Quite possibly the worst month this year for patches. And that’s saying something! Post coming in Computerworld.
[See the full post at: Where we stand with the July 2018 Microsoft patches]
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Patch reliability is unclear. Unless you have an immediate, pressing need to install a specific patch, don't do it. |
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Where we stand with the July 2018 Microsoft patches
- This topic has 72 replies, 28 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 9 months ago.
AuthorViewing 24 reply threadsAuthor-
I am trying to recall if there was any time last year which was just as bad. July 2018 takes the cake.
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Is MS trying to destroy Windows? Patching is playing Russian Roulette with a fully load pistol; you will get shot. One has to wonder when users are to say enough of this and ditch Windows or at least lessen their use of it.
The value of any OS is the ecosystem built around it. But the OS needs to a stable, reliable base or the ecosystem is useless.
7 users thanked author for this post.
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Is MS trying to destroy Windows?
It’s been my opinion for a long time that they are. Windows is clearly no longer the center of Microsoft’s world anymore, and it’s not the moneymaker it once was. If PC sales keep declining, there will come a point that developing Windows is no longer profitable, since the cost to develop such a complicated piece of software won’t scale downward with the reduced sales. There can be little doubt that MS is acutely aware of former giants (AOL, for one) that withered away when their core products, the things upon which they built their fortune, became obsolete and unwanted by the market.
I think that the goal at MS is to use their monopoly to force everyone into the monetizing line of fire as rapidly as possible, and to monetize them mercilessly as long as they are willing to be monetized, in a way that they never would have done back in the days when they wanted Windows to remain a strong and vibrant platform. If the Windows users stay, that’s a win because of the monetizing, and if they leave, that’s a win, because eventually it will lead to MS being able to wash their hands of Windows as we have known it and become the cloud company that Nadella really wants it to be.
I don’t think the patching chaos is itself deliberate as much as it is a natural outgrowth of other deliberate actions that could easily be foreseen to cause problems. A penny saved is a penny earned, so all the pennies saved by not having a fully staffed QA department are as good as new revenue. It’s a form of monetization that any reasonable person could predict would lead to the exact situation we’re in now. If you get rid of quality assurance, quality is not assured!
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Yup, Mr. N. just seems to be re-arraigning the deck chairs on the Titanic…I’m jumping into the lifeboat marked “Ubuntu” at some point…done my homework already…
Win7 Pro SP1 64-bit, Dell Latitude E6330 ("The Tank"), Intel CORE i5 "Ivy Bridge", 12GB RAM, Group "0Patch", Multiple Air-Gapped backup drives in different locations. Linux Mint Newbie
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"The more kinks you put in the plumbing, the easier it is to stop up the pipes." -Scotty3 users thanked author for this post.
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And I will be appreciating your help, after you have made the jump.
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“If you can’t aim to be the best, aim to be the worst!” – Microsoft 2018
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This is the beginning of the end…
With every month’s patches being cumulative, all of July’s bugs will appear again every month from here on out, unless they strip and pull them out completely. The odds of that… we’ll lets just say I’m not holding my breath.With July updates being this way and 3 cumulative being pushed out the chute thus far for every version of 10… well, the great 10 experiment is over in my household. I’m going back to 7 post haste and going Group B which may become group W by August patch Tuesday.
There’s not enough hats, horses, and butts to hold onto anymore for the monthly MS patch madness.
7 users thanked author for this post.
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This is the beginning of the end… With every month’s patches being cumulative, all of July’s bugs will appear again every month from here on out, unless they strip and pull them out completely. The odds of that… we’ll lets just say I’m not holding my breath.
In Group A, WU W7 Jan/ Feb/ March 2018 SMQR patches have been removed completely due to the MS meltdown fiasco and supposedly fixed in April/ May so not to re-introduce the issue. So patches jump from December 2017 to April 2018.
Group B, Catalog SO patches, however, are still there! Surely the supercedence of April/ May has removed offending meltdown issue. Which begs the question:
Why are they still there in the first place only to be undone?
Windows - commercial by definition and now function...
Still as of 6:55 PM CDT, KB4338831 (Preview of Monthly Quality Rollup for August) is still marked as Optional instead of Recommended. Even if it is moved to Recommended, it won’t be installed because I’ve turned off “Give me recommended updates the same way I receive important updates”. That’s how I don’t risk installing KB3080109 (“telemetry”). Thank you, Woody, for telling us “Never check for updates” this month!
Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...1 user thanked author for this post.
zero2dash: “I’m going back to 7 post haste and going Group B which may become group W by August patch Tuesday.”
Perhaps this is the unintentionally benign, but welcome all the same, result of the neglect of Windows 7 and 8.1 by MS, but after reading Woody’s article in Computerworld and also what is written in the Master Patch List, it seems to me that, other than for the .NET updates that are, after all, patches of no great urgency, things do not look too bad this month for Windows 7 and 8.1 Group B.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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So far, Group B up to 6/18 (but skipping 3/18) for Windows, IE, and .NET 4.6.2, everything seems fine on this fresh install of 7 Pro (64-bit).
Time will tell if that continues on… I hope it does, but moving to Group W is no longer something I’m hesitant to do.1 user thanked author for this post.
hey woody.
actually the Intel Microcode Updates released in late July on MS Update Catalog have new revisions-
KB4100347 for v1803 now at V2
KB4090007 for v1709 now at V4
KB4091663 for v1703 now at V4
KB4091664 for v1607 now at V4
KB4091666 for v1507/RTM LTSB now at V3these revised updates contain new microcodes for Intel Xeon® Phi “Knights Landing” & “Knights Mill” CPUs
also the “original” Intel Microcode Updates Microsoft made in late March 2018 are no longer listed on the MS Update Catalog site.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Thanks for all you do Woody.
However…
While you, along with your experts, do a great, nay, mighty job, tracking the running train wreck we call WinX, where is the outcry? Where is the critical mass of fed-up WinX users ready to burn down the walls of the Redmond fortress? Where is the Enterprise saying ‘enough already’? I read the mainstream PC press and there are hardly any reports of the magnitude we discuss here. Are there two populations of WinX users: One – oblivious yet enjoying regular, predictable, stable patches that never interrupt their computing experience, and Two – those of us that participate in this venue – pulling our hair out lamenting a quickly passing golden age of Windows computing?
I urge you to ponder this query – where is the outrage in proportion to the issues we daylight herein? Very interested, as always, in your thoughts on this. Thanks Woody.
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Thanks for all you do Woody.
However…
While you, along with your experts, do a great, nay, mighty job, tracking the running train wreck we call WinX, where is the outcry? Where is the critical mass of fed-up WinX users ready to burn down the walls of the Redmond fortress? Where is the Enterprise saying ‘enough already’? I read the mainstream PC press and there are hardly any reports of the magnitude we discuss here. Are there two populations of WinX users: One – oblivious yet enjoying regular, predictable, stable patches that never interrupt their computing experience, and Two – those of us that participate in this venue – pulling our hair out lamenting a quickly passing golden age of Windows computing?
I urge you to ponder this query – where is the outrage in proportion to the issues we daylight herein? Very interested, as always, in your thoughts on this. Thanks Woody.
You won’t see some of the MVPs here calling Windows 10 a wreck.
And don’t forget that Woody keeps writing 1000+ pages printed books about Windows 10 and keeps releasing edition after edition, updating them in the process.
So take some of the posts here as starters for a more or less heated debate. This is a forum and not a definitive manual for Windows.1 user thanked author for this post.
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Another note, do not criticize Microsoft or you may lose your MVP status:
https://win10.guru/how-i-lost-my-windows-insider-mvp-award/
it is too bad that more powerful MS users do not say more about the lack of quality.
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Wow, the ostracism and blocking is in line with current social media trends, and I know there’s been similar reactions from Microsoft employees over more political disagreements. Telling them to fix something that’s broken and not bothering to even acknowledge it is a new low. Or, at least it is when it’s coming from their Insiders group who should realize it’s their job to fix and test things. Ignoring problems is par for the course for Microsoft in general.
I guess in the end I’m not that surprised, it’s just a new low being reached. Grats MS, welcome to the trash bin.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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One word: monopoly.
Fractal Design Pop Air * Thermaltake Toughpower GF3 750W * ASUS TUF GAMING B560M-PLUS * Intel Core i9-11900K * 4 x 8 GB G.Skill Aegis DDR4 3600 MHz CL16 * ASRock RX 6800 XT Phantom Gaming 16GB OC * XPG GAMMIX S70 BLADE 1TB * SanDisk Ultra 3D 1TB * Samsung EVO 840 250GB * DVD RW Lite-ON iHAS 124 * Windows 10 Pro 22H2 64-bit Insider * Windows 11 Pro Beta InsiderFrom my talking to people there is a strong sense of frustration and anger at MS but there is a lack of knowledge about alternatives. I asked one person what software they used that was Windows only and found out she used 1 explicitly Windows software for a sewing machine. She has a Mac and I suggested to ask someone she knew local to her to set Parallels for her and run the software in it. She perked up at the possibility there might be workable solution to her Windows headaches. A couple of others at the table also perked up when they heard there might be a way to minimize their Windows headaches also.
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If you run Windows in a Parallels VM on a Mac you will need a legal Windows license key (as if the VM were a PC) and you will have to maintain (update) that Windows OS the same as if it were a standalone PC.
Trust me – I have 2 iMacs, a MacMini, a 13″ and a 15″ MacBookPro. They all run Parallels Desktop with a total of 14 VMs (2XP, 4 Win7, 4 Win8.1, 1 each of Win10 1703, 1709, 1803 and Insider Preview)
4 users thanked author for this post.
The .NET Framework updates are not so bad after all. They only affect a non-mainstream little known application named Exchange Server. 🙂
1 user thanked author for this post.
I feel like were in a perpetual update pattern anymore. You have monthly updates, then fixes for updates, then a second round of updates.
1 user thanked author for this post.
Just saying. I installed all 3 updates on my 1803 machine with 0 problems.
Barry
Barry
Windows 11 v23H21 user thanked author for this post.
PK – some Windows 10 Pro updating advice pls:
Running Windows 10 Pro ver 1709, WU settings Group Policy 2, Semi-Annual, 365 Feature Delay, Monthly Quality Updates 30 day delay (time running out).
To-date no Windows updates have come down, but how to handle the now 3 updates released in July, the July Quality KB4338825, the Patch KB4345420, and the new KB4338817.
If I set the Monthly Quality Update delay to 0 days, the July Quality update will come down, but would cause problems if the other later 2 KB’s didnt also come down and install.
And not sure with my other settings that the other 2 KB’s would come down unless they were security rated ???? If not:
Should I let the July Quality KB4338817 come down and then hide it with wushowhide and wait for the August Quality Cumulative? If yes:
Will the hidden July Quality KB automatically disappear from wushowhide when August is released? If not, how do I do get rid of it??
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First off, the Win10 CUs are cumulative. That means the later one contains the earlier ones plus whatever additional updates that have been done since. In that case, the latest CU contains everything up to its release date. KB4338817 fits this scenario.
My experience with settings is this: If you set delay Quality updates = 0, the Patch Tues. CU shows up immediately in the queue. So you know what’s coming and you can hide it. If you set delay Quality updates to any positive number, the updates don’t show up in the queue until the end of the delay arrives. So you are not offered anything and therefore can’t hide it.
In Win7/8.1, you have the Monthly Rollup that shows up CHECKED in the important updates on Patch Tues. It is a Security update containing three elements: security, non-security, and IE11 CU. This is the default.
You also have a Preview Rollup that shows up a week later on the 3rd Tues (or erratically later these days) and is in the Optional updates UNCHECKED. It contains 4 parts: the three parts of the Monthly Rollup released earlier PLUS the non-security fixes for the next (coming) month and I believe it is considered a non-security update.Now, that explanation in relation to Win10. If your settings are CBB/SAC, you see the default security update released on Patch Tues (equivalent to Monthly Rollup). If you settings are (CB/SAC Targeted) you are essentially saying “give me everything” and you will see the Monthly security CU on Patch Tues AND the non-security CUs released later in the month that contain fixes for issues that will eventually be included in the next (coming) month’s security CU. This seems true unless MS changes the status of the non-security CUs to security or important.
If you have an issue with the Patch Tues CU, you can have several choices. One is to uninstall the patch, going back to the previous condition without the issue. Another is to install the non-security CU(s) (“Previews”) that have been released later to fix the issues. But you won’t see any of these patches until you delay is up. And you won’t see the “Preview” CUs if you are set to CBB/SAC. I believe you have to say “Give me anything” to be able to see everything. (unless MS changes the status of the non-security CUs to security or important.)
Now, that is just my experience.
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You are still not understanding. The only one you are going to get with your settings is the KB4338825 CU. To get the others you can:
+ Feature delay = 365, Quality delay = o, Change to SAC Targeted and see if they will show in WU. Both KB4345420 and KB4338817 are non-security.
OR
+ Download KB4338817 from the MS Catalog and manually install it (b/c it contains the fixes in the others).
OR
This is the one I recommend
You can WAIT until the DEFCON number goes to 3 or above and read Woody’s recommendations for patching. He’ll have the right answer and the instructions to go with it.
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@walker See here: general-forum-acronyms
Windows - commercial by definition and now function... -
@Microfix and anonymous: Thank you both for the information you supplied. Somewhere along the way I missed the original comments which started the topic, so therefore am “far” behind. Yes, I am Win 7 x64, Group A, and am sitting VERY quietly not “touching” anything. I appreciate the assistance, and once again say “thank you very, very much”. 🙂
1 user thanked author for this post.
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additional help: SAC and SAC-T for SemiAnnual Channel (Targeted) are specific to Windows 10 updating, as mentioned in Anonymous’s first comment in this subthread. This explains your unfamiliarity, as I believe you have chosen to remain Windows 7. This overall topic covers all the July patches offered by Microsoft, in all versions.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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You want resources for Linux beginners? Here you go:
How to get started with Linux: A beginner’s guide
A Beginners Guide to Linux
https://www.lifewire.com/beginners-guide-to-linux-4090233
The Complete Beginner’s Guide To Ubuntu Linux
https://www.lifewire.com/beginners-guide-to-ubuntu-2205722
25 Free Books To Learn Linux For Free
https://itsfoss.com/learn-linux-for-free/
Top 10 Communities To Help You Learn Linux
http://www.linuxandubuntu.com/home/top-10-communities-to-help-you-learn-linux
Enjoy!
-- rc primak
8 users thanked author for this post.
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First off, the Win10 CUs are cumulative. That means the later one contains the earlier ones plus whatever additional updates that have been done since. In that case, the latest CU contains everything up to its release date. KB4338817 fits this scenario.
You only need one.
and only install KB4338817?
Yes.
And how do you know KB4338817 doesn’t have more bugs we haven’t heard about?
You really should not be making this decision. WAIT for DEFCON 3 or above and Woody’s instructions -
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to PK Cano, Bless you for your patience and helpful explanations. You are a great service to this AskWoody forum. I follow the Defcon 3 or better instructions provided by Woody and the other MVP’s here. Thanks to all of you.
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The whole thing has been explained as best as I can explain it. If you don’t understand, you should definitely WAIT until DEFCON-3 or above.
I don’t use Windows 10, but waiting for DEFCON-3 is definitely what I would do if I did.
Reason? As soon as the word “supersedence” makes an appearance in any discussion of Windows patching, my eyes glaze over at once. 🙂
If anyone here knows of a relatively painless way to prevent MS ‘fixes’ [updates] from being forcibly installed, please lay it out or provide a link.
I’ve searched extensively, but – as near as I can tell, and I’ve been a techie for decades – unless you have the version that lets you modify a Group Policy – it’s nearly impossible.
Would be happy to be corrected, and to discover there’s a procedure that doesn’t require baying at the moon, providing a secret handshake, and other arcane moves.
Thanks.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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Be nice to have you as a registered member here on AskWoody’s forum. It is obvious that you have considerable computer savvy.
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Page 2 link for wushowhide.diagcab instructions by Woody:
https://www.computerworld.com/article/3232632/microsoft-windows/how-to-block-windows-10-april-2018-update-from-installing.html?page=21 user thanked author for this post.
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I decided to perform an experimental procedure on my PC (running Windows 7 SP1 x64,I-7 “Sandy Bridge” CPU), so put some cheery and relaxing music on my Mac (nice little speakers) to get and stay in the right mood to do it, and then proceeded to install all July patches that seemed to be safe enough after following for over three weeks, since Patch Tuesday, what people have been reporting here and elsewhere. So, at this moment, I am fully backed up through July, Group B-style, and apparently all is well.
So I:
(1) Backed up my files, both with software and with data.
(2) Installed all the Office 10 updates and the MS malware removal tool, hiding the revenant kb2952664, once more back from the underworld, and the S&Q Rollup, and also putting the .NET updates on hold until some time in the future.
(3) No restart being required at this point, I then created a Restore Point and proceeded to: (a) stop Windows Update with the command line command (from the command console run as “an Administrator”) typing: ” net stop wuauserv “; (b) install the IE11 update previously downloaded from MS Catalogue; (c) stop Windows Update from the command line, once more; (d) install this month’s Security Only update, once more from the Catalogue; (e) as now required to do, restarted the system and the updates installed. When the system was back up and I logged in, things seem to be working normally, at least those I need to use regularly. Then I shut down the machine, waited about one minute, restarted it, and things proceeded normally once more. When the system was back on, I did a bit more testing, and still things still seemed normal.
So: for now, the patient is recovering, its state remains stable and is apparently functional. If any future adverse effects of these updates are detected, I’ll report back.
After first returning, in case of trouble, the system to is pre-update state using, of the two restore points created for this purpose, either the second or both (the first one created automatically by Windows previous to the Office, etc. updates, and the second one by myself, before installing the IE11 and Security only updates.) It might not be the most complete insurance, as that would include creating an ISO disk image and etc., but that, regrettably, is not my style.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV-
Thanks for the report. I’m glad everything seems OK.
When you say you installed the security only update do you mean KB4338823 or the patch that came out later, KB4345459?
1 user thanked author for this post.
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DrBonzo, Thanks for asking. From what I have been reading, it was not quite clear to me whether I would install KB4338823 first and then KB4345459, so I decided to install KB4338823 only, for now. How necessary, in your opinion, is KB4345459?
According to the document at MS explaining the purpose of this update, this seems to be avoiding problems caused by certain user’s actions that I would never take intentionally. So, unless those are things the OS or its ancillary software may do automatically and without my knowledge, what this update takes care of probably does not concern me. Or at least that is how it looks to me right now. Please, correct me if I am wrong. And thank you for trying to be of help, as you quite often have been.
(Group B, Windows 7 SP1 x64,I-7 “Sandy Bridge” CPU.)
According to the MS document; this update:
- Addresses issue in which some devices may experience stop error 0xD1 when you run network monitoring workloads.
- Addresses an issue that may cause the restart of the SQL Server service to fail with the error, “Tcp port is already in use”.
- Addresses an issue that occurs when an administrator tries to stop the World Wide Web Publishing Service (W3SVC). The W3SVC remains in a “stopping” state, but cannot fully stop or it cannot be restarted.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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I think your analysis is correct, as long as you’re sure none of the 3 situations described as known issues by MS apply to you.
I asked which of the 2 KBs (or both, for that matter) you installed because of a post by abbodi86 here:
https://www.askwoody.com/forums/topic/july-patches-are-all-messed-up-but-a-good-hint-appears-in-japanese/#post-204857The quoted stuff in the above link is from one of my posts. To me, abbodi86 is saying to apply both 8823 and then 5459, or just 5459. I guess if it was me and I had just installed 8823, I would go ahead and install 5459 just to be safe. On the other hand, if you do this and then your machine gets messed up, I’d feel pretty bad.
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Following the preceding entry from DrBonzo, and entirely driven by an abiding desire to advance Patching Science, I decided to continue with the experiment already described further up by installing KB4345459, even while am convinced that is very unlikely to be needed in my PC Windows 7 Pro SP1 x64 , CPU I-7 “Sandy Bridge”, given the way I use and am likely to continue to use my by now 7-year old machine.
After following the procedure already explained in my initial entry here, except for a previous back up, because of it not being necessary after yesterday’s, I installed KB4345459, restarted the PC, and everything looked normal. Then I shut down the machine, restarted it again after one minute, and things again looked OK — and continue to do so at this very moment. If this were to change, I’ll report on it again here.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV4 users thanked author for this post.
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One week to August Patch Tuesday. July patches remain at MS-DEFCON 1. .NET Framework is obfuscated. What is the approach to July patches?
I’ve been wondering about that myself. Woody had posted earlier that he had “given up” on the July patches. And I see that the Master Patch List has already rolled to August.
Could the recommendation be to skip the July patches entirely and wait until August patches are good to go?
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