Win10 market share up a bit, Win7 down a smidgen, and the browsers haven’t changed much at all

Topic

New Reply

Along with my usual caveat that the statistics don’t mean much – the raw numbers are enormously skewed, the massaging methods run all over the place –
[See the full post at: Win10 market share up a bit, Win7 down a smidgen, and the browsers haven’t changed much at all]

Reply | Quote

Replies

woody wrote:

MS says there are about 800 million Win10 machines,

MS said that nearly a year ago; and as Ed Bott mentioned, MS said more than three months ago that more than 900 million active devices were running Windows 10. Both Ed Bott and MJFoley have said that it’s highly likely there are now close to 1 billion running Windows 10.

Reply | Quote

It’ll be interesting to see what things look like at the end of January; I’d expect the post-Christmas implementation of new devices to have a greater impact than the impending Windows 7 EOL.

Reply | Quote

I’m keeping one of my workstations on Windows 7 Pro with 0patch, due to ongoing bugs on Windows 10 that never seem to stop. If 0patch acts up, that machine will move to Linux Mint. I’ve been a Microsoft partner for over 30 years. The “new” Microsoft is very small business unfriendly, using us as their final test bed for Windows 10. The “old” Microsoft may have been evil when it came to crushing competition, but they sure worked with all their partners, not just the 1000+ seat ones.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

3 users thanked author for this post.

lanceboil, phaolo, Cybertooth

Reply | Quote

I know people who are still using Vista, with no problems at all. They order stuff online, pay bills and run security programs like Norton, Spyware Blaster, Malwarebytes, SuperAntispyware. If you purchase a new PC, you should be able to use that PC until it wears out and not because some company says you have to replace it so they can make more money.

4 users thanked author for this post.

Steve, Geo, lanceboil, Kranium

Reply | Quote

I want to see some retail channel tracking of any Windows 8/8.1 license key sales after Jan 14 2020 on that OS’s remaining retail channel license keys. Between 8 and its 8.1 update there are still millions of remaining valid retail channel 8/8.1 license keys that are being offered online at fire sale pricing. So I’m seeing online windows 8.1 Pro license Keys offered at from $24-$32 and 3 more years of security updates. And that’s a bit lower cost than 3 more years of extended Windows 7 updates(For the limited few that qualify) and Windows 8.1’s UI  can be made look and act more line 7’s UI with some third party OS/Shell software.

I’d still expect that more folks will just continue running Windows 7 and maybe using 0patch/other options  but there has to be millions of remaining 8/8.1 license keys in the retail channels simply because windows 8/8.1 was not very popular compared to 7 before 7 goes EOL. There is not that much difference between 7 and 8/8.1 under the hood that would prevent most older laptops from easily making the transition from 7 to 8/8.1 compared to going from 7 to Windows 10. And millions of Business grade laptops came pre-downgraded to Windows 7 Pro on Business laptops that actually shipped with Windows 8/8.1 Pro licenses.

For consumers that are running Windows 7 licensed PCs/Laptops maybe an 8.1 Pro license Key is the better choice if wanting to avoid Windows 10 until at least 2023. And any of those that purchased a Business grade PC/Laptop that came with an 8/8.1 Pro license with Windows 8/8.1 Pro version downgrade rights that saw the OEM’s shipping those PCs/Laptops(Business grade mostly) with Windows 7 Pro instead can for free re-image their PCs/Laptops to 8/8.1 Pro at no cost and have security updates until 2023. If the Device shipped with an 8/8.1 Pro license, even if the laptop/PC has always been running Windows 7 Pro, then that owner has the rights to  8/8.1 Pro and security updates until 2023.

1 user thanked author for this post.

GreatAndPowerfulTech

Reply | Quote

This doesn’t make a lot of sense. If someone isn’t switching to Windows 10 because of performance or user interface reasons, or because they’re averse to upgrading…. why would they switch to Windows 8.1 instead?  This path takes the user down all the same dangerous roads that come with a major operating system upgrade, introduced many new potential compatibility problems, and introduces new user interface ideas that Microsoft has long since abandoned.

If it’s just the telemetry stuff people are worried about, there are easy ways to turn that off.

2 users thanked author for this post.

GreatAndPowerfulTech, b

Reply | Quote

It’s all the candy crush and bloatware foisting and other stuff(Stability issues with the rapid update cadence on 10) and problems/issues that 8/8.1 does not have compared to 10 and more older laptop hardware is actually been certified for both 7 and 8/8.1 by the OEMs that made the laptops. My laptop(HP Probook 4540s) that came with a Windows  8 Pro license that’s been running Windows 7 Pro, via Windows Pro version downgrade rights, is actually been certified by HP to Run both 7 and 8/8.1 and the online driver support is there as well for both 7 and 8/8.1(Full sets of Recovery DVDs for Both 7 Pro and 8 Pro)

And that’s true for many older laptops that shipped with 7 in its last years of mainstream support(last year of the first 5 years of 7’s 10 year life-cycle) as many laptop OEMs where just transitioning to Windows 8’s certification and mainstream life-cycle(First 5 years of Windows 8 support). So some Windows 7 laptops where actually certified for 8/8.1 as well especially the business grade PCs/laptops running Pro OS versions of Windows where those PCs/Laptops running Windows Pro version OSs needed to be user, or OEM, Pro version down-gradable from 8/8.1 Pro to 7 Pro.

There are many Intel processor generations from Ivy Bridge to Haswell and Broadwell that are certified for 7 and 8/8.1 at the driver level and many OEMs that have working/certified drivers for both widows 7 and 8/8.1. And ditto for AMD’s CPUs/APUs from the same time period as well.

I’m certainly not the only one running Windows 7 Pro on a Laptop, or PC, where the computer that’s running windows 7 Pro was actually Vetted/Certified by that PCs/Laptop’s OEM for both Widows 7 Pro and Windows 8/8.1 Pro. And that support covers all 7 and 8.1 OS variants(Home, Pro, Ultimate, etc)  so 8/8.1 support is a better chance of working for any laptop that shipped with 7, because 7 is closer to 8/8.1 than 7 is as close to 10 on that older hardware.

My HP Probook(Intel Ivy Bridge generation core i7) also supports Secure Boot and the newer UEFI standard and there are settings in the UEFI/BIOS to enable secure boot on 8/8.1. Secure Boot is currently disabled while the laptop is running Windows 7 Pro in legacy mode but that Laptop is getting a new SSD and Windows 8 Pro Installed from the provided OEM recovery media in a few months and security updates until 2023, and the laptop has rights to Windows 8.1 Pro as well, owning to 8 Pro/All 8 versions being depreciated by MS.

All the hardware on the Laptop is too old to fully take advantage of DX12(AMD Discrete mobile GPU of the Terascale generation and Intel Integrated Graphics of the Ivy Bridge generation) anyways so unable to take advantage of most of Windows 10’s newer WDDM feature updates. And there are millions of Laptops running Windows 7 Pro that actually are licensed and vetted/certified by their OEMs for Windows 7 and Windows 8/8.1 Pro/Home/Ultimate, business Grade laptops/PCs especially.

Reply | Quote

Great and legitimate reasons for you and the rest of the small echo chamber here, but they’re not compelling reasons for the vast majority of PC owners.

(Side note: MS is obviously in an echo chamber of its own making too, as they’re listening primarily to folks who are telling them what they want to hear.)

I’d hazard a guess that more than 50% of Windows users have absolutely no clue what OS version they’re using, let alone the capability of installing any sort of upgrade that isn’t forced automatically upon them.

One last thought: in a world where OEMs and Microsoft partners are only allowed to sell the most recent stuff, how many of those “millions” of retail 8.1 keys do you think are actually valid? Perhaps there’s a reason they’re offered at such a discounted price.

Reply | Quote

jabeattyauditor wrote:

how many of those “millions” of retail 8.1 keys do you think are actually valid? Perhaps there’s a reason they’re offered at such a discounted price.

No way to know where they came from or how they got there, but if Microsoft says they’re OK, I’d be inclined to take them at their word.  If MS says not OK, I’d want to be sure I’d bought from someone with a money-back guarantee and good feedback.

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

Reply | Quote

warrenrumak wrote:

If someone isn’t switching to Windows 10 because of performance or user interface reasons, or because they’re averse to upgrading…. why would they switch to Windows 8.1 instead?

Windows 8.1’s user interface is terrible out of the box, but it’s fixable, and once fixed, remains that way.  Windows 10, you’re talking about a moving target that changes every 6 months.  Your preferred theme may not work anymore, the addons you rely on to give you a sensible UI may also break, and even with all the fixes in, you’re still going to be stuck looking at the UWP awfulness if you ever want to change any of the settings, since Control Panel is being chipped away with each release.

When I used 8.1 (the last version of Windows I used), I had Metro Killer installed, so that anything Metro/Modern/TIFKAM (the forerunner of UWP) would simply not run at all.  I was still able to use it without a problem; I used Intel’s ProSet for handling wireless connections and Toshiba’s Bluetooth stack for Bluetooth.  For everything else, like creating new user accounts, I was able to use MMC snapins to replace Metro functions.  I didn’t need to see that nonsense at all.  Metro Blocker eliminated the annoying Charms popout, and in conjunction with Classic Shell, Old New Explorer, and a custom theme, my Windows 8.1 was nearly indistinguishable from 7.  The main visual differences were the centered text in the window titlebars and the appearance of the File Explorer reload button, which was dull and gray compared to the colorful aero-ish button in 7 (apparently it was not themeable, or I would have). I used the same Windows orb as in 7, and the same theme too, so other than those cues, there were quite literally no visible differences between 7 and 10 in normal, day-to-day use.  Of course, if you tried to use Win+Tab to get the 3d alt-tab effect, it was no longer as useful, and things like the network visualization that 7 had were gone from 8.1 as well, but these were minor differences.

Windows 10, of course, is another story.  MS had only just begun moving things to “Settings” in 8.1; by now, they’ve been at it for more than half a decade (and yet it’s still not done).  Tons of functionality have been removed from Control Panel, so if you’re not going to look up the registry entry corresponding with every option (if they are fully represented in registry settings), you’re going to have to use the Settings “app.”  It’s just garbage compared to what Control Panel used to be.

The version of Classic Shell I first installed when I upgraded to 8.1 was the same as the one I’d used in 7, and that version would still work now (and presumably does, if I were to boot Windows) in 8.1, even years later.  By contrast, Windows 10 changed so much from build to build that the developer of Classic Shell gave up and quit the project he created… it was just too much work redoing it every six months.

The same’s true of custom themes… if you like one, better hope its developer is really focused on keeping it up to date, because if not, it won’t be long before it doesn’t work anymore.  Or perhaps Microsoft will someday remove the ability for custom themes completely, rather than “simply” requiring hacking three .dlls to make the non-MS themes work.

Once I got 8.1 looking like I wanted, I was reasonably certain it would remain that way.  With 10, you never know.  The odds that MS is going to fool around with things just because are approximately 1, and that’s not good enough to hang my hat on.

I ported my Windows 8.1 theme to 10 when I was evaluating 10 (1507), and it worked (except for the task bar, which was apparently not themeable, something that hadn’t affected 8.1), but one of the subsequent updates broke it, and by then I had already laid plans to abandon Windows, so I didn’t bother trying to fix my broken theme.  It was probably the very next build, as I don’t think I still had hope that 10 would improve by the time the second feature update arrived.

That’s just the UI stuff.  The other problems, like the lack of control over updates, the lack of a simple, definitive, universal off switch for telemetry, the monetization attempts, the “you’re the beta tester now, but you still have to pay us” thing, the short support time for any given build, etc., still remain.  If they would periodically offer LTS builds that would receive updates for 5 or more years, that would be a lot better.  A return to 10 years of usability with any one version would be even better still.  That way, we’d know that anything we do to hack, slash, fold, spindle, and mutilate Windows 10 into what we want instead of what Microsoft wants us to have will be worth the effort, and won’t be reverted the next time a “feature” build full of features we don’t want is pushed down the line.

 

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

8 users thanked author for this post.

Charlie, SkipH, Sessh, GreatAndPowerfulTech, Cybertooth, ryegrass, Seff, Microfix

Reply | Quote

warrenrumak wrote:

This doesn’t make a lot of sense. If someone isn’t switching to Windows 10 because of performance or user interface reasons, or because they’re averse to upgrading…. why would they switch to Windows 8.1 instead?  This path takes the user down all the same dangerous roads that come with a major operating system upgrade, introduced many new potential compatibility problems, and introduces new user interface ideas that Microsoft has long since abandoned.

If it’s just the telemetry stuff people are worried about, there are easy ways to turn that off.

I’m gonna have to respectfully disagree with you on that. I have been using both W7 and W8.1 side by side for quite a few years now. I have had zero compatibility issues with anything. What works on one works on the other, and vice versa.

Once Classic Shell is installed, the UI concerns go away.

The lack of WMC, which I do use for an OTA DVR, is the only thing I could think of to be an issue. If WMC even mattered to the individual.

I actually think W8.1 is a better system under the hood than W7. In my experience, on equal hardware, W8.1 runs circles around W7, and boots faster than W7 could ever dream of.

YMMV.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Microfix

Reply | Quote

[warrenrumak]

Believe whatever you like — but your personal experiences don’t have relevance to what happens in the wider business world.

A lot of companies have highly specialized line-of-business software that is necessary in order to keep the shop open. This could be manufacturing automation software, point of sale systems, gas pumps, locked down Internet kiosks, digital signage, and that sort of thing.  These are areas where you still find a lot of Windows 7 installations that will need to be upgraded someday.

Upgrading to Windows 8.1 presents a tangible risk for business continuity for these people — no more or no less than Windows 10.

Given that Windows 8.1 is at 5% market share and falling — and it was never a major player in the first place — a lot of software companies are not putting a lot of effort work into testing their stuff on Windows 8.1.  Windows 10 compatibility already gets a lot more focus than Windows 8.1 at big software companies.  I work at one of those companies…. we make software you’ve most definitely heard of, and Windows 8.1 usage is already nearing zero with most of our flagship products. Accordingly, little attention is paid to it, and we’ve officially stopped supporting Windows 8.1 with the 2020 releases of some of those products.

Plus, hey, moving to Windows 8.1 means you have to revisit your upgrade and compatibility strategy yet again in three years.  What’s the upside here?  What’s the business justification?  Who does this help? What do you tell shareholders & investors who could take their money elsewhere? What confidence is shown to the world that you’re investing in obsolete technology?

 

• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by warrenrumak.
• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by warrenrumak.

1 user thanked author for this post.

F A Kramer

Reply | Quote

Business?  Shareholders?

Who said anything about any of that?

Dell XPS 13/9310, i5-1135G7/16GB, KDE Neon 6.2
XPG Xenia 15, i7-9750H/32GB & GTX1660ti, Kubuntu 24.04
Acer Swift Go 14, i5-1335U/16GB, Kubuntu 24.04 (and Win 11)

Reply | Quote

“Believe whatever you like — but your personal experiences don’t have relevance to what happens in the wider business world.”

I never said it did, and to echo what Ascaris said, why are you even talking about businesses and shareholders? Why would you even mention that in this thread? How is that even relevant?

The home user couldn’t care less about your specialized esoteric software only you have heard of at your big corporation.

This thread was discussing the average home user possibly migrating from W7 to W8.1. In fact the thread was originally about market share of OS’s and browsers.

I still take exception to your borderline FUD statement about “dangerous roads” and “compatibility problems”, and needing a “compatibility strategy” for the average home user to migrate from W7 to W8.1.

If browsers, office suites, PDF readers, media players, A/V software, etc, the stuff the average home user uses, can run on W7, it can run on W8.1.

Whether or not that is a prudent move long term is not for you or me to decide, but the individual considering it.

Reply | Quote

Anonymous wrote:

I never said it did, and to echo what Ascaris said, why are you even talking about businesses and shareholders? Why would you even mention that in this thread? How is that even relevant?

Because someone turned a thread about market share of various Windows versions into an “everyone should upgrade to 8.1” thread?

The point made about businesses and shareholders is that major market players (software vendors) aren’t investing time, effort, and funding into supporting products intended for the tiny group of folks who are running 8.1.

It doesn’t MATTER if 8.1 is a great system. Anyone writing software specifically for 8.1 would be doing so because they love the work, not because they can make a living doing it.

You can use it – anyone who has a valid key can install it – but it will have an insignificant impact on 8.1’s share of the market.

Reply | Quote

I had my after-cataract-surgery eye checkup and discovered that much of the ophthalmologists’ special testing and diagnostic equipment was running Windows XP. Some of their record-keeping was done with Windows 7.

I saw no evidence that Windows 10 existed at all.

I understood that an update to Windows 10 was not compatible with the special software running the equipment.

1 user thanked author for this post.

Cybertooth

Reply | Quote

And that equipment costing in the 6+ figure range and that business having to get 10+ years out of that specialized equipment before going to the lenders to finance any newer equipment that may be designed and certified/vetted to work properly with Windows 10.

That’s Why there are some multi-million dollar CNC machines running pre-XP MS OS variants and is the main reason for XP, and now Windows 7,  getting those extended updates for a price offers from MS. Same valid reasons different MS OS’s EOL.

For most Enterprises it’s the costs related to vetting/certifying their mission critical software for any new OS/OS version that will keep the extended update licensing costs the lower cost option until the Enterprise has had a chance to properly amortize their mission critical software vetting/certifying costs($$$$$) for XP.  There where many large enterprises/SMBs that where still running XP 3+ years from the date that Windows 7 was released and those businesses’ mission critical software vetting/certifying timelines that did not mesh/sync up with MS’s 10 year timelines for OS support, that’s just a fact that can not be avoided. But the bean counters for those businesses are surely wanting to get their money’s worth out of that costly mission critical software OS Vetting/Certification expense the more years of use the better if possible.

Reply | Quote

[pHROZEN gHOST]

We see this more each week. Third party software developers (i.e. not M$) are dropping support for older OSes. They want to focus their attention on what’s current.  Even browser developers are doing this.

As the WEB evolves, so too will the newer browsers. But, that won’t be the case for those running older OSes. Security issues and incompatibility will become a reality for those people who choose to remain in the past.

How many people out there still run Windows 3.1 or DOS 6.02 as their OS of choice?

Byte me!

• This reply was modified 5 years, 4 months ago by pHROZEN gHOST.

Reply | Quote

I don’t know how many people are still running Windows 3.1, but I can tell you that I’m one of them!  🙂

Or, at least, I was until late last year when the CMOS battery gave out. Because the battery is soldered to the motherboard (yup, 1993 design), I can’t simply pull it out and pop in a new one. A trip to a computer shop is required, as I wouldn’t dare do it myself.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

1 user thanked author for this post.

Charlie

Reply | Quote

Although it’s definitely not my OS of choice, I still have and old 1993 computer that came with DOS 5 and Windows 3.1.  It still runs and I play old DOS games on it from time to time. I updated the DOS to 6.22.  My wife calls it a “museum piece”.  My BIOS battery has a socket so I can change the battery easily.    🙂

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

Reply | Quote

pHROZEN gHOST wrote:

We see this more each week. Third party software developers (i.e. not M$) are dropping support for older OSes. They want to focus their attention on what’s current. Even browser developers are doing this.

Firefox has only just recently dropped support for Windows XP!  I doubt if a lot of software developers will be dropping Windows 7 which is still current and very much in use.

Being 20 something in the 70's was so much better than being 70 something in the insane 20's

Reply | Quote

Two computers: two operating systems and double the challenges.

From what I can see, software development is gearing up to work in Windows 10 environment and backward compatibility will be a stretch.

On permanent hiatus {with backup and coffee}
offline▸ Win10Pro 2004.19041.572 x64 i3-3220 RAM8GB HDD Firefox83.0b3 WindowsDefender
offline▸ Acer TravelMate P215-52 RAM8GB Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1265 x64 i5-10210U SSD Firefox106.0 MicrosoftDefender
online▸ Win11Pro 22H2.22621.1992 x64 i5-9400 RAM16GB HDD Firefox116.0b3 MicrosoftDefender

Reply | Quote

geekdom: “From what I can see, software development is gearing up to work in Windows 10 environment and backward compatibility will be a stretch.”

If, by concentrating on maintaining compatibility with Windows 10, developers decided to stop applying enough time and resources to keep things backward compatible with Windows 7, that would be a very odd business policy for them to adopt.  Considering that many big Windows 7 users, such as large businesses and government agencies, will be on extended support for at least on more year past EOL and there are going to be millions and millions of small users (like Yours Truly) also continuing to run Windows 7 for a considerable time after Win 7 EOL – as I write this already less than two weeks away. And considering further that keeping their software compatible with Win 10 and Win 7 is what those providers of software have been doing for some years now — something that, apparently, has not quite destroyed their businesses. There is also the precedent of XP to consider, that suggests that continuing to offer support for years and years is doable. But there is no accounting for “business sense”, I suppose.

Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).

MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV

Reply | Quote

One year – All OS

MVP Edit: unsafe Link Removed
https://tinyurl.com/qmgj7rp (Link confirmed to netmarketshare.com)

One year – Windows versions

https://gs.statcounter.com/os-version-market-share/windows/desktop/worldwide

Reply | Quote