I’m gradually weaning myself away from Windows-only apps, using cloud-based apps (through both Chrome and Firefox) to get most of my work done. There’
[See the full post at: Chromebooks may get the capability to dual-boot into Windows]
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Chromebooks may get the capability to dual-boot into Windows
- This topic has 46 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 4 months ago by
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AuthorViewing 14 reply threadsAuthor-
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No such thing as privacy anymore if you’re on the internet.
Red Ruffnsore
1 user thanked author for this post.
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The dual-boot Chromebook is still work in progress, so how much storage it will have when is finally brought to market is unknown.
A somewhat related question is whether it is, or will be, possible to dual-boot with any other OS than Windows 10.
The comment by MrJimPhelps on telemetry below ( #210278 ) is an interesting one because it is probably relevant, by implication, to Chromebooks present as well as future. Maybe he could elaborate on that point?
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV -
Google earns just about all their money by collecting as much information as they can from their users, and then selling ads based on that information. I can’t imagine any reason other than that for Google developing the ability to dual-boot into Windows on a Chromebook. In other words, they will be collecting info every time you are on the Chromebook, whether you are running Windows or Chrome.
I have no doubt that Windows will in fact be running on top of some Google firmware, or it will in fact be running inside of Chrome. In other words, Google will run Windows in such a way that allows them to collect the maximum amount of personal information from those running Windows on the Chromebook.
So if you are uncomfortable with the amount of data that Microsoft is collecting when you run Windows on a Windows machine, imagine how much more data will be collected when you are running Windows on a Chromebook.
Jim
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server -
MrJimPhelps: ” Google earns just about all their money by collecting as much information as they can from their users, and then selling ads based on that information. ”
If that is about tailoring adds to my personal interests, they would be wasting their time, as I use AddBlock in all my browsers, including Chrome, practically everywhere other than some very few places, such as Woody’s, home of the “polite” adds. And only click on adds rarely and only by mistake, because I am extremely allergic to them (I do not even watch commercial TV any longer).
If that is about collecting users’ metadata to sell in bulk to add companies and to their “partner companies”, then yes, I might have a problem with that, purely because one cannot tell just how much is anonymized and how much is still personally identifiable information. Or who, exactly, are those “partners” and what they want those data for.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV2 users thanked author for this post.
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I don’t know which is true; but I do know that Google is one of the wealthiest companies in the world, largely due to their collection of people’s personal data.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server1 user thanked author for this post.
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Weaning oneself from commercial TV may be considered a sign of intelligence, and weaning oneself contributes to mental health. Commercial TV today is filled up with ads and gratuitous sex and violence.
About the only thing I watch on TV is public television and some sporting events. Commercial news on one evening is enough.
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If you are concerned about Windows telemetry, then dual-booting Windows on a Chromebook should really give you a panic attack. It seems to me that running Windows on a Chromebook will move you from sandlot softball to major league baseball with regard to telemetry.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file serverOK, I understand (and sympathize with) the privacy question. But lemme ask you this:
Do you really think ChromeOS ships more personally identified data to Google than, say, Win10 (or even Win7, when fully updated) ships to Microsoft?
4 users thanked author for this post.
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Woody: Good question. If Google shipped as much as MS, then the total being shipped would be 200% (assuming their destinations do not overlap) of what MS would ship on its own; if it shipped half as much, then 150%; if 1/4 as much, then 125%…
Seriously now, I wished your question had a good answer, but I doubt that we, looking from the outside, can know enough, or will ever be able to know enough to answer it. (Except for the occasional big scandal, a la Facebook, that is.)
So, as always in cases like this, maybe the question of just how bad can be to use any of Google’s products and services, finally boils down to: “Do you feel lucky, punk?”
I do use Google a lot to search the Web, so I definitely feel lucky when doing that.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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I think one of the big questions in this situation how the two systems make use of the data they gather.
If I am entirely honest, Google collecting my data bothers me less than Microsoft, if only because I have a more clear understanding of what Microsoft does with my data. I think on a personal level, having my personal computer being conscripted as an unwilling test dummy bothers me a lot more than just having my data collected for ad revenue.
Whether I should consider Google a more trustworthy gatekeeper of my private information than I should Microsoft is a question for the ages, but Microsoft’s actions in the past year have all but exhausted whatever credibility they ever had. The way Windows patching processes have made Swiss-cheese of their own OS speaks volumes for how trustworthy and secure they should be considered.
I really don’t know enough to judge Google on their own merits though. In truth, it may be that the only thing Google is better at than Microsoft is keeping its agenda private.
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Do you really think ChromeOS ships more personally identified data to Google than, say, Win10 (or even Win7, when fully updated) ships to Microsoft?Yes. Collecting and monetizing personally identified data is pretty much Google’s entire business model. Google is constantly giving away more and more cool stuff; and they don’t do it because they are nice people; they do it to collect data, so that they can make money from that data.
Monetizing people’s data is a small part of Microsoft’s business model; they make the bulk of their money on selling things straight-up. They’ll audit you to make sure you are paying; Google will never do that; Google will secretly make money off of you by monetizing whatever data they can collect from you.
Google scripts run literally EVERYWHERE; you hardly see Microsoft scripts running, except on their own websites.
All of that leads me to conclude that ChromeOS is shipping a lot more personally identified data to Google than all versions of Windows put together ship to Microsoft.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server5 users thanked author for this post.
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Google scripts run literally EVERYWHERE; you hardly see Microsoft scripts running, except on their own websites.
+1! More than most folks realize. Even this very site runs scripts loaded directly from Google and Amazon (but not Microsoft), not to mention loading data from several other sites that can use that info to track where your IP address (and thus you) get your online data from. Consider this: Site authors don’t – CAN’T – know what’s going to be in those scripts when they download to run on your computer.
The things a company could potentially monetize data for about people include more than just ad targeting. And if you imagine for a moment what could happen if they were to accidentally lose control of it… Nah, that’ll never happen, right?
Unfortunately, business models that bank on the ignorance of users in order to take things from them covertly – especially when that ignorance can be compounded by using more and more powerful machines to hide what’s really happening – don’t seem doomed to failure.
If you’re considering burying your head in the sand, think about this: If it has value to them after taking your data, what value is there to you in not allowing them to have it?
Here’s an idea to help you judge for yourself:
Find and invoke the “Developer > Network Monitor” entry (or similar name) in your web browser so that you can see at the bottom what web servers are being contacted to display your favorite web pages. It’s a bit tedious, but whenever you display a page online go through the list (of hundreds of requests typically) and look at the various domains. You’ll never think of web pages the same way.
And know this: There is NO reason a web site HAS to download software or data to your computer from other sites. I can say this with confidence because I have created a website myself that sells my commercial software, and I don’t run scripts from Google, et. al. nor show ads.
AI may ultimately hate humans not because of some inherent evil or lack of conscience, but because of all the predatory and garbage junkware we make the machines run. I imagine AI might observe that preying on others is a normal, natural thing for us meatbags.
-Noel
7 users thanked author for this post.
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Yes Noel, “we have met the enemy and he is us”. As always, you provide a sense of irony in your observations on the state of things.
2 users thanked author for this post.
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Find and invoke the “Developer > Network Monitor” entry (or similar name) in your web browser so that you can see at the bottom what web servers are being contacted to display your favorite web pages. It’s a bit tedious, but whenever you display a page online go through the list (of hundreds of requests typically) and look at the various domains.
I run NoScript with Firefox. At anytime I can click on the NoScript button in the upper right of the window, and it will show me every website that is trying to run scripts. I have blocked all Google scripts except for Google Maps.
I need to try the “Developer > Network Monitor” option.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server2 users thanked author for this post.
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Nowadays, probably about the same amount each but, the bigger question is:
Who do YOU trust more to have and store that data?
At least with MSFT you can tame the telemetry vole to an extent in W7/ W8.1 via system tweaks, firewall rules, GPE, etc..and all works as I/ we want it to, even off-line. Try doing that in ChromeOS!
W10 , however, in it’s current state is on collision course with electrical thunderstorms, hail and solar winds in the cloud.
EDIT: With ChromeOS AND W10 on the device, I’ll bet the first internal hardware failure will be the RED HOT WiFi card or Ethernet adaptor 😀
Windows - commercial by definition and now function...5 users thanked author for this post.
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Who do YOU trust more to have and store that data?I wouldn’t trust Google as far as I could throw the building I am in at this moment. They are ALL ABOUT collecting and monetizing my personal data. But that is not a huge part of Microsoft’s way of making money. Consequently, I always allow Microsoft scripts to run. And I use Bing Maps whenever possible, rather than Google maps.
Group "L" (Linux Mint)
with Windows 10 running in a remote session on my file server2 users thanked author for this post.
Was trying to find an answer without falling into ranting… hmm… so do I prefer the con-artist ripping me off in the street, or the burglar who sneaks into my house? Should I just have an open door policy since they are ripping people off everywhere?
Going to stop there…
Non-techy Win 10 Pro and Linux Mint experimenter
6 users thanked author for this post.
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It all boils down, for me at least, to the overall balance of risks and benefits: am I getting something off whatever it is to make it worthwhile, considering the costs and possible dangers involved?
Well, a burglar will come in, steal one’s valuables and then trash the place for good measure, just for the fun of it. A con man might not only make off with all of one’s savings, but depending on what he learns in the process, serve that with a juicy side of blackmail as well.
Google lets you came in and then might or might not rip off your most sacred information (SSN, present address, telephone number, your ex’s name, address and the various reasons she has to hate you, the middle name of your maternal grandfather, name of first pet, street number of the house you grew up in…), but at least you might get some interesting, perhaps useful, or even crucially important information, out of your visit. I’d rather get ripped off by Google than by Facebook. Instead of useful information, people mostly seem to get there a bunch of pretend friends and some trouble with their very personal photos. And Twitter: angry gasbags making up stories: people one wouldn’t have lunch with if they were treating.
Wait: was it “gas bags” or “gasbags”?… Well, I’d better google that, to find out for sure.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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Elly, you might feel embarrassed to want to rant, but the more you learn the more you realize what’s going on is just not right. Perhaps bending to cultural pressure to “just grin and bear it” isn’t really good after all.
To use a physical analogy…
Imagine that every moment you are out walking around in public you constantly have to slap vagrants’ hands away from reaching for your purse or wallet or jewelry. Sometimes the better dressed ones succeed in grabbing your valuables, house keys, copying your driver license, social security card, credit and ATM cards…
Would you go inside your house and lock your doors to feel safe? How safe would you feel knowing they have your keys? Would your budget for replacement locks grow? Would you hire body guards? What wouldn’t you be able to buy yourself to be able to pay their salaries?
The only thing that is likely to turn things around is a cultural change, which (as far as I can see) requires people to be educated – not shunned and quieted.
-Noel
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Yes, I’ve “cleaned up” folks’ systems on occasion.
Usually I do try to teach them what they can do to be safer and more responsible, and so far all have been receptive.
Personally, dyed-in-the-wool geek I may be, have no great love of having to “tread carefully”, so I do tend to try to set things up so that I and those around me are passively protected. For example, I have a blacklisting process set up that simply disallows resolution of DNS addresses for servers deemed to be “bad” by a dozen or so lists freely available on the Internet. I don’t have to think not to visit the malwareathome site, it just won’t work for any system under my purview. I don’t have to think about certain components being allowed to go online on their own, I have a firewall configuration watching the moat around the castle.
Self-managing anti-malware security and privacy packages are attractive though usually one can do a lot better than mainstream software, which often assumes the user is ignorant and incapable of improving his/her computer usage habits.
-Noel
2 users thanked author for this post.
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My two cents which is worth nothing. Data collection is the business model for probably any major website and search engine. Probably blame cookies for the start of it?
I had a discussion recently with someone who rallied about using anonymizers, vpn, and encryption. The bottom line is any packet of information that passes through a Cisco router in communication with Talos is tracked and the source can be determined. Whether it is encrypted or not can be dealt with later.
Why do you think all these cyber security revelations are occurring now in the news?
Red Ruffnsore
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Mr. Natural: ” The bottom line is any packet of information that passes through a Cisco router in communication with Talos is tracked and the source can be determined. Whether it is encrypted or not can be dealt with later. ”
Certainly, but here is the thing: no matter in how many ways our private lives can be made public whether we like it or not, there are always ways and means of making it harder for the would-be intruders to intrude.
When I was born, and all the way to the late 70’s, it was possible to get lost, disappear, be gone, fly under the radar (add your favorite cliché here). Example: have you become, and justly so perhaps, persona non grata in town A? Well, you could get lost there and re-emerge with a different name (and maybe some fake documents), in town B (even, but not necessarily, in the same country) and made a fresh start there. Of course, accidents of life, such as unexpected encounters with some one who knew you from your town A days, could blow your cover. And maybe could also make you victim of a little blackmail. But probably not.
Since those days, CCTV cameras everywhere, the Internet, DNA testing, “telemetry” on the Web and, to top it all: “why not bare-it-all-about-you-and-everyone-you know?” social networks and the “Cloud”, along with ever more powerful computers to integrate the data from it all, have been shrinking how much one is still able to get lost to an almost dimensionless point.
But that does not mean that, as long as there is a smidgen of privacy left for us in our over-connected world, we should give up defending it. Because, in defending our privacy — while remaining visible and within the law — we are also defending everybody else’s. “You have no privacy anymore, deal with it” is often said by some, with great conviction. Do not believe it: that is just the counsel of despair.
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV3 users thanked author for this post.
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@OscarCP: good comment. And to people who ask “why are you so ‘paranoid’, what do you have to hide?”, I always answer “when you go to the toilet you have nothing to hide, yet you close the door, you may even lock it. Certain things, certain data, are our own and we do not want to share it, that is our right. Period.”
1x Linux Mint 19.1 | 1x Linux antiX
7 users thanked author for this post.
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@OscarCP re: #210550 “When I was born, and all the way to the late 70’s, it was possible to get lost, disappear, be gone, fly under the radar (add your favorite cliché here).”
When I was born my state did not require births to be registered. I had no birth certificate till age 17.
1 user thanked author for this post.
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“New investigation by Associated Press shows how iPhone and Android users’
location data is still recorded even when they have been misled to believe it isn’t.”
What is the chance that Google is not doing the same to Chromebooks?1 user thanked author for this post.
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Here is an article from the BBC on this issue, explaining what this is about (and how very sneaky):
Ex-Windows user (Win. 98, XP, 7); since mid-2017 using also macOS. Presently on Monterey 12.15 & sometimes running also Linux (Mint).
MacBook Pro circa mid-2015, 15" display, with 16GB 1600 GHz DDR3 RAM, 1 TB SSD, a Haswell architecture Intel CPU with 4 Cores and 8 Threads model i7-4870HQ @ 2.50GHz.
Intel Iris Pro GPU with Built-in Bus, VRAM 1.5 GB, Display 2880 x 1800 Retina, 24-Bit color.
macOS Monterey; browsers: Waterfox "Current", Vivaldi and (now and then) Chrome; security apps. Intego AV1 user thanked author for this post.
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“…documentary which explains the very negative side of the Google Corporation” is not mine.
Link and signature was all I posted. I understand the Moderator might’ve felt a description of the link is desirable/necessary. I would’ve preferred “The Hidden Side Of Google” as a description.
To be fair, it should be remembered YouTube is a Google site and that they keep this story available.
I do not wish to offend,
greynad
1 user thanked author for this post.
Viewing 14 reply threads - This topic has 46 replies, 18 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 4 months ago by
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