Why didn’t MS stop with Windows 7?

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OK, I’m exposing myself to all sorts of potential vitriolic abuse here, but (sorry) I frankly DETEST Windows 10, after running thru the preview version for several months. And this has gotten even worse after the recent RTM. Reasons:

1. Why did MS keep any fragments of Win 8, since so many people hated it? OK, you can turn off (almost) all of the tiles, but why did they not make a single setting to do this?
2. Why does it load all those junky apps w/o giving you a choice?
3. When you click on most any function, you get this cutesy screen with a gear pix, etc., which is quite annoying. Why doesn’t it just go straight to the function?
4. Most of the commentary is juvenilic, cutesy or worse (i.e., something happened).
5. It does not seem to be any quicker to load/shut down than Win 7. So where is any improvement?
6. Worse, now it won’t let you regulate updates (we all know how reliable MS is in that department, eh)?
7. The crowning denouement is all of the privacy violations, smacking of the NSA snooping. And apparently it keeps phoning home regardless of what you do.

This travesty appears to be a feeble attempt by MS to compete in the mobile market, which they have likely already lost anyway.

But I know what I’m going to do : BOYCOTT IT. To quote an ex-girlfriend, I am going to hold onto Win 7 (and even XP) until they peel my cold dead fingers off them.

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But I know what I’m going to do : BOYCOTT IT. To quote an ex-girlfriend, I am going to hold onto Win 7 (and even XP) until they peel my cold dead fingers off them.

I don’t like Chevrolet.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I don’t like Chevrolet.

Chevrolet?

What has Chevrolet to do with Win10?

Maybe I missed something…

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Chevrolet?

What has Chevrolet to do with Win10?

Maybe I missed something…

LOL, I believe that is a satirical response comparing 1 brand of car to the others out there as the OP is denouncing 1 flavor of windows to others.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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5. It does not seem to be any quicker to load/shut down than Win 7.

I’m dual booting 7 & 10, so same hardware but 7 has more start-up apps. W10 takes 40 secs to boot against 25 secs for W7. (measured by 360 Total Security).
Go figure!

Alex

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Like it or not, people liked XP. So why didn’t they make later versions look and feel like XP? Or at least give you the choice? I suspect that uptake would’ve been quicker, with fewer people going to Linux out of disgust with Microsoft.

After all, XP could be made to look like 9x, and 95 could be made to work like 3.x. Easily I mean, not with add-on software.

Still, that’s marketing for you.

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There is a (computer) generation whose only experience has been with Windows 8, because when Windows 8 was released they yanked Windows 7, and for new Windows PC buyers it was eight or nothing. Now everything has to be backward compatible to accommodate those users.

I’m a Hupmobile man myself. It’s called ‘brand loyalty’.

Microsoft obviously learned lots of tricks to enhance performance that turned up in Windows 8, and giving us a high-performance version of Windows 7 would be the best of all systems for Windows 7 loyalists.

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We wouldn’t have any controversy if Microsoft had allowed the user to choose between the Windows 7 style interface and the tablet interface for Windows 8.x.

That said, Windows is their product, and it’s a free country. They can do what they want with their own products.

And you’re free to boycott Windows.

I’d be interested in knowing, six months from now, if you’re still boycotting Windows.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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That said, Windows is their product, and it’s a free country. They can do what they want with their own products.

And you’re free to boycott Windows.

I’d be interested in knowing, six months from now, if you’re still boycotting Windows.

1. Subject to market success.

2. Where 1. is subject to boycott success.

3. Which success(es) will determine whether Microsoft is still in business.

4. Like Chevrolet, a.k.a. General Motors.

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1. Subject to market success.

2. Where 1. is subject to boycott success.

3. Which success(es) will determine whether Microsoft is still in business.

4. Like Chevrolet, a.k.a. General Motors.

So a very large number, 90%, 99.9%, >99.99%? will buy windows kit without any thought of abandoning Windows.

A very small number, ?%, will boycott them.

The thought of MS going bust in the next couple of years is quite frightening – all those Windows PCs without any security and other updates. Whether you like ’em or not they are the big players in the computer world. If they have to go, a slow decline would be far better. And competition which matches the ease of Windows – even Windows 8 or 10 would be excellent. So come on Apple you have an opportunity here. And Linux, don’t be a minority sport. Chrome anyone? Anything else I’ve not mentioned?

And for statement 4. IBM, ICL, and many others

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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So a very large number, 90%, 99.9%, >99.99%? will buy windows kit without any thought of abandoning Windows.

A very small number, ?%, will boycott them.

See Post #6

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I don’t think MS would be allowed to go bust with so much commerce dependent upon them – some government – probably the US would step in.

Now the thought of the US gov. owning MS is a frightening thought !!!!

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So come on Apple you have an opportunity here. And Linux, don’t be a minority sport. Chrome anyone? Anything else I’ve not mentioned?

Once upon a time there was an opportunity that Apple could have driven a Mac truck through and started off-loading to “certified” systems all across the land…when Vista was released, and it would be another two long years before the void was filled again. Turns out Apple was a little busy putting the finishing touches on something called the iPhone, which in the long run caused even more consternation, churn and turmoil at MS than a Vista-competitive OS ever could have probably.

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Once upon a time there was an opportunity that Apple could have driven a Mac truck through and started off-loading to “certified” systems all across the land…when Vista was released, and it would be another two long years before the void was filled again. Turns out Apple was a little busy putting the finishing touches on something called the iPhone, which in the long run caused even more consternation, churn and turmoil at MS than a Vista-competitive OS ever could have probably.

Apple would never be a competitor. They want to sell with large margins, they are never for the masses.

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Apple would never be a competitor. They want to sell with large margins, they are never for the masses.

Boulderdash, history is the timeline events that matured. So many other possibilities were swirling all the way back to when MS gave Apple bail-out money that those are only retrospective words after the fact. Now one might speculate that Microsoft’s money came with a 10 year non-competitive clause or that Steve Jobs would remain obstinate in the face of a forest fire of opportunity if he didn’t have the iPhone up his sleeve, but those large margins weren’t doing much for the company up until that point.

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Boulderdash, history is the timeline events that matured. So many other possibilities were swirling all the way back to when MS gave Apple bail-out money that those are only retrospective words after the fact. Now one might speculate that Microsoft’s money came with a 10 year non-competitive clause or that Steve Jobs would remain obstinate in the face of a forest fire of opportunity if he didn’t have the iPhone up his sleeve, but those large margins weren’t doing much for the company up until that point.

I always heard the English call it balderdash.

As for the Microsoft-Apple thing, it was about $145 Million worth of non-voting stock which when one thinks about it was a shrewd business deal. The news articles about it back around ’97 indicated it was actually Bill Gates. By keeping Apple afloat as a competitor it helped keep the Justice Department from excessive oversight of a supposed monopoly. All the nay-sayers of Microsoft benefited by having another choice available to them.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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I always heard the English call it balderdash.

Not just the English. Balderdash is a word. Boulder dash is a video game or roller coaster.

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So a very large number, 90%, 99.9%, >99.99%? will buy windows kit without any thought of abandoning Windows.

A very small number, ?%, will boycott them.

The thought of MS going bust in the next couple of years is quite frightening – all those Windows PCs without any security and other updates. Whether you like ’em or not they are the big players in the computer world. If they have to go, a slow decline would be far better. And competition which matches the ease of Windows – even Windows 8 or 10 would be excellent. So come on Apple you have an opportunity here. And Linux, don’t be a minority sport. Chrome anyone? Anything else I’ve not mentioned?

And for statement 4. IBM, ICL, and many others

Apple (iPhone) and Google are already eating Microsoft’s lunch. Linux isn’t going to, I’m afraid; they had as good a chance as they will ever have when Novell adopted Linux back in the day, but even with Novell backing them, there still there wasn’t widespread acceptance of Linux.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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There are a number of reasons Microsoft did not stop with Windows 7.

1.) revenue from new versions
2.) architectural design changes to make a smaller footprint OS that can work on almost any device
3.) architectural changes made to enhance security
4.) Get closer to one code base to simplify support
5.) Get closer to one code base to reduce expenses
6.) architectural changes made to support new hardware – sensors, cameras, fingerprint readers, etc.

Just to name a few.

Joe

--Joe

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So why are MS being criticised for changing things (whether for better or worse) but not Apple or Linux. Current Ubuntu is a very different beast to four or so year old ones – I had a U distro on a memory stick quite a long time ago and used it on an XP PC which had been hosed by a power cut (it was very clunky and slow before that, 15 minutes minimum after booting up before being able to do anything, YMMV). I then used a newer one a couple of years later and was completely lost – it was so different. No doubt I could have worked out where everything was, but my point is – they’re all changing.

And people worry about Windows phoning home so will go to another OS. How does anyone know that the same thing won’t happen to any other OS – or even that it’s happening now? (This is isn’t a rhetorical question BTW).

Just my two pennyworth

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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So why are MS being criticized for changing things (whether for better or worse) but not Apple or Linux. Current Ubuntu is a very different beast to four or so year old ones –
Just my two pennyworth

Believe me I have criticized Ubuntu . I stumbled by with Mint for a couple of years, but BOO BAD UBUNTU crappy IF .Going Mobile , well keep going away from me>>>>.

Just because you don't know where you are going doesn't mean any road will get you there.

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While MS have disowned XP, they are going to be stuck with Win 7 and Win 8.1 users either because don’t want to or can’t upgrade to Win 10.

I suppose the same applied to those who were unable to upgrade to Win 7 or Win 8/8.1, but how many Win 7 machines will survive to 2020 or Win 8.1 machines to 2023 without needing some hardware replacement that could make the repair not viable and probably forcing the purchase of a Win 10 machine.

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Sudo,

I’m more worried if I’ll make it to 2020/3! I don’t buy ripe bananas any more either!
35623-ROTFLOL

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Sudo,

I’m more worried if I’ll make it to 2020/3! I don’t buy ripe bananas any more either!

I often wonder if Win 7 will outlive me which is why I’m not overly concerned about Win 10.

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Sudo,

I’m more worried if I’ll make it to 2020/3! I don’t buy ripe bananas any more either!
35623-ROTFLOL

Try ‘green bananas’. Don’t worry, it happens to the best of us.

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It’s always short-sighted to suggest “why didn’t so-and-so stop with such-and-such”. Time moves on. Conditions change. And vendors want to remain relevant and continue to have a business model.

– for years after Windows 95 was available, huge numbers of Windows 3.x remained running. Same goes for the Windows 98-XP transition, Windows XP-7, and so on. The reasons are a standard mix of inertia, lack of money or time, compatibility, or better comfort with the older stuff;
– it’s bad practice to extrapolate your needs and comfort level to others. Even when we know that Windows 7 was a huge hit and Windows 8 struggled for market share, it’s still a bad practice. When I did user support I always marveled at how 2 people, sitting side by side and running the same software, even doing the same job, would have completely different impressions about how good the software was and how suitable to task;
– Windows 8 had a whole bunch of good stuff in it. I know since I run it. I wouldn’t want to support it in a business environment but for personal use it’s been good for me;
– Critics always forget how fiercely Microsoft was criticized for “not doing anything original”, or “being stuck in the past”. Well, Microsoft did something original and proved they weren’t stuck in the past;
– personally I think touch will be a permanent and important use case in computing. It will be with us forever now. The new horizon is interactive voice now;
– Windows 10 is getting pretty good reviews. Are you sure you aren’t the one stuck in the past?

If Microsoft’s practices are getting to you, why not branch out? Macs are good, Linux is good. Try something new and get a new perspective. No matter how it turns out you benefit.

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BHarder,

Very Well Stated! :thewave: :clapping: :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Simple answer is MS didn’t stop because they can’t stop…that’s what (among other things) they do. Personally I’m happy as a pig in slop with XP…I keep trying the more recent OSes but they just don’t measure up in the ways that are important to me, so I just keep using XP, simple as that. The Great White shark has to keep swimming but I don’t.

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Simple answer is MS didn’t stop because they can’t stop…that’s what (among other things) they do. Personally I’m happy as a pig in slop with XP…I keep trying the more recent OSes but they just don’t measure up in the ways that are important to me, so I just keep using XP, simple as that. The Great White shark has to keep swimming but I don’t.

I liked Windows 2000. I stayed with it until there were just too many things, both hardware and software, that weren’t compatible with it. I wasn’t with XP that long between windows 2000 and Windows 7, it may only have been about a year, so while XP was better than Vista or Windows 8, I was happy enough to go to 7 when it came out.

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I started with Dos – it was brilliant at the time.
Tried Windows 1, 2, 3, but they were not productive or crashed too often. I started using Windows 3.1 – it was magic even though it crashed often and used Program Manager on the desktop to launch applications.
Then came Windows 95 – this was also a major change, but the features and ease of use made it worth while. It had the start menu as the replacement for Program Manager – great and worth the upgrade with the ease of use. But it crashed often.
Along came Windows NT 4 – this fixed the crashes and ease of use was the same.
The need for the USB interface required a small downgrade to Windows 98. The crashes came back.
Windows 2000 fixed most of the crashes with the usability still the same.
I am not sure why I changed to Windows XP, but I did. XP was great without change to the user interface all from Win 95 classic themes.
Didn’t change to Vista due to reports.
Upgraded to Windows 7 because the notebook I bought had it installed. Used Classic Shell for the start menu and used it also for windows explorer so it could be used (had no horizontal scroll bars). I again had the same user interface with the classic theme.

Why am I pushing the fact that the user interface has not changed for me? Because I believe that an operating system should facilitate running programs and get out of the way. Once I know how to use a system I shouldn’t have to re-learn it, except for additional features that I want. To this end I have gone from Windows 95 to Windows 7. I missed out on Windows 8 for this reason.

Now comes Windows 10. My Windows 7 has deteriorated to a point where it is almost unusable (any application minimised and later restored, takes minutes sometimes). I heard that Win 10 has gone back to a start menu and similar to previous Windows. I just updated.
The update took about 4 hours including the download. Then a number of hours to try to make it appear like my Windows 7 (familiar). Of course it has no classic theme, the start menu is totally foreign to me (Classic Shell fixed that) and the task bar is terrible with the system tray icons not having tool tips. Found a classic theme on the internet but it only gives me the colours – still 2 dimensional. It’s like, instead of watching movies it’s watching cartoons. Everything looks flat. It’s even hard to recognise the scroll bars on windows.
The success of windows, I think, was that it could be personalised to any ones preferences from version to version. Once this could not be done people would turn away (Visa and 8 and now maybe 10). I feel I need to move back to 7 and somehow fix the minimising problem or XP where I had no problems (I might have problems with the newer hardware drivers that XP may not recognise and may have to reinstall all programs).
Sorry for the long winded post.
Any suggestions?

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I started with Dos – it was brilliant at the time.
Tried Windows 1, 2, 3, but they were not productive or crashed too often. I started using Windows 3.1 – it was magic even though it crashed often and used Program Manager on the desktop to launch applications.
Then came Windows 95 – this was also a major change, but the features and ease of use made it worth while. It had the start menu as the replacement for Program Manager – great and worth the upgrade with the ease of use. But it crashed often.
Along came Windows NT 4 – this fixed the crashes and ease of use was the same.
The need for the USB interface required a small downgrade to Windows 98. The crashes came back.
Windows 2000 fixed most of the crashes with the usability still the same.
I am not sure why I changed to Windows XP, but I did. XP was great without change to the user interface all from Win 95 classic themes.
Didn’t change to Vista due to reports.
Upgraded to Windows 7 because the notebook I bought had it installed. Used Classic Shell for the start menu and used it also for windows explorer so it could be used (had no horizontal scroll bars). I again had the same user interface with the classic theme.

Why am I pushing the fact that the user interface has not changed for me? Because I believe that an operating system should facilitate running programs and get out of the way. Once I know how to use a system I shouldn’t have to re-learn it, except for additional features that I want. To this end I have gone from Windows 95 to Windows 7. I missed out on Windows 8 for this reason.

Now comes Windows 10. My Windows 7 has deteriorated to a point where it is almost unusable (any application minimised and later restored, takes minutes sometimes). I heard that Win 10 has gone back to a start menu and similar to previous Windows. I just updated.
The update took about 4 hours including the download. Then a number of hours to try to make it appear like my Windows 7 (familiar). Of course it has no classic theme, the start menu is totally foreign to me (Classic Shell fixed that) and the task bar is terrible with the system tray icons not having tool tips. Found a classic theme on the internet but it only gives me the colours – still 2 dimensional. It’s like, instead of watching movies it’s watching cartoons. Everything looks flat. It’s even hard to recognise the scroll bars on windows.
The success of windows, I think, was that it could be personalised to any ones preferences from version to version. Once this could not be done people would turn away (Visa and 8 and now maybe 10). I feel I need to move back to 7 and somehow fix the minimising problem or XP where I had no problems (I might have problems with the newer hardware drivers that XP may not recognise and may have to reinstall all programs).
Sorry for the long winded post.
Any suggestions?

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Why didn’t Microsoft stop with Windows 7? Why didn’t Ford stop with the Model T? Everyone loved it!

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Why didn’t Microsoft stop with Windows 7? Why didn’t Ford stop with the Model T? Everyone loved it!

Speaking of cars, I wish they would have stopped with the 60s muscle cars. Best cars ever made.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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Speaking of cars, I wish they would have stopped with the 60s muscle cars. Best cars ever made.

Wouldn’t work in the UK – we have bends and stuff

Having said that, I’d love a Mustang – just for the sound it makes.

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All you really need in a car is an A/C and a stereo. All of the other stuff puts an unnecessary drag on the car and costs lots of money to repair.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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All you really need in a car is an A/C and a stereo. All of the other stuff puts an unnecessary drag on the car and costs lots of money to repair.

Wheels and seats would be handy too.

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And a heater, too, in the wintertime!

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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D.B.,

Glad someone is paying attention! :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Hi,

IMHO I have no problem with Microsoft ‘improving’ Windows!!! What I do have a problem with is the operating system ‘phoning home’ without the users knowledge and/or consent. Which will be my main reason for staying away from Windows 10. Updates okay, but the end user should have the choice what is and what is not allowed to connect to the internet within the O/S.

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…the end user should have the choice what is and what is not allowed to connect to the internet within the O/S.

G’day mate

If you bothered to look you can choose “what is and what is not allowed to connect to the internet” in Win10.

Go to StartSetting and look through the various options. You can turn off anything that bothers you.

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Don’t the Windows Telemetry Updates still allow MS to snoop – I can’t believe MS would relinquish something like that at just the flick of a switch.

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Don’t the Windows Telemetry Updates still allow MS to snoop – I can’t believe MS would relinquish something like that at just the flick of a switch.

I believe so and that’s why I didn’t install 2 of the optional updates for win 7 that just came out with the IE “Important” update. KB3075249 is for telemetry in win 7, and KB3080149 is for “Diagnostic Tracking”.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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I believe so and that’s why I didn’t install 2 of the optional updates for win 7 that just came out with the IE “Important” update. KB3075249 is for telemetry in win 7, and KB3080149 is for “Diagnostic Tracking”.

Yes, I hid those two as well.

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Don’t the Windows Telemetry Updates still allow MS to snoop – I can’t believe MS would relinquish something like that at just the flick of a switch.

Microsoft does not snoop. This is a cloud based OS. Unplug the internet, and you won’t get a quarter of what it was designed to do. Just sayin’!

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Microsoft does not snoop. This is a cloud based OS. Unplug the internet, and you won’t get a quarter of what it was designed to do. Just sayin’!

Yeah – right.

What do you think those Telemetry and Diagnostic Tracking Service updates were for – everyone snoops, even Google – but at least I don’t have Win 10 phoning home and when I did briefly try Win 10, I unchecked most of those spying options.

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Sounds like you need to reinstall Win 7 and your programs fresh and then make a golden copy image to restore anytime things go haywire and system restore can’t pull you out of a problem you notice quickly. I agree whole-heartedly by the way, the best OS I ever use is XP because it gets the bleep out of the way perfectly and is stable as a granite table (at least for me).
10 is so limited or channeled in the personalization (looks) because it has to be simple sharp block color both for the possibility of touch input and so it will run on the weak-knee mobile devices without too many slowdown issues. The direction of MS OSes is very much divergent from the established practices of XP and Win7 so it comes down to what type of user one is now…an XP/Win7 type or a 8 and up type. I think they are only going to become ever more divergent as time goes on; until third parties stop supporting XP and Win7…then guys like me die and eventually turn into fossil fuel.

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Thanks F.U.N Downtown for your advice. I might first try to do a repair update after returning to Win 7. To do a clean install is a big job with all the programs I have installed. Before I reach that stage, I might try Win XP first and see if it installs. A full backup is difficult since I have 140Gb in my drive C.

If as you say Microsoft’s direction is the mobile direction and leave the XP 7 users behind, I think they will switch to Apple Macs. I think Linux is not a real option since there is difficulty with drivers.

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A couple tricks of the trade when installing XP is to set the BIOS to a legacy mode for the drive bus instead of AHCI (SATA) mode if there are no SATA drivers for XP on any particular motherboard. Also, download a standalone install version of Chrome or FF because I.E.6 is now a non-starter. I.E.8 may still work with XP but if it’s not on the install media you won’t be going anywhere on the Internet.

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A couple tricks of the trade when installing XP is to set the BIOS to a legacy mode for the drive bus instead of AHCI (SATA) mode if there are no SATA drivers for XP on any particular motherboard. Also, download a standalone install version of Chrome or FF because I.E.6 is now a non-starter. I.E.8 may still work with XP but if it’s not on the install media you won’t be going anywhere on the Internet.

F.U.N. downtown I don’t understand what you meant by “if it’s not on the install media”. I understand that of course IE8 has to be available but, I assume you meant that it has to automatically install IE8 instead of IE6. Even if I place EI8 on the disk, how does the setup know it has to install IE8 instead of IE6.

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Oops, yes I customized it long ago (since watching old movies from the 40s) to fit an image in my mind. Balder I get every year but other than that it doesn’t have the mind’s eye meaning for me; like cock-a hoop I keep hearing now for someone who is over the moon happy about a result…well I can see how it’s related to the actual meaning so that makes into my mind’s eye too!

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Given that it has been a bit of a Roller Coaster for both companies – perhaps Boulder Dash was the right term

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Well, I’ve done it, the first step anyway. I restored Windows 7. It took about 15 minutes. I can actually see the scroll bars without assuming where it should be.

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The mention of Chevrolet sparked a thought about why the subject of this thread causes so much debate.
I think it may be because, continuing the motoring comparison, Photoshop, Games, Browsers. Spreadsheets etc are cars but Windows is the road.
Imagine the uproar if roads were re-engineered so that cars all needed to be changed. Luckily it isn’t that easy to change all the roads in a short space of time so car designers have to exercise their ingenuity to make them work in a 21st century way on largely 20th century highways and a wide variety of surfaces.

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Well, whether or not you like Windows 10, it seems we must thank the existence of Windows “any version” for the existence of this Lounge and associated News Letter that keep us all so busy!! I believe that change is good, as it almost always provokes debate (which often induces further change)…all of which is (IMHO) good!

My Rig: AMD Ryzen 9 5900X 12-Core CPU; ASUS Cross Hair VIII Formula Mobo; Win 11 Pro (64 bit)-(UEFI-booted); 32GB RAM; 2TB Corsair Force Series MP600 Pro 2TB PCIe Gen 4.0 M.2 NVMe SSD. 1TB SAMSUNG 960 EVO M.2 NVME SSD; MSI GeForce RTX 3090 VENTUS 3X 24G OC; Microsoft 365 Home; Condusiv SSDKeeper Professional; Acronis Cyberprotect, VMWare Workstation Pro V17.5. HP 1TB USB SSD External Backup Drive). Dell G-Sync G3223Q 144Hz Monitor.

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