Wired, wireless on the same router at same time?

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I have an internet connection using a Cox Cable Modem on a stand-alone Desktop running XP Professional with Service Pack 3. The Cox cable (Cat 6) is run from the house underground in a PVC conduit to the separate building in my back yard where my stand-alone Desktop is located.

I intend to switch my internet service to my local City’s Fiber Optic System.
They will run their separte Fiber Optic cable through the same underground conduit, but leave the Cox cable in the conduit.

Since the Cox cable (now unused) already runs back to the house, I plan on dropping it down into a room that already has a Cox TV cable in it.

From a router in the back yard building, I will connect my Desktop to a laptop (yet to be purchased) in that room in the house – thereby having a “wired” network connection between the Desktop and the Laptop.

QUESTION IS: Can a router be configured to have both a “wired” connection and a “wireless” connection at the same time?

Can someone on the laptop in the house be using the “wired” connection while someone else in the house on another laptop be using a “wireless connection at the same time.

Actually, it really would not be a problem if they cannot both be used at the same time.
I only need to be able to seamlessly switch between “wired” and “wireless”.

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Many routers in the market support wired and wireless connections and all that do, allow the many computers that can be connected, to be connected at the same time.

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The simple answer is Yes. Routers are frequently designed to enable seamless multiple connections at a Gateway. At this location, have at least 8 active hosts on the network at any one time, running with both wired and wireless connections. I can add or remove additional machines as required.

In the UK, most routers are in fact modem-routers, providing either a fibre, cable or adsl modem connection and a router/switch function. They come with dual interfaces on the host network: wireless and wired. One can connect via either wired or wireless, or both. However, I can’t be certain what interfaces your router will have.

Another thought crosses my mind: You note that you will connect the Desktop to to the Laptop over a wired network. I’m not quite sure I get that bit. Normally the laptop would connect to the router over the wireless port (though it could connect wired). The desktop could then connect to the router over a wired connection. The network switch inside the router will enable the desktop and laptop to talk to each other for information and data sharing etc.

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Another thought crosses my mind: You note that you will connect the Desktop to to the Laptop over a wired network. I’m not quite sure I get that bit. Normally the laptop would connect to the router over the wireless port (though it could connect wired). The desktop could then connect to the router over a wired connection. The network switch inside the router will enable the desktop and laptop to talk to each other for information and data sharing etc.

Sorry for not being very clear.

The desktop is intended to be the main computer & will connect directly to the Fiber Optic Cable in the building in my back yard.
The Router will sit next to the desktop. From the Router will be a “wired” connection to the Laptop in the house.

I expect to replace the Desktop sometime in 2012, but must use it for the time being.
Do you see any problems with that Desktop running the older XP Professional with Service Pack 3 & IE 8?

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How does the desktop connect to the internet? USB? Network card?

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How does the desktop connect to the internet? USB? Network card?

The Desktop will connect to the Internet using the Fiber Optic Cable that will be run directly to it.

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The Desktop will connect to the Internet using the Fiber Optic Cable that will be run directly to it.

Steven,

It is fairly rare to find a Fiber Optic Network Interface card in a consumer PC. Usually the FO only gets as far as the modem/router and from there to the PC via RJ-45 cable. I’d be very surprised to find that a City run system would be FO all the way to the PC. :cheers:

P.S. Love your town! We stay there over night both ways when we take our RV to Texas.

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Ruirib and Retired Geek hit the nail on the head with my confusion.

From what you say Steve, you want to connect Fibre to the PC, then connect the router to the PC and finally connect the laptop to the router wirelessly.

A more standard approach, and one that will not casue lots of routing headaches is to connect fibre to the router, then the PC and laptop to the router (let it do its routing / gatway function) via wireless and ethernet.

The attached drawing shows the configuration. The top drawing is what I think you have described what you want to do, while the bottom drawing the is standard method. There are serious networking and security issues if you attempt to implement the first option.

29509-Fibre-Network

Bear in mind this is written from a UK perspective where the router often has a wireless as well Ethernet LAN port plus fibre, adsl or cable on the WAN/Gateway side, so no additional wireless access point is required – in the US, you may require a wireless access point (as per Ted’s description) if your router does not have one in built.

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Ruirib and Retired Geek hit the nail on the head with my confusion.

From what you say Steve, you want to connect Fibre to the PC, then connect the router to the PC and finally connect the laptop to the router wirelessly.

A more standard approach, and one that will not casue lots of routing headaches is to connect fibre to the router, then the PC and laptop to the router (let it do its routing / gatway function) via wireless and ethernet.

The attached drawing shows the configuration. The top drawing is what I think you have described what you want to do, while the bottom drawing the is standard method. There are serious networking and security issues if you attempt to implement the first option.

29509-Fibre-Network

Bear in mind this is written from a UK perspective where the router often has a wireless as well Ethernet LAN port plus fibre, adsl or cable on the WAN/Gateway side, so no additional wireless access point is required – in the US, you may require a wireless access point (as per Ted’s description) if your router does not have one in built.

I guess it would not be a problem to do as you say & connect the Router to the Fiber Optic (using a short 8′ CAT 6 cable), then connect the desktop to the Router using another 3′ CAT 6 cable, then connect the laptop in the house using the now unused Cox Cable (a wired connection).

My Question then is, How do other computers / devices connect “wirelessly” to the same network at the same time that the Desktop & Laptop are connected by separate “wired” connections?

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Steven, the router enables devices to communicate with eachother inside the LAN as well as providing a gateway function between all devices on the LAN and the internet.

The switch will hopefully have wireless and wired port. Communication is seamless with the router managing data packets to be sent between hosts on the internet and devices on your LAN. Also, hopefully, inside the router is a firewall which can block intrusions and data being sent in either direction as per you specification.

If your laptop requests a web page from google.com, your router sends the request to the google web server and waits the reply. Meanwhile your desktop tries to open to cnn.com and the router sends that request to the web server at cnn and awaits the reply. When either or both web servers reply, your router will forward the data packets to the correct host on your LAN. The media that is used to transport the data is transparent to the router. Everything “just works”.

Connect the router to the fibre terminal node using cat5 or similar, then the Laptop can connect over a wireless port on the router if it has one, if not you will need to connect a wireless access point to the router via cat5.

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My Question then is, How do other computers / devices connect “wirelessly” to the same network at the same time that the Desktop & Laptop are connected by separate “wired” connections?

Steven, you WILL want to connect the fiber to the router so as to have your LAN behind the NAT firewall built in to the router. Whether you need a modem depends on the fiber supplier. If they deliver the cat5/6 cable, chances are the modem is in their equipment. You’ll just need a router, not a combined modem/router.

Most new wireless routers provide both wired and wireless connections. You can connect the desktop AND the laptop (via the conduit cable) by WIRE. Wireless devices will connect wirelessly at the same time — HOWEVER — you may have a problem in your SPECIFIC case. If the wireless router is out back with the desktop, wireless devices IN YOUR HOUSE may not get the best signal, if any at all.

If you want wireless access from your house, but the fiber must stay out back, this may be a better arrangement:

Put a regular router (non-wireless may be cheaper) out back and wire the fiber and the desktop to it. Then use the cable in the conduit to connect a Wireless Access Point inside the house to the router out back. The WAP will connect all wireless devices within range to the router out back over the existing cable. This is similar to a wireless router except the router and the wireless transmitter are in separate boxes in separate locations. It will be slightly more expensive, but should fucntion just as well.

Steven, you have an interesting dilemma. DO keep us posted. ~RonR

Earlier Posts (especially #19 by lelandhamilton) already made the points I made. This post is therefore a little redundant.

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Steven,

It is fairly rare to find a Fiber Optic Network Interface card in a consumer PC. Usually the FO only gets as far as the modem/router and from there to the PC via RJ-45 cable. I’d be very surprised to find that a City run system would be FO all the way to the PC. :cheers:

P.S. Love your town! We stay there over night both ways when we take our RV to Texas.

You are right of course.

Fiber Optic does run only to their box which will sit on the outside wall of the building in my back yard (the building with the Desktop in it). Then, “they” run a cable (not sure what, but could be Cat 6, etc.) from their box through the wall & directly to the Desktop (NO modem). Will only be about an 8 foot run. They only do this last step to one (1) computer. If you have other computers / laptops, that wiring is left to the homeowner – hence my need for the Router, using the no longer used Cox Cable to have a “wired” connection to a laptop in the house, & wanting a wireless connection for any other computers / devices.

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I think the proper connection should be wire coming into house to modem from ISP, ethernet cable from modem to wireless router, ethernet cable from router to desktop PC input. If laptops have wireless capabilities, they will connect wirelessly to the wireless router.

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Of course, the suggestions by Retired Geek, Ted and Tinto all make sense. In order to provide you a more flexible solution, if you have that option, get the router to connect to whatever interface device is provided by the Fibre provider. You can then connect as many computers, consoles or other devices to the network as it pleases you, all with internet access.

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The wireless router will have a transsmitter that the receiver on your laptops will receive (this is a VERY simplistic rendition of what happens) Or it may be the other way around where the laptops have a Wi-Fi radio that transmits to the receiver on the router. Not really sure which, but not germaine to the discussion. As stated by others, most modern wireless routers allow wired connections through ethernet cables (mine allows up to 4 wired connections) and built in wireless radios that allow connections by compatible laptops or wireless devices on remote desktops.(my Nook Color’s and Wi-Fi enabled smart phones can connect to the router as well.)

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Yes, my ATT U-verse router handles everything like your’s Ted.

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here is what I would do:
1 I am fairly sure the wire coming from the outside box is somewhere terminated INSIDE directly to a Modem. the Modem usually belongs to the supplier.
2 from the modem they will connect a regular Ethernet cable to your PC.

Now comes your part:
1 unplug the ethernet cable and plug it in to your new wireless router where it says WAN or something like that. this is your input to the router.
2 use another ethernet cable and connet it to one of the other receptacles on the router and your computer.
power everything up and see if you have internet. you shouldifn byo had it before.
3 go to your labtop and switch it on. If the signal from the router is strong enough, it should also work.

If it does NOT connect to the wireless signal, I would pull in a cat 5 or Cat 6 wire , connect a J45 plug on each side and , plug it in to the router next to the PC and in to the Labtop on the other end.
or buy a second router which you locate inside your home for the Labtop if it needs to be portable.
Please note, sometimes providers offer you the primary modem together with a powerful router.. ask them about it.
also investigat from your local computer shop the possibility of a powerfull router which would cover the distance from your outside office to your home.
but, then again, what do I know…I pulled cat wires to 4 shacks on my property with up to 250′ distance. they are all fed from one router and each one runs a PC or another small router.
all works fine. we can even use the whole setup as a home network.

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here is what I would do:
1 I am fairly sure the wire coming from the outside box is somewhere terminated INSIDE directly to a Modem. the Modem usually belongs to the supplier.
2 from the modem they will connect a regular Ethernet cable to your PC.

There is NO modem at all. The cable coming from the outside Fiber Optic box of the City goes directly to the the Router. I think the theory there is to avoid as many separate connections as possible to maintain the fast speed of the Fiber Optic system.

I will put the Router next to the Desktop & then “hard wire” the Desktop to the Router and also “hard wire” the Laptop in the house to the Router.

What I am having a problem understanding is what else do I have to do to the Router, etc. to be able to also connect other computers / devices “wirelessly”?

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You probably want to install the wireless router somewhere near where the wireless devices are to be used, i.e. somewhere in the same building. This might mean putting the router in the main building and running Ethernet to the outbuilding, using an antenna reflector on the antenna in the outbuilding to strengthen the signal received in the main building, or daisy chaining two routers.

If wireless devices are used in both locations and an antenna reflector does not provide enough coverage; or multiple devices are to be cable connected in both buildings, a 2^nd router direct cable connected to the 1^st router may be needed to provide coverage in both locations. If only wireless devices are to be used in one building, see the last paragraph about antenna reflectors. You might be able to get by with only one router.

The following discussion addresses the case where a router is needed in each building to provide direct connections or because the reception from one router is insufficient in all required locations, and an antenna reflector has not solved the problem.

If your computer file sharing, printers, and file servers are used network wide, they should be connected to the 1^st router. Note that a computer on the 1^st router will not be able to get to devices such as printers or other computers on the 2^nd router, although computers on the 2^nd router can reach devices on the 1^st router. This is due to NAT (Network address translation) where the router changes the IP Address and port of Ethernet data so that the data will come back to the router, which keeps track and routes the response back to the original address and port. There is no way to directly address a computer or device that is connected to a router from outside the router, unless a “DMZ” or specific port routing is set up in the router.

Before you purchase any routers, make a network diagram or list showing the connections to each router of all of the directly connected devices, including the direct connection of a 2^nd router’s WAN/LAN port to the 1^st router. Make sure that the routers you have or purchase will provide enough direct connections for the associated devices and potential for growth.

If device sharing is not an issue you may want to connect the 1^st router (the one connected to the providers internet modem) in the location with the greatest use (or need for speed) and run an Ethernet from the 1^st router to the 2^nd router. The 2^nd router data will have to go through an extra hop (the 1^st router) to get to the outside. (HOP: each time an Ethernet packet of data goes through a device such as a router, switch, etc. is called a HOP.) If wireless connectivity is not needed in one of the buildings, a switch could be used instead (sometimes cheaper than a router, especially if purchased through an online store such as Newegg), but the next day you will want to take your laptop to the building with the switch.

Make sure to change some defaults on the routers by connecting the router to a computer using Ethernet cable (this does not have to be a permanent connection, such a laptop that is to be used wirelessly after setup). Some routers have only one port that can be used for setup. I suggest reading through the steps before starting to make changes, as there are some alternatives. On each router:

[*]First, change the router’s administrative password
[*]I recommend that you set your 1^st routers LAN/WAN IP address to something other than 192.168.1.1, e.g. 192.168.111.111, unless you already have a working network and don’t want to change it. Set your 2^nd routers IP address to another value, making sure that the 3^rd octet (xxx in 192.168.xxx.yyy) does not match the 1^st routers. This simplifies avoiding DHCP IP Pool address range conflicts with the 1^st router). Attach a label to the routers with the assigned IP address or a name and keep good notes. (Everyone else expects devices to be at default 192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, etc and DHCP starting at 192.168.1.100. Using different IP address ranges may make devices harder to find if someone cracks your wireless router security.) If you have someone helping you, make sure that they know the unusual IP address that you have used.
[*]The network mask on the 1^st router should be 255.255.0.0 (to allow the directly connected 2^nd router to have a different 3^rd octet). The network mask on the 2^nd router should be 255.255.255.0 so that LAN addresses on the 1^st router can be reached. All devices on the 2^nd router should match the 1^st 3 octets of the IP address assigned to router because of the network mask. Any device connected to the 1^st router that is to be reached by the 2^nd router can not have an address matching the 1^st 3 octets of the 2^nd router, as such an address is presumed to be attached to the 2^nd routers ports. I would typically assign addresses matching the 1^st router’s 3 octets to devices connected to the 1^st router.
[*]Note as an alternative, you might be able to use the same 3 digit octets for all devices, splitting the network into two pieces of 128 addresses each. This uses a network mask of 255.255.255.128 and all devices in the range from 192.168.xxx.1 to 192.168.xxx.126 would be connected to one router, and 192.168.xxx.129 to 192.168.xxx.254 would be connected the other (where xxx is an arbitrary number from 1 to 254). The DHCP Pools would have to be modified to hand out addresses for the associated address ranges. I have used this approach in the past.
[*]Change SSID (name shown when connecting wirelessly),
[*]Set security to highest acceptable to connecting devices and change the wireless key. This may mean trial and error, especially if you have handheld gaming or other devices that don’t support the more secure options.
[*]Use different channels for each router,
[*]Set up DHCP and/or MAC/IP assignments to other IP addresses typically with the same first 3 octets (digits separated by periods) and a different 4^th octet, e.g. 192.168.222.223 (192.168.xxx.xxx and 10.xxx.xxx.xxx are reserved address ranges for local intranets such as those behind routers and firewalls.). Enable DHCP for ease of connecting other devices, and possibly change the range of addresses. You also can set fixed addresses for some devices using their MAC address. (If you provide MAC addresses with fixed IP addresses for all devices to be connected, you can then turn off DHCP until it is time to add another device. Turning DHCP off will help to prevent rouge connections.) Note: The actual address seen by the outside world is an internet IP address of your network provider or for your internet modem if assigned a fixed address, not a 10.xxx.xxx.xxx or 192.168.xxx.xxx address.
[*]I also provide a different set of DNS server addresses from OpenDNS.

Once the routers have been configured, try them out in the final configuration. It may take several tweaks to get things right. Note that other devices such as Ethernet connected printers and wireless handheld gaming devices may require configuration changes such as a fixed IP addresses for the printer, or security keys and related parameters for wireless devices.

From experience, the farther the wireless connection, the lower the reliability. In my house the router is located on one side of the house, and the gaming computers are on the other side. I use an antenna reflector (aka cantenna because some are made from containers such as a Pringles or other aluminum lined “can”) made with cardboard from a cereal box and aluminum foil to increase the effective gain in the direction of the gaming computers which increases reliability, which also has a side effect of reducing signal strength in other directions, such as the neighbors houses and the street. There is still sufficient signal strength in the vicinity of the router. (Directions are available on the internet. Some directions show actual antenna patterns, i.e. relative signal strengths in various directions.) I was almost to the point of getting a 2^nd wireless router before I tried the antenna reflector.

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Did you configure the router to support wireless access? This means giving the network a name, specify encryption to be used, etc?

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I would just connect the Router to the Fiber Optic in the house instead of in the separate building in the back yard.

But then, to “hard wire” the Desktop in that building in the back yard would mean using the now unused Cox Cable that is already there – but it is about 150 feet long.

Since the Desktop will be the primary computer, I would rather not have a 150 foot cable between it and the Fiber Optic box so that I could get the most speed possible on the Desktop instead of on the Laptop.

I am assuming that a 150 foot run of CAT 6 cable would reduce the speed I would otherwise get from the Fiber Optic System. At least reduce it a little. Does anyone know just how much the speed would be reduced by a 150 foot CAT 6 Cable?

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I’m a little late in reading this, but, back to basics: here’s a recent article, with very helpful illustrations, from how-to geek pertinent to this thread:
http://www.howtogeek.com/99001/htg-explains-routers-and-switches/

You want to make sure your router is wireless 802.11n, AND, that your network adapters are also 802.11n. If your built-in OEM ones aren’t, use USB 802.11n plug-in ones. The specific reason is faster speed.

Also consider dual-channel routers AND network adapters; that’s 2.4Ghz and 5Ghz. (In the U.S., there’s a lot of competition/interference at 2.4Ghz.) Your Ethernet cables should be cat 6; that gives you theoretical speeds up to 1000Mhz. If you don’t need them now, you’ll be ready when you do.

Good Luck!

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” Does anyone know just how much the speed would be reduced by a 150 foot CAT 6 Cable?”

Yes: it will not be reduced at all. Even in the unlikely event that you’ve got 10Gbit ethernet ports both on the incoming modem and on your desktop, Cat6 will handle the full bandwidth at 150′ (though to get all the way up to the normal 300′ distance at 10 Gbit/sec you’d need Cat6a) and shortening the distance won’t increase it unless both ends of the connection are capable of negotiating speeds faster than their rated ones.

Of course, your cable service is unlikely to provide anything like 10Gbit/sec Internet bandwidth anyway. Or even 1Gbit/sec. Or perhaps even 100Mbit/sec (though that’s getting into the range that is starting to be available in some areas, just not out in the sticks were we live). So plain old Cat5 or at most Cat5e cabling should be completely adequate for your needs, up to its 300′ design limit at its rated bandwidth.

Placing a router between the incoming modem (assuming that it’s not an integrated modem/router already, as your last post suggests) and your desktop shouldn’t reduce speeds either as long as the router’s ports are rated at least equal to the lesser of the modem’s and the desktop’s (or even lower, as long as they’re rated somewhat above the maximum bandwidth of the Internet connection being supplied, though another consideration may be maintaining peer-to-peer performance among the devices in your home network).

Mixing wired and wireless connections to the router is no problem on any router I’ve seen, and given that the norm for wired connections is usually only 4 (plus the modem WAN link) using additional wireless connections significantly expands the number of devices you can use it with (though for wired connections an inexpensive switch can do that as well). Just select a router that supports the wired and wireless bandwidths that you want.

Edit:

Oh, lesle: I have no idea why this forum software sometimes ignores double-spacing between paragraphs. It did that with me for a while, and as I recall inserting a pair of br instructions (each one enclosed in angle brackets) made appropriate paragraph breaks appear. But now it’s behaving better, at least for me. Do you by any chance have scripting disabled (I use NoScript on Firefox, but usually tell it not to suppress scripts here)?

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@lesle and @-bill,

Check this post for information on the Message Editor Interface your user profile is currently using and how to change it.

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