With Sets now jettisoned, the worthwhile feature list for the next version of Windows is vanishing

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Microsoft has officially announced that “Sets” — the feature that lets you use tabs inside any Windows window — won’t appear in the next version of
[See the full post at: With Sets now jettisoned, the worthwhile feature list for the next version of Windows is vanishing]

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HiFlyer, abbodi86

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Woody, you wrote that:

Stardock pioneered many of the features you’ve seen (slightly mangled) in Windows 10, including Fences for grouping desktop icons. Start10 remains one of the few Win10 Start menu replacements that’s still supported. Microsoft should’ve bought Stardock a decade ago. But then, I guess that isn’t the Microsoft Way.

Personally, I am glad that Microsoft did NOT buy Stardock. I suspect that if they had, the ideas the Stardock people have introduced would have gotten buried in layers of bureaucracy, or suppressed because they put  Mother Microsoft to shame… not to say that some of those ideas (like the Start menu replacement for Windows 8) have run counter to the direction that MS honchos want to take.

 

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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GoneToPlaid, lanceboil, HiFlyer, woody, Karlston

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Microsoft actually decided not to throw another new feature in an upcoming release? Impossible! 

Red Ruffnsore

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HiFlyer

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Microsoft should’ve bought Stardock a decade ago. But then, I guess that isn’t the Microsoft Way.

It used to be.

Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server

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HiFlyer, BobbyB, WildBill

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Stardock’s Groupy as discussed is the sets equivalent, or vice versa.  I purchased Groupy and I have to admit, using it is addicting and makes many tasks more efficient.  Stardock’s applications are especially great for Win 8.1 users.  There are merits to running Windows 8.1 and Stardock.  As mentioned on this site, Win 8.1 is a way to skip the Windows 10 Feature Update plan (or should I say pain) until 2023.

Highly recommended.

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HiFlyer, Karlston

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“Microsoft should’ve bought Stardock a decade ago. But then, I guess that isn’t the Microsoft Way.”

I remember ages ago, MS’s way was to insist the company provide the service for free, eg Stacker and Adobe Type Manager. When the companies (understandably) refused, MS would then use (by purchasing or other means of coercion) a competitor (eg DriveSpace and TrueType).

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HiFlyer, WildBill

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I have an Insider build in a VM which was updated to 17704 yesterday, and I’m finding that Sets is still active after the update/restart.

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te  Sets is still working, but the “+” tab doesn’t do anything now in any application except Edge. Also I noticed the Edge icon has “BETA” written across it now. Maybe the Sets people and the Edge people weren’t communicating and managed to break Sets between them.

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HiFlyer, GreatAndPowerfulTech

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We can only hope this makes them dismiss (with extreme prejudice) the notion that twice yearly updates are a good idea, and maybe instead divert the time into patches and getting things right there. How any company can continually want and try to add new features to a product that they continue breaking and messing up is beyond me. Fix the broken puzzle you already have; don’t just take a new one out and duct tape it to the one sitting on the table that’s unfinished.

As a Win10 user I feel even more at a crossroads than ever before.
I’m fine with 1709, but eventually they’ll try to force me to 1803 or 1809 and I don’t have any incentive to go to either of them at this point. I may just finally throw in the towel on 10 again and reinstall 7 this weekend, because if I’m spending an hour or two reimaging machines and tweaking how I like, I might as well get it to a point where it will stay that way – instead of continuing on 10 where any future upgrade (including the future one I’m destined to eventually get) is likely to flip switches that I’ve flipped myself, just because MS wants them “the other way”.

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HiFlyer, WildBill, Cybertooth

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We can only hope this makes them dismiss (with extreme prejudice) the notion that twice yearly updates are a good idea, and maybe instead divert the time into patches and getting things right there.

It would be nice if this was applied to the mad rush of updates Mozilla and Google have taken to for their browsers too. Maybe looking at how to make Edge competitive with these two is what encouraged MS into this Windows update madness in the first place.

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Karlston, HiFlyer, Cybertooth

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How any company can continually want and try to add new features to a product that they continue breaking and messing up is beyond me. Fix the broken puzzle you already have; don’t just take a new one out and duct tape it to the one sitting on the table that’s unfinished.

Chrome & Firefox may be updated more often now, but except for Firefox occasionally crashing, I’m not having any current problems with it. MS may be trying to compete with Stardock’s products, but like updates to Win7 & Win10, they get ahead of themselves & break Windows. Or as others have said, they’re trying to improve Edge & Office, yet they screw them up too. Be sure you Get it Right, or Wait until you do. I have no problem with MS scheduling service packs feature updates a year or 2 apart. This “every 6 months” c** is Ridiculous!

Bought a refurbished Windows 10 64-bit, currently updated to 22H2. Have broke the AC adapter cord going to the 8.1 machine, but before that, coaxed it into charging. Need to buy new adapter if wish to continue using it.
Wild Bill Rides Again...

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HiFlyer

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Surprisingly, even though Google and Mozilla have pretty intenses six-week update cycles for their browsers, I’ve never had any problems with them. Their updates always install smoothly and painlessly and I’ve never found any major issues with their updates; after updating everything was still stable and I could still use my browser in more or less the same way I did before.

Of course, these are web browsers we’re talking about, not entire operating systems. It’s much easier to update a web browser than an operating system, I figure. If Microsoft wants Edge to compete against the other browsers, Edge needs to be capable of updating independently of Windows Update. Also, if Microsoft really wants to take ideas from the other web browsers, their upgrades need to keep your operating system in more or less the same state as it was before you updated.

There is also the problem with upgrading Windows (which I’ve heard was never really designed for this kind of updating) and upgrading other operating systems, like Android. Windows is pretty old now; trying to foist a new upgrade scheme on it is like pouring new wine into old wineskins — the old wineskins will burst. Android, on the other hand, was kinda designed to be upgraded like this. But then again, Android updates are determined by the manufacturer, and the device manufacturer’s the one that decides whether or not their devices get the updates or upgrades, not Google (unless you have a Pixel phone). Microsoft, on the other hand, decides that everyone should get the upgrades, not the manufacturers, which means that an upgrade that installs flawlessly on their own Surface devices (which, funny enough, they don’t) might not work on a Dell or Acer, or a custom-built computer.

In short, the six-month upgrade cycle is not necessarily a bad idea… it just can’t be used with Windows. Sorry Nadella, but maybe you should take a look at how people use Windows these days and just let Google and Apple take the lead with their own operating systems. You still have a monopoly with businesses, so why don’t you start listening to them and giving them what they want?

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AlexEiffel

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Android updates are determined by the manufacturer, and the device manufacturer’s the one that decides whether or not their devices get the updates or upgrades, not Google (unless you have a Pixel phone). Microsoft, on the other hand, decides that everyone should get the upgrades, not the manufacturers, which means that an upgrade that installs flawlessly on their own Surface devices (which, funny enough, they don’t) might not work on a Dell or Acer, or a custom-built computer.

And on top of everything, AFAIK Android will not force an OS upgrade on the user. Android may nag you to install its latest and greatest version, but I’m not aware that it will set a hard deadline to do it and take over your screen with an upgrade demand notice, like Windows 10.

Keep Running Windows 7 Safely for Years to Come  
Make Windows 10 look and work like Windows 7

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While I no longer use Firefox proper thanks to Quantum (I switched to Waterfox half a year in advance since I knew what was coming from when I used to use Developer Edition/Aurora as a daily driver and have a bunch of extensions I use that won’t be able to converted to WebExtensions), Firefox at least does let major feature changes bake on the Nightly track for as long as needed before the devs feel they are stable to go down to Beta, and are willing to push back the announced timeline back on what features go into Release from Beta as well IIRC (although that’s really rare, since by the time something makes it into Beta, a feature is only supposed to need final polishing and bug testing). That said, those features are still being actively tested by Nightly users, unlike in this case with Sets. The Sets situation is again where MS needs a dedicated QA team – they should have already done the initial testing, so what the Insiders were doing should have been more like normal final beta testing. Mozilla can get away with unpaid volunteers testing their Nightlies besides their in-house developers, since it’s a browser – MS can’t, not with the scale of Windows.

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HiFlyer, Karlston

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It would surely be better to get annual OS upgrades with offset semi-annual ‘Feature’ upgrades.

(and back in the real world..)

Windows - commercial by definition and now function...

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Why would I want to use “tabs” on an operating system called “Windows”?

We DO have a Taskbar, the ultimate tab manager of, well, all those windows.

-Noel

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lanceboil, HiFlyer, GreatAndPowerfulTech, radosuaf, WildBill

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I think MS may have run out of ideas for what to put in their updates (6 months cycles would understandably exhaust most idea streams – another reason why the short cycles are a bad idea) so are copying third-party software that seems popular – in this case the one mentioned from Stardock.

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Noel Carboni, HiFlyer, Cybertooth

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I think MS may have run out of ideas for what to put in their updates

Stability?

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BobbyB, Karlston

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I’d be fine with Microsoft calling bug fixes features. They can add them all they want over releases and probably never run out of ideas.

Rock

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Karlston, Cybertooth

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I like Workspaces in Linux. You can group open programs to suit your work flow. Not really familiar with Sets or Stardock. I find using the Windows taskbar annoying as it does not fit my preferred work flow.

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HiFlyer

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Why would I want to use “tabs” on an operating system called “Windows”?

We DO have a Taskbar, the ultimate tab manager of, well, all those windows.

Now I’ve been studying both Ms and StarDock and don’t really see how they are useful. To me at least… so have come to exact same conclusion.

Perhaps it’s because I only opens the windows related to current task? Usually 2 to 4 windows at the max… hates clutter and my little brain don’t even attempt to pretend it can manage more than one job at the time anyway.

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What I remember of Stardock was from back in OS/2 2.0 or 2.1 days, and then Warp 3.  That’s ancient history now, but maybe grudges last a long time.

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HiFlyer, BobbyB

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Don’t get me started on OS/2…

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This is a bit “old hat” here and I know I am “preaching to the converted” but if they could have got “Sets” to work and added “Timeline” and a rumoured “Dark feature” appearance for “Explorer” to the next version 1809(10 or 11) that might actually be worth waiting for. Say use the time left over for quality improvements, Bugs, Nuances etc and just say make it an annual release. I suppose I could live with that. The Register this Morning had an interesting take, although I am not sure I share their confidence: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/28/sets_scrapped_from_windows_10/

Ultimately, ordinary users are going to be hard-pressed to notice much difference when the release is finally emitted, and this is a good thing. Pulling technology such as Sets is a sign that Microsoft is focusing more of its efforts on quality this time around.

Ahh well we live in hope.

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HiFlyer

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Irritate the daylights out of people with 6 month releases then “relax” it to 1 year and make everyone happy.

Um, no. 3 years, not a minute shorter.

It’s an operating system, not an application and it needs to be stable like a rock so things that are actually useful can be built with and on it.

I’m not budging on this.

-Noel

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AlexEiffel, Karlston, Elly, Ascaris

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I can’t see why a lot of the new “Features” that have been pushed out lately can’t be provided as add-ons from MS store or elsewhere. The Stardock app doesn’t need a new OS to work.

Perhaps MS should keep the OS and features separate, and as you say only update the OS every 3 years whilst having optional features arrive when they are ready and be used by those who are interested.

The only real necessary updates would then be security patches of the existing OS.

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AlexEiffel

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So Microsoft still struggles with doing what others already have done? Amazing. Hey Microsoft, how about focusing on making Windows 10 stable and less about introducing new features. That would impress a lot of Windows users more.

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Karlston, lanceboil, Cybertooth

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Microsoft has shut down the Windows 10 feature roadmap site (still linked to from Windows 10 update history sites) long ago so nothing new to expect for Windows 10. Maybe a future version of Windows (Windows 11?) gets some new features. Of course, it would be even better if Microsoft would remove all the junk to get Windows 10 performance on par with previous versions. At this time, Windows 10 is the slowest Windows version ever. Just ridiculous.

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Noel Carboni

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They don’t have remove anything, when I just can log in at my Microsoft account and pick the exact “edition” I want. Once finished picking options, features, apps and what not, my setup can be downloaded as a mean and lean ISO, ready for install…

nLite? Anyone?

Alas Microsoft thinks it’s better we get every-thing. Whether we want or not. Over and over and over and…

Sigh.

Who mentioned dreams?

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anonymous wrote:

At this time, Windows 10 is the slowest Windows version ever. Just ridiculous.

It’s not unreasonable that a new version of an OS that does unprecedented new, useful things – especially in light of more and more powerful hardware – might be a bit bigger (and thus slower) than its predecessors… Consider Vista, for example, vs. XP. At first (e.g. for about the first year) Vista seemed like a real dog, but then we began to see the beauty in its architectural advancement.

However, with NOTHING new architecturally that’s useful and just a different way of presenting things what we have now in Windows 10 is not really reasonable. Vista at least brought many serious new architectural improvements. Windows 10 has brought… The least secure, most bloated Windows ever that runs applications on new hardware about as well as the old hardware ran them with Windows 7.

How many new Windows 10 versions need to be released before Microsoft finally realizes that new operating system features don’t involve anything to do with Apps. We’ve already SEEN web pages, Redmond folks. They can only be so useful…

In case it’s too hard for young folks to remember, because they played XBox until 3:30am and toasted their brains, new OS features are things like I/O subsystem improvements, increased resilience to failure, better memory handling ability, a MORE integrated user interface, subsystems that facilitate and reduce the cost of new, complex, useful application development…

-Noel

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AlexEiffel, Karlston, Ascaris

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Noel Carboni wrote:

…subsystems that facilitate and reduce the cost of new, complex, useful application development…

Lest I sound overly negative, I will give one gold star. Visual Studio actually IS that, though it’s growing less and less stable as time goes on. And it doesn’t require Windows 10.

-Noel

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Much as I hate to disagree with you, I always found the more recent incarnations of Visual Studio a horrible bloated mess. (Maybe I use it for smaller projects?)

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subsystems that facilitate and reduce the cost of new, complex, useful application development

I think MS is trying to use Win 10 to push Universal Windows Platform and deprecate Win32. Although this apparently improves security, due to the huge amount of software that will no longer be compatible I think MS are the only ones excited at the idea.

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woody wrote:

With Sets now jettisoned, the worthwhile feature list for the next version of Windows is vanishing]

Personally, more and more, I just use Chrome and the Google Suite and don’t worry about Timeline or Sets,

You sound miffed that Microsoft won’t be forcibly installing a half-baked feature on your computers which you don’t want and wouldn’t use.

There’s no pleasing some people.

Where’s the vanishing list?

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You sound miffed that Microsoft won’t be forcibly installing a half-baked feature on your computers which you don’t want and wouldn’t use.

Of course!

We forcibly got *loads of those anyway, so why not Sets too?

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b wrote:

Where’s the vanishing list?

True… I never sensed any list to start with.

-Noel

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The iterations of Windows 10 are the vanishing list you you seek.

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No, I was seeking Woody’s list of worthwhile features for 1809.

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Oh okay, well something might show up if there is something to see…

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b wrote:

You sound miffed that Microsoft won’t be forcibly installing a half-baked feature on your computers which you don’t want and wouldn’t use. There’s no pleasing some people. Where’s the vanishing list?

Naw, not miffed. Just wondering why MS has announced Sets over and over – but apparently can’t produce something as good as Stardock’s product.

We’ve seen a lot of useless new features in various flavors of Win10. Better that MS hold off until they get the bugs out of a worthwhile new one.

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Jan K., Elly

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