not accommodate today’s computing environment. Microsoft have stated more than once they cannot retrofit an increasing number of security fixes to XP.

Large companies do not have to dump XP. They are free to pay Microsoft a fee to work on XP to fix a specific problem they discover. At some point it is not cost effective to continue to use XP based systems. Each company has to figure that out and act on it.

Joe

--Joe

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you cant retrofit any security fix to anything

if security were not ARCHITECTED in originally
you will be chasing your tail forever trying to fix it

considering the trainign and existing aps
it makes sense to keep xp forever
and slowly start introducing newer devices but only as absolutely necessary

The big push to get rid of XP is because XP was originally released in 2001 which means its beginnings were in the late 1990s. The computing world was a different place then. The design and architecture of XP does not accommodate today’s computing environment. Microsoft have stated more than once they cannot retrofit an increasing number of security fixes to XP.

Large companies do not have to dump XP. They are free to pay Microsoft a fee to work on XP to fix a specific problem they discover. At some point it is not cost effective to continue to use XP based systems. Each company has to figure that out and act on it.

Joe

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well win 8 is not a modern os

people will keep using xp for a long long time if ms thinks we are going to want a crippled tablet interface instead of a real pc and a decent os

microslop could rule the biz again if they started over and made a completely virus proof pc
it can be done. i know people who built the demo models in the 1980s. the usaf did it too.
but nobody will use a safer pc. did nsa make them keep them vulnerable ??

I have read lots of complaints about Microsoft abandoning XP when there is a huge active XP userbase.

The way I see it, Microsoft isn’t making any money from this huge userbase, yet they are being asked to continue to support them.

The way Microsoft makes money is by selling software. Therefore, I like Woody Leonhard’s suggestion that Microsoft charge a small annual fee in order for people to continue to receive XP support.

If you were Microsoft, would you keep giving support to XP, or would you try to move people foward to a more modern OS? Me, I would do exactly what Microsoft does with regard to OS support.

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well win 8 is not a modern os

Windows 8 was released in October 2012. You don’t think that is modern?

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Windows 8 was released in October 2012. You don’t think that is modern?

obviously, speedball isn’t paying attention or is blind. though Windows 8.1 was officially released in October 2013 and that is a modern OS.

I’ve already moved away from XP and upgraded my bedroom computer to Windows Vista SP2 in July 2013 since it’s good enough to run Vista/Win7 (AMD Sempron 3000 [2.0ghz] cpu w/ 1Gb of RAM, 120gb ide hard drive). I’ll eventually upgrade to Windows 7 SP1 once I get a license to run it on my bedroom PC.

at least there’s one third party program that requires minimum of Windows 7 and that’s Realplayer Cloud. that one won’t install nor run under XP/Vista.

my aunt’s older computer will still have XP SP3 even beyond April 2014 since it’s not capable of running Vista/Win7 or higher [it’s an old Dell Optiplex GX100 computer – Intel Celeron 1.1ghz cpu w/ 512Mb of RAM max]

I think XP users can run XP even when Microsoft drops support for it in April 2014 until many third party program developers decide to drop XP support for their apps, which won’t happen for a while.

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More like a lost opportunity for you bigbad. What I mean by that is I read one of your other posts about some software you really like and paid a buncha money for…it runs all day for free in XP. I don’t use the sly fox software but I experimented with it and as far as I know, XP is the only OS capable of this feat. It’s a procedural task, not complicated; I won’t spill the beans on that though. I believe in allowing owners to make a backup but not those who P2P the stuff.

BTW, the castle walls don’t fall just because it’s lacking a couple new foot soldiers. Now go away you English pig dogs or I shall taunt you some more! (That’s a line from a movie just in case no one knows :p)

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What gets me about all this is that most XP “home” users have no idea about the upcoming “end of support” and what it means. Whenever I work with an XP user with a problem, and ask them about it, they knew nothing about it. Yes, WE know, us and fellow geeks who read about computers know, but the average PC user has not been informed. How would they be? MS hasn’t sent out a notification to all XP users. It seems all they’ve done is announce it to those who keep up with tech news then expect others to get the word out. Yes, I know “end of support” has happened lots of products over the years, but this is much bigger.

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What gets me about all this is that most XP “home” users have no idea about the upcoming “end of support” and what it means. Whenever I work with an XP user with a problem, and ask them about it, they knew nothing about it. Yes, WE know, us and fellow geeks who read about computers know, but the average PC user has not been informed. How would they be? MS hasn’t sent out a notification to all XP users. It seems all they’ve done is announce it to those who keep up with tech news then expect others to get the word out. Yes, I know “end of support” has happened lots of products over the years, but this is much bigger.

Indeed it’s much bigger but it always evokes the same line of thought from me, how the heck have these folks been surviving on XP all this time if they are so oblivious? The ONE dependable factor is there are no new users of XP (statistically). If nothing is known of end of support, do they know of updates at all? Do they know anything of layered security? Do they know anything about not clicking links/attachments in email or anything they did not initiate? Do you see infections over and over from the same users all the time and they just keep paying the repair bill over and over? There’s a juxtaposition in there that I’ve never been able to consolidate. If I were that unaware, I couldn’t afford to run XP. Finally, in the end, it matters only to us that those folks are oblivious; it’ll cause problems on the Internet, but to them, oblivious is oblivious is it not? In other words it’s a problem we can do very little about.

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If M$ makes money selling software then tell them to SELL an OS we can upgrade to! They are debating cutting off Windows 7 already, so obviously they want to FORCE us to buy Windows 8. Another VISTA nightmare while they figure mobile out!

PS: 7 is only good until 2020.

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