Which is Best Way To Connect Router

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My PC is about 15 metres away from where the telephone socket is.
At present I’m using powerline adaptors (ZYXel) to get online, but performance is dismal so I want to make a direct ethernet connection.
What I’m unsure about is which is the best option, either leave the router by the telephone socket and run RJ45 cabling to the PC, or run RJ11 telephone cable to the router repositioned by the PC. I suspect the former, but would appreciate any comments on the choice.

Alex

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While you can use an ADSL cable extension you may get a loss in performance – the RJ45 Ethernet cable is the better option.

I do have an ADSL extension cable but have never used it (and can’t even remember buying it 😀 ) but also have a 10m Flat Cat6 Ethernet cable for the occasional connection to my telly.

I got the latter (and probably the former) from http://www.cables2u.co.uk/ but there are other cable suppliers.

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After reading Sudo’s post (#2), I have concluded that perhaps things are a bit different in the UK than in the US. Here’s what I would recommend for a similar situation in the US:

I would put the router where the computers are. In your case, it sounds like that means that you should run telephone cable from the phone jack to where the new location of the router will be.

I had the same situation recently. My router was on one side of the house, behind the TV — that was the only working DSL jack in the house. However, my computers were on the other side of the house. Not really a problem, because all of the computers connected via wifi with no problem. But I wanted the router to be by the computers, so I ran phone wire from the working DSL jack to where the computers were, and installed a phone jack there. I then plugged in the router, and it worked fine in the new location.

This move gives me a few benefits:

* The router is closer to the computers, and so wifi works better.

* I can now plug the computers in via Ethernet cables — I prefer to do it that way rather than via wifi.

* Since the router is no longer behind the TV, I’m sure it works better in wifi mode than it used to.

* I can now see what is going on with the router — I can see the lights on the router.

* It’s a lot easier to get to the router, in case I ever have to call tech support.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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It’s usually advised not to use a phone extension as they aren’t designed to carry a broadband signal and can result in a loss of performance and you can experience a loss in sync speed with added extensions as I have, even when the router was plugged into the master socket.

This is the advice from TalkTalk – https://help2.talktalk.co.uk/can-i-use-extension-cables-my-router

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Given the cost of a 20m cat5 cable (from the site recommended by Sudo) I’d opt for extending the ethernet, not the phone.

cheers, Paul

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Interesting. I’ve always wondered about the DSL signal coming over a two-wire phone line.

So far, for me the wifi connection seems to be faster and better; and by positioning my router near the computers, I am able to use Ethernet cables to connect the computers to the internet.

I have a feeling that in my case, the benefit of having the router out in a clear area rather than behind the TV is outweighing any signal loss from having a longer phone wire.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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What have you wondered? 🙂

cheers, Paul

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I’ve always wondered how the phone company can transmit a fast internet signal over a simple two-wire phone line!

Getting back to the topic of the length of the phone line affecting signal loss, that concern has never occurred to me. And that’s probably because two-wire phone line has been around for longer than I’ve been alive; and it’s just been a matter of connecting the two lines in parallel, no matter how long the lines, and you’ve got yourself a phone connection. That works fine for an old-fashioned analog phone; but perhaps not so well for a DSL signal.

I can see how a much better quality line (Ethernet cable) would have less signal loss than a two-wire old-fashioned phone line.

Still, in my case I think that moving the router to where the computers are was the thing to do, even though the “worst” quality line was the one which got lengthened. But there’s no reason why I couldn’t have used CAT 6 Ethernet cable to extend the phone line — just pick the same two wires on each end of the cable.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I’ve always wondered how the phone company can transmit a fast internet signal over a simple two-wire phone line!

Encoding and pre and post compensation. The same as a USB cable really, only longer and therefore slower.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.992.1

cheers, Paul

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I’ve always wondered how the phone company can transmit a fast internet signal over a simple two-wire phone line!

Good question. I have a DSL connection over the phone line, and the exchange is about two miles from the house, yet I get a reasonable signal. I once had a situation where the actual phone service died, no dial tone and could not make or receive any calls, but I still had a normal internet connection. When the technician came to fix the phone service, I asked him how come I could still connect to the internet, and he didn’t really know. He said something about voice and data traffic operating on different frequencies, but it was rather vague.

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Good question. I have a DSL connection over the phone line, and the exchange is about two miles from the house, yet I get a reasonable signal. I once had a situation where the actual phone service died, no dial tone and could not make or receive any calls, but I still had a normal internet connection. When the technician came to fix the phone service, I asked him how come I could still connect to the internet, and he didn’t really know. He said something about voice and data traffic operating on different frequencies, but it was rather vague.

The data frequency is a lot higher than the voice frequency; that’s why you need to use a filter if you are going to connect a standard analog phone to your DSL-enabled phone line. If you plug in a phone without the filter, the higher frequency will damage your phone.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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The data frequency is a lot higher than the voice frequency; that’s why you need to use a filter if you are going to connect a standard analog phone to your DSL-enabled phone line. If you plug in a phone without the filter, the higher frequency will damage your phone.

Generally speaking “DSL” is most often ADSL (Asymetric [or Asynchronous] Digital Subscriber Line). I.e.: the digital signal differs from the voice signal in that the digital signal is a constant stream of data while the voice signal is “analog” – a waveform signal with peaks and troughs like a radio wave.

The purpose of the filter/splitter is not to prevent damage to phones or modem/routers – rather it is to prevent the analog voice signal from interfering with the digital stream.

I regularly attend customers w/ ADSL connections who have lost their Internet because of a faulty or wrongly connected filter/splitter. And as with most electronic devices “cheap” usually means “shorter life-expectancy”. Usually in such cases it is easy enough to tell if a faulty filter/splitter is the cause by listening to the phone’s dial tone; if the dial tone is erratic and/or there is static present then the first step is to check all the phones’ filter/splitters (the ADSL modem/router does not need a filter/splitter).

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(the ADSL modem/router does not need a filter/splitter).

I’ve just seen this bit in your post.

I don’t know what system you have in Oz but in the UK unless you are using an ADSL Filtered Faceplate, you need microfilters on all used phone points.

The signals are filtered before they get to the modem/router.

http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/splitters.htm

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I’m with Sudo, use RJ45 Ethernet cable where possible, in preference to RJ11 phone wiring.

One point that I have not seen anyone make is that buying cheap cables is almost certainly false economy.

Dell E5570 Latitude, Intel Core i5 6440@2.60 GHz, 8.00 GB - Win 10 Pro

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I’m with Sudo, use RJ45 Ethernet cable where possible, in preference to RJ11 phone wiring.

One point that I have not seen anyone make is that buying cheap cables is almost certainly false economy.

I already had a bunch of two-wire phone cable, so I didn’t have to buy any cable. In fact, while I was under my house running the wire, I ran a bit short; but fortunately the phone company had left some extra wire under my house, which worked fine for me! At any rate, my connection speed and reliability seem to have improved with the way I have done things, so I’m satisfied with it.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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I have read many articles about cheap vs. expensive cables. When it comes to computer cables of all kinds an expensive cable seldom works better. Don’t be sucked in by the marketing lines from most retailers. Just search for “are expensive cables worth it” to read many articles for yourself.

--Joe

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I have read many articles about cheap vs. expensive cables. When it comes to computer cables of all kinds an expensive cable seldom works better. Don’t be sucked in by the marketing lines from most retailers. Just search for “are expensive cables worth it” to read many articles for yourself.

Providing they are both using copper wire then you could be paying for the name, but some of the cheaper ones may only be using aluminium which isn’t better than copper.

British Telecom who own the lines from the exchange in the UK had used aluminium but have since, or are in the process of changing all lines to copper.

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[COLOR=”#FF0000″]rant[/COLOR]

British Telecom who own the lines from the exchange in the UK had used aluminium but have since, or are in the process of changing all lines to copper.

I bet they say that to all the guys 😉 No sign of them even thinking about that from what I’ve seen, they probably have a little get out clause tucked away somewhere.

According to data from Openreach it looks like that you can get fibre broadband straightaway with predicted speeds of up to 15.82Mbps (FTTC).

You are connected to cabinet number 5…

Broadband speeds
Telecoms companies advertise the maximum possible speed your line can receive. However, there are several factors which can affect the actual speed you get:

the length of the telephone cable connecting your premises and the telephone exchange or fibre cabinet
the time of day
how many people or devices use the internet at the same time
how many people are accessing the same website as you
whether your device is connected to the router via a cable or wifi
if connected via wifi, the location of your router
the quality of the telephone cable in your premises
the age of your computer or router
how many applications you are running on your device
the weather.

Heh, no mention of aluminium there, though the figure quoted includes the reduction for “impacted lines” (for months after the cabinet came online, they were quoting 24-30Mbps)… (http://gov.wales/topics/science-and-technology/digital/infrastructure/superfast-broadband/step-two-availability/?lang=en), in an earlier plan for the fibre cabinets, there was to be one ~350 meters from me, the actual cab. was sited ~800m, with ~500m of aluminium en route. It’s not like I’m remote, there are probably 150-200 premises impacted by that alu. cable.

We currently deliver fibre to you in two ways. Sometimes we use a combination of fibre and your existing copper line to deliver our Superfast network (Fibre to the Cabinet). At other times we connect fibre directly to your property (Fibre to the Premises).

No mention of alu. there either (http://www.homeandwork.openreach.co.uk/when-can-i-get-fibre/fibre-journey.aspx).

So I’m stuck paying full FTTC price for 11.65/1.06Mbps average, thanks BT/Openreach.

[/rant] Normal programming has been resumed :o:

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Thanks for the advice guys. Have now ordered 20m Cat7 cable from Cables 2u.

Alex

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Thanks for the advice guys. Have now ordered 20m Cat7 cable from Cables 2u.

Alex

I did not know there even was a CAT7 cable, you made the right decision using the highest CAT available IMHO, the day might have come when you would have wanted it in the walls why run it twice? I am thinking an Ethernet signal would degrade less than an DSL signal and suffer less from interference but could be wrong there…

In any case try not to run close AND parallel to power cables for best results.
:cheers:

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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CAT7 is used for gigabit networks and the cable pairs are shielded). See http://www.loxone.com/blog/enuk/cat7-cable/ for some explanation. When we built our current home, I had CAT6 (also gigabit) cable laid to many rooms. With connected receivers, DVRs, Bluray players…I now find myself with one 16 port HP switch in the wiring closet, one 8 port router in the office and an 8 port router by each of the big screen TVs in the house. The article quoted states that CAT7 cable “lasts longer”…I have no idea whether that is true or not.

K

I did not know there even was a CAT7 cable, you made the right decision using the highest CAT available IMHO, the day might have come when you would have wanted it in the walls why run it twice? I am thinking an Ethernet signal would degrade less than an DSL signal and suffer less from interference but could be wrong there…

In any case try not to run close AND parallel to power cables for best results.
:cheers:

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The reason I know about the change over to copper was when I spoke to a guy wandering up the back lane looking at the poles a couple of years ago and he told me that while he didn’t work for BT, his job was to check which had been changed to copper.

He also said you could tell which ones had been because they had a small black box near the top.

I’ve just renewed my contract with TalkTalk for their medium 38meg Fibre package for £32/month which includes £7.50 for their anytime calls boost and line rental.

This gives you free national calls on all 01, 02, 03 and mobile calls up to 1hr.

Sometimes I’m out of pocket and sometimes not – guess it’s a bit like an insurance as I don’t know what phone usage I’ll have in the coming month.

My wired speed is about 37.5meg and anywhere between 28 and 32meg wireless.

Upload is 1.97 – 2meg.

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The Cat hierarchy is as follows (lowest to highest):

Cat3
Cat4
Cat5
Cat5e
Cat6
Cat7
Nyan Cat
Grumpy Cat
Schrödinger’s Cat

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The Cat hierarchy is as follows (lowest to highest):

Cat3
Cat4
Cat5
Cat5e
Cat6
Cat7
Nyan Cat
Grumpy Cat
Schrödinger’s Cat

I guess I am just playing Cat chup..

🍻

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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Same deal here, like I said, no sign that they even knew about the alu. here until months after FTTC went live. Might just be regional, they probably fired the guys who installed the alu years ago, because they were too experienced… and they could find cheaper.

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I’m never sure what speed I’m going to get from my Schrödinger’s Cat. 🙂

cheers, Paul

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I’m never sure what speed I’m going to get from my Schrödinger’s Cat. 🙂

cheers, Paul

Try yanking its tail and then see how fast it goes 🙂

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I worked for many years as a boilermaker/welder which meant that I had to be very aware of the conductivity properties of different metals. The difference in conductivity between aluminium and copper is actually very slight compared to other metals such as mild steel or cast iron (which have much lower conductivity).

From memory I think copper has a conductivity rating of 17 on the Richter’s scale, while aluminium is rated 15. Those ratings are much higher than steel or iron, while brass and bronze are somewhere in between (I would have to pore through my old manuals to give exact figures).

But when it comes to cost aluminium is far cheaper than copper; which is the main reason most modern mains electricity supply lines use aluminium cables rather than copper.

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DSL is almost always retrofitted to existing phone systems giving you two pieces of equipment on your line, so losing one while keeping the other is not unexpected.

cheers, Paul

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The Ethernet cable rating, printed on the outer insulation (jacket), is the key to choosing the right cable. For “FastEthernet” (100MBps), CAT-5e is designed to deliver rated speeds and good communication up to 312 ft. CAT-6 is primarily deployed in 1000MBps (Gigabit) networks. CAT-7 not a ratified standard meaning that there may be engineering changes in cable specs or communcation capabilites. CAT-7 is deployed in 10 Gigabit networks — it generally will not add any performance improvement over CAT-6 or CAT-5e cable in your application unless your modem and router are Gigabit capable. CAT-5e is least expensive, not cheaply made.
Ethernet cables usually use non-PVC insulated wires, primarily due to communication advantages over PVC. Probably more than you wanted to know….

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