It’s still basically a hard drive with small ssd type storage. so yes, defrag if you think it’s necessary for hard drives. IMO

Well yeah, really not simple, except the conclusion.

According to some paper I read once about some of these drives… probably would’ve been Seagate FireCuda (which most likely is the exact thing HP sells too, as opposed to HPE)… what the drive supposedly does is weighted caching with blocks accessed more frequently in short reads having priority for cache space.

Oh and apparently these also do lazy writeback and write reordering from flash to spinning disk, as implied in the notes where Seagate says to not use FireCuda in RAID arrays or anything where you have transaction tracking all the way to disk surface.

Behavior seems to match this, too. Particularly when the disk noise pattern doesn’t match operating system level write pattern at all any more if you have one of these…

WD’s marketing materials have a similar wording for desktop/laptop SSHDs, thus I expect them to do at least weighted retention and write reordering too.

What this means in practice is that you don’t want to defragment files that occupy cached blocks, but might want to defragment those that are not currently in cache… and so the cache then helps with exactly the same seeks as defrag would, but in a different and incompatible way.

So about the only situation where defrag would be at all useful on such a disk would be if you have more than one partition and one of them is a “scratch/temp” work partition which you use heavily only during known specific periods… in which case you might defrag the scratch partition around the end of a low-usage period.

Now, the *other* model hybrid drives, those that Seagate says are good for RAID arrays… and had price tags higher than same amount of pure server-grade SSD, last time I checked… those might theoretically benefit from a defrag, since apparently they have a different caching pattern and allow synchronous-to-spinning-surface writes. Oh well, don’t know of anyone who’d admit to having bought one.

Then of course there’s the even older kind of SSHD, the one where you typically have RAM banks for the whole capacity, a spinning drive for power-down retention, and enough battery for the drive to finish writing the entire state on power loss. Large enterprise-grade database index kind of thing… these would theoretically benefit from defrag (shave some seconds off a server cold start, which is the only situation where you ever see a seek delay with these) if you were silly enough to run a normal filesystem on them, but that’s definitely a “much more money than sense” kind of situation.

Still, conclusion: don’t defrag a laptop/desktop grade hybrid drive, and on a server, check with the expensive consultants who sold your boss the silly things…

Windows 10 runs Disk optimization/Defrag on a weekly schedule. Will the OS defrag SSHDs or HDDs with Intel Optane ?

It’s like asking if you should defrag your macOS, since it runs on a Fusion Drive (commercial name for Apple SSHD). And the answer is “depends”: if you use linux or any linux-based OS (like macOS, Android, etc.) you don’t need to defrag, but on Windows you need to because of NTFS.

I currently have a HDD built in to my Win 7 PRO SP1.  No SSD.  I have had this PC (Dell) for 4.5 years and have never defragged (I understand that it is not necessary because Windows automatically defrags once per week overnight).

I imagine that this machine will be replaced in the next year or so and that a SSD and HDD (or perhaps SSHD) as the built-in storage will be on the cards.  The OS then will be Win 10 (shudder).

If I were to add an SSD to my current system, would Windows (7) know not to include it in its weekly defrag (I think it would be smart enough to know this)?  More importantly, does Win 10 still do weekly defrags automatically, and if so, how does it handle SSD and SSHD drives?

Most of the discussion so far in this thread is about whether or not to defrag. No mention of weekly auto defrags – or am I quite mistaken about Windows doing weekly auto defrags?

Hi All, I am not sold on SSD and such. I know they are fast but I don’t trust them. For me, I would stay with a spinning HHD, but each person needs to decide for themselves of which is best. Many of my friends have SSD and are happy, but I also hear of those that get SLOW after 6 months of use. I have defragged SSD’s but TRIM is supposed to be better. Steve Gibson’s SpinRite is also another tool that seems to improve SSD performance presumably from forcing TRIM.

This article from Seagate was very eye opening for me. They know SSDs don’t last and they use a “Wear Leveling” technology to make the wear points go to other parts of the drive. This in turn causes fragmentation of files. Hummmmm…..

https://www.seagate.com/files/www-content/product-content/momentus-fam/momentus-xt/en-us/docs/mb618-solid-state-hybrid-drive-us.pdf

“More worryingly, SSDs have issues with data integrity and long-term durability. Like a battery, SSDs gradually lose their ability to hold a charge (retain data) with frequent use (erasures/writes). Wear leveling delays this phenomenon but fragments data and slows performance … and defragging to restore speed adds disk wear.”

‘So the best bet is to follow the manufacturer’s advice.’

Fancy that.
Next topic please.

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anonymous wrote:

I am not sold on SSD and such. I know they are fast but I don’t trust them

SSDs are more robust than you might think. See this real world test of SSDs.
https://techreport.com/review/27909/the-ssd-endurance-experiment-theyre-all-dead

TRIM does not defragment SSDs, it clears unused RAM cells so that they are ready to be written. If you don’t clear the cells a write must first erase the cell and this makes SSDs slow down after a while.

Defragmentation of SSDs in Windows is done to keep the FAT “file fragments per file” records below Windows maximum number.  This is handled by Windows and you do not need to do it manually.

cheers, Paul

YES defragment your SSD and HDD and the hybrid. PERIOD! I defrag my Intel SSD DC S4610 3.84tb all the time and the speed increases after the defrag. The SSD’s of today will not wear out in no short period of time. My ssd calls for 3 data writes per day for 5 years to void the warranty. I will not do 3 data writes per day in my lifetime! let alone 10 years when the industry has something else we will all need for storage. It is a myth not to defrag the ssd from ancient technology. And besides the cost of ssd’s are coming down so fast, that will cause them to burn out faster than defragging. Do some DD on google and see both arguments and make a decision on common sence. If I burn out my ssd I will buy another one which will be better due to advanced tech anyway and cheaper by then. my2¢

Watch this guy
SSD Optimization IN DEPTH – PART 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0odEd8JH6mg

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way back when HDD were spinning at 56oorpm or even 7200 rpm, the manufacturers would guarantee a million hrs use( almost) Curiously, the first warranties were for more years than HDD’s had been an idea let alone in existence. Made me smile when I would hear someone tout their new fangled 100mb monster drives w/ stacker that would never fill up nor wear out!