32GB RAM and therefore no Page File?

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UPDATE 9/19/14 For a summary of this thread, please go to my post at this Date & Time 2014-09-11, 22:57
UPDATE 9/10 spoke too soon again … lots of new info & old info clarified … though still impressed with RAMDisk conceptually, awaiting testing results.
UPDATE 9/8 PENDING TESTING this has been resolved for high performance Gaming system:
32GB RAM – 4GB of RAM for RAMDisk for the Page File = 28 GB RAM which is plenty for all of my son’s Gaming & PC needs (please read my last few posts about RAMDisk, an elegant solution)

UPDATE 9/7 still not resolved …
UPDATE 9/5
I may have spoken too soon … this situation may not be resolved yet!

RESOLUTION: My son built his new Computer with 32 GB of Ram and his OS is Windows 7. There should be no need for a Page File.

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Hi and Welcome to the Lounge!

W7x64 user here, 8GB of RAM, currently virtual memory (page file, swap file) is set to use a minimum of 1.5GB up to a maximum of 4.4GB across 3 drives. Current VM usage is:

AllocatedBaseSize=400
Caption=C:pagefile.sys
CurrentUsage=368
Description=C:pagefile.sys
InstallDate=20130123133210.474800+000
Name=C:pagefile.sys
PeakUsage=399
Status=
TempPageFile=FALSE

AllocatedBaseSize=1024
Caption=G:pagefile.sys
CurrentUsage=833
Description=G:pagefile.sys
InstallDate=20130920022328.422065+060
Name=G:pagefile.sys
PeakUsage=945
Status=
TempPageFile=FALSE

AllocatedBaseSize=100
Caption=K:pagefile.sys
CurrentUsage=98
Description=K:pagefile.sys
InstallDate=20130611170546.654637+060
Name=K:pagefile.sys
PeakUsage=99
Status=
TempPageFile=FALSE

= 1299MB, within the minimum allocated for each drive, on a Windows session that is 6.5 days old. The PeakUsage figures above show that at no time during this session has the VM needed to use more than my minimum allocated amount.

Also note that there is a TempPageFile entry there, Windows can, and often does, create a hidden, temporary page file when there is no page file set and it needs to page out some data.

MS have changed their stance on page file sizing a number of times over the years, I think the 1.5x figure is from the XP era (when I might have been using a 2GB RAM notebook, with 3 HDDs and a 4092MB swap file on each!).

MS uses a best guess method, based on common Enterprise usage mostly, once you move away from that towards the extremes, like high-end Workstations or gaming machines, or underpowered relics from a previous era that have been upgraded to recent Windows versions, the further away from that guess the actual VM usage becomes.

MS defaults are fine for most users – but not all. Yet the difference between MS defaults and actual usage in terms of speed is almost zero – you won’t gain anything but drive space by reducing VM space – you might see programs disappear though!

The vast majority of recent programs do not require a page file, providing there is ample RAM, they will work as they should. Others will complain on install, or first run, if they don’t see a page file allocated – sometimes, they will complain if there is a page file but it’s not on the System drive.

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.
UPDATE 9/5

I may have spoken too soon … this situation may not be resolved yet!

RESOLUTION: My son built his new Computer with 32 GB of Ram and his OS is Windows 7. There should be no need for a Page File.

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I have my Win 7 x64 laptop set to Auto and with 8GB RAM installed, the paging shows as 7787 allocated and if I wanted to manually set that – it’s 16MB min and 11680MB max (recommended).

With it set to auto, the free version of Speccy /RAM gives the Total Physical as 7.61GB : Total VM as 15GB with the Available Virtual as 14GB which is a bit more than the x1.5 or the 11680 max recommended.

With it set to Auto I’ve never had any problems, although it’s never stressed with gaming.

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The temporary page file is created for Windows’ own use 🙂

If he has an SSD, rather than a SSHD, perhaps he should use a setting like 1GB minimum, 4GB maximum and keep tabs on its usage – or check what the default, Windows managed paging file allocates first? SSD space is costly and he ought to ensure that ~25% of that space is kept free over the long term for best performance and longevity. The hybrid SSHDs are less costly per GB and much larger in size.

From Vista onwards, Windows is ‘smart’ enough to read paged data from the drive that is the fastest at that time. This really only applies to a single paging file plus a ReadyBoost drive though, as far as I can tell (up to W7 SP1), Windows does not duplicate any significant amount of data across multiple page files otherwise.

I don’t know whether it writes to the fastest available page file.

The tool I used to check my page file usage (from Sysnative):

To check your system’s “Recoveros” (Recovery) and Page File settings via Windows Management Instrumentation (WMI), run the following –

HTML output – WMI – “Recoveros” and Page File Settings (HTML)
Text file output – WMI – “Recoveros” and Page File Settings (TEXT)

And – A hotfix is available that enables a Windows 7-based or Windows Server 2008 R2-based computer to create a memory dump file without a page file: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2716542

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I’ve been running Windows 7 Ultimate with 16GB RAM and no page file since 2010. The closest I ever got to maxing out the RAM was running chkdsk on a 1TB drive – RAM usage got close to 15GB by the time chkdsk had finished its run.

Windows 7 will create a dump file on the system root in the absence of a page file.

Windows 8, on the other hand, runs a persistent page file. Deleting it does no good; it will reconstruct it on the next boot. I set the min/max at 4095MB, and it seems satisfied with that.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I’ve been running Windows 7 Ultimate with 16GB RAM and no page file since 2010. The closest I ever got to maxing out the RAM was running chkdsk on a 1TB drive – RAM usage got close to 15GB by the time chkdsk had finished its run.

Windows 7 will create a dump file on the system root in the absence of a page file.

Windows 8, on the other hand, runs a persistent page file. Deleting it does no good; it will reconstruct it on the next boot. I set the min/max at 4095MB, and it seems satisfied with that.

Dear bbearen,

I am intrigued that you have been running without a Page File since 2010.

Many are sharing experiences with applications insisting upon the existence of a page file &/or needing a page file.

You sound quite knowledgable. Have you had any experiences like these?

Do you think my son’s new system using Windows 7 with 32 GB RAM requires a page file?

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Dear bbearen,

I am intrigued that you have been running without a Page File since 2010.

Many are sharing experiences with applications insisting upon the existence of a page file &/or needing a page file.

You sound quite knowledgable. Have you had any experiences like these?

Do you think my son’s new system using Windows 7 with 32 GB RAM requires a page file?

When I was running 32bit Windows (prior to 2010) the RAM was limited to 4GB – that’s the total addressable space with 32 bits. In those days, I did quite a bit of research and personal testing on finding the sweet spot with the page file.

Two solid facts emerged. Having the page file on a separate hard drive was faster, and the reason was very simple; the hardware can read/write from two hard drives at the same time – think revolving door. While some folks are coming in, others are going out at the same time. The second solid fact is that when Windows manages the page file, CPU cycles must be used to manage the page file, read/writes must be used to resize the page file. These activities take CPU cycles and read/writes away from what the user wants to be doing. So a fixed size eliminates that waste of system activity on managing the page file.

Another little jewel crept out of my tinkering. Create a partition at or near the front of the second hard drive just a little larger than the page file, and put the page file there. On a dedicated partition (no other files use it, ever) the fixed page file cannot get fragmented. The reason the partition is a bit larger than the page file is to keep Windows from warning that the logical drive is nearly full.

With 32bit, I used a page file size of 4095MB. Windows would balk and not create a full 4GB (4096MB) page file. With Windows 8/8.1 and its persistent page file, I use a dedicated partition of 4.5GB on a separate drive and a page file of 4096MB. My belief is that with 16GB RAM, it only uses the page file to page out the boot processes. The page file will be largely dormant after the system boots.

All that being said, with 32GB RAM, wanting a screamer for gaming, I would suggest that your son put a 4GB fixed page file on a dedicated partition on a separate hard drive just to free up the address space used by those startup processes. With Windows 7 (I dual boot 7 and 8) I’ve never encountered a program or utility that balked at not having a page file, and the most memory intensive utility I’ve encountered is chkdsk. Your son is not likely to be running chkdsk at the same time he is playing a game.

With 32GB RAM, you already have a RAM disk; no need to set up a separate one that will take away CPU cycles.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Dear bbearren,

Thanks!

You sure brought back some memories! It sounds like Windows 8 is sentimental and trying to regress to her former glory!

In earlier Wndows versions we used to set the Page Files at very specific min/max, as you say, because it put less stress on the system by eliminating variablility expanding and shrinking because earlier Windows was exceedingly inefficient managing things back then! That “trick” increased speed significantly.

I am afraid to go near Windows 8 … I am hoping and praying for a huge step forward.

Thank you everyone and God Bless all of you.

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I am afraid to go near Windows 8 … I am hoping and praying for a huge step forward.

Fear not – Windows 9 may well be available Real Soon Now, with the option of a native desktop, that several people know and love…

BATcher

Plethora means a lot to me.

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Dear Batcher,

What you mean by “Native / Desktop”?

Do you mean Virtual Desktops? If so, that is one huge pet peeve of mine for years. I have tried a lot of software innovations over the years but they all had some complicated problems.

So, I use different Users (non-admin) to separate projects … it is really ridiculous. Switching Users all the time is crazy, but at least it is easier to organize things.

If you have any suggestions, would love to hear them.

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Windows 8 has a wonderful desktop with a highly customizable, efficient, start screen. This contrasts severely with the messy start menu that is very difficult, to impossible to customize. What used to take hours to gain control of you can do in minutes with the new Windows 8.1 Start Screen.

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Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.

Windows 8 has a wonderful desktop with a highly customizable, efficient, start screen. This contrasts severely with the messy start menu that is very difficult, to impossible to customize. What used to take hours to gain control of you can do in minutes with the new Windows 8.1 Start Screen.

Dear djohnson,

I will pass on your praise for W8/8.1 to my son, but he loves Windows 7.

Just as so many loved XP, now many (including a lot of Gamers) really like Windows 7.

But we are all hoping for a huge step forward.

Personally, I think when they iron out certain problems with W8/8.1, and learn to fully maximize the benefits of the “New Concepts” they introduced, then it will all contribute to the future XP/Windows 7 kind of OS that everyone will be so pleased with.

This is all most exciting to me considering the huge hardware advances that are happening now. I can’t wait until these advances become affordably available to all PC users.

Remember, I am a computer dinosaur! I remember when we only had 4k to write a spaghetti code machine language OS.

Over the years it soon became apparent to me that I could not possibly keep current on the overwhelming changes in SW, HW, networking, on & on. Finally, 2 years ago I decided to make a concerted effort to not try to keep up. I have been a much happier person! Ha Ha!

But it is fun to watch from a distance all of the amazing leaps forward.

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I was an original Windows 8 hater. I despised it! After a few friends asked for help on their W8 machines and I embarrased myself by having to ask “how do I …”, I picked up a refurb laptop, bought a W8 disk on eBay, and began my learning session. After installing Classic Shell and disabling the mandatory boot sign-in, I’m OK with it. Two simple tweaks made all the difference.

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I was an original Windows 8 hater. I despised it! After a few friends asked for help on their W8 machines and I embarrased myself by having to ask “how do I …”, I picked up a refurb laptop, bought a W8 disk on eBay, and began my learning session. After installing Classic Shell and disabling the mandatory boot sign-in, I’m OK with it. Two simple tweaks made all the difference.

Dear rje49,

Am I correct in surmising that the reason you now think 8/8.1 is tolerable is because you are using software to make it appear and behave more like former Windows versions? If so, do you see the humor in that? (-:

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`
Dear fellow explorers in the land of Tron,

To whom this may concern, this is my personal disclaimer: “Don’t try this at home” (-: Just in case you decide to try something that anyone has discussed in this thread and have an unfortunate outcome.

I have never participated in a Tech forum in all these decades because I was afraid it would take a lot of time … I was right!

Some of you have been doing this for an incredibly long time and have awesome amounts of posts and thank yous … I commend you for helping people.

It has been so much fun and most interesting. Thank you to everyone for your time and energy expended in this time consuming venue.

Frankly, an ever growing part of myself regrets ever asking my son about his Page File (-: and the reason I asked him was just for fun … after discovering he installed the ridiculous amount of 32 GB RAM … because I knew he did not know what a Page File was! HA HA HA! He has built systems for years but isn’t interest in learning about the OS! But then he researched about the Page File and now he is really dangerous …

Now … I am wondering if I even know what a Page File is and if I have to go back to school for Windows 7 ( but definitely not getting Windows 8/8.1 … going to hold out for the future!)

this is dedicated to lounge member Clint:

Air Force KISS = Keep It Secretly Soaring
Navy KISS = Keep It Sounding Silent
Marines KISS = Keep It Strapped Securely
Army KISS = Keep It Simple Smarty
Undisclosed military component
KISS = Keep It Sweetly Sophisticated
ALL Contractors to the military and DOD
KISS – Keep It Simple Stupid

TTFN …

btw – does anyone remember OS2 in the 1980’s ??? It was way better than Windows 95 but many years in advance! when most people were proud of how many DOS commands they knew … it was sad … because they (and soon therafter Windows 3.0 & 3.1 came along) and most non-professionals had no idea what they were missing.

p.s. May God bless all of you mightily. Two years ago, even though I am a Senior … I went back to school full-time and am studying Reformed Christian Theology. It is exceedingly demanding and I have been neglecting my studies. So, I need to sign off until I get caught up!

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Used to dual boot OS2 Warp. Loved it, but in hindsight, Windows 95 including a TCP/IP stack was probably all it needed to win in the marketplace.

To all the RAM disk naysayers, let me point out putting the page file in RAM is only one possible use. Keep in mind, bbearren, logic and physics only take you so far when dealing with a Microsoft OS.

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Unless you have an application that requires a lot of I/O, a RAMdisk is a waste of time on a system with 32Gb RAM. RAMdisks can be good on servers, where there’s lots of file I/O going on with multiple users and caching these can be used to improve performance (but updates still need to be written to a physical disk), but single-user systems will generally show only marginal improvements. Look at it this way: If you want to open a file, it needs to be read from disk. Sure, that will be faster if the file is on a RAMdisk, but you have to get it there first. And getting it to a RAMdisk from a HDD takes just as long as reading from a HDD for opening – and you still won’t have opened it until after it’s been read to the RAMdisk. I suggest you look into some benchmarks that take into account the total resources needed to create & use RAMdisks.

Dear macropod,

Which is faster: having a Page File on a dedicated HDD, having a Page File on a dedicated SSD, having a Page File on a dedicated physical hardware RAM drive, or having a Page File in RAM (in the virtual RAMDisk) ?

The previous question assumes an abundance of RAM, so much so, that there is a lot that is never used and it is therefore no loss to assign in my son’s Gaming system’s case, 4GB to the software RAMDisk for the PF.

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`
This is from the related Thread
” Do you have a lot of RAM? Have you heard of RAM Disk software? ”

Unless you have an application that requires a lot of I/O, a RAMdisk is a waste of time on a system with 32Gb RAM. RAMdisks can be good on servers, where there’s lots of file I/O going on with multiple users and caching these can be used to improve performace (but updates still need to be written to a physical disk), but single-user systems will generally show only marginal improvements. Look at it this way: If you want to open a file, it needs to be read from disk. Sure, that will be faster if the file is on a RAMdisk, but you have to get it there first. And getting it to a RAMdisk from a HDD takes just as long as reading from a HDD for opening – and you still won’t have opened it until after it’s been read to the RAMdisk. I suggest you look into some benchmarks that take into account the total resources needed to create & use RAMdisks.

Dear macropod,

Which is faster: having a Page File on a dedicated HDD, having a Page File on a dedicated SSD, having a Page File on a dedicated physical hardware RAM drive, or having a Page File in RAM (in the virtual RAMDisk) ?

The previous question assumes an abundance of RAM, so much so, that there is a lot that is never used and it is therefore no loss to assign in my son’s Gaming system’s case, 4GB to the software RAMDisk for the PF.

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`
This is from the related Thread
…
Which is faster: having a Page File on a dedicated HDD, having a Page File on a dedicated SSD, having a Page File on a dedicated physical hardware RAM drive, or having a Page File in RAM (in the virtual RAMDisk) ?

Already answered in the other (now closed) thread: http://windowssecrets.com/forums/showthread//164202-Do-you-have-a-lot-of-RAM-Have-you-heard-of-RAM-Disk-software

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

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Already answered in the other (now closed) thread.

Dear Macropod Super Moderator Sir,

With all due respect:

1) You closed the other thread giving the explanation that both threads can not be open.

The other is entitled “Do you have a lot of RAM? Have you heard of RAM Disk software?”

The other thread was strictly about RAMDisk and it had received interesting responses targeting the subject of RAM Disk … INCLUDING FROM YOU!

If the threads are too similar then why did you choose to interact with that thread and not this one?

Zeus36 wrote a fascinating post about how he uses RAMDisk for super charged, super fast BROWSING!

But, now I can not respond to lounge member Zeus36 because you closed the thread!

So I guess I will have to contact Zeus 36 by ‘PM’ …

2) This thread may “seem” to be focused now upon RAMDisk,

but I assure you this is temporary and I predict will veer in the direction about the Windows Temp PF … and other things.

In this thread … I am still LEARNING things and am still researching things.

People are still contributing new info, but more importantly, some are making info that appeared in the beginning of the thread more clear to me now … Windows Temp PF’s, for one example!

I also predict this thread will soon, very soon, produce a Chrystal clear picture of the best ways to handle PF’s based on user needs, goals, system limitations, or very well endowed systems like my son’s …

P.S. I notice that you have made nearly 4,000 posts – have been thanked nearly 200 times, but have never thanked anyone else. Either you know everything or you are operating on this Forum under a different name when you encounter problems. I have been a “Gizmo” fan for more years then my Senior Moment I am having right now can remember, and he added a huge boost to Windows Secrets Newsletter long ago when you all merged. I learned so much from him through the years. I very much miss his personality as Gizmo.

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Dear Macropod Super Moderator Sir,

With all due respect:

1) You closed the other thread giving the explanation that both threads can not be open.

I closed it because you were running essentially the same discussion in both threads, in violation of Forum Rule 16:
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules_vision#flooding. See also: http://windowssecrets.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules_vision#crossposting
Indeed you were even going so far as to copy & paste some posts from one thread to the other (you did it with mine, for example, then addressed a question to me in this thread, to which I wasn’t even subscribed). Carrying on essentially the same discussion in multiple threads wastes peoples’ time, leads to confusion and can end up with people working at cross purposes. The only reason I responded in your other thread was because at the time I was not aware this thread existed.

As for your PS, before making such inane observations you might also note how many times I’ve posted asking for help vs how many times I’ve provided help. Over the past decade I’ve made >35,000 posts spread over a dozen or so different forums helping others solve their problems. Conversely, I could probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve sought help in all of them put together, so I really haven’t had much occasion to thank anyone for the help I’ve received. With the rate at which I post and the amount of time I devote to helping others solve their problems, plus Administering/Moderating some of them (including this one), I have far more to concern myself with than who thanks whom for what. BTW, many of my posts in this forum are from any era before the software supported ‘thanks’.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

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I closed it because you were running essentially the same discussion in both threads, in violation of Forum Rule 16:
http://windowssecrets.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules_vision#flooding. See also: http://windowssecrets.com/forums/faq.php?faq=rules_vision#crossposting
Indeed you were even going so far as to copy & paste some posts from one thread to the other (you did it with mine, for example, then addressed a question to me in this thread, to which I wasn’t even subscribed). Carrying on essentially the same discussion in multiple threads wastes peoples’ time, leads to confusion and can end up with people working at cross purposes. The only reason I responded in your other thread was because at the time I was not aware this thread existed.

As for your PS, before making such inane observations you might also note how many times I’ve posted asking for help vs how many times I’ve provided help. Over the past decade I’ve made >35,000 posts spread over a dozen or so different forums helping others solve their problems. Conversely, I could probably count on one hand the number of times I’ve sought help in all of them put together, so I really haven’t had much occasion to thank anyone for the help I’ve received. With the rate at which I post and the amount of time I devote to helping others solve their problems, plus Administering/Moderating some of them (including this one), I have far more to concern myself with than who thanks whom for what. BTW, many of my posts in this forum are from any era before the software supported ‘thanks’.

Dear Macropod,

I apologize. You are correct on all counts. This is the first Tech forum I have ever participated in, my etiquette is poor I now realize, and now I understand why you don’t want “cross purposes” in threads, makes perfect sense now.

Also, I do commend you and all of the other volunteers who have helped so many, including me and vicariously my son also.

This is a blessing in disguise. I am going to make a graceful “exit stage left” now and just check back from time to time to see if all of my questions about the software RAMDisk, Windows Temp PFs, and Page-files, etc are eventually answered.

God Bless You all and farewell.

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A few things to consider when dealing with huge amounts of RAM, like 32 GBs worth;

1. You definately will NOT want to have Windows manage it, especially anything less than W7.
WHY: It’s an old an outdated formula that is completely useless with amounts of RAM in excess of
8 to 12GB. If you want to waste that much space on your drive, enable the hibrnation feature (sarcasm).
2. Depending upon the type of program(s) you run, you may not actually need a PF.
3. PF usually a waste of space, even with a lightning fast SSD, RAM memory will always be faster.
4. The OS itself will require a certain minimal amount of PF for error reporting and such.
You can decide whether you actually want this or not.

Just be warned though, not all software plays nice without a PF.
I recommend setting your PF to a minimum and maximum; 200MB to 4GB, if you don’t decide to remove it altogether.

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A few things to consider when dealing with huge amounts of RAM, like 32 GBs worth;

1. You definately will NOT want to have Windows manage it, especially anything less than W7.
WHY: It’s an old an outdated formula that is completely useless with amounts of RAM in excess of
8 to 12GB. If you want to waste that much space on your drive, enable the hibrnation feature (sarcasm).
2. Depending upon the type of program(s) you run, you may not actually need a PF.
3. PF usually a waste of space, even with a lightning fast SSD, RAM memory will always be faster.
4. The OS itself will require a certain minimal amount of PF for error reporting and such.
You can decide whether you actually want this or not.

Just be warned though, not all software plays nice without a PF.
I recommend setting your PF to a minimum and maximum; 200MB to 4GB, if you don’t decide to remove it altogether.

With 16GB of RAM, I’m running W7x64 on a 120GB SSD with 30GB free space. Followed your suggested PF settings & gained 15GB of free space. Your #3 comment is very true.

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The only advantage I’ve ever experienced for have the Paging File/Virtual Memory set the same for Max and Min is it doesn’t change on the HDD, doesn’t get fragmented [scattered around] as when variables are used. Some disk utilities may be able to show where the fragments are on the HDD during their defragging operation.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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**

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With 1TB drives and beyond becoming common and people worry about a 8 gig pagefile? Get serious. That is a drop in a very large bucket. Set the min and max to the same amount of memory in your system and be done with it. You will never miss the space and if something does need a pagefile you have it available.

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With 1TB drives and beyond becoming common and people worry about a 8 gig pagefile? Get serious. That is a drop in a very large bucket. Set the min and max to the same amount of memory in your system and be done with it. You will never miss the space and if something does need a pagefile you have it available.

Dear rayt435,

As you know, RAM tends to be a great deal faster than Read/Write’s to Hard Drives. So this was always the prime consideration of forcing Windows to use RAM as much as possible instead of Read/Write’s to the HD while it did the swapping.

Yes, in older systems HD space was a consideration for Virtual Memory but everyone knew they needed to have enough space for the then recommended 1.5 times RAM size Page File, because that was the heart of the entire system.

But, even now, with plenty of HD space, it is the superior speed of the RAM that is still the target issue.

Read/Writes to Hard Drives, especially slower ones like 7200 rpm, or the old Laptop 5400’s are a BOTTLENECK when trying to increase speed.

I have waited decades for what they are now soon to accomplish, and that is OS’s running entirely in a super fast non-volatile RAM type environment.

But when this is finally achieved affordably for the average PC user, I will be much too old to enjoy it! I am already too old.

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With 1TB drives and beyond becoming common and people worry about a 8 gig pagefile? Get serious. That is a drop in a very large bucket. Set the min and max to the same amount of memory in your system and be done with it. You will never miss the space and if something does need a pagefile you have it available.

P.S.

Dear rayt435,

You mention what is the crux of this entire issue to me, and that is when there is more than adequate RAM available for any situation, should the Page File be eliminated?

If the Page File is there, when there is plenty of RAM available, it has been my experience through the years with Windows OS’s that they are still not smart enough to maximize full usage of the RAM.

Turning off the Page File forces Windows to use the RAM, and it is faster, eliminating unnecessary HF Read/Write’s for the swaps.

In my son’s case, he installed a ridiculous amount of RAM! Ha Ha! And his reason for doing so was

“Because I could!” (-:

It is so hilarious to me, I still chuckle every time I think about it.

So, I thought he should definitely turn off the Page File.

But some of you say there are situations when “Applications” somehow require, or prefer, that the OS has a Page File???

This I do not understand. This makes no sense to me.

Please explain this to me.

Sincerely, a frustrated Mother

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The only advantage I’ve ever experienced for have the Paging File/Virtual Memory set the same for Max and Min is it doesn’t change on the HDD, doesn’t get fragmented [scattered around] as when variables are used. Some disk utilities may be able to show where the fragments are on the HDD during their defragging operation.

Hi Berton,

About Fragmentation of the Page File, if there is not enough contiguous space on the HD for the Page File size, then it will be fragmented from its creation.

When speed and efficient HD file management was important, prior to defragging,

1) I would delete the Page File, Hibernation file, System Restore Files, and sometimes MetaData, and other stuff if necessary
2) then I would Defrag
3) the i would consolidate HD space
4)Then i would create an adequate Page File (used to be 1.5 times the amount of Ram)
In this way, with a set Min/Max it would not get fragmented because it now owned that block of HD real estate (-:
5) Then, when I wasn’t using Hibernation much (i use it all the time now), but then, it was the next File I created (by turning hibernation back on using pwrcfg)
6) I would restore the other files, and do System Restore last!!! Then i would turn System Restore back on set a Restore point.

When space, speed, and efficiency made a significant difference for the OS, these procedures were beautiful in how much they helped.

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The only advantage I’ve ever experienced for have the Paging File/Virtual Memory set the same for Max and Min is it doesn’t change on the HDD, doesn’t get fragmented [scattered around] as when variables are used. Some disk utilities may be able to show where the fragments are on the HDD during their defragging operation.

P.S.

Hi again Berton,

This point I forgot to mention were 2 Page File configurations that were often applied depending on the Windows OS, the PC, and what activities the User frequented, and any problems they were having

1) earlier version of Windows did not manage Memory well, especially in the quick efficient release of memory ( Windows still can not earn a gold star in this respect!)

and a shrinking and expanding Page File, depending on the situation, could slow things down.

2) Many of us had a Second HD that was dedicated to the Page File.

This worked like a dream! Especially many years ago when I dedicated 15,000 rpm Raptor just to the Page File

3) Incidentally, many of us would have a RAID. On one of my son’s old systems I configured a RAPTOR RAID.
WOW! It was awesome in speed compared to a single 7,200 rpm HD.

You all are bring back so many memories!

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RESOLUTION: My son built his new Computer with 32 GB of Ram and his OS is Windows 7. There should be no need for a Page File.

Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.

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Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.

Yup, 8/8.1 is so well liked that it barely has a market share and win 9 is rushing out to get people back to newer windows OS, LOL.
Glad you like it, I don’t.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Yup, 8/8.1 is so well liked that it barely has a market share and win 9 is rushing out to get people back to newer windows OS, LOL.
Glad you like it, I don’t.

Dear lumpy95,

If you can spare the time, would you please share what things about 8/8.1 you don’t like compared to the OS you like most?

I would love to hear more opinions about Windows 8/8.1 changes that have been the least appealing.

Thank you.

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Dear lumpy95,

If you can spare the time, would you please share what things about 8/8.1 you don’t like compared to the OS you like most?

I would love to hear more opinions about Windows 8/8.1 changes that have been the least appealing.

Thank you.

Sure.
I really detest the tiled interface (charms) that MS went to. It looks and acts more like a phone than a computer, especially being more geared to the touch interface. MS took a giant leap with 8 which unfortunately didn’t sit well with MANY people, especially when most people from previous OS’s couldn’t find a way to navigate the newer style with many things hidden from view.
I use a cell phone that is a touch interface and that is ok but when I get on a computer, I still want a mouse and KB to navigate an at least a somewhat familiar interface. Personally I liked XP but MS scared the heck out of me with ending support so I went with win 7 with a lot less learning curve and more familiar feel than Win 8 which I didn’t like at all.
I will be sticking with Win 7 until I see something better from MS that looks and feels like a computer instead of a phone. At my age & health, I may be with Win 7 at the end, LOL.
On another note, the security is probably better on newer systems but I try my best not to do stupid things on the computer anyway. So far it’s working. I was on XP from 2003 to early 2013 and NEVER had to reformat from doing something stupid. I went to Win 7 in early 2013 and am still learning some of the in’s and out’s of it. That’s why I’m glad this forum is here. Win 8/8.1 is NOT in my future.
I’m not sure if I answered your question as specifically as you wanted, but I tried. Does this opinion go to MS now?

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.

I’ve got to agree with Lumpy 95. Also, your statement about Windows 7 is partially true, but only partially true. Extended support for Windows 7 will continue until January, 2020.

Your son may want to contact the new CEO at Microsoft and let him/her know that he’s building a computer. Then politely ask what the anticipated requirements for Win 9 are. Microsoft may provide him with information on the system he needs to build for use beyond January, 2020.

Please let us know what your son decides to do and how things work out.

Charles

Genius is one per cent inspiration, ninety-nine per cent perspiration.
[info][add][mail][note]
Thomas A. Edison (1847 – 1931), Harper’s Monthly, 1932

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Your son may want to contact the new CEO at Microsoft and let him/her know that he’s building a computer. Then politely ask what the anticipated requirements for Win 9 are. Microsoft may provide him with information on the system he needs to build for use beyond January, 2020.

Please let us know what your son decides to do and how things work out.

Charles

Dear Charles,

Thank you for your thoughts. My son loves Windows 7 so it will take some doing for him to try another OS prior to it receiving public acceptance and accolades surpassing W7!

He is happy will his new system.

He loves the QUIET Solid State HD. His previous systems used Raptors which were so fast, but noisy … and because they ran so hot they required noisy HD coolers!

He still has a lot to learn about SW and the OS. But he is enjoying learning about all of his new hardware. He did a lot of research prior to purchasing each component.

I hope Windows 9 will be wonderful, but I have a feeling that it may be another “Stepping Stone” like 98 & ME & Vista were. I hope I am wrong.

I am a Sci-fi fan, are you? I continue to look forward to AI’s. An AI OS will be awesome someday. I especially wish that soon search engines, like Google, will integrate AI interface for users. What a leap forward that will be.

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Your son just built a computer with Windows 7? Why would he do that? Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support. I have been using Windows 8/8.1 for several years now, and find it far superior to Windows 7. He needs to get up to speed.

I’ve got to agree with . Also, your statement about Windows 7 is partially true, but only partially true. Extended support for Windows 7 will continue January, 2020.

Your son may want to contact the new CEO at Microsoft and let him/her know that he’s building a computer. Then politely ask what the anticipated requirements for Win 9 are. This may provide him with information on the system he needs to build for use beyond January, 2020.

Please let us know what your son decides to do and how things work out.

Charles

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Windows 7 is nearing end-of-support.

Windows 7 will be receiving security updates until 2020. Windows 7 will stop receiving new features in 2015.

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(Formerly “Windows XP Geezer) I sure hated that I was forced to move from XP. I left Windows XP recently and put Windows 7 Pro BACK on this desktop (that came with Windows 7). I don’t know anything about Page Files, but I loved XP and now 7, and never had any issues with either one. I had to find and install my old Realtek Audio to get my stereo mix back. I play a few big online games, and the ones with Windows 8 have a lot of issues. I have invested in this Windows 7 machine, and I never intend to get that Glorified smart phone, cloud loving, mouse and keyboard hating Windows 8, nor will I ever get a tablet, or squint at a tiny phone. Windows 8 and those horrible new phones are a Big Fail to me.

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(Formerly “Windows XP Geezer) I sure hated that I was forced to move from XP. I left Windows XP recently and put Windows 7 Pro BACK on this desktop (that came with Windows 7). I don’t know anything about Page Files, but I loved XP and now 7, and never had any issues with either one. I had to find and install my old Realtek Audio to get my stereo mix back. I play a few big online games, and the ones with Windows 8 have a lot of issues. I have invested in this Windows 7 machine, and I never intend to get that Glorified smart phone, cloud loving, mouse and keyboard hating Windows 8, nor will I ever get a tablet, or squint at a tiny phone. Windows 8 and those horrible new phones are a Big Fail to me.

Hi Geezer! You are too funny!

Definition of geezer (n) Bing Dictionary gee·zer[ géezər ]
eccentric or irritable senior citizen: a senior citizen, especially a man who is eccentric or irritable

I am a woman, but the definition sounds like I qualify as a Geezer also! It sounds like we are on the same page about many things. I also hate smart phones and have refused many “modern” innovations.

But you have made me most curious. You say you never had problems with XP or now with W7 … how much RAM do you have? You have been most blessed since you never encountered the need to learn about Page Files! I am astonished. You must have a nice system.

God bless you! You made me laugh (-:

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`
Hello again,

I was not planning on making any more posts, but I realized this thread needs a summary.

This is regarding a brand new very high performance Gaming system my son built with 32 GB RAM employing Windows 7 OS.

My question originally was if the system needed a Page file. If so, I wondered what the fastest, most efficient way it should be set up.

This is a summary of the advice:

1) A Page file is NOT required

2) A Page File is definitely required

3) If using a Page File with 32 GB Ram

a) definitely do NOT let Windows manage it.
b) Absolutely let Windows manage everything
c) use a variable size (shrinking – expanding)
d) use a fixed size
e) allow Windows to set the size via system managed PF
f) absolutely do NOT allow Windows to set the size

4) If Page File required …. or desired … then where should it reside?

a) put it on the SSD since the SSD is the fastest Hardware drive on the system
b) others say don’t put it on the SSD in order to prolong the life of the SSD
… put it somewhere else, perhaps on another drive.
c) let Windows put it wherever Windows wants to
d) one individual recommended using RAM as the best fastest place to put the Page File since there is so much of my son’s 32 GB RAM that is never even touched. This method employs creating a Virtual Ram Drive called RAMDisk (commercial software).
FYI: This method also prolongs the life of the SSD

There is of course much more information involved, especially considering each piece of advice.

So, if the reader has a Gaming system with a lot of RAM and is wondering about the Page File then, as you can see in this summary, legitimate “experts” can consistently give contradictory advice and it is difficult and frustrating to sort things out.

Again thank you for all of your opinions and time.

May God Bless all of you mightily

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ou mention what is the crux of this entire issue to me, and that is when there is
more than adequate RAM available for any situation, should the Page File be
eliminated?

If I may, it’s not always Windows that dictates whether there be a paging file [or swapfile] but some programs look for it during their setup and perhaps for a ‘scratch’ file. Same thing about leaving the Temp Folder in the default location on the HDD, lets programs other than Microsoft keep track of them. Believe me, since getting my first computer back in ’92 and starting to build computers in a shop since late ’94, I’ve experimented with such things and always end up getting back to the defaults. All that to say that’s the reason I put the paging file on a second HDD before anything else gets written to it and use a static Max and Min the same number.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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If I may, it’s not always Windows that dictates whether there be a paging file [or swapfile] but some programs look for it during their setup and perhaps for a ‘scratch’ file. Same thing about leaving the Temp Folder in the default location on the HDD, lets programs other than Microsoft keep track of them. Believe me, since getting my first computer back in ’92 and starting to build computers in a shop since late ’94, I’ve experimented with such things and always end up getting back to the defaults. All that to say that’s the reason I put the paging file on a second HDD before anything else gets written to it and use a static Max and Min the same number.

Dear Berton,

Thank you!

I never knw that Applications use the Page File as a “scratch file”. It makes sense though.

Also – likening the Page File to the Temp Folders makes a lot of sense also.

So, what should my son do?

Are you recommending that he have a Page File in addition to the 32 GB RAM?

If so, what size(s) do you recommend for a static min=max?

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Excellent article by Mark Russinovich on virtual memory…especially the section, “How Big Should I Make the Paging File?”

http://blogs.technet.com/b/markrussinovich/archive/2008/11/17/3155406.aspx

Dear jwoods,

Thank you for the informative article.

In the past, there really was a true science to establishing the entire memory situation, especially on a stressed system.

The article is correct that there never was a “one size fits all Page File formula”. It was unique for each user and system.

Finding the best “custom” settings was a time consuming headache.

But now, the enormous amounts of RAM and faster HD’s will be changing everything, and the OS’s are going to change.

Think about it .. all this speed and space now available to the OS will be wonderfully luxurious.

The OS’s of the near future will finally be able to breathe! and to stretch, so to speak.

I am excitedly optimistic about the advancements to surely come in the next few years.

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With 32GB, you also have the option of setting up a RAM disk, and putting the swap file on it. More fun for your son!

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With 32GB, you also have the option of setting up a RAM disk, and putting the swap file on it. More fun for your son!

Dear jab68,

Wow! this is so cool (-: I never heard of a RAM disk and it is brilliant. I just searched it and one of many fun articles appeared. I really like this one: http://www.pcworld.com/article/260918/how_to_supercharge_your_pc_with_a_ram_disk.html

Thank you so much. God bless you.

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really detest the tiled interface (charms) that MS went to. It looks and acts more like a phone than a computer, especially being more geared to the touch interface

I think that is exactly what Microsoft was aiming for. As you mentioned about the cellphone, looking around what we are doing in our lives shows a number of other things that use touch screens such as cars with the fancy radios.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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I think that is exactly what Microsoft was aiming for. As you mentioned about the cellphone, looking around what we are doing in our lives shows a number of other things that use touch screens such as cars with the fancy radios.

Yup, I agree Berton. Driving in your car and handling a cellphone ( when not in your car), a touchscreen is mostly necessity and nowhere near as involved as using a computer. Sitting in front of a computer is a different story. Most of my friends and family that ran out and bought Win 8 are VERY unhappy with it because they are completely lost. I agree that MS was aiming to standardize the look and feel of phones to the OS but it was too much of a sudden stretch for the general user and the diehard’s like me.
It will be interesting to see what Win 9 brings back.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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Just to provide a little counterbalance about Windows 8.1. IMO, the vast majority of users can be very satisfied with Windows 8.1. The Start screen is the start menu and can be customized very easily. If you don’t like the normal tile size you can use small tiles. Four small tiles fit in the space of one normal tile. Using smaller tiles you can fit close to two hundred on the main screen of a 21 inch monitor. Pinning icons to the taskbar allows one-click access to your most frequently used programs. You can configure Windows to boot straight to the desktop if you choose.

I use Windows 8.1 all day every day @ work and @ home.

Joe

--Joe

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Point well taken Joe. People like you, that are adept at using windows aren’t at the disadvantage of not knowing what 8.1 has and figuring out how to use it.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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lumpy, can I just say that win 8 doesn’t require a touch screen. I don’t have one and can get around with a mouse and keyboard extremely well. I had a PC with XP and it was running like a dog – 15 minutes before I could do anything when I booted. I was beginning to look at how I could improve when when the disk was discombobulated by a power cut – I managed to get Linux on it (but that’s on another thread). My current PC was Win 7 but I took advantage of the cheap intro and haven’t looked back. I now find my wife’s win 7 laptop horrible to use.

All I can say is, yes MS made a mistake by going to a completely new interface (revolution rather than evolution) but it’s been confused by so many people slagging win 8 off without them really analysing it, then others just following the crowd.

If you prefer win 7, then that’s fine. Please don’t accuse win 8 of being things it isn’t.

And to get the post back on topic, I’ve never worried about pagefiles etc. Just let the OS deal with it!

Eliminate spare time: start programming PowerShell

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Sorry OS2_87_Dinosaur, looks like my response kinda hijacked your thread, I apologize.
access-mdb, I’m glad you and Joe like it and I’m sure there are others. Actually you phrased it quite well

MS made a mistake by going to a completely new interface (revolution rather than evolution)

.
I’ve aired my opinion when asked directly so no more needs to come from me in this thread because the discussion on PF’s is above my pay grade. Most of the responder’s know much more about it than I do.

Don't take yourself so seriously, no one else does 🙂
All W10 Pro at 22H2,(2 Desktops, 1 Laptop).

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I could not agree more with rj49, I have been using Windows 8.0/8.1 with ‘Classic Shell’ (http://www.classicshell.net) and have not had any problems. In the ‘Advanced system settings’+’Performance Settings’+’Advanced’+’Change’ windows has a recommended size. I set the min/max at the same size with no adverse affects, and my disc does not fragment due to shrinking and expanding. With the Classic Shell Windows 8 looks and acts very much like Windows Vista/7 with what I consider a very stable OS, and support what rayt435 stated 4575MB versus 1TB?! who cares!

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.
Dear Friends,

I want to thank all for your time and effort.

I think we have a clash of mindsets here.

Imagine you are an intense Gamer who needs to, or wants to (-:
squeeze everything you can out of your computer system.

It is a lot like Sports Car owners. Some never drive over the speed limit, they have no need to, perhaps they don’t even want to … they just like the car!

But Gamers drive their Sports Cars past their limits!

Gamers would OVER CLOCK anything and everything they could including their video cards.

Gamers do not mind voiding warranties on Hardware! Ha Ha!

But the Hard Drive, the Read/Writes to/from the Hard Drive, has always been the BOTTLENECK to speed and performance.

And Page Files that must interact with the Hard Drive (instead of super fast RAM) is an impediment.

Gamers always need the fastest HDs they can get whether Raptors, Cheetahs, using RAIDS, but now Solid State … but this is still not as good as RAM.

Now this thread has been about my son’s sports car of a gaming system.

If I had a system like his (I WISH!) I would turn off the Page File and wait and see if a problem arose, and if so, then I would deal with it.

Personally, I think the state of the art Games have sophisticated enough OS interaction to not have a problem with whether a Page File exists, or where it may be located.

I think the Gaming software would rather appropriate memory for itself, and since my son’s system has tons of RAM,

at least by today’s standards … this could all change next week with some new development!

I think there is plenty of super fast memory to go around, so why slow things down with a Page File that swaps to the much slower Hard Drive?

Also, doesn’t having a Page File astronomically increas the Read/Writes to his Solid State HD that unfortunately will wear out at some point?

IF indeed, there arises a need for a page file,

I LOVE jab68’s recommendations of a RAM disk!

That solves everything and keeps almost everything in the screaming fast RAM.

Who can argue that if there is tons of RAM, that the RAMDisk is not the way to go?

To me, RAMDisk is the best solution, speed and performance wise, if a Page File must exist.

Thanks again Jab68 !

PLEASE – if I am wrong about anything, I would rather be humbled and corrected, then to continue being wrong.

Is my analysis for the needs of an intense Gaming system right or wrong?

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.

Is my analysis for the needs of an intense Gaming system right or wrong?

No, but don’t forget about the Law of Diminishing Returns. There’s always a sweet spot and anything after that is chasing tiny improvements in performance with big bucks.

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No, but don’t forget about the Law of Diminishing Returns. There’s always a sweet spot and anything after that is chasing tiny improvements in performance with big bucks.

Dear F.U.N. downtown,

I am most curious, what do you consider a tiny improvement to be?

If I have researched this correctly, RAMDisk costs between $20 – $60 depending on the brand & capablities desired, it is quite amazing what all it can do, and can possibly extend the life of my son’s SSD … which means it could pay for itself.

This is the links to 2 brands http://memory.dataram.com/products-and-services/software/ramdisk/ramdisk-purchase-and-download

http://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/primo-ramdisk/purchase.html

(-: Also, I agree with you about big bucks. At this phase in my life I certainly am not interested in spending money on computers. I have other interests that fascinate my time these days.

But, this is my son’s money, and his decision, and his entertainment.

He did so much research about each component prior to purchasing and the over-all increase compared to his former system is astonishing.

Computers are “gestalt” .. greater than the sum of their parts .. and improvements really add up!

My son is in the Military, and I am proud of him, and support his choice of entertainment.

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Of course, how one spends his or her monies are their own business, but since you asked…

A Ramdisk is a total and complete un-necessity considering the build in question.
The money is better spent on quality memory, motherboard, multicore processor, GPU,
and a high quality SSD.

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Of course, how one spends his or her monies are their own business, but since you asked…

A Ramdisk is a total and complete un-necessity considering the build in question.
The money is better spent on quality memory, motherboard, multicore processor, GPU,
and a high quality SSD.

Dear Clint,

Your previous post in this thread was one of the ones that helped to convince me that my son’s system likely does not need a page file!

But many believe a page file is needed and hence the solution of RAMDisk. But I have learned that RAMDisk does many other welcome things.

The brand new system he built has the latest in all the technologies you listed: ram, cpu, gpu, ssd, motherboard, etc. All brand new top of the line.

So, what do you mean by “the build in question” and
“money better spent on quality ” ?

Another lounge member recommended RAMDisk as opposed to using his SSD … long story …

I have been researching the RAMDisk and it seems terrific to me.

Would you please go back and look at your previous post in this thread and then would you please tell me why RAMDisk would not be a welcome addition?

Also, RAMDisk claims to be able to extend the life of the SSD. Is this not true?

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My apologies if I misconstrue your thinking, Clint, but I think he is referring to a card to which you would add RAM, which would then function like a drive. That would be a waste of money.

The pcworld article Dinosaur linked is exactly what I had in mind. Out of the 32 GB of RAM, set aside something like 4 GB for a drive partition, and put the page file on it. This leaves 28 GB for Windows to play with, more than enough.

Dear Clint,

Your previous post in this thread was one of the ones that helped to convince me that my son’s system likely does not need a page file!

But many believe a page file is needed and hence the solution of RAMDisk. But I have learned that RAMDisk does many other welcome things.

The brand new system he built has the latest in all the technologies you listed: ram, cpu, gpu, ssd, motherboard, etc. All brand new top of the line.

So, what do you mean by “the build in question” and
“money better spent on quality ” ?

Another lounge member recommended RAMDisk as opposed to using his SSD … long story …

I have been researching the RAMDisk and it seems terrific to me.

Would you please go back and look at your previous post in this thread and then would you please tell me why RAMDisk would not be a welcome addition?

Also, RAMDisk claims to be able to extend the life of the SSD. Is this not true?

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My apologies if I misconstrue your thinking, Clint, but I think he is referring to a card to which you would add RAM, which would then function like a drive. That would be a waste of money.

The pcworld article Dinosaur linked is exactly what I had in mind. Out of the 32 GB of RAM, set aside something like 4 GB for a drive partition, and put the page file on it. This leaves 28 GB for Windows to play with, more than enough.

I fail to see any point or gain in paging something out of RAM into RAM. Leave all 32GB of RAM available to the system. Once the system boots, there will be no more paging going on (for a gamer) with that much RAM. One is not likely to be trying to play multiple games at once, so there will only be one game loaded, and the networking associated if one is playing online. RAM to spare.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I fail to see any point or gain in paging something out of RAM into RAM. Leave all 32GB of RAM available to the system. Once the system boots, there will be no more paging going on (for a gamer) with that much RAM. One is not likely to be trying to play multiple games at once, so there will only be one game loaded, and the networking associated if one is playing online. RAM to spare.

Dear bbearen,

Thank you so much for your previous fascinating post about CPU cycles … I just love that kind of stuff!

Also, on earlier 32 bit systems with restricted RAM sizes I also had a second HD (a small Raptor 10,000rpm, another system a 15,000 rpm) exclusively for the Paging needs. It was quite wonderful.

But regarding this current post of yours:

You need to know more about my son’s brain! Ha Ha! It is comprised of “Parallel” processors … I swear it is true! and they all “Multi-process”.

Truly, I get dizzy watching him play and work at the same time on his PC.

So, long story short, he does have a lot of stuff going at the same time in his brain and on his system.

Please see my next post about what I have learned about RAMDisk.

For my son’s purposes, 4GB will be given to system needs via RAMDisk, and 28GB will remain and be more then adequate for his other usage.

Furthermore, I am convinced that it could, just as advertised, prolong the life of his Solid State that did cost him a lot of money! (-:

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My apologies if I misconstrue your thinking, Clint, but I think he is referring to a card to which you would add RAM, which would then function like a drive. That would be a waste of money.

The pcworld article Dinosaur linked is exactly what I had in mind. Out of the 32 GB of RAM, set aside something like 4 GB for a drive partition, and put the page file on it. This leaves 28 GB for Windows to play with, more than enough.

Dear Friends,

Thank you to everyone for you help and time.

Thank you again so much to you Jab68! You have solved all dilemmas in a most satisfying way (especially to an old retired coder) with your RAMDisk recommendation!

PENDING TESTING:
this is the resolution for my son’s Gaming system with 32 GB RAM:

32GB RAM – 4 GB for RAMDisk for Page File = 28GB RAM (plenty for his Gaming needs)

In Mathematics, when a solution is quite lovely, we say it is beautiful.

In Computer Science, when a coding solution is quite remarkable and beautiful, we say that it is elegant.

To me, RAMDisk is an elegant solution.

Instead of sharing my research, I will share a few links for you all to research if you are interested.

Incidentally, I am so intrigued with RAMDisk that I plan to add more RAM to my personal system just so that I can play with it and experiment!

My son will not allow me to “experiment” with his system. He says I am more cruel to Hardware then Gamers are! (-:

There are so many possible applications and purposes for RAMDisk. Some for those with slow HDs but lots of RAM, others for those with certain Solid State drives benefiting from a situation that will prolong life.

I just wish I had learned about this years ago!

3 Links:

“How to supercharge your PC with RAMDISK” from PCWorld

http://www.pcworld.com/article/260918/how_to_supercharge_your_pc_with_a_ram_disk.html

http://www.romexsoftware.com/en-us/primo-ramdisk/index.html

http://memory.dataram.com/products-and-services/software/ramdisk/

P.S. we will NOT be going the Free route because there are many benefits to licensing.

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Hey Y’all,

Here’s an article on Help Desk Geek that I found enlightening. Of course, this refers to Win 8 but still Germain to this discussion. HTH :cheers:

May the Forces of good computing be with you!

RG

PowerShell & VBA Rule!
Computer Specs

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Hey Y’all,

Here’s an article on Help Desk Geek that I found enlightening. Of course, this refers to Win 8 but still Germain to this discussion. HTH :cheers:

Dear Retired Geek,

FYI: this response is about my personal PC,

Not my son’s Gaming PC that is the issue of the rest of this thread thread.

Very interesting Windows 8 article. Thank you so much for sharing it.

I just wish that the following quote were true for all previous versions of Windows:

“The paging file is only used if all RAM is exhausted …. ”

However, Windows 8 is using the page files or swap files for other purposes now so I can’t be confident at all that it really has improved memory issues. But since I do not have Windows 8/8.1 I can’t experiment and learn what is really true.

Incidentally, what it says regarding Hibernation is contrary to my experience because the past 2 years to serve some unique needs I have needed to use hibernation daily to “save my states” which are usually huge including lots of different browsers (that don’t share data) and tons of tabs and other stuff going on … therefore precluding shutdowns, but allowing everything powered off when I need things powered off.

Therefore, it takes a long time to hibernate and power off, and then a really long time when I power on. But, I am not in a hurry because I need it this way.

By the way, I have a Desktop with an U.P.S. (not a Laptop with a Battery). So my customized power configurations are not power or time critical.

The article gives me hope about more Microsoft innovations coming soon regarding efficient adaptations depending on the needs of the user.

I love the way it attempts to distinguish between ‘low end’ systems and ‘high end’ systems, and therefore adapts its interface accordingly … that is a wonderful step forward.

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Dear Clint,
Your previous post in this thread was one of the ones that helped to convince me that my son’s system likely does not need a page file!

It’s not so much that you don’t need a PF, it’s more like “you don’t need that much of a PF”,
at least nowhere near 32GB. (up to the amount of your total RAM)
This whole PF discussion is a non issue. With 32GB of decently clocked RAM (@minimum 1600MHz)
you can get by with a 1-4 GB PF with absolutely no issues.

But many believe a page file is needed and hence the solution of RAMDisk. But I have learned that RAMDisk does many other welcome things.

Yeah, but those “many” have very weak anemic systems that would probably benefit from the use of a RAMDisk.
Your son’s hardware spec is not among them and therefore will be a complete waste of money and hardware.
[I]my definition of a weak system is what most people actually have[/I]

KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid
(I’m not saying you’re stupid, it’s just a helpful acronym I employ)
Don’t add unnecessary complexity, and that’s exactly what a RAMDisk is in your situation.

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It’s not so much that you don’t need a PF, it’s more like “you don’t need that much of a PF”,
at least nowhere near 32GB. (up to the amount of your total RAM)
This whole PF discussion is a non issue. With 32GB of decently clocked RAM (@minimum 1600MHz)
you can get by with a 1-4 GB PF with absolutely no issues.

Yeah, but those “many” have very weak anemic systems that would probably benefit from the use of a RAMDisk.
Your son’s hardware spec is not among them and therefore will be a complete waste of money and hardware.
[I]my definition of a weak system is what most people actually have[/I]

KISS=Keep It Simple Stupid
(I’m not saying you’re stupid, it’s just a helpful acronym I employ)
Don’t add unnecessary complexity, and that’s exactly what a RAMDisk is in your situation.

Dear Clint,

the RAMDisk is NOT Hardware. Please read the posts from jab68 … my son and I are going to test 4GB of RAM dedicated to the system for Page File needs via RAMDisk.

Also, it can be done for free, but we are going to go the licensing route that is cheap and has better options and support

Also, after researching, I am convinced it really could prolong the life of his expensive Solid State drive.

P.S. I love complexity! even when it is unnecessary … if it is fun! (and even more-so if it works, or at least teaches me something new).

P.P.S.S. an old military saying K.I.S.S. =
“Keep It Sweetly Sophisticated”

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Neither physics nor logic will uphold the benefit of reducing the size of available RAM so that one may set aside RAM to be used as a RAM disk for paging. If it has enough room in RAM, it won’t be paged out (except for Windows boot processes, which will always be paged out if a page file exists on the system). What it amounts to is that creating a RAM disk and reducing the total available RAM necessitates having a RAM disk to handle the paging that must take place because of the reduced amount of RAM.

I have all spinners in my desktop, and programs load almost as quickly in my desktop as they do in my laptop, which has a SSD, on the initial load after a reboot. Beyond that, I don’t shut down my PC (reboots for updates or installs is the only down time it gets), and programs load with a snap. Here’s what I’m talking about.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Neither physics nor logic will uphold the benefit of reducing the size of available RAM so that one may set aside RAM to be used as a RAM disk for paging. If it has enough room in RAM, it won’t be paged out (except for Windows boot processes, which will always be paged out if a page file exists on the system). What it amounts to is that creating a RAM disk and reducing the total available RAM necessitates having a RAM disk to handle the paging that must take place because of the reduced amount of RAM.

I have all spinners in my desktop, and programs load almost as quickly in my desktop as they do in my laptop, which has a SSD, on the initial load after a reboot. Beyond that, I don’t shut down my PC (reboots for updates or installs is the only down time it gets), and programs load with a snap. Here’s what I’m talking about.

Dear bbearren,

But you recommended in a previous post installing a second HD to keep the PF on !!! ???

Does that make any more sense for my son’s system then a RAMDisk Page File?

I say again, were this my system (I WISH!) then I would do exactly what you do with your W7 … NO PAGE FILE!

But my son wants a Page File … loooong story.

Plus, if RAMDisk turns out to be a hog, then we can always try something different!

New learning experiences can be invaluable!

Personally, I am curious to see what happens (-:

If eventually you are able to say “I told you so” … then so be it … we are going to try it …

jab68 makes a lot of sense to me too.

Plus, now I am currently fascinated with RAMDisk and we will get 2 licenses for the same price so that I can have fun experimenting with it on my system!

Whatever new tech one tries .. one learns … and if there is always the possibility of sounding “retreat” then it is a favorable strategy, in my opinion, as long as my pocket book can responsibly afford it, and RAMDisk license is cheap for the lessons I anticipate that I will learn and the fun I will have.
(-:

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Dear bbearren,

But you recommended in a previous post installing a second HD to keep the PF on !!! ???

Does that make any more sense for my son’s system then a RAMDisk Page File?

I say again, were this my system (I WISH!) then I would do exactly what you do with your W7 … NO PAGE FILE!

But my son wants a Page File … loooong story.

Plus, if RAMDisk turns out to be a hog, then we can always try something different!

New learning experiences can be invaluable!

Personally, I am curious to see what happens (-:

If eventually you are able to say “I told you so” … then so be it … we are going to try it …

jab68 makes a lot of sense to me too.

Plus, now I am currently fascinated with RAMDisk and we will get 2 licenses for the same price so that I can have fun experimenting with it on my system!

Whatever new tech one tries .. one learns … and if there is always the possibility of sounding “retreat” then it is a favorable strategy, in my opinion, as long as my pocket book can responsibly afford it, and RAMDisk license is cheap for the lessons I anticipate that I will learn and the fun I will have.
(-:

I suggested an additional HDD for the page file because you said your son wanted a page file. And I’ve run at least two HDD’s in my desktops since the mid ’90’s.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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I suggested an additional HDD for the page file because you said your son wanted a page file. And I’ve run at least two HDD’s in my desktops since the mid ’90’s.

Dear bbearren,

As I have stated before, I once set up his system a few years ago with a RAID using 2 Raptors (they were either 10,000 or 15,000 rpm) … the speed from RAIDs are awesome … I really wanted to do it with 4 Raptors but ran out of money (-: They were so expensive back then and small. So much better in recent years. RAIDs were amazing.

As I also stated, I have in the past had a second HD dedicated exclusively to the Page File and it was sweet (also a Raptor).

But, after researching Jab68‘s recommendation …

I really believe that the benchmarking tests with giving 4GB RAM to the software RAMDisk for the Page File will prove technically faster than having another HD dedicated to it the PF.

Though, I anticipate the gain will be minimal, I believe there will be gain, then it will really have been a fun inexpensive experience (-:

Also, as I stated, with the 2nd license we get for free … I am going to do tons of experiments on my own system … including certain Browser data and all kinds of other possibilities & Configurations.

“The physics and logic”, as you say, of keeping as much data manipulation within RAM as possible, thereby reducing journeys to and from the slower SSD is sound …

also, it sounds like it really can prolong the life of the SSD. But preserving the SSD is secondary in priority because speed is the first priority … and remember a lot of this is for curiosity’s sake, learning new things, and having fun! Computing should have an element of fun & exploration & discovery … if not, then it is just a cold, boring piece of machinery serving bland tasks. God bless you!

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Dear bbearren,
… and remember a lot of this is for curiosity’s sake, learning new things, and having fun! Computing should have an element of fun & exploration & discovery … if not, then it is just a cold, boring piece of machinery serving bland tasks. God bless you!

Click on my web site link in my signature.

Always create a fresh drive image before making system changes/Windows updates; you may need to start over!

We all have our own reasons for doing the things that we do with our systems; we don't need anyone's approval, and we don't all have to do the same things.

We were all once "Average Users".

Computer Specs

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Click on my web site link in my signature.

Dear bbearren,

the first time you posted in this thread I followed that link!

But then I noticed some articles by you about “Free Will” that I am still working on reading.

(-: I got sidetracked from all of your computer information that I sill have on my To Do list to read.

I am a full-time student of Christian Reformed Theology …

and that is why I was fascinated with your philosophical treatment about “Free Will”

Thank so much for everything and when I finish reading everything of yours on your site … I will definitely send you some feedback and probably lots of questions … if you do not mind.

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Neither physics nor logic will uphold the benefit of reducing the size of available RAM so that one may set aside RAM to be used as a RAM disk for paging. If it has enough room in RAM, it won’t be paged out (except for Windows boot processes, which will always be paged out if a page file exists on the system). What it amounts to is that creating a RAM disk and reducing the total available RAM necessitates having a RAM disk to handle the paging that must take place because of the reduced amount of RAM.

I have all spinners in my desktop, and programs load almost as quickly in my desktop as they do in my laptop, which has a SSD, on the initial load after a reboot. Beyond that, I don’t shut down my PC (reboots for updates or installs is the only down time it gets), and programs load with a snap. Here’s what I’m talking about.

p.s. Btw – I understand what you mean … but his current RAM usage easily can withstand the 4GB loss with plenty of “unused” RAM to spare! … and I understand what you mean by the RAMDisk constant presence seeming like a self-defeating concept … but only benchmarking will bear all of this out .. and as I said before, we can always try something else if the numbers prove this to be a slower method of having a Page File.

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Neither physics nor logic will uphold the benefit of reducing the size of available RAM so that one may set aside RAM to be used as a RAM disk for paging. If it has enough room in RAM, it won’t be paged out (except for Windows boot processes, which will always be paged out if a page file exists on the system). What it amounts to is that creating a RAM disk and reducing the total available RAM necessitates having a RAM disk to handle the paging that must take place because of the reduced amount of RAM.

I have all spinners in my desktop, and programs load almost as quickly in my desktop as they do in my laptop, which has a SSD, on the initial load after a reboot. Beyond that, I don’t shut down my PC (reboots for updates or installs is the only down time it gets), and programs load with a snap. Here’s what I’m talking about.

Dear bbearren,

But you recommended in a previous post installing a second HD to keep the PF on !!! ???

Does that make any more sense for my son’s system then a RAMDisk Page File?

I say again, were this my system (I WISH!) then I would do exactly what you do with your W7 … NO PAGE FILE!

But my son wants a Page File … loooong story.

Plus, if RAMDisk turns out to be a hog, then we can always try something different!

New learning experiences can be invaluable!

Personally, I am curious to see what happens (-:

If eventually you are able to say “I told you so” … then so be it … we are going to try it …

jab68 makes a lot of sense to me too.

Plus, now I am currently fascinated with RAMDisk and we will get 2 licenses for the same price so that I can have fun experimenting with it on my system!

Whatever new tech one tries .. one learns … and if there is always the possibility of sounding “retreat” then it is a favorable strategy, in my opinion, as long as my pocket book can responsibly afford it, and RAMDisk license is cheap for the lessons I anticipate that I will learn and the fun I will have.
(-:

p.s. Btw – I understand what you mean … but his current RAM usage easily can withstand the 4GB loss with plenty of “unused” RAM to spare! … and I understand what you mean by the RAMDisk constant presence seeming like a self-defeating concept … but only benchmarking will bear all of this out .. and as I said before, we can always try something else if the numbers prove this to be a slower method of having a Page File.

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I’ve been following this thread with interest as I experimented with RAM drives some time ago, both on XP and W7.
I thought that putting the page file on a RAM disk was a good idea, and it is if you never turn off your PC.

The reason I say that is RAM drives are set up during the boot process, after switching on, so if windows wants to use a pagefile prior to the RAM drive drivers kicking in, then it has to setup the temp solution referred to previously. This seems to create problems that are hard to diagnose, and I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle, so I stopped using a RAM drive for the pagefile, which is now of fixed size and resides on the fastest HDD partition I have outside C:, which is itself the sole occupant of an SSD.

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I’ve been following this thread with interest as I experimented with RAM drives some time ago, both on XP and W7.
I thought that putting the page file on a RAM disk was a good idea, and it is if you never turn off your PC.

The reason I say that is RAM drives are set up during the boot process, after switching on, so if windows wants to use a pagefile prior to the RAM drive drivers kicking in, then it has to setup the temp solution referred to previously. This seems to create problems that are hard to diagnose, and I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle, so I stopped using a RAM drive for the pagefile, which is now of fixed size and resides on the fastest HDD partition I have outside C:, which is itself the sole occupant of an SSD.

Dear Alex,

Are you talking about the Hardware RAM Disk?

or the Software RAMDisk that we want to try?

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Dear Alex,

Are you talking about the Hardware RAM Disk?

or the Software RAMDisk that we want to try?

I don’t understand your question. RAM is hardware, but it needs software for some of it to be accessed by an operating system. This software is usually loaded at boot time.

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I don’t understand your question. RAM is hardware, but it needs software for some of it to be accessed by an operating system. This software is usually loaded at boot time.

Dear Alex,

1) Forgive me if I was wrong about some things and/or misunderstood your earlier post.

I thought someone in this thread mentioned a Hardware Drive that was essentially very fast but volatile like RAM … and called a RAM Drive, though many said RAM Disk.

I had never heard of that before, and when you spoke of “Boot sequences” it made me think of the BIOS of setting the HW boot sequence.

So, that is why I thought there was a brilliant piece of Hardware available called a RAM Drive, though volatile … unlike the Solid State non-volatile Drives that are so similar sounding.

2) Then Jab68 shared about the software RAMDisk that creates a Virtual Ram Drive … called RAM Disk …

I had never heard of that before either and I still think its brilliant in so many ways, for so many reasons … and I thought you did too?

3) So, now I know you were referring to this virtual RAM Disk that I wanted to try on my own system for Browsers and things, and on my son’s Gaming system for the Page File.

4) So, now I know that the Boot problem you encountered was with this kind of Ram Disk.

You mentioned that its entrance into the Start-up sequence can be delayed, causing Windows to create a temp PF when there is an absence of a PF.

5) Would you please explain why you found it best to have a Page File when you have an abundance of RAM? Is it because of the system created Temp Page-file that you and Satrow spoke of?

6) Why did you put the Page-file on the slower HDD instead of the SSD?

7) I am glad to hear that you did have some positive experiences with the RAMDisk and I thank you for sharing those.

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5) Would you please explain why you found it best to have a Page File when you have an abundance of RAM? Is it because of the system created Temp Page-file that you and Satrow spoke of?

6) Why did you put the Page-file on the slower HDD instead of the SSD?

I hadn’t thought of not having a pagefile, as I said I was experimenting ‘for the sake of it’ in the hopes of speeding my system up.
I decided the snags arising from the setting up of the RAMdisk outweighed any benefits.

I put the pagefile on a SATA drive to save having to make excessive writes to the SSD. hopefully with plenty of RAM it won’t be needed too often and won’t slow things down too much.

If your son’s PC is mainly used for gaming then I don’t think messing about with the pagefile will have any measurable benefits.
As many others have stated, leave it to windows to sort out its needs.

Good luck!

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I’ve been following this thread with interest as I experimented with RAM drives some time ago, both on XP and W7.
I thought that putting the page file on a RAM disk was a good idea, and it is if you never turn off your PC.

The reason I say that is RAM drives are set up during the boot process, after switching on, so if windows wants to use a pagefile prior to the RAM drive drivers kicking in, then it has to setup the temp solution referred to previously. This seems to create problems that are hard to diagnose, and I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle, so I stopped using a RAM drive for the pagefile, which is now of fixed size and resides on the fastest HDD partition I have outside C:, which is itself the sole occupant of an SSD.

P.S.

Why did you decide to run Windows 7 with a Page File in the first place?

I most sincerely appreciate your expertise, and personally, I love your additional SSD idea exclusively for the Page File, but I was hoping the software RAMDisk might prove faster … but also might not! (-:

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P.S.

Why did you decide to run Windows 7 with a Page File in the first place?

I most sincerely appreciate your expertise, and personally, I love your additional SSD idea exclusively for the Page File, but I was hoping the software RAMDisk might prove faster … but also might not! (-:

As I said, I was experimenting, hoping to find ways to speed up windows.
Also you misread my reply, it was an HDD, not an SSD I ended up setting a dedicated partition on. The SSD was dedicated to C: drive.

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I’ve been following this thread with interest as I experimented with RAM drives some time ago, both on XP and W7.
I thought that putting the page file on a RAM disk was a good idea, and it is if you never turn off your PC.

The reason I say that is RAM drives are set up during the boot process, after switching on, so if windows wants to use a pagefile prior to the RAM drive drivers kicking in, then it has to setup the temp solution referred to previously. This seems to create problems that are hard to diagnose, and I decided it wasn’t worth the hassle, so I stopped using a RAM drive for the pagefile, which is now of fixed size and resides on the fastest HDD partition I have outside C:, which is itself the sole occupant of an SSD.

Dear Alex,

I am eagerly awaiting your answers to my previous questions.

(-: sincerely appreciate your time and expertise.

And, I really want to verify if you were using Physical Hardware RAM drives, and if so, what are your opinions about the software RAMDisk?

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Better to keep 3rd party drivers to the absolute minimum for best stability. Work with the OS instead of against it.

Don’t forget that to save a few seconds per day, you might need to waste many hours before that getting the best RAMdisk for your usage installed, stable and tested and the optimum setting might lead to a slower boot time. Then someone suggests a different one …

Find out what your actual PF usage is first and how to ‘control’ it, if you think you’ve ‘disabled’ Windows paging file, check (for the existence of a temp one) at the end of a hard session, tools/methods are in my earlier posts.

Naysayers? Hmm, this one still has 2+ RAMdisk programs installed from his last journey in search of Shangri La.

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`
Naysayers? Hmm, this one still has 2+ RAMdisk programs installed from his last journey in search of Shangri La.

Dear satrow,

😀 😮 🙂 😉 :rolleyes: 😎

Please know how much I have appreciated all of your posts and all of the time you invested to help me.

I LOVE that you have also visited Shangi La! You might think you are cured … but I bet you will go on another journey …

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Here’s what you/your son need to do: tests. I like PCMark/3DMark, availablehere.

1st test: no pagefile, fresh reboot. Wait 15 minutes for all startup processes to complete, then Run PCMark, record score.
2nd test: 4GB fixed (identical min/max) page file, fresh reboot. Wait 15 minutes for all startup processes to complete, then Run PCMark, record score.
3rd test: 4GB RAM disk page file, fresh reboot. Wait 15 minutes for all startup processes to complete, then Run PCMark, record score.

You will most likely find no difference in scores, or if there is a difference it will likely be less than 20 points. Multiple tests may lead to minor score variations as well, if you want to do each test 3 times and then average the scores.

All the advice in the world doesn’t matter; you need to see what actually works best on your particular computer.

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OS/2 Warp?? Too bad Geoworks couldn’t get a better following.

Before you wonder "Am I doing things right," ask "Am I doing the right things?"

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without getting into specifics …. this is in response to a number of posts …. For example, when we set out to drive a car we have to take time to start it up … let it warm up … check the temps and pressures … and then drive! So, getting the Gaming system into the optimal state to have the best screaming performance in the game may take some contortions and some time … but the objective is for the system to prepare and achieve the optimal state for playing the game. In my son’s case, he rarely powers off …. but has an U.P.S. to conduct a proper shutdown in his absence if there are any power issues …. since that is rare … his system runs for loooong periods of time and he doesn’t care if the shutdowns & startups are little slower than could be since he rarely does them and they are not his objective. How it performs during the game is all that matters! Lots of seemingly little improvemnets often do add up because Gaming systems are Gestalt.

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`
Zeus36 wrote this interesting post in the thread entitled:
“Do you have a lot of RAM? Have you heard of RAM Disk software?”

I use RAMDISK to run Cyberfox 64 bit browser. I have 16 GB ram so I can allocate a few GB to the RAMDISK. My PC is using a Samsung 840 Pro SSD for the OS and games and I’ve run the computer with system managed Pagefile, manual set Pagefile, No pagefile, pagefile on the second HD, two page files, etc… Haven’t seen much of difference and no problem with pagefile turned off.

There are settings that allow the RAMDISK to write all your data to the SSD or HD when you close the RAMDISK, if you want to save history, cookies, and stuff like that. One of the drawbacks if you don’t set the RAMDISK to autostart (and I don’t) – you have to start it before firing up that browser or program.

It really makes for one snappy browser running with RAMDISK.

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What makes you think all the people responding to your queries are experts in gaming systems configured with 32GB RAM and an SSD like yours? Indeed, what makes you think any of them is? The only way you’ll get a definitive answer is by benchmarking the system in question in the various configurations – I did suggest benchmarking before. Just don’t be surprised if the differences are trivial. About the only thing you can be sure of without benchmarking is that creating a RAMdisk and putting the page file on that will be a waste of time.

Cheers,
Paul Edstein
[Fmr MS MVP - Word]

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About the only thing you can be sure of without benchmarking is that creating a RAMdisk and putting the page file on that will be a waste of time.

I agree.

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What makes you think all the people responding to your queries are experts in gaming systems configured with 32GB RAM and an SSD like yours? Indeed, what makes you think any of them is? The only way you’ll get a definitive answer is by benchmarking the system in question in the various configurations – I did suggest benchmarking before. Just don’t be surprised if the differences are trivial. About the only thing you can be sure of without benchmarking is that creating a RAMdisk and putting the page file on that will be a waste of time.

Dear Macropod,

Thank you for your time and help.

First) please know that everyone in this Forum thread sounds exceedingly intelligent to me, including you! I mean this quite sincerely. And, I am certain all are no doubt “experts” in various things applying to their arenas and agendas.

Second) Please know that I also mentioned the precise term ‘benchmarking’ in an earlier post in this thread … long before you mentioned it .. and yes, you are correct, personal testing will be the key.

But if one decides against a plan of action that sounds appealing, never experienced it themselves, never bench-marked it, never tests an array of its applications … then they are just trusting what everybody else in the thread said, right?

Now in this thread and the other thread, and research conducted elsewhere about RAMDisk have had positive experiences with it.

3) Through the years I was intimately involved with each of my son’s Gaming systems until this one. For this one, my son researched all of the hardware himself (purchased everything with his money) and I will be posting what his decision concerning a lot of these issues are, especially his VERY HUMOROUS, but impeccably logical, decision concerning his SSD :rolleyes:

4) Does anybody remember GIZMO? He merged his Tech Newsletter recipients with this Forum’s Windows Secrets Newsletter years ago.

For years I loved his Newsletter, and also his advice to questions.

GIZMO taught me to try new things (but always after Backups & always with a sound military like “Retreat” plan! Ha Ha)

He was also an expert on freeware and shareware programs, tools, applications, etc But also commercial software when it would be helpful.

Years ago when I proclaimed to Tech friends that i was going to setting up a Raptor RAID [RAID 0 striping (not mirroring)], (idea gleaned from GIZMO) on my son’s next Gaming system, they all balked … said it was a waste of time.

Also, because it was so expensive to do, they all said “waste of money … waste of time”

But I had researched it painstakingly, including even business and professional uses of it and application.

I was fascinated with RAIDS [RAID 0 striping (not mirroring)], but also with the high speed rpm HD RAPTORS, and wanted to put the 2 together.

4) Well! I decided that even if the RAID0 it turned out to be a negligible improvement in system performance,

it would be an invaluable learning experience for my son and for me.

Also, I knew the SATA RAPTORS would be wonderful upgrades to the painfully slow 7,200 rpm HDs, ( still IDE’s, I think … I am having a senior moment … I think we were upgrading to SATA and I wanted the RAPTOR speed).

5) By the time my son & I had the RAID0 working perfectly (and many other innovations we also tried …. IT WAS AWESOME! screaming fast!

BUT, MOST IMPORTANT we also had every spec of the Motherboard and the BIOS memorized!

Just what we learned, and also debugging & troubleshooting techniques were worth every cent!

6) I also was HOME-SCHOOLING my son and it was all chalked up to “Educational expenses” also … hint hint … 😮

7) In my RAMDisk research, I even found some very old info in this Forum about RAM Drives in Windows 2000, for example.

It is beyond me. Since I used Windows 2000 for years on a server, why did I never hear of RAM drives???

or did I hear about them way back when and knew I didn’t have enough RAM and couldn’t afford more RAM, (I had expensive Error Checking RAM) and then deleted the concept of a RAM drive from my memory banks? possible?

8) But I think RAM drives have so much possibilities, especially since that is the direction that OS’s are developing and evolving toward …

… that the things I know I will learn (and always all of the unintentional educational experiences, especially when you get into trouble and have to get yourself out of trouble … Ha HA)

will be worth the $20 spent for the licenses, and whatever time invested following the directions (and can also get free support from them with the licenses) ..

and if all of you are right that there will be negligible performance gains … and even if we wind up un-installing it, so be it.

9) But I already know that I will be using it on my system for significant improvement in browsing. And the VOLATILE nature is what I like best because I want everything to disappear after browsing sessions! and I have learned that even though I set browsers to dump everything, and use Ccleaner several times daily also, it takes a lot of contortions to eradicate and annihilate all of the data from all of the different browsers I use! RAMDisk will help save time for me, on my system, for that aspect alone.

At least I think so … but won’t know anything until I try it.

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5) By the time my son & I had the RAID [RAID 0 striping (not mirroring)], working perfectly (and many other innovations we also tried …. IT WAS AWESOME! screaming fast!

BUT, MOST IMPORTANT we also had every spec of the Motherboard and the BIOS memorized!

Just what we learned, and also debugging & troubleshooting techniques were worth every cent!

6) I also was HOME-SCHOOLING my son and it was all chalked up to “Educational expenses” also … hint hint … 😮

P.S. This is about Item 5) above, concerning years ago about one of my son’s Gaming systems. FYI: we also took the time to set the system up without it being a RAID0 for testing and curiosity’s sake. That took a lot of time doing so many OS installs and changing things in the BIOS & Motherboard … it was tedious … but it was worth it because the RAID0 was so significantly faster from the “operator’s” perspective that we didn’t bother doing any actual time tests …. should I tell you the story about “Liquid Cooling” tests for performance improvement ? 😉 looong story and just too funny. 😉

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UPDATE 9/19/2014

For a summary of this thread, please go to my post at this Date & Time

2014-09-11, 22:57

…

Dear Macropod,

something of a serious nature will be preventing me from doing any of the aforementioned testing for an unknown length of time. Therefore, I do promise (for the sake of anyone who may be interested) to create a new thread whenever the testing takes place and can share the results.

Therefore, if there is no other reason to keep this thread open, just want you to know that you have my well wishes if you want to close it.

May God Bless all of our nations and keep them safe.

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Ya, mixed bag of “experts.” So much advice is predicated on other motivations, one must have the ability to pick out pertinent advice. For instance, some will put the PF on a SATA drive and spare the system SSD in hopes of extending it’s life, but if there is an overabundance of RAM to the extent that the pagefile is infrequently used, who cares.

The other point is, you want to avoid extremes; freeways greatly reduce points of entry and egress, but they do not eliminate them. Water heaters have a safety pressure valve that may never activate for the life of the water heater, but they all have one.

The last point is gimmicks; spend time on them if you wish, but don’t elevate them to any level approaching equal importance. They can be as good or better than basic configurations but also substantially less effective in certain situations. For instance, a roundabout probably works about as effectively as a four way under most conditions…now hold a pro bicycle race on the same roundabout containing roads on a wet day and there are many more accidents than there would be if they were all 4-ways.

The most important characteristic for a gaming system is balance, or that it’s only as strong as the weakest link. I’m pretty sure 32 Gigs of RAM is not the weakest link :^_^:, and if ya want a small safety valve (pagefile), leave one in, if not, yank it out, it won’t make any difference most likely 99.9% of the time regardless of the computer task(s). Historically the weakest link on all my gaming systems which necessitated upgrading was processor speed and especially graphic capability. I’ve never upgraded due to RAM shortfall and the most I have in any system is 8 Gigs.

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Anyone can come here and say whatever they please. Its’ confusing? Yes, it may be. You need to look at each of the replies and decide how much you will value the reply and the poster. It’s hard to find out who has actually tested different configurations and is speaking from experience, just general knowledge or is just replying based on very narrow experiences that don’t even apply to you.

I know someone who bought a machine with 24 GB RAM and uses a RAMDisk. I am sure he doesn’t want a different configuration. Whether he tried his system without the RAMDisk, I don’t really know, but he sure is happy with his configuration.

So, as macropod stated, you won’t know yourself without going through some testing and it must be serious to establish the validity of the conclusions. On clinical trials, they use placebos for a reason!

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