The inside story on Win10 rollouts – the machine learning engine that throttles

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By Conrad_von_Soest,_’Brillenapostel’_(1403).jpg, Public Domain If you don’t mind graphs without axis labels, you might find this post from Microsoft
[See the full post at: The inside story on Win10 rollouts – the machine learning engine that throttles]

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, abbodi86, Fred

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Could Microsoft please explain these two errors in light of the new, improved testing:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/reports-of-problems-with-hp-printers-after-installing-the-second-sept-win10-1903-cumulative-update-kb-4522016/

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/installing-the-win10-1903-second-sept-cumulative-update-kb-4522016-prevents-installation-of-net-3-5/

Machine testing is only as good as the programmer who wrote the machine’s test.

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Fred

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geekdom wrote:

Could Microsoft please explain these two errors in light of the new, improved testing:

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/reports-of-problems-with-hp-printers-after-installing-the-second-sept-win10-1903-cumulative-update-kb-4522016/

https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/installing-the-win10-1903-second-sept-cumulative-update-kb-4522016-prevents-installation-of-net-3-5/

Machine testing is only as good as the programmer who wrote the machine’s test.

Since late 1985 I physically witnessed in the Microsoft rollups events info’s tech&expert-trainings whatsoever. And as an expert made a good living of this. BUT : Since the disappearance of the servicepacks and the dismissals of microsoft own testing teams the so called new rollouts of the repairs and updates as of W10 this new results of MSs own learning from users programs. MS is getting people almost crazy because there is no logic anymore in following the changes or repairing the faults.

This might be the age, but can Microsoft at least leave me/us a good and stable  working OS?_just for the people who do not wish to have the newest, latest, gadgetiest, cloudiest, foggiest, shiny obligatory new hardware?

_Or *do I have to be* a part of the millions and millions of billions of people experiencing these greater goodies? (Only a very few people have some little problem, see KBxyz).

* _ ... _ *

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LSTB looks like the most stable solution (major updates ONLY every two years). Unfortunatelly, there is thrice the price of “normal” Windows 10 edition.

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Too much details to make you lose interest and say OK, whatever 😀

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Precisely. And the lack of a label on the y axis makes the whole thing very suspect.

AI has some good uses. This isn’t one of them.

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, abbodi86

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woody wrote:

Precisely. And the lack of a label on the y axis makes the whole thing very suspect.

AI has some good uses. This isn’t one of them.

That’s quite right. So called “statistics” can easily be used to make a “beter appearance” to the public. All data can be presented in some twisted logarithm and looks like a beautyful picture.

So is cutting out lines of written text can alter the meaning of what is written, even when this text is as neutral as can be. Questionable newsmedia and now also Microsoft tends to do this, and is creating new news as you may call it. Fake news is the most trendy branding name for it.

Alterior motives can be part of this.
The real meaning of comments and therefore a more sincere discussion is avoided this way; who will know the changes to tell?

To me this is a more fundamental discussion in where is I.T. and I.o.T leading people in businesses governments or private, than the endless complaints of bad-patching and crancky OS’s, and finding some cleaver registry-solution to make it work again, and leave it to that. Who needs what and can be provided?, or has he been told what he will need?
The whole businessmodel and ways of earning-money is changing.
And probably before one is aware of this he plays a role in this altered ‘mentalaty’.
Once again, it’s pitty.

* _ ... _ *

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abbodi86

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My eyes glassed over a bit as soon as I read the title of the article. Another propaganda article.

After reading that I thought about the joke where NASA spends millions to create a pen that will work in outer space while the Russians use a pencil.

It’s a shame that Microsoft can’t afford to pay actual people anymore to do their software testing and quality assurance because that is obviously what works the best. The whole A.I. thing seems to be getting worse, not better.

Red Ruffnsore

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, Fred

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But the real joke is on the end users that are saving MS millions on QA/QC payrolls with those end users helping bisect all of MS’s problems for free. That AI is mostly scanning the available blogs along with any more limited telemetry from insiders and that’s MS’s version of open foisting that responsibility onto the crowd.

Just wait until 2020-2023 and it’s all Windows 10 from then on and in addition to that QA/QC workload the end users will have their OSAAS/SAAS recurring billing cycles to maintain as well.

Open Source software usually comes for free but MS is open foisting QA/QC workload and not having to pay as well while its OS end users under 10 will still be charged by the license and, in the not to distant future, for some monthly subscription fees as well. And even if the end user gets Windows 10 for free at first, well, that’s just the gateway drug to the OSAAS/SAAS that’s incoming as Windows 7 goes EOL(Jan 2020) and 8.1(Jan 2023) as well. And by that time MS will have crowd foisted Windows 10 completely into a OSAAS/SAAS and subscription services business model with that Windows subsystem for Linux along for the ride.

Is it any wonder that MS is embracing Open Source, just look at those insiders and end users doing all that pro bono QA/QC. And no copies of the source code available on the windows 10 side other than what’s brought in from the Linux kernel parts as it’s included in that Windows Subsystem For Linux.

I can now see why IBM purchased Red Hat and Microsoft has “Embraced” Linux and that MS crowd foisting is what gets me all ROFLOL as that joke will be ongoing until 2023 and will most certainly require paying some monthly fees.

 

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Fred

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Maybe it works on a small subset of upgrade issues, but they shouldn’t brag too much about it when updates were much better years ago and patching was not with cumulative releases to reduce the complexity of the number of different possible patching states…

The problem that machine AI can’t solve is to identify what is an issue in lots of case. To learn, it needs to know there has been a problem, either reported by the system like a blue screen (easy) or users (and we know how good Microsoft is at getting feedback from users).

My search tool don’t work well no more. AI won’t know that unless many people take the time to report it and rate it critical. I get an orange screen. AI won’t detect that by itself either because it doesn’t know an orange screen is bad if nobody experienced it before and told the machine it is bad and it would need a way to detect the orange screen anyway. So it can’t learn and make inference until they feed it from manually gathered information for lots of issues.

And even if they try to get users to rate a criticality aspect, what can the machine learn if it is not hardware related? If there are simply many bugs due to poor quality control, AI will not be able to do much more than issue a set of common settings or software installed, but it will not find a solution. Suppose the users that moved their librairies to a different partition get their files erased. They give a high criticality rating to the feedback. Still, the AI might notice among all things common, if enough people took the time to submit the feedback to the same question or different feedback were analyzed and regrouped as the same issue, that they have in common lots of settings, and some non default settings being that they moved the folder if the telemetry sends that much data about their computer. Someone might have to dig to find out among all the common non default settings that those power users use, which ones could maybe be responsible for the deletion of files.

Then, they might delay the updates to other users after the fact, after reviewing that the issue reported is indeed problematic enough and if they found what combination of settings that is specific enough causes the issue, etc.

It seems a lot simpler to just go back to the days where updates worked much better because nobody thought that an OS development needed to be agile and constantly releasing updates for everyone except for those who have the huge pockets required to avoid this nonsense.

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Nibbled To Death By Ducks, Fred

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Feedback Loop: This diagram has been around in some form or another in connection with artificial intelligence for at least 30 years.

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“Or do I sound like an old man yelling at the kids to get off his lawn?”

No, not at all, Woody!

I wish more people WOULD start listening to the guys and gals who have been around for a long time regarding this mess MS has created.

Keep yelling! If you would go silent, the very silicon would cry out…

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"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty

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Fred

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